New World Handicap System

[Colin L]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> So does this mean that if I play a game in Spain or the USA against a local, their app will be calculating their course handicap including cr-par and my CONGU app will not? Then we will have to decide which system to use in deciding the number of shots given or received?

 

I can't answer what a particular app will do, but rather obviously your Course Handicaps have to be calculated using the same formula, and that would be the one used by the Authorised Association in whose jurisdiction you are playing, would it not?

[Deceptively Short]

So I would need to have a different app for each jurisdiction? Also, when I am playing in Spain on a golf trip with just CONGU players (as many of us frequently do) our course handicaps would be calculated differently from the trips the same bunch do in the UK?

[Newby]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> So does this mean that if I play a game in Spain or the USA against a local, their app will be calculating their course handicap including cr-par and my CONGU app will not? Then we will have to decide which system to use in deciding the number of shots given or received?

 

For the app to be able to identify the CR, par and slope etc it will need to know where you are. If it knows where you are it will know which Authorised Association area you are in and will choose the appropriate formula.

Or at least I assume that is how it will work.

[rogolf]

The formulae are quite clear and can easily be used with a simple calculator (available on all smartphones) to determine course handicap.

[Deceptively Short]

Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

[Shilgy]

My answer to that question is that you already have a different course handicap at each course. And based on the course you may give a friend one stroke at one course and two on another.

Is CONGU the only region admin using a different system starting next year?

[Newby]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

 

I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

 

'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

[Halebopp]

> @Newby said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

>

> I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

>

> 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

 

Now I'm truly puzzled. As far as I know, CONGU is going with CH = HI * Slope/113, the USGA and Australia move to HI * Slope/113 + (CR - Par) and I would be very surprised if the EGA were to move away from it as that's what we've been using for years.

 

 

[rogolf]

For Newby, from the USGA site -

 

[Mr. Bean]

The final version of EGA manual of 'WHS' came out yesterday. I assume it will be released on EGA and R&A websites in a couple of days.

[Pepperturbo]

> @Newby said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > > @Newby said:

> > > > @antip said:

> > >

> > > Incidentally, does anyone know what all these blank advertisements from GolfWRX are all about?

> >

> > I'm not getting blank ones. There's a small ad over to the right of the screen

>

> This is what I'm getting

>

> https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/editor/2o/b8en1orpf16s.png

>

 

I am getting the same. Except for the Golfwrx logo on the left and says advertisement at the top, it's a blank post.

[Deceptively Short]

> @Newby said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

>

> I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

>

> 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

 

I believe CONGU will be the only jurisdiction calculating Course Handicap as you describe, they will be out of step immediately with the new ‘worldwide’ system of course handicap calculation which includes cr-par. Seems a strange misstep for no apparent gain.

[rogolf]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

> >

> > I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

> >

> > 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

>

> I believe CONGU will be the only jurisdiction calculating Course Handicap as you describe, they will be out of step immediately with the new ‘worldwide’ system of course handicap calculation which includes cr-par. Seems a strange misstep for no apparent gain.

 

Maybe they just want to stand out as "different"?

[Deceptively Short]

> @rogolf said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > @Newby said:

> > > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

> > >

> > > I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

> > >

> > > 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

> >

> > I believe CONGU will be the only jurisdiction calculating Course Handicap as you describe, they will be out of step immediately with the new ‘worldwide’ system of course handicap calculation which includes cr-par. Seems a strange misstep for no apparent gain.

>

> Maybe they just want to stand out as "different"?

 

I understand their rationale behind acceptable scoring formats as this is deeply embedded in the golfing culture here, but at the moment we never have to calculate a course handicap. Every time I play golf on whatever course I always get 6 shots, it’s quite simple, however in future the number of shots I get will change tee to tee, course to course - this is quite a change so it wouldn’t be any more different or a bigger change for me to have the cr-par calculation included which would bring us in line.

[Roadking2003]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

 

Exactly! Not only is the WHS a solution looking for a problem, but it also will not be a single WHS at least for several years.

