Handicap to play blades?

[MelloYello]

> @balls_deep said:

>

> I don’t think you give up an ounce with Snell honestly. That said, the Srixon Z and XV are fantastic and can usually be found at a great discount. Have you ever tried them?

 

I have not ever actually bought anything Srixon, lol.

 

I think next year I'll try and get into routinely playing new balls though, whatever they end up being.

 

[Tree Levino]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> >

> > I don’t think you give up an ounce with Snell honestly. That said, the Srixon Z and XV are fantastic and can usually be found at a great discount. Have you ever tried them?

>

> I have not ever actually bought anything Srixon, lol.

>

> I think next year I'll try and get into routinely playing new balls though, whatever they end up being.

>

 

They're sneaky good. Well worth a go. I prefer the Z star for the feel off the putter and greenside spin. Both a good balls. TXG uses the XV in all of their fittings.

[NRJyzr]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> >

> > I don’t think you give up an ounce with Snell honestly. That said, the Srixon Z and XV are fantastic and can usually be found at a great discount. Have you ever tried them?

>

> I have not ever actually bought anything Srixon, lol.

>

> I think next year I'll try and get into routinely playing new balls though, whatever they end up being.

>

 

You should really give Srixons a healthy shot, regardless of whether you look at ZStar or the XV. Really excellent product.

 

Amusingly, bought a friend a box of ZStars for his birthday several years ago. He scored better while he worked his way thru the dozen than he did with his regular ball. After that, his girlfriend had bought him a couple dozen of what he'd used previously, and his scores went back up.

 

Anecdotal as he1l, and sample size warnings abound, but I found it interesting. LOL

 

I still give him crap about not sticking with them.

[Pepperturbo]

> @mschantz said:

> > @jamieholo said:

> > personal opinion here.. not necessarily a handicap but more so ball striking ability. i think you have to look at it another way.. how many times a round does playing not a blade HURT you. if those are the conversations you are having you are ready to play a blade and BENEFIT from it. how often do you have to shape a ball around a tree to get you 50 yards closer to the hole or on the green to save you a stroke. and do you have the ability to hit that shot. how often do you hit a pure 6 iron out of the rough that knuckles and flies the green 20 yards. again do you have that shot. how often are you pinched under a tree and have to a stinger 180 yards up the fairway that you can't keep down because you are hitting a more forgiving club. notice the pattern.. do you have that shot. are you hitting the ball pure enough every time to notice that you hit the ball half a dime high, the ball finds the 'hot spot' and knuckles and flies the green and hurts you. do you hit the ball straight enough that you would rather leave the ball 10 yards short of the green but closer to the line of target over a ball thats pin high but 10 yards wayward. and ill admit that a CB to an MB probably isn't noticeably different to an amateur trying to hit SHOTS.

> > other option. do you like the look? are you happy enough with where the ball ends up for the swing you think you made? if the answer is yes. HIT EM!

>

> Let me add to this. **All of the shots you mentioned can be made by both types of the clubs in the hands of good players, but many of them are very low percentage shots for even the best players. **I never take low percentage shots because in my case they usually worsen the problem and end up costing more strokes than putting the ball back in play with a high percentage shot. If you're a pro trying to earn a living, it's a different calculation.

>

> I totally get your point. I benefit from blades because I make better golf shots and score better with them. It's that simple. I probably make better golf shots with them because learning to hit them improved my game quite a bit. There's no mystery there. But for me it took LOT of work that needs constant reinforcement.

 

The same can be said for cars and track experienced drivers. All cars get the driver from point A to B and a good driver can drive both. However, someone that wants to be a skilled driver will choose the vehicle that's designed for high-speed track driving and drifting. > @MtlJeff said:

> > @Ger21 said:

> > > @Bubbtubbs said:

> > > I'd say my only personal requirement would be that of you can't properly hit and elevate a bladed 3 iron, you probably shouldn't be playing blades.

> > >

> > > But I'm an **** and you shouldn't listen to me. Play what you want to!

> >

> > Most sets don't even come with 3 irons any more.

> > The average player can't hit and elevate ANY 3 iron, so does that mean they shouldn't golf?

>

> "3" iron is just a number. My "4" iron is 21 degrees which is the same loft as my Ping Eye2 3 iron from 1987. A lot of people still have 4 irons in their bag

>

> But i would agree with you that most players have trouble launching a 19-23 degree iron.

