How Do Tour Pros Hit A Fade?

[Cpr3584]

As a lifelong drawer of the ball, I want to start hitting a fade.

The draw is fine but it is harder to control under tournament pressure. How do pros hit the fade? I have seen a lot of different answers on the internet.

Some instructors say they are still coming from the inside but just change their setup, opening stance slightly, etc.

But other instructors are saying they are cutting across the ball slightly out-to-in to put the cut spin on it. It appears that is what Koepka and D. Johnson are doing with their upright swings but i'm not sure.

Are there several ways to hit a fade? im confused.

Any information will help. thanks!

[PreppySlapCut]

If the face is open to the path, the ball is going to fade. There’s several adjustments you can make to encourage that to happen, it’s just a question of what feels best for you and allows you to do it most consistently.

[bladehunter]

As a once hooker/drawer of the ball , now straight and fall right fader , it’s easier than you think. For me just the sensation of taking the club back outside your hands , and then swing left with a face square to target , while turning hard as you can makes for a pretty straight flight that won’t hook. Unless you stall and let your hands pass you.

That’s my take as an upright swinger If you’re really flat it’s going to be tough to time up and never have the two way miss Because you’re always coming from the inside and will rely on timing the face open or shut to see a fade or draw . For me it’s just set the face at address and feel like you hold it there until impact

 

Disclaimer- my feels. Maybe different for anyone else.

 

[march11934]

Hey there. Im curious as to why you think a fade is easier than a draw? I see you’re a 4 handicap. I’m a 5 so we probably can discuss swing thoughts within our abilities. I would ask what is your go to swing? Without thinking and forcing a shape. Reason I ask is I have seen draw swings overdraw the ball, but I have seen fade swings slice the ball. Bad shot is a bad shot. I went through a transition over the past 10 years from fade to draw to draw hook. I have since backed it off to a straight line shot with very little draw. That is how I got down to a 5. My secret was backing off the flat swing plane and going to a very elevated backswing. But keep the same path and timing. Stenson would be a good example.

Just a thought . Curious what you think.

 

 

[dpb5031]

Had a pro teach me this. Aim a little left, stance slightly open, still hit it from the inside (just like your draw), but unwind chest hard letting handle follow your rotation so toe never passes heel. He called it a "drawy fade." Ball takes off almost looking like it's going to draw, but tumbles over to the right instead of left. Cool thing is ya dont give up any distance doing it this way as opposed to cutting across it.

[b.helts]

Let's see it! Sounds great.

[bladehunter]

All in good time. I’m not sure I’m ready for that many fans this early in my social media career. ?....

 

but seriously like I said , clearly I think about a lot of things differently than most. So you have to take my feelings on the swing and apply what makes sense to you. If it doesn’t then you should know quickly that it doesn’t work for you. .

 

To extrapolate a touch. think of the swing at impact from an arial view. Now think of your arms being a door. And the door opening and closing as it would creating an arc. That’s my vision of a flat swing. Ripe for the 2 way miss.

 

Now take that arc and stand it on end. What do you see ? You should see a door that opens up and closes down the same line ; which happens to be the foot line. If you adjust that line a small fraction left or right while adjusting the face the opposite way ( open or closed ) a small amount you can easily work out a fade or a draw. But with the flat arc you can’t easily do that. A draw or hook , yes. A fade , much harder. Some will hit a push and call it a fade. But it’s not. ( yes I know it is possible to hit a fade from a flat swing , so no jumping to that conclusion )

 

Now sure. There are many many arcs and plains in between those two extremes that work. And Very few are straight up and down. Including me. I’m not. But it is my thought to be tall and swing back down on the line I intend to come back on to hit it. In other words at address I see a straight line , one side going to target , one side going back behind me. No arc in my thoughts. I come back straight and go to the target straight. ( clubhead). Adjusting the takeaway slightly inside or outside for a fade or draw. This really allows me 3 shapes. Left right and straight ( which falls right ) if I’m swinging welll. Some days I am tired and have only one shape to play. So I play what I have.

 

Sorry for the ramble. Op. The short version is it depends on your setup , and swing makeup. ( in my opinion ).

