New World Handicap System

[Newby]

 

> @"mark m" said:

 

> T = Tournament Score

> **Posting ‘T’ scores will no longer be an option. There will be a “memory of past performances” used in the calculation (if necessary)**

 

> Mark

 

There will be no such thing as Tournament (T) scores

 

 

[mark m]

In the US it will be 12 months' memory of your lowest index, not differentials. Two uses of this will be the Soft and Hard cap. The Soft Cap will suppress upward movement by 50% after a 3.0 stroke increase over the Low Handicap Index has been reached. The Hard Cap will restrict upward movement to 5.0 strokes over the Low Handicap Index. The Low Handicap Index is what has been achieved by a golfer within the last 12 months.

>

> The Exceptional Score Reduction will take into consideration all scores instead of just tournament scores. This procedure will come into play when a golfer's score differential is -7.0 strokes or better than his/her Handicap Index from when the round was played. The adjustment will be either -1.0 (for 7.0 to 9.9) or -2.0 (for 10 or more) adjustment to their previous 20 score differentials. This will be for all scores, not just tournament scores.

>

>

 

Thank you. I don't believe that will be enough to handle the determined banditos and they will likely make tweaks in year 2.

 

A proposal for the GHIN app:

 

Because T scores are going away, I would add another "stat" option to the GHIN app. For you CONGU guys, there are 8 current options when looking at a scoring record - your own scoring record or any person in the system that you add to your app as a "partner":

 

1. Handicap History (it shows the HI from the past year / last 24 revisions)

2. Scores - by course/tee

3. Scores - nine hole/combined

4. Scores - 20 most recent

5. Scores - 2019 (all scores - I currently have 46)

6. Scores - past 12 months

7. Scores - Revision (this is the record which shows the scores used to determine your current HI)

8. Scores - Tournament (It shows your most recent 20 T scores. It can go back a long way. For me I have 13 from this year and 7 from 2018. I have a guy from our gambling group who has T scores from 2013 in his record. He has had numerous health issues and hasn't been competing in tournaments the past couple of years.)

 

Again, because T scores are going away, I would add the following option:

 

**Best differentials - last 3 years**

 

Also, at the bottom of some of the options it shows totals. For instance, on the Tournament score option for my record, it shows:

Number of Scores: 20

High: 80

Low: 69

Avg: 74.2

 

I would rather have Average Differential than Average Score because this would be more useful for the HC and Tournament Committees.

I would show a max of 20 differentials (just like current T score option)

 

 

[larrybud]

How will the ESC of Net Double Bogey max work for players who don't yet have a handicap?

[Newby]

> @larrybud said:

> How will the ESC of Net Double Bogey max work for players who don't yet have a handicap?

 

Before a handicap Index has been established, the maximum score for each hole is par + 5.

 

If the player is not playing to establish a handicap index, the WHS is rather irrelevant.

[larrybud]

> > The first line is correct and as I understand it, means that a scratch player would get strokes if there is a difference between course rating and par.

> Straight from the USGA handicap manual for the current calculation, the only change for 2020 is the +(CR-Par). In your example, you are multiplying the HI x the results of dividing the slope rating by 113 because of the parentheses. That is wrong it has never been done that way. You multiply the HI x Slope and then divide the results by 113 then you add the result of CR-Par.

>

> Of course, it probably doesn't make any difference... I think the answer comes out the same.

 

Not necessarily the same, but pretty close. In Stableford comps it would have the most effect It's still applying the relative difference between the course rating of the two tee boxes.

 

 

[Augustok]

Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

[rogolf]

> @Augustok said:

> Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

 

That happens every day in Canada. I can play on Tuesday with x handicap and again on Friday with y handicap. It just works that way. Leagues and tournaments just have to specify what is gong to be done.

[Shilgy]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Augustok said:

> > Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

>

> That happens every day in Canada. I can play on Tuesday with x handicap and again on Friday with y handicap. It just works that way. Leagues and tournaments just have to specify what is gong to be done.

 

I would add...that happens twice a month today. We have two changes a month- the 1st and the 15th- so leagues already “deal” with the issue occasionally.

I would suggest they use the program the pro shop likely has that can spit out scorecards with handicaps OR on the GHIN app add the whole group to their “partners” and the can see the whole groups daily handicap.

[rogolf]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > > @Augustok said:

> > > Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

> >

> > That happens every day in Canada. I can play on Tuesday with x handicap and again on Friday with y handicap. It just works that way. Leagues and tournaments just have to specify what is gong to be done.

>

> I would add...that happens twice a month today. We have two changes a month- the 1st and the 15th- so leagues already “deal” with the issue occasionally.

> I would suggest they use the program the pro shop likely has that can spit out scorecards with handicaps OR on the GHIN app add the whole group to their “partners” and the can see the whole groups daily handicap.