>

> I don't do it particularly well and i am a 0 index. I could not play a blade 3-4 iron. I do launch my G410 4 iron pretty nicely though.

>

> If you want to play a full blade, i'd definitely spend a lot of time with the lower lofted clubs and make sure you can at least somewhat hit them

 

They only just became numbers when OEM's started making stronger lofted heads, prior, each number meant something. :) Food for thought, my brand spanking new set of 620CB/MBs come with 3i at 21* and I can elevate it and 17* 2i even at my age. Four "4" irons are easy to me, course due to spin I don't need to hit skyballs to stop that ball on a green. I landed a perr-tee 3 iron yesterday. LOL But agree, most golfers including many of my friends have difficulty getting the ball up with long irons. One friend lives and dies with max 5 iron and hybrids and woods. Being from the old "1" iron school and learning with MB's, all my sets have 2 and 3 irons. Also, agree with your statement about lower lofted clubs... LOTs of practice.

[NRJyzr]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> They only just became numbers when OEM's started making stronger lofted heads, prior, each number meant something. :)

 

 

That happened a lot longer ago than people realize. There was a jump from the 30s to the 50s, not sure how gradually it was done. Once we got there, with the 17* 1 iron, it was mostly static over 30-40 years, except for a bit of creep in the short and mid irons, until the 2 iron replaced the 1 iron.

 

And so on.

 

It's all stupid. And it's all about selling clubs.

 

Speaking topically to the tangent.... I picked up a 2 iron to go with my MP37 set, but went with a Mizuno Pro. Largely because the only MP37 2 iron I could find was close to $100, and I'd only spent just over $200 on the entire set (and I'm cheap, LOL).

 

Need to get it L&L adjusted for next season....

[Pepperturbo]

> @NRJyzr said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > They only just became numbers when OEM's started making stronger lofted heads, prior, each number meant something. :)

>

>

> That happened a lot longer ago than people realize. There was a jump from the 30s to the 50s, not sure how gradually it was done. Once we got there, with the 17* 1 iron, it was mostly static over 30-40 years, except for a bit of creep in the short and mid irons, until the 2 iron replaced the 1 iron.

>

> And so on.

>

> It's all stupid. And **it's all about selling clubs**.

>

> Speaking topically to the tangent.... I picked up a 2 iron to go with my MP37 set, but went with a Mizuno Pro. Largely because the only MP37 2 iron I could find was close to $100, and I'd only spent just over $200 on the entire set (and I'm cheap, LOL).

>

> Need to get it L&L adjusted for next season....

 

You got the bold right.

 

A relative played on the PGA in the '50s-'60s. There wasn't much on the OEM's part, but tour guys adjusted lofts stronger and weaker. CAD hit OEM's sometime in the late 80s but didn't take hold quickly due to costs. I took up golf at 40yr old (damn, that was 30yrs ago, wow) the number on the sole still meant something. That's when most PWs were 48* with a few at the older 50* loft. Seems as though the big push with game improvement with many OEMs was around 2007.

 

In 2003 I had Titleist 670MBs which were 48*-19* 2-iron,; then late 2005 Titleist 735.CM was 47*-18* 2 iron, then in 2006 I switched to Callaway's original X-Forged 47*-18* 2 iron (played from 2006-2014) and Callaway introduced their 2nd iteration of X-Forged around 2007 with more forgiving specs and stronger lofts then 2008 they redesigned X-Forged to be more of a game-improvement club, the rest is history, as they say.

[NRJyzr]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @NRJyzr said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > They only just became numbers when OEM's started making stronger lofted heads, prior, each number meant something. :)

> >

> >

> > That happened a lot longer ago than people realize. There was a jump from the 30s to the 50s, not sure how gradually it was done. Once we got there, with the 17* 1 iron, it was mostly static over 30-40 years, except for a bit of creep in the short and mid irons, until the 2 iron replaced the 1 iron.

> >

> > And so on.

> >

> > It's all stupid. And **it's all about selling clubs**.

> >

> > Speaking topically to the tangent.... I picked up a 2 iron to go with my MP37 set, but went with a Mizuno Pro. Largely because the only MP37 2 iron I could find was close to $100, and I'd only spent just over $200 on the entire set (and I'm cheap, LOL).