[b.helts]

So this isn't the answer, but it's the fact that all answers will be derived from.

Some pros will hit pull fades, some push fades, some from an open stance, some from a closed one.

But the nuts and the bolts are that the face has to be open to the path for the ball to cut/fade/slice.

[mikpga]

Would you happen to know your average path #'s?

[cardoustie]

I need to cut across it to fade it ... Like Langer and other old schoolers I have seen on the GC giving this lesson
Inside out with open face = block city for this cat, YMMV
Continuing to rotate thru the shot, as @bladehunter says, is key

[dpb5031]

Inside out = blocks &/or hooks for practically anybody.

Inside/square/inside is the deal. To fade it, face just needs to be a fraction open to path at impact. That's why you need to continue to rotate thru aggressively with handle tracking your rotating core around to the left (for a righty). If arms separate and chase DTL you're toast. Aim left, body line left, ball a touch forward, then bust the heck out of it from the inside back to the inside. (A good thought is to rotate/get that handle around so aggressively that the toe can't pass the heel)

You can fade it easily & reliably with either a shallow or steep plane, especially with driver & fairways. You just need to create the conditions that are most conducive to achieving that face angle to path relationship reliably at impact.

[bladehunter]

Question.

 

How far left can you aim to hit it inside , square , inside ? As in what line does the ball start on ?

 

Think of it opposite. If I swing outside shut inside what do I get ? A draw ? Or a pull ? It will curve left. But it’s not a draw in my opinion .

 

At any rate. It’s semantics mostly , and personal opinions the rest of the way. If you can control it both in dispersion and distance , any shape made by any means will play this game well.

[YoungJedi]

Same way anyone hits a fade. The face is open in comparison to the path.

[dpb5031]

I usually start down left edge of fairway and fade it back.

If you put the ball a little forward the club will be exiting left (imagine swinging in a circle). You still attack sufficiently shallow and from inside, no need to intentionally wipe across it from the outside or be steep or intentionally more upright. As long as your hand path tracks your leftward core rotation the clubhead will too. Right shoulder must keep moving.

The key is to be in sync (arms & body rotation) and aggressive with no quit or steering. You'll passively control the toe by unwinding so aggressively. You just absolutely cannot stall and let it roll down. There's no need to manipulate it, just unwind so hard the toe doesn't have a chance to overtake.

And the face is often actually slightly closed relative to target line, but it's the relationship to the leftward path that ensures the fade flight.

I used to fade it by cutting across it. I could shape it reliably but it was a weaker (kinda wipey) and spinnier flight that cost me 20% or more of my power. With the method I'm describing my fades generally go as far as my draws, and there's very little manipulation of my normal swing.

Rory was just on GC in Pop Up Clinic with Chamblee talking about how much better he got at working the ball once he realized he could hit a fade with a closed face. Path just has to be left

[bladehunter]

Yea. I hear that in theory. But it’s just not ever going to be me. With my height , a swing that flat ( to swing in a circle ) just isn’t a natural move. And might require clubs much longer. Lol.

 

But i do agree with with you and Rory on the shut or square face fade. That’s the fade I call “ straight “. It falls right and as you said doesn’t lose much distance. I hit That well. But it’s from a pretty neutral path , that just exits left. You have to be feeling well and be able to Turn hard to hit it though. On days when I sneak in 9 after being on my feet working all day , it’s a no go. It results in a double cross. Simply because I can’t turn hard enough to execute it. But on a normal rested round , it’s absolutely deadly accurate.

[dpb5031]

Agree 100%...body has got to be working to execute this! Age and some arthritis means mine doesnt always cooperate...lol

[Krt22]

Even Tiger can attest to that!

[Scottbox]

Jon Rahm is a good example. Watch the hand path of his backswing-- his hands are not as "deep" as someone who draws the ball (i.e. Rory). And even though he has a slightly shut face, Rahm rotates his chest and hips very hard. Because there's less depth to his backswing, the club gets more in front of him at P6. He's most likely 1-2* outside in at last parallel. Brooks Koepka has a longer swing, but similar, in terms of his hand path-- well above the shaft plane going up with less depth to his hands at the top, and slightly above the plane coming down.