 

I'm completely confused by the involvement of the "pro shop" in these decisions. At my club, it's volunteers (ie, members that may also competing) that form the Committee in charge of the competition. That Committee then determines how handicaps will be used during the competition - whether the handicap at time of entry will be used throughout or whether the handicap at the time of game will be applicable.

[Newby]

> @Augustok said:

> Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

 

With an 8/20 averaging system to 1 dec place, how often is an individual player's Index really going to change?

 

In the UK I believe they are in the process of providing an app that will be able to inform players of their "handicap index", "course handicap" and "playing handicap" for a competition they are signing in, in much the same way that they currently show "exact handicap" and "playing handicap" now.

[Newby]

> @rogolf said:

>

> whether the **handicap at time of entry will be used throughout** or whether the handicap at the time of game will be applicable.

 

So a player would have one handicap for the competition results and another for handicap adjustment purposes? Would this just apply for a particular multi round competition or for all rounds played over a period of time?

 

 

[Sawgrass]

> @Newby said:

> > @Augustok said:

> > Another potential issue about the new handicap change is will clubs actually use daily handicap revisions? How will leagues function having to check new handicaps every morning. Will clubs just freeze handicaps on a Monday for instance for the week? Some people actually play most days and there would be constant handicap changes.

>

> With an 8/20 averaging system to 1 dec place, how often is an individual player's Index really going to change?

>

> In the UK I believe they are in the process of providing an app that will be able to inform players of their "handicap index", "course handicap" and "playing handicap" for a competition they are signing in, in much the same way that they currently show "exact handicap" and "playing handicap" now.

 

We've had such an app in the US for years, and it's quite helpful. The people you customarily play with, and the courses/tees you frequently play, can be set up so that with a couple of touches of your smartphone you instantly see up-to-date indexes, course handicaps, and the number of strokes off the low handicap player that the remaining players get.

[rogolf]

> @Newby said:

> > @rogolf said:

> >

> > whether the **handicap at time of entry will be used throughout** or whether the handicap at the time of game will be applicable.

>

> So a player would have one handicap for the competition results and another for handicap adjustment purposes? Would this just apply for a particular multi round competition or for all rounds played over a period of time?

>

>

 

General practice is that for two, three or four day (days consecutive), the handicap at entry would be used throughout. For competitions such as season-long match play, the handicap on the day of the match would be used.

[Sawgrass]

The USGA website recently put up a great deal more detail on the new handicap system: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system--education-resources.html

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Sawgrass said:

> The USGA website recently put up a great deal more detail on the new handicap system: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system--education-resources.html

 

Excellent find. Thanks!

[mark m]

> @Sawgrass said:

> The USGA website recently put up a great deal more detail on the new handicap system: https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system--education-resources.html

 

Thanks for posting.

 

I noticed in Section 11 - Playing Handicaps - they show an example of a handicap allowance of 85% for fourball stroke play. (Current USGA recommended allowance = 90%)

 

Does anyone know if 85% will in fact be the new recommended allowance for this format?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Colin L]

Yes it is.

[Augustok]

I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

[DaveLeeNC]

> @Augustok said:

> I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

 

My reading of the USGA cartoons is that they did not define exactly what a NDB is. All they did was reference 'handicap strokes' with no mention of hole handicaps or the situation where you are not playing at 100% handicaps (or the competition makes no CR-Par adjustment) and your competition handicap is different than your Playing Handicap.

 

This all was pretty vague to me but was a huge improvement over the information that we had gotten previously.

 

dave

[GaHack1]

My take from the GSGA was they want everyone to post their own scores, hole by hole and let the system automatically adjust the NDB.

[Augster]

> @Augustok said:

> I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

 

I’m not sure what you are looking at....

 

When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

 

Real world example using the new system:

 

My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

 

Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Augster said:

> > @Augustok said:

> > I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

>

> I’m not sure what you are looking at....

>

> When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

>

> Real world example using the new system:

>

> My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

>

> Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

>

 

I think we all know how it is supposed to work, but the cartoon poster doesn't show it that way.

[Sawgrass]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Augster said:

> > > @Augustok said:

> > > I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

> >

> > I’m not sure what you are looking at....

> >

> > When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

> >

> > Real world example using the new system:

> >

> > My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

> >

> > Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

> >

>

> I think we all know how it is supposed to work, but the cartoon poster doesn't show it that way.

 

I think it does, but doesn’t clearly enough show the math. If you do the math, it works.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @Augster said:

> > > > @Augustok said:

> > > > I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

> > >

> > > I’m not sure what you are looking at....

> > >

> > > When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

> > >

> > > Real world example using the new system:

> > >

> > > My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

> > >

> > > Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

> > >

> >

> > I think we all know how it is supposed to work, but the cartoon poster doesn't show it that way.

>

> I think it does, but doesn’t clearly enough show the math. If you do the math, it works.