> >

> > Need to get it L&L adjusted for next season....

>

> You got the bold right.

>

> A relative played on the PGA in the '50s-'60s. There wasn't much on the OEM's part, but tour guys adjusted lofts stronger and weaker. CAD hit OEM's sometime in the late 80s but didn't take hold quickly due to costs. I took up golf at 40yr old (****, that was 30yrs ago, wow) the number on the sole still meant something. That's when most PWs were 48* with a few at the older 50* loft. Seems as though the big push with game improvement with many OEMs was around 2007.

>

> In 2003 I had Titleist 670MBs which were 48*-19* 2-iron,; then late 2005 Titleist 735.CM was 47*-18* 2 iron, then in 2006 I switched to Callaway's original X-Forged 47*-18* 2 iron (played from 2006-2014) and Callaway introduced their 2nd iteration of X-Forged around 2007 with more forgiving specs and stronger lofts then 2008 they redesigned X-Forged to be more of a game-improvement club, the rest is history, as they say.

 

 

Adding to the loft amusement factor, when you took up the game 30 years ago, Palmer Golf was selling an iron set, the Original Standards (or Standard Originals, depending on with whom you spoke), which had an 18° 1 iron, and 51° PW. While Mizuno was selling the MS-9, which had an 18° 2 iron and 47° PW.

 

Funny

[Nard_S]

There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

 

I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

 

[MelloYello]

> @Nard_S said:

> There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

>

> I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

>

 

Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

 

I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

 

This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

 

So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

[Tree Levino]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> >

> > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> >

>

> Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

>

> I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

>

> This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

>

> So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

 

Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

[MelloYello]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > >

> > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > >

> >

> > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> >

> > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> >

> > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> >

> > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

>

> Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

 

Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

 

I'm flirting with a hybrid now in place of my 4-iron but honestly I don't know if it's better to have the more forgiving hybrid for one shot a round. We all know how that can turn out. Sometimes it's better to take the less forgiving 4-iron and make the same swing you would with your mid-irons knowing the margin is slim but that you won't blast it excessively left or right either.

 

But I'll be the first to say that if I was hitting long irons on a regular basis, I'd have a bag full of hybrids. I don't doubt that for a second. But the idea of inventing a new club for one or two shots a round is dangerous. It's the same reason I don't carry driving irons anymore. They're cool here and there but in reality, a normal iron (or better yet a 5w) usually accomplishes the exact same goal.

[Tree Levino]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > >

> > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > >

> > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > >

> > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > >

> > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> >

> > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

>

> Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

>

> I'm flirting with a hybrid now in place of my 4-iron but honestly I don't know if it's better to have the more forgiving hybrid for one shot a round. We all know how that can turn out. Sometimes it's better to take the less forgiving 4-iron and make the same swing you would with your mid-irons knowing the margin is slim but that you won't blast it excessively left or right either.

>

> But I'll be the first to say that if I was hitting long irons on a regular basis, I'd have a bag full of hybrids. I don't doubt that for a second. But the idea of inventing a new club for one or two shots a round is dangerous. It's the same reason I don't carry driving irons anymore. They're cool here and there but in reality, a normal iron (or better yet a 5w) usually accomplishes the exact same goal.

 

I basically think you should transition into hybrid when (1) you can’t get the height needed to stop the ball fast or (2) your lack of height/strike inconsistency is meaning your gaps are getting too close. For me, I’ve found that with my present swing I can get more distance out of 4 vs 5 and I can stop it no problem so I go to a 19* hybrid. I find I can be more accurate with irons as well. I didn’t love the 23* hybrid for some reason it seemed to spin too much.

[NRJyzr]

> @Nard_S said:

> ...but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

>

 

 

Along these lines, in my early years playing golf, I practiced at a couple domes over the winter months. I've largely always been a fairly high trajectory player, the dome nearest me caused issues due to its height. I could really only hit long irons, maybe get down to the 5 iron. As such, I practiced a lot with those. And got fairly good with them.

 

The cost was the obvious progression that comes from a lack of practice with short irons. For years, I found myself more able to hit greens with long irons than with short irons (a friend's description I have to admit was largely true).

