Handicap to play blades?

[puttingmatt]

Prior to Ping, and the cavity back iron, if you played golf,

you played blades. Thats all that was available, 1 to 20

handicap, it didn't matter. Today there are choices, find what you like, and go play, the only way you will change your handicap, is through practice and playing. What sticks you use? Is up to you.

[dlygrisse]

When I first started playing golf cavity backs had just been invented. Almost everyone at all levels played “blades”. In fact no one used the term blades. You just called them irons, some were called muscle backs that had higher cog’s.

 

Play what you want, blades aren’t magical, but they aren’t that hard to hit either. Anyone who has the hand-eye to get close to the sweet spot can play them.

[ethan380]

The handicap isn't a good enough indication by itself, ball striking is what you need to look at. And for sure, the lower distance is a factor.

[braincramp52]

Another blade thread with 273 posts and we're still no closer to any kind of answer about who can play blades. Add this thread to the other 5000 threads about blades and we still end up with the same result. There is no answer because frankly, it doesn't matter for the 99.9% of us here. If you can't break 150 and you want to play with a $3000 set Miura irons because you think they look awesome and you love the feel on those few pured shots a round, do it and enjoy yourself. And my last sentence also has been posted thousands of times. Do it because you want to.

[aquapig]

Gotcha love it. "99.9% of us don't care" Then follow that up with the super passive aggressive "cant break 150 playing $3000 blades because you think they look awesome".

 

Sounds like you care a lot more than 99.9% of us.

 

[braincramp52]

> @aquapig said:

> Gotcha love it. "99.9% of us don't care" Then follow that up with the super passive aggressive "cant break 150 playing $3000 blades because you think they look awesome".

>

> Sounds like you care a lot more than 99.9% of us.

>

 

Wow! That's what you took out of that rant!?

[GoGoErky]

> @aquapig said:

> Gotcha love it. "99.9% of us don't care" Then follow that up with the super passive aggressive "cant break 150 playing $3000 blades because you think they look awesome".

>

> Sounds like you care a lot more than 99.9% of us.

>

 

Not what he was trying to say at all.

[No5somes]

> @chippa13 said:

> > @No5somes said:

> > Isn't necessarily a handicap related decision. If one "truthfully" can find the center of the club face most of the time, blades are fine. I've known a few low single digit handicappers, myself included that can't hit a blade more consistently than a "thin soled" cavity back. Low handicap is more related to short game ability than ball striking. It is possible to hit line drives, close to the green on every hole & shoot even par.

> >

> > Comment is made in relation to irons...excluding wedges.

>

> If one is hitting "close to the green on every hole" and shooting even par then they got up and down 100% of the time with only 18 putts. I'm not much of a betting man but I'd put the mortgage on that never happening.

 

 

As Fairway14 has pointed out, it is done. However, the point of my statement was that it's not necessarily handicap related. Others have also mad strong points that supporting this opinion. The thread's topic is "Handicap to play blades."

 

A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges. So, this club is probably closer related handicap due to difference in ability. A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

[Tree Levino]

Not the best science but good for this (endless) debate.

 

[chisag]

> @balls_deep said:

> Not the best science but good for this (endless) debate.

>

 

 

... Very few golf forum discuss MB's at all or not very often. When I woke up and checked in on WRX Equipment a few days ago 3 of the first 5 threads were about MB's. Even though MB's account for 1% of sales, they are always a hot topic here. It is as if all the MB players in the world have found their way here. How else can 1% of the market take up so many topics? Many seem to be looking for justification for playing MB's when the vast majority need no justification, because it has been stated here ad nauseam "play what you want to play". But next week or the week after there will be another MB thread about "Should I play MB's?" in one form or another.

 

 

[dubbelbogey]

From that video, I just took their summary line data and put it all on one sheet for comparisons between types:

 

 

 

[Fairway14]

> @No5somes said:

 

> A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

 

Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @dubbelbogey said:

> From that video, I just took their summary line data and put it all on one sheet for comparisons between types:

>

>

>

>

One thing to note is this guy is quite a low ball hitter. Blade probably not the best option for him but I was surprised by the lack of help a substantially bigger iron gave him.