 

The poster shows a 15.6 index taking an 8 on a random par 5 with no mention of course handicap or handicap holes. There is no math to do. The poster is incomplete at best.

[Augster]

Aha. Now I see the poster. Why would they do that? It takes a lot of “reading between the lines”.

 

A 15.6 is going to be a CH of 15 on tees sloped at 106-112, a 16 on slope 113-119, a 17 on slope 120-126 and 18 at 127 and above.

 

Since MOST courses have par 5’s hole handicaps of 10 or less (and certainly less than 15) a 15.6 is “always” going to have a max score of 8 (NDB) on par 5’s.

 

It’s more of a “rule of thumb”, but that graphic could be a LOT better. Just have the 15.6 use his CH of 17 for the round. If the reader wants to find out how to compute the CH, there’s a poster for that. :)

 

 

[Colin L]

I hope this is relevant. The player's full, unrestricted Course Handicap is used for net double bogey adjustment. For this purpose, the Course Handicap is rounded up or down to the nearest whole number.

 

Any handicap allowance restriction or strokes received (e.g. in mixed tee competitions) are used only for the purposes of the competition.

[Sawgrass]

> @"Colin L" said:

> I hope this is relevant. The player's full, unrestricted Course Handicap is used for net double bogey adjustment. For this purpose, the Course Handicap is rounded up or down to the nearest whole number.

>

> Any handicap allowance restriction or strokes received (e.g. in mixed tee competitions) are used only for the purposes of the competition.

 

Mixed tee competitions no longer get an additional adjustment, as the previous differential in rating adjustment is replaced with the new delta between par and rating in EVERYONE'S handicap.

[Sawgrass]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > @Augustok said:

> > > > > I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

> > > >

> > > > I’m not sure what you are looking at....

> > > >

> > > > When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

> > > >

> > > > Real world example using the new system:

> > > >

> > > > My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

> > > >

> > > > Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think we all know how it is supposed to work, but the cartoon poster doesn't show it that way.

> >

> > I think it does, but doesn’t clearly enough show the math. If you do the math, it works.

>

> The poster shows a 15.6 index taking an 8 on a random par 5 with no mention of course handicap or handicap holes. There is no math to do. The poster is incomplete at best.

 

There's a "Calculation of Course and Playing Handicap" poster which shows a 15.3 index, 119 slope, 72.0 rating, 71 par and 15 course handicap. The math works.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/handicapping/education-posters/WHS_Playing_Handicap_Poster.jpg

[DaveLeeNC]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > I hope this is relevant. The player's full, unrestricted Course Handicap is used for net double bogey adjustment. For this purpose, the Course Handicap is rounded up or down to the nearest whole number.

> >

> > Any handicap allowance restriction or strokes received (e.g. in mixed tee competitions) are used only for the purposes of the competition.

>

> Mixed tee competitions no longer get an additional adjustment, as the previous differential in rating adjustment is replaced with the new delta between par and rating in EVERYONE'S handicap.

 

Not only that, but now when someone says that Jim Sandbagger shot a net 7 under par, you will actually know what that means!

 

dave

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > > @Augster said:

> > > > > > @Augustok said:

> > > > > > I just looked at the posters from the USGA site link from above and they are showing Net Double Maximum score based on index numbers not course handicap. That can’t be.

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m not sure what you are looking at....

> > > > >

> > > > > When you decide what tees you’ll play, you then get a CH for that day, for those tees. It is that number, the CH, that will determine when you can take a triple or worse for handicap purposes. Just compare the CH to the hole handicap and if you get a stroke, you can post a triple for that hole.

> > > > >

> > > > > Real world example using the new system:

> > > > >

> > > > > My index is 6.7. The CR/slope of the tees I played today is 69.1/122. This calculation gives me a 7 CH NOW. In 2020, I’ll be a 5 because it’s a par 71. (69.1-71=-1.9 rounded to -2). So 7-2= 5 CH

> > > > >

> > > > > Since I’m a 5, I can take up to a triple bogey for hole handicaps 1-5, and only up to a double for hole handicaps 6-18.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think we all know how it is supposed to work, but the cartoon poster doesn't show it that way.

> > >

> > > I think it does, but doesn’t clearly enough show the math. If you do the math, it works.

> >

> > The poster shows a 15.6 index taking an 8 on a random par 5 with no mention of course handicap or handicap holes. There is no math to do. The poster is incomplete at best.

>

> There's a "Calculation of Course and Playing Handicap" poster which shows a 15.3 index, 119 slope, 72.0 rating, 71 par and 15 course handicap. The math works.

>

> https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/handicapping/education-posters/WHS_Playing_Handicap_Poster.jpg

 

You are looking at the wrong poster. See https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/handicapping/education-posters/WHS_Net_Double_Bogey_Poster.jpg

The current discussion is about NDB computation per @Augustok post above.