 

Fortunately that's not true any longer. LOL

[MelloYello]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > > >

> > > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > > >

> > > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > > >

> > > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> > >

> > > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

> >

> > Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

> >

> > I'm flirting with a hybrid now in place of my 4-iron but honestly I don't know if it's better to have the more forgiving hybrid for one shot a round. We all know how that can turn out. Sometimes it's better to take the less forgiving 4-iron and make the same swing you would with your mid-irons knowing the margin is slim but that you won't blast it excessively left or right either.

> >

> > But I'll be the first to say that if I was hitting long irons on a regular basis, I'd have a bag full of hybrids. I don't doubt that for a second. But the idea of inventing a new club for one or two shots a round is dangerous. It's the same reason I don't carry driving irons anymore. They're cool here and there but in reality, a normal iron (or better yet a 5w) usually accomplishes the exact same goal.

>

> I basically think you should transition into hybrid when (1) you can’t get the height needed to stop the ball fast or (2) your lack of height/strike inconsistency is meaning your gaps are getting too close. For me, I’ve found that with my present swing I can get more distance out of 4 vs 5 and I can stop it no problem so I go to a 19* hybrid. I find I can be more accurate with irons as well. I didn’t love the 23* hybrid for some reason it seemed to spin too much.

 

Yeah, hybrids are fantastic at leaving you pin high and helping to expand distance gaps. No doubt they are a power-oriented tool. Any time you lighten up the shaft, increase the springy-ness of the face and lengthen a club you're doing those things to add pop. So the challenge with a hybrid becomes controlling it. And that's where I sometimes struggle.

 

I like fairway metals so I have no issue carrying a 5w. Sticking a hybrid in there between that and my irons is a gamble though. It's different from what's on either side of it. Hard to risk that sort of uncertainty for a little advantage on 1-2 shots here and there.

 

Still, I'm always shocked at what you can get out of a hybrid when you make what feels like a 3/4 swing. I almost think that's the trick. Hit the hybrid like you would a 9-iron and just let the club do all the work.

[pinestreetgolf]

I disagree with these posts. The handicap required for blades is either a normal handicap of 5 or a handicap of 10:BMSGHMB*.

 

*But my short game holds me back.

[MelloYello]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> I disagree with these posts. The handicap required for blades is either a normal handicap of 5 or a handicap of 10:BMSGHMB*.

>

> *But my short game holds me back.

 

Hahaha.

 

Yeah, that excuse is hilarious. Like, yeah, you are an awesome iron player who just happens to miss 10 GIR per round and despite your love of golf and your immense dedication to swing mechanics and technique you just can't manage to learn how to hit a proper chip shot.

 

 

Maybe we can get an ANGC Drive, Chip and Putt thing going for these guys. First, they can demonstrate how they bomb it 290-yds down the middle. Then they can hit a towering draw with their blade 4-iron to a tucked pin. Then they can argue about who's more apt to miss the green from 150-yds, chunk the chip shot and 3-putt from 15-ft.

 

That's a program I would watch. It would certainly make me feel better about myself. :)

[NRJyzr]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> I disagree with these posts. The handicap required for blades is either a normal handicap of 5 or a handicap of 10:BMSGHMB*.

>

> *But my short game holds me back.

 

 

I would have thought your dalliance with the single length world would have opened your mind a bit more to possibilities and variability. :)

[pinestreetgolf]

> @NRJyzr said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > I disagree with these posts. The handicap required for blades is either a normal handicap of 5 or a handicap of 10:BMSGHMB*.

> >

> > *But my short game holds me back.

>

>

> I would have thought your dalliance with the single length world would have opened your mind a bit more to possibilities and variability. :)

 

It did, I was just kidding. I was more making fun of these threads than the BMSGHMB players, being a BMDHMB* myself.

 

*:But My Driver Holds Me Back

[NRJyzr]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @NRJyzr said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > I disagree with these posts. The handicap required for blades is either a normal handicap of 5 or a handicap of 10:BMSGHMB*.

> > >

> > > *But my short game holds me back.

> >

> >

> > I would have thought your dalliance with the single length world would have opened your mind a bit more to possibilities and variability. :)

>

> It did, I was just kidding. I was more making fun of these threads than the BMSGHMB players, being a BMDHMB* myself.