Most good modern players rotate pretty hard with their hips and chest to stabilize the face, but the difference between those who draw it and those who hit a baby cut is often seen in the way they "engineer" their backswing patterns.

[bladehunter]

Yes. Yes. That sounds like the educated way to say what I was thinking. Lol.

[Scottbox]

I'm very smart and have many useless degrees, thank you!

[Krt22]

Some of the "holistic" swing gurus on here will tell you back swing doesn't matter though.

[bladehunter]

lol. No more than aim line or face angle. Double lol.

[Krt22]

Just visualize the shot like jason day, ball will fade, no need to think about anything else

[Ri_Redneck]

You can hit a fade either way. The problem I see is you have to adjust your stance far more if coming from the inside because the ball HAS to start left of the end target. I find it's far easier to play the fade with an out-to-in swing. My natural shot is a draw and I have to work hard to hit a controlled fade. Big cut around a tree, no problem, but that baby fade is tough because it's such a small adjustment. I have worked hard for years to teach myself to see the path of the club as it's coming through the ball, so adjusting the path isn't hard. It's getting the FA just right to get the proper combination of FA to Path. My range sessions always involve some working of the ball so I stay aware of what it takes. And as usual, some days are far better than others.

BT

[Barfolomew]

Face open to path

 

Play with face open to path to adjust the amount of fade produced. Take it less and less and you'll find a nice straight one at the end of the rainbow... heck I'll even play a fade setup to hit a draw it's just one tiny notch beyond the straight shot.

[Stanks]

When they put the grip on, they put it every so slightly left.

[Cpr3584]

I would imagine its easier to cut the ball with the hand path that Rahm and Koepka create. Its just how they learned the play the game. Club is very outside the hands in the backswing.

My swing is more like Rory, neutral hand path , slightly inside, hands "deep". I grew up playing a hook which turned into a draw when I improved my game.

A few instructors told me im way too flat, etc and try to get the club square the entire backswing. It just doesn't work for me. I have pretty long arms so I like to let the face open slightly. This requires more timing on my end but i'm ok with that because the overall results are better than trying to keep the face square and depend on an excessive amount of rotation to hit it straight.

For now, I think i'm going to try to learn the fade with a slightly more upright swing and cut across from out to in. I noticed Tiger Woods rehearses a very out-to-in practice swing before he hits his signature fade. His draw practice swings look much more flat.

thanks everyone for the responses!

[Lefty_3Jack]

You don't have to change your backswing to get it done. Be careful with steepening as it willl work for awhile, but you'll start overcooking it and you'll be hitting heel slices and that's worse than toe hooks.

I put an alignment rod down at a 30* angle and made myself swing in that direction. You'll find your upper body opening up to allow yourself to swing in that direction. It'll feel like you're swinging a mile right (for you) and you're probably still neutral or 1* out to in when you're doing it.

Hit balls with them stupidly forward in your stance. Tell yourself that you have to pull them and they cannot draw. Do them at slower speeds and focus on pulling them and making sure they're falling back.

On the course I open my stance up on maybe every shot, just slightly to help allow myself to swing in to out.

[ferrispgm]

Fades off the tee are the way to go......there is a reason why some of the best drivers historically hit fades.....easier to control and distance lost vs a draw is very minimal. In addition, the misses with a fade are less severe than a draw...a snap hook will run and run....a slice typically doesn't run much when it lands.

 

Easiest way to hit a fade is play the ball forward of normal and make your normal swing. By playing the ball forward, your shoulders have to open slightly to reach the ball which presets a slightly out to in takeaway/path and a little cut. You can play with the face angle a bit at setup too if your would rather play a little pull cut or a straightish cut. For me, I like seeing the ball start on or a touch right of the target...when it starts left i start getting irritable.

[dpb5031]

It really is a fallacy that you need to be upright, steep, or cut across it to hit a fade. Plenty of Tour pros fade it just fine with a shallow AOA. As has been stated, the face just has to be slightly open to path, which is not very difficult to achieve with a slight tweak in set-up, ball position, and some intent to rotate hard and get the handle around.