[Bad9]

> @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

 

Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

[No5somes]

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @No5somes said:

>

> > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

>

> Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

>

>

 

> @Bad9 said:

> > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

>

> Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

 

 

Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

 

I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

[NRJyzr]

> @chisag said:

> > @balls_deep said:

> > Not the best science but good for this (endless) debate.

> >

>

>

> ... Very few golf forum discuss MB's at all or not very often. When I woke up and checked in on WRX Equipment a few days ago 3 of the first 5 threads were about MB's. Even though MB's account for 1% of sales, they are always a hot topic here. It is as if all the MB players in the world have found their way here. How else can 1% of the market take up so many topics? Many seem to be looking for justification for playing MB's when the vast majority need no justification, because it has been stated here ad nauseam "play what you want to play". But next week or the week after there will be another MB thread about "Should I play MB's?" in one form or another.

>

>

 

It's not unlike the number of people here with 115+ driver swingspeed. In the general public, pretty rare. On golf forums, not so much. Haven't met a guy yet from a golf forum who claimed that speed and didn't actually have it.

[Fairway14]

> @No5somes said:

> > @Fairway14 said:

> > > @No5somes said:

> >

> > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> >

> > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> >

> >

>

> > @Bad9 said:

> > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> >

> > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

>

>

> Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

>

> I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

 

I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

[Tree Levino]

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @No5somes said:

> > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > @No5somes said:

> > >

> > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > >

> > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > >

> > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> >

> >

> > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> >

> > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

>

> I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

 

Are you joking? Genuinely asking

[Fairway14]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @Fairway14 said:

> > > @No5somes said:

> > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > >

> > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > >

> > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> >

> > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

>

> Are you joking? Genuinely asking

 

 

Joking about what exactly ?

I rarely see a player make square, perfect type contact with a wedge. Slightly mishit wedge shots are common, even among Tour players.

 

[Swingingk]

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @No5somes said:

> > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > @No5somes said:

> > >

> > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > >

> > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > >

> > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> >

> >

> > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> >

> > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

>

> I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

 

I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

[Fairway14]

> @Swingingk said:

> > @Fairway14 said:

> > > @No5somes said:

> > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > >

> > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > >

> > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> >

> > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

>

> I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

 

Why do you question the benefits of perimeter weighting for wedges ? Consider that players of all skill levels seem to embrace "forgiving putters" , be it mallet head style or heel toe weighted styles, and the distance a putted ball travels and, or, the putting stroke is much shorter than a wedge shot distance or swing.

In other words, if the Bullseyes and 8802 style putters are thought to be "too unforgiving" for putting , then why do blade style wedges get a pass ?

[Tree Levino]

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @Swingingk said:

> > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > > >

> > > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> > >

> > > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

> >

> > I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

>

> Why do you question the benefits of perimeter weighting for wedges ? Consider that players of all skill levels seem to embrace "forgiving putters" , be it mallet head style or heel toe weighted styles, and the distance a putted ball travels and, or, the putting stroke is much shorter than a wedge shot distance or swing.

> In other words, if the Bullseyes and 8802 style putters are thought to be "too unforgiving" for putting , then why do blade style wedges get a pass ?

 

Wishon, a proponent of CBs, literally says there's no difference between a CB and a blade from 8 iron down.

[Swingingk]

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @Swingingk said:

> > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > > >

> > > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> > >

> > > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

> >

> > I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

>

> Why do you question the benefits of perimeter weighting for wedges ? Consider that players of all skill levels seem to embrace "forgiving putters" , be it mallet head style or heel toe weighted styles, and the distance a putted ball travels and, or, the putting stroke is much shorter than a wedge shot distance or swing.

> In other words, if the Bullseyes and 8802 style putters are thought to be "too unforgiving" for putting , then why do blade style wedges get a pass ?

 

> @Fairway14 said:

> > @Swingingk said:

> > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > > >

> > > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> > >

> > > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

> >

> > I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

>

> Why do you question the benefits of perimeter weighting for wedges ? Consider that players of all skill levels seem to embrace "forgiving putters" , be it mallet head style or heel toe weighted styles, and the distance a putted ball travels and, or, the putting stroke is much shorter than a wedge shot distance or swing.

> In other words, if the Bullseyes and 8802 style putters are thought to be "too unforgiving" for putting , then why do blade style wedges get a pass ?