>

> *:But My Driver Holds Me Back

 

 

I can identify with "my driver holds me back." As well as "my putter holds me back." My personal best score came during a round where I missed a half dozen putts from 5-6 feet. You hit it that close that often.... yeah. Yay me. LOL

[bodhi555]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > >

> > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > >

> > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > >

> > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > >

> > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> >

> > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

>

> Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

>

>

 

Can't say I entirely agree with this - in a typical round I can reach for the 4 iron 3 or 4 times a round playing into a green. Round here, it appears the local courses architects could win a kitchen if they designed the highest number of narrow 450 yard ish Par 4's into their designs, as the courses I play are full of them. One course I play all the time has 2 of them, which isn't much until you realise it's a 9 hole course :smile:

 

Anyway for these leaving yourself with 200 - 210 yards into the green isn't uncommon after a 3 wood or Hybrid to find the fairway, which is right around a 4 iron for me. Add in a few shorter par 5's, and you'll see why my 4 iron is a regular feature of range sessions.

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @bodhi555 said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > > >

> > > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > > >

> > > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > > >

> > > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> > >

> > > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

> >

> > Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

> >

> >

>

> Can't say I entirely agree with this - in a typical round I can reach for the 4 iron 3 or 4 times a round playing into a green. Round here, it appears the local courses architects could win a kitchen if they designed the highest number of narrow 450 yard ish Par 4's into their designs, as the courses I play are full of them. One course I play all the time has 2 of them, which isn't much until you realise it's a 9 hole course :smile:

>

> Anyway for these leaving yourself with 200 - 210 yards into the green isn't uncommon after a 3 wood or Hybrid to find the fairway, which is right around a 4 iron for me. Add in a few shorter par 5's, and you'll see why my 4 iron is a regular feature of range sessions.

>

>

 

Well, I did say "from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course."

 

If you have to play those 450-yd Par-4s from that yardage, by all means go with whatever club you think you hit the best. I just know that if I was **_consistently_** playing into greens from 200-yds out, I'd be better off with hybrids no doubt. To each his own though.

[Pepperturbo]

> @NRJyzr said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > @NRJyzr said:

> > > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > > They only just became numbers when OEM's started making stronger lofted heads, prior, each number meant something. :)

> > >

> > >

> > > That happened a lot longer ago than people realize. There was a jump from the 30s to the 50s, not sure how gradually it was done. Once we got there, with the 17* 1 iron, it was mostly static over 30-40 years, except for a bit of creep in the short and mid irons, until the 2 iron replaced the 1 iron.

> > >

> > > And so on.

> > >

> > > It's all stupid. And **it's all about selling clubs**.

> > >

> > > Speaking topically to the tangent.... I picked up a 2 iron to go with my MP37 set, but went with a Mizuno Pro. Largely because the only MP37 2 iron I could find was close to $100, and I'd only spent just over $200 on the entire set (and I'm cheap, LOL).

> > >

> > > Need to get it L&L adjusted for next season....

> >

> > You got the bold right.

> >

> > A relative played on the PGA in the '50s-'60s. There wasn't much on the OEM's part, but tour guys adjusted lofts stronger and weaker. CAD hit OEM's sometime in the late 80s but didn't take hold quickly due to costs. I took up golf at 40yr old (****, that was 30yrs ago, wow) the number on the sole still meant something. That's when most PWs were 48* with a few at the older 50* loft. Seems as though the big push with game improvement with many OEMs was around 2007.

> >

> > In 2003 I had Titleist 670MBs which were 48*-19* 2-iron,; then late 2005 Titleist 735.CM was 47*-18* 2 iron, then in 2006 I switched to Callaway's original X-Forged 47*-18* 2 iron (played from 2006-2014) and Callaway introduced their 2nd iteration of X-Forged around 2007 with more forgiving specs and stronger lofts then 2008 they redesigned X-Forged to be more of a game-improvement club, the rest is history, as they say.

>

>

> Adding to the loft amusement factor, when you took up the game 30 years ago, Palmer Golf was selling an iron set, the Original Standards (or Standard Originals, depending on with whom you spoke), which had an 18° 1 iron, and 51° PW. While Mizuno was selling the MS-9, which had an 18° 2 iron and 47° PW.