[Colin L]

We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

[Newby]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

>

> Exactly! Not only is the WHS a solution looking for a problem, but it also will not be a single WHS at least for several years.

 

Didn't you say this only the other day

[Newby]

> @"Colin L" said:

> We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

 

[Colin L]

> @Newby said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

>

 

Was informed of this as a change at a meeting just today. I took it that this was a CONGU decision and my notes don't say it is just Scotland but I'll need to check.

 

[Edit: email sent]

[rogolf]

> @Newby said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

>

 

Is CONGU one system or is it differential by "national" golf association, a subset of a subset of WHS? :)

[Augster]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > > > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

> > > >

> > > > I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

> > > >

> > > > 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

> > >

> > > I believe CONGU will be the only jurisdiction calculating Course Handicap as you describe, they will be out of step immediately with the new ‘worldwide’ system of course handicap calculation which includes cr-par. Seems a strange misstep for no apparent gain.

> >

> > Maybe they just want to stand out as "different"?

>

> I understand their rationale behind acceptable scoring formats as this is deeply embedded in the golfing culture here, but at the moment we never have to calculate a course handicap. Every time I play golf on whatever course I always get 6 shots, it’s quite simple, however in future the number of shots I get will change tee to tee, course to course - this is quite a change so it wouldn’t be any more different or a bigger change for me to have the cr-par calculation included which would bring us in line.

 

Coming from the USGA system, “I always get 6 shots” is just crazy talk to me. The higher the slope, the more shots I need (and get), AND the less likely I am to shoot my cap. The higher the slope, the less and less likely it is I’m going to break 90, and I’m a 6 most of the time.

 

I need the shots. :)

 

 

[Colin L]

> @"Colin L" said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> > Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> > CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

> >

>

> Was informed of this as a change at a meeting just today. I took it that this was a CONGU decision and my notes don't say it is just Scotland but I'll need to check.

>

> [Edit: email sent]

 

I've now got confirmation it will be used in all CONGU countries.

 

 

[Newby]

> @"Colin L" said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > > @Newby said:

> > > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> > > Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> > > CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

> > >

> >

> > Was informed of this as a change at a meeting just today. I took it that this was a CONGU decision and my notes don't say it is just Scotland but I'll need to check.

> >

> > [Edit: email sent]

>

> I've now got confirmation it will be used in all CONGU countries.

>

>

 

Thanks. Just received new revised powerpoint presentation we are doing. Haven't gone through it yet. Perhaps it's in there

 

(Edir: no email received as yet)

[Colin L]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> > Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> > CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

> >

>

> Is CONGU one system or is it differential by "national" golf association, a subset of a subset of WHS? :)

 

 

CONGU is the _Council of National Golf Unions_. comprising the governing bodies of golf in England, Ireland (Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland as one), Scotland, and Wales from which we get our current Unified Handicap System. The system is what it says, unified, but it does allow for a few variations by constituent countries. For example, everyone else is out of step with Scotland in allowing Exceptional Score Reductions.

 

I think it is CONGU which is licensed by the R&A/USGA to administer handicapping but given its federal nature, the various options in the WHS available to authorised associations had to be reached by agreement amongst the countries. The only difference I'm aware of is that match play and four ball scores will be acceptable in Ireland but not in any of the other 3 countries. (Wales previously intended to accept them but changed its mind and will not be.)

 

If I've misunderstood anything, Newby will no doubt be able to correct it.

[Colin L]

Deleted

[Newby]

> @rogolf said:

> > @Newby said:

> > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > We'e already been around the houses on this one. I'm sure I said somewhere back in this thread that WHS research showed that the differences in Handicap Indices between an authority using CR-Par and one not using it are not significant. But just to add the to the general fun, CONGU will be using CR-Par to calculate 9 hole Course Handicaps..

> > Is that Scotland? My England copy says:

> > CH = (HI / 2) * (9 hole SR / 113)

> >

>

> Is CONGU one system or is it differential by "national" golf association, a subset of a subset of WHS? :)

 

CONGU is an affiliation of the national unions of England, Ireland, Scotland & Wales. It goes back to 1960 in its current form.