 

Because wedges aren't putters. I do not question the benefits of perimeter weighting on wedges - I know there's no benefit to it.  That's just me though.  I will recognize that it would likely be possible to prove there is "some" kind of benefit but I believe it to be insignificant and therefore little more than hype and marketing.  The further up the set you go the more difference it makes to the point where it really starts becoming obvious to the player in the long irons, but down around the wedges and lower scoring irons I believe it does not. 

 

As for why a putter is not affected by perimeter weighting in the same way a wedge is I do not know.  In my opinion the less loft a club has, the more perimeter weighting seems to affect the outcome of good contact.  Good flight from a wedge seems to come more from the loft itself than where the mass is located in the head.  I would also guess that a putter is much less restricted in its weight and location of that weight than a wedge or short iron.  In irons one is trying to compress and lift the ball which would require more mass behind the point of contact than a putter would require for good effect.  Because on a putter you are not trying to compress the ball you are free to move the weight from behind the face to the outer edges and enjoy the effects of the much better MOI therein.

 

All that being said I'd like to think I'm a pretty open minded guy so if anyone can steer me in the direction of actual fact I'm all ears.  This old dog is always keen to learn new tricks, although I do have a distaste for Kool-aid...  (add friendly smile "here")

[Bubbtubbs]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @Fairway14 said:

> > > @Swingingk said:

> > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> > > >

> > > > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > > > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > > > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

> > >

> > > I've read through this thread and i must say it has been interesting so far. There has been a lot of what I feel is educated discussion from an above average number of wrx'rs whose opinions I respect. That being said... I do feel that in my own mid-cap experience that I find the above statement about wedges to be just wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in my opinion most golfers will not be able to tell the difference between a blade or a CB in any iron below a 9. A cavity back sand wedge is not going to feel any different or offer any significant advantage over a blade sand wedge. I can buy into the idea that any iron from 6 to 3 will definitely feel more "forgiving" in a CB than a blade but a wedge? No way. Sorry if I'm interupting here but I just felt that one went too far. Flame me if necessary - I won't put up a fight.

> >

> > Why do you question the benefits of perimeter weighting for wedges ? Consider that players of all skill levels seem to embrace "forgiving putters" , be it mallet head style or heel toe weighted styles, and the distance a putted ball travels and, or, the putting stroke is much shorter than a wedge shot distance or swing.

> > In other words, if the Bullseyes and 8802 style putters are thought to be "too unforgiving" for putting , then why do blade style wedges get a pass ?

>

> Wishon, a proponent of CBs, literally says there's no difference between a CB and a blade from 8 iron down.

 

Plus they look kind of stupid, which might not be a factor for some, but this guy isn't spending upwards of $120 on a club that looks worse and performs the same.

[tannyhoban]

I tried a lot of different irons this year looking for better long iron performance. Long story short I plan to go into next year playing 3-P in a CB. Two sets, one for cold and sloppy (712 AP2) and one for warmer days (MP 63). S300 in both.

 

Sole width and shape has everything to do with that decision. I doubt I'll ever go back to blades, and I also doubt I'll go full GI ever again.

 

Newer clubs haven't proven to be better for me than either of those. I feel pretty good about next year knowing the science experiments are over.

 

From the variety of lies golf presents I get better results from a thinner sole. It's that simple for me. And with S300 I know I can get a slight draw on the go shots.

 

Having that stock shot is far more important to me than gaining a few yards and not knowing for sure where it might land.

 

Reviewing my Grint stats it's been an up and down year largely due to poor iron play. And I was doing that mostly from the fairway.

 

Not a long hitter, but 3 iron comes in handy for such a variety of shots I've decided to keep it in the bag.

 

Finding what works has been an interesting journey this year. I kinda feel like I didn't pass go, ha.

Sometimes we gotta recalibrate and revalidate.

[mn723]

> @tets said:

> ANY handicap... try this, go over your last round. Take your score, subtract all the putts you hit, then subtract any wedges include chip shots, bunker shots etc, next take away 18 tee shots ( if there are 4 par 3’s you can choose not to subtract them if you want) .. your “ other” shots will be somewhere around 10, plus or minus a few. You may also choose to subtract hybrids and fairway woods if you want. My point is play what irons you want, you probably use them less than you think.

 

This is eye opening!! Never thought of doing this math, but it is very true. I say play what you want and what looks good to your eye.