>

> Funny

 

Palmer golf was like Nicklaus golf and KZG each made CB's with progressive game improvement specs long before any of the major OEMs which was really my point. You are right, strong lofts been around for a long time but it was spotty with tour players and not common with OEMs. Major OEM's were slow-moving into GI iron market. I also own a set of MacGregor blades custom made for me in 2k. To my surprise, custom could include all sorts of clubhead modifications, including stronger lofts if desired. Like most of their customers, I went with the traditional specs. They made me two different "2" irons at 19* and the iron set started with 3i at 22* and PW at 48*, SW at 56* even 60* LW. Have a good day, I am off to the gym.

[herbert7890]

This video just released by the guys at TXG can bring some context into this topic. This case was an 8 handicap golfer, who actually got more forgiveness, consistency and distance from a blade (MP-20 MBs) compared to the wider soles 919, etc. On this case it seemed the turf interaction was much better with the blade, which helped with his fat shots tendencies (blades cut through the turf better) so he wasnt losing much distance with the blades compared to GI irons. In addition, they discussed the fact that a good chunk of golfers seems to have less toe down position at impact with blades vs larger sole irons, again improving their strike. All of us here should watch this full video and learn a bit from one of the best fitters in the world.

 

The end results from the fitting was:

 

4-5 iron: Mizuno MP-20 MMC

6-PW: Mizuno MP-20 MB

 

[Ripken08]

> @herbert7890 said:

> This video just released by the guys at TXG can bring some context into this topic. This case was an 8 handicap golfer, who actually got more forgiveness, consistency and distance from a blade (MP-20 MBs) compared to the wider soles 919, etc. On this case it seemed the turf interaction was much better with the blade, which helped with his fat shots tendencies (blades cut through the turf better) so he wasnt losing much distance with the blades compared to GI irons. In addition, they discussed the fact that a good chunk of golfers seems to have less toe down position at impact with blades vs larger sole irons, again improving their strike. All of us here should watch this full video and learn a bit from one of the best fitters in the world.

>

> The end results from the fitting was:

>

> 4-5 iron: Mizuno MP-20 MMC

> 6-PW: Mizuno MP-20 MB

>

>

 

Turf interaction??? He is being fitted on a MAT. Things might be substantially different on grass.

[bodhi555]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @bodhi555 said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > > > >

> > > > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > > > >

> > > > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> > > >

> > > > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

> > >

> > > Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Can't say I entirely agree with this - in a typical round I can reach for the 4 iron 3 or 4 times a round playing into a green. Round here, it appears the local courses architects could win a kitchen if they designed the highest number of narrow 450 yard ish Par 4's into their designs, as the courses I play are full of them. One course I play all the time has 2 of them, which isn't much until you realise it's a 9 hole course :smile:

> >

> > Anyway for these leaving yourself with 200 - 210 yards into the green isn't uncommon after a 3 wood or Hybrid to find the fairway, which is right around a 4 iron for me. Add in a few shorter par 5's, and you'll see why my 4 iron is a regular feature of range sessions.

> >

> >

>

> Well, I did say "from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course."

>

> If you have to play those 450-yd Par-4s from that yardage, by all means go with whatever club you think you hit the best. I just know that if I was **_consistently_** playing into greens from 200-yds out, I'd be better off with hybrids no doubt. To each his own though.

 

Don't usually have much of a choice but to play those yardages as competition play stipulates using the Whites, which are only 10 yards further back than regular tees on most courses round here. However the type of hole I mention is not rare round here in the slightest, in fact most courses have a variation on the theme. Luckily they are always low index holes so you can play them as a Par 5 without losing too much to the field.

 

So for me having a solid shot in that range is critical, and I'll usually take the last 15 balls or so of a bucket to make sure the 4 iron is behaving. I did consider a hybrid instead, trying out an 818 H2 23 Deg, but for me the accuracy just wasn't there compared to my 4 iron - I could hit them both straight most of the time, but if I lost the hybrid left or right, it went in a much bigger and more disastrous way.

[Nard_S]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> >

> > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> >

>

> Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

>

> I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

>

> This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

>

> So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

 

Yeah I agree, it's also why I don't practice them as much. My #5W can replace most all 4i & 3i shots but on tight holes, doglegs or just lots of wind or driving in 2 on par 5 the latter work a lot better. I raise the point because this topic is predicated on the belief that traditional in mids and longs are too far out of reach for average Joe but if more Joe's actually practiced hitting longer clubs as much as their scoring clubs, their perch of opinion might be more nuanced or even completely altered. But reality is we all have bigger commitments, there's only so much time to develop skill sets and play, so I get why folks throw shade on traditional gear but rhetoric has always been way too hyperbolic. I'm a major fan of traditional clubs and I do not even practice the long end enough, good bet most GI adherents don't either. So little wonder why this topic is circle jerked around as it is.