The system is the same for all countries but there are a few minor local variances in its operation.

[Colin L]

> @Augster said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > @rogolf said:

> > > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > > > @Newby said:

> > > > > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > > > > Seems strange to have different calculations of course handicap according to jurisdiction, as this is a new thing to CONGU land it seems a simple thing to have homogenised early in the process, the basis of calculating course is not part of our golfing culture now as for example is ‘acceptable scoring formats’. Just another difference to explain when visiting another country/jurisdiction which seems contrary to the concept of a worldwide system.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am puzzled. The course handicap will be the same worldwide. CH = HI * (SR / 113)

> > > > >

> > > > > 'Acceptable scoring formats' will accord with the clause permitting the individual authorities to allow for national traditions. Ultimately, over time it is hoped they will become more universal. There are minor variations in CONGU for each county at present.

> > > >

> > > > I believe CONGU will be the only jurisdiction calculating Course Handicap as you describe, they will be out of step immediately with the new ‘worldwide’ system of course handicap calculation which includes cr-par. Seems a strange misstep for no apparent gain.

> > >

> > > Maybe they just want to stand out as "different"?

> >

> > I understand their rationale behind acceptable scoring formats as this is deeply embedded in the golfing culture here, but at the moment we never have to calculate a course handicap. Every time I play golf on whatever course I always get 6 shots, it’s quite simple, however in future the number of shots I get will change tee to tee, course to course - this is quite a change so it wouldn’t be any more different or a bigger change for me to have the cr-par calculation included which would bring us in line.

>

> Coming from the USGA system, “I always get 6 shots” is just crazy talk to me. The higher the slope, the more shots I need (and get), AND the less likely I am to shoot my cap. The higher the slope, the less and less likely it is I’m going to break 90, and I’m a 6 most of the time.

>

> I need the shots. :)

>

>

 

Which is one of the reasons why I am looking forward to changing to a slope based system!

[denkea]

> @rogolf said:

> For Newby, from the USGA site -

>

>

 

 

"Rule Change for 2020: A Course Handicap will represent the number of strokes a player receives in relation to the Par of the tees being played. The formula will include a Course Rating minus Par adjustment:

Course Handicap = Handicap Index × (Slope Rating ÷ 113) + (Course Rating – Par)"

 

The above was copied and pasted from the USGA pdf for the World Handicap System. Can someone enlighten me as to the 90% handicap allowance referred to in the above??? I don't see where it is in the USGA manual. Or if it even is.

 

[Newby]

> @denkea said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > For Newby, from the USGA site -

> >

> >

>

>

> "Rule Change for 2020: A Course Handicap will represent the number of strokes a player receives in relation to the Par of the tees being played. The formula will include a Course Rating minus Par adjustment:

> Course Handicap = Handicap Index × (Slope Rating ÷ 113) + (Course Rating – Par)"

>

> The above was copied and pasted from the USGA pdf for the World Handicap System. Can someone enlighten me as to the 90% handicap allowance referred to in the above??? I don't see where it is in the USGA manual. Or if it even is.

>

 

Do you mean the current USGA Manual or the draft for the introduction of the WHS?

[Sawgrass]

> @denkea said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > For Newby, from the USGA site -

> >

> >

>

>

> "Rule Change for 2020: A Course Handicap will represent the number of strokes a player receives in relation to the Par of the tees being played. The formula will include a Course Rating minus Par adjustment:

> Course Handicap = Handicap Index × (Slope Rating ÷ 113) + (Course Rating – Par)"

>

> The above was copied and pasted from the USGA pdf for the World Handicap System. Can someone enlighten me as to the 90% handicap allowance referred to in the above??? I don't see where it is in the USGA manual. Or if it even is.

>

 

It’s just an example of the option a tournament committee has to reduce handicaps, such as in a wide-field stroke play tournament.