 

[No5somes]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @Fairway14 said:

> > > @No5somes said:

> > > > @Fairway14 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said:

> > > >

> > > > > A caveat to this would be lofted wedges. It is easier to control distance consistently w/blade (no or only slightly toward top cavity back) type wedges.

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. Specifically, often times wedge shots are played from sloped, grassy, sandy, or other less than ideal lies. From these lies it is a challenge for even the most highly skilled players to make solid-square ball contact.

> > > > So, while blade style wedges may have some benefits such as reliable shot trajectory and, or, distance control from ideal lies, I imagine that for at least half the wedge shots a player faces the "forgiveness"of a cavity back wedge is an asset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > @Bad9 said:

> > > > > @No5somes said: A higher handicap player may not even know that their lofted wedge distance control is being skewed (inconsistent) by a cavity backed lofted wedge...or their touch doesn't allow them to actually benefit from the difference between the two designs. Heck, they're usually more focused on making clean contact than shot making.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe their distance control isn't being skewed.

> > >

> > >

> > > Yah, maybe they just suck, lol, J/K.

> > >

> > > I agree w/ both of you & that my comment is more of an opinion. Of course, nothing is absolute.

> >

> > I do think the "blade wedge" popularity is interesting, especially the success of Titleist-Vokey products. I believe Vokey wedges have harmed more scoring averages than any other golf equipment line. For decades now the various sole grinds which Vokey offers have been advertised by Titleist and promoted by Vokey. But I question what percentage of players are skilled enough to actually make use of Vokey's supposed sole/grind benefits. My guess is

> > less than 1/1000 percentage of players. And no perimeter weighting means the slightest mishit shot will suffer from distance and, or, accuracy control issues; so an 80 yard shot might end up 25 feet from the hole instead of 15 feet. Over the course of a round of golf the distance/accuracy losses from slightly mishit wedge shots can mean 2, 3, or more shots to the scoring average.

> > I think for many players the blade style wedges harm score more than blade style irons.

>

> Are you joking? Genuinely asking

 

Yes, I was joking.

 

 

 

[herbert7890]

One side story today (somewhat also related to blades). I was at the range today, as usual (I go 4 times a range per week). One instructor that I see every day there approached me while I was hitting the MP-20s, he said on his 15 years working there, he hasn't seen many swings quite as solid and fluid as mine (I almost blushed of course) and let him know I have never taken any lessons in my life, just reading golf magazines since a kid. He asks me if I could hit a few more shots, just so he could appreciate the swing (he found my most apparent flaw is that I come a bit much from the inside (which I already knew) so I thank him for the tip.

 

But now for the blade portion, he took a look at my bag and when he saw the MP-20s he said, probably one of the few guys around here that can actually play these babies, that would be you with that swing.

 

While I loved the compliment, I don't wholly agree with that statement. Blades are just a solid tool, based on your swing type and/or preference. No more drama or novelty needed, in my opinion.

[Tree Levino]

> @herbert7890 said:

> One side story today (somewhat also related to blades). I was at the range today, as usual (I go 4 times a range per week). One instructor that I see every day there approached me while I was hitting the MP-20s, he said on his 15 years working there, he hasn't seen many swings quite as solid and fluid as mine (I almost blushed of course) and let him know I have never taken any lessons in my life, just reading golf magazines since a kid. He asks me if I could hit a few more shots, just so he could appreciate the swing (he found my most apparent flaw is that I come a bit much from the inside (which I already knew) so I thank him for the tip.

>

> But now for the blade portion, he took a look at my bag and when he saw the MP-20s he said, probably one of the few guys around here that can actually play these babies, that would be you with that swing.

>

> While I loved the compliment, I don't wholly agree with that statement. Blades are just a solid tool, based on your swing type and/or preference. No more drama or novelty needed, in my opinion.

 

Welp. We’re gonna have to see that swing !

[bodhi555]

From my time at the range yesterday, I'd say the biggest thing that stops your average amateur from hitting blades is the fact they are swinging themselves off their feet trying to hit a 7 iron 200 yards. It might just have been the section I was in, but rather than stack and tilt it seemed the people round me were practising grunt and spray ?

 

But seriously, if you swing at 90% with your irons a modern MB is no more difficult to hit than a players CB - I would say there is far more difference in forgiveness between a GI and a CB that CB to MB.