[MelloYello]

> @bodhi555 said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @bodhi555 said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > @balls_deep said:

> > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

> > > > >

> > > > > Agree. Even when I’m playing 6800 yards+ I’m still mainly hitting driver short/mid iron. I play a lot of 190-220 par 3s. Rarely am I hitting a 4 or 5 iron into a green and even when I am I play a combo set and it’s no issue.

> > > >

> > > > Yep, and if a guy _IS_ hitting a lot of long irons into greens he's either playing from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course or he simply needs to get with the times and move up a tee box or two to make the game more reasonable. And that same guy who might be hitting a bunch of long irons in because he's too short for the course length he's playing surely wouldn't be benefiting from a blade long iron in those circumstances either.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Can't say I entirely agree with this - in a typical round I can reach for the 4 iron 3 or 4 times a round playing into a green. Round here, it appears the local courses architects could win a kitchen if they designed the highest number of narrow 450 yard ish Par 4's into their designs, as the courses I play are full of them. One course I play all the time has 2 of them, which isn't much until you realise it's a 9 hole course :smile:

> > >

> > > Anyway for these leaving yourself with 200 - 210 yards into the green isn't uncommon after a 3 wood or Hybrid to find the fairway, which is right around a 4 iron for me. Add in a few shorter par 5's, and you'll see why my 4 iron is a regular feature of range sessions.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Well, I did say "from the tippy tips on a really unique golf course."

> >

> > If you have to play those 450-yd Par-4s from that yardage, by all means go with whatever club you think you hit the best. I just know that if I was **_consistently_** playing into greens from 200-yds out, I'd be better off with hybrids no doubt. To each his own though.

>

> Don't usually have much of a choice but to play those yardages as competition play stipulates using the Whites, which are only 10 yards further back than regular tees on most courses round here. However the type of hole I mention is not rare round here in the slightest, in fact most courses have a variation on the theme. Luckily they are always low index holes so you can play them as a Par 5 without losing too much to the field.

>

> So for me having a solid shot in that range is critical, and I'll usually take the last 15 balls or so of a bucket to make sure the 4 iron is behaving. I did consider a hybrid instead, trying out an 818 H2 23 Deg, but for me the accuracy just wasn't there compared to my 4 iron - I could hit them both straight most of the time, but if I lost the hybrid left or right, it went in a much bigger and more disastrous way.

 

Haha, yeah, that WTF hybrid shot that goes 30-yds offline is real.

[Tree Levino]

I’m finding I’m hitting a ton of long irons right now because I’m playing at just over freezing and it’s super windy. Lots of knockdown long irons. Generally speaking though if you can> @Ripken08 said:

> > @herbert7890 said:

> > This video just released by the guys at TXG can bring some context into this topic. This case was an 8 handicap golfer, who actually got more forgiveness, consistency and distance from a blade (MP-20 MBs) compared to the wider soles 919, etc. On this case it seemed the turf interaction was much better with the blade, which helped with his fat shots tendencies (blades cut through the turf better) so he wasnt losing much distance with the blades compared to GI irons. In addition, they discussed the fact that a good chunk of golfers seems to have less toe down position at impact with blades vs larger sole irons, again improving their strike. All of us here should watch this full video and learn a bit from one of the best fitters in the world.

> >

> > The end results from the fitting was:

> >

> > 4-5 iron: Mizuno MP-20 MMC

> > 6-PW: Mizuno MP-20 MB

> >

> >

>

> Turf interaction??? He is being fitted on a MAT. Things might be substantially different on grass.

 

Yeah I just watched this as well. I will say that there is flat out not a better feeling iron on the market than the MP20 Mb. I hate to say it, but if I was fitting that guy I'd have him in Pings all day long (not possible given the contest). In soft Florida conditions and the fact that he hit 50% of hit shots fat I don't know how the blades will go in practice. My guess is the mat is saving him and he's going to hit a ton of fat shots with those. Blades also generally don't work well for people that overswing a lot. For me, the shaft was my main issue with the MP20. If I go back to a blade I'll probably end up in 620 MB though as I much prefer the Titleist grind. Right now I'm loving the 785s though.

[MelloYello]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > There's a lot fan fair about the long end of iron sets, split set, high moi designs, hybrids or even single length and such but isn't part of their difficulty is few really practice with them?

> > >

> > > I am a fan of #3i-pw and have even carried a 2i for many years, do decently with them but when I look at how I spend my practice time, long irons get shorted all the time. By the time I work through shorts & mids, I'm jumping to driver and fairways and next thing you know I'm out of balls and tired. They get less respect than they deserve and it eventually shows on scorecard.

> > >

> >

> > Well, shouldn't the scorecard drive your practice?

> >

> > I drastically reduced practicing mid- and long-irons in the middle of this year and literally improved because I was addressing all the more important stuff: tee shots, short irons, wedges, short game, putting, etc.

> >

> > This is one reason I don't think the long iron guys get much love anymore. I know that on my course, the only time I'm hitting a long iron is on one particular par-3 and then maybe in 1 or 2 other spots where a bad drive might leave me well back. So in any given round I'm hitting my tee clubs 14 times, my short irons a half-dozen or so times, and my wedges 12+ times. But I'm only hitting 1 or 2 long irons.

> >

> > So long as you're not hitting them OB and losing multiple strokes, it doesn't make sense to dedicate an inordinate amount of practice time to them.

>

> Yeah I agree, it's also why I don't practice them as much. My #5W can replace most all 4i & 3i shots but on tight holes, doglegs or just lots of wind or driving in 2 on par 5 the latter work a lot better. I raise the point because this topic is predicated on the belief that traditional in mids and longs are too far out of reach for average Joe but if more Joe's actually practiced hitting longer clubs as much as their scoring clubs, their perch of opinion might be more nuanced or even completely altered. But reality is we all have bigger commitments, there's only so much time to develop skill sets and play, so I get why folks throw shade on traditional gear but rhetoric has always been way too hyperbolic. I'm a major fan of traditional clubs and I do not even practice the long end enough, good bet most GI adherents don't either. So little wonder why this topic is circle jerked around as it is.

 

Well, traditional forged long irons probably are too out of reach for the average Joe but the average Joe is like a 25-handicap, isn't he? So he's not relevant to a thread about player's irons anyway, let alone blades. And your 5w is really taking the place of your 2i so it shouldn't necessarily be kicking your 3i/4i out of the bag, The 3i/4i conversation is more about what kind of performance you want in those clubs according to the spectrum that goes from MB to CB to Hybrid.

 

And yeah, if we agree to leave the blades to the guy who spends 4-hours practicing every day and stick to just the CB vs Hybrid debate then I think people should practice sorting out their game in whatever fashion optimizes fun and minimizes frustration. Honestly, it's probably not any more complicated than that.

 

Do you play for a living? No? Then you play for recreation (aka fun).

 

Once a player has made peace with that they can move on trying to increase fun and eliminate frustration. The best way to do that is to drive it well, wedge it well, putt it well and get up and down when you miss greens.

 

I could have Tiger Woods come hit my 3i-5i for me during my next round but how much fun is that? He's only going to hit maybe 2-3 shots during the round. Hard to get very happy (or sad) regardless of how that tiny little aspect of your game goes, TBH.

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

> @bodhi555 said:

 

> So for me having a solid shot in that range is critical, and I'll usually take the last 15 balls or so of a bucket to make sure the 4 iron is behaving. **I did consider a hybrid instead**, trying out an 818 H2 23 Deg, **but for me the accuracy just wasn't there compared to my 4 iron - I could hit them both straight most of the time, but if I lost the hybrid left or right, it went in a much bigger and more disastrous way.**

 

Yep, that says it. I rarely practice these days, except for a small bucket before teeing off. The gym serves to keep me lose and strong. I really enjoy hitting long (4-2) irons for their accuracy as opposed to hybrids for high trajectory and distance and hoping to hit the green. One friend, in particular, swears by his hybrid clubs yet generally misses the green or fairway wide left, right, short or long, and he accepts that. I ask myself what good is any club if expectations exist yet it's unruly.