Patrick Reed and how much does that go on in Junior Golf

[sui generis]

Rule 1.3 means nothing to you, we see. That's too bad. However, the Rules mean a lot to the junior players most of us see. So, please stay away from them. Rules and Interpretations

 

[Irishman1979]

You know what else I don't agree with? When you end up in a divot in the fairway. A player should not be penalized when they hit a fairway.

If you end up in one in the rough then so be it. The USGA has some really stupid rules.

[davep043]

This probably belongs in the Rules forum, not in the Juniors/College Golf Talk area. There are plenty of threads there about rules that people want changed.

[leezer99]

Funny that your avatar is the Shark...

Norman used to go to his ball, see it was in a divot and tell his caddie he should get a free drop. Tom Watson on the other hand would end up in a similar spot and tell his caddie, 'watch this'.

[wlm]

If you end up in a divot in the fairway, it is an unfortunate break. However, part of the game is playing different kind of lies. So, better learn how to play a shot out of a divot, and how to chip and putt to salvage the hole.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

To the OP. In Junior golf every single tournament. Some the parents help cheat.

[sui generis]

I referee a fair bit of junior golf. Help me out . . . what are some of the ways spectators and/or parents help their kids?

[heavy_hitter]

Asking them the distance and telling them what club to use. Happens a lot with parents and kids using foreign languages.

[tiger1873]

the vast majority of players are honest in junior golf. In some tournaments if you cheat you almost certainly get a DQ.

to cheat in a high level junior event you have to be a pretty good cheat to not get caught.

if you are playing events were a number of parents help parents you are playing a low end event not worth your time.

[tiger1873]

To be honest I use to worry about this but i learned if the person hitting the ball does not know the club or distance and are asking for that information means you know they are in over there head.

it really only relevant for kids who are in middle school and even then most parents are not as good as the kids and end up giving bad advice.

kids undercounting stokes is the biggest issue I see out there.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Yea, my son used to be that passive kid. He would come home upset and pissed off. He would be angry. Told him until you call them out there is nothing anybody will do.

 

First time he did it I think alot of his stress about doing it when away. He refused to leave a green until the kid admitted his 6 was really an 8.

Told the kid (it was a par 5) how did we both reach it in 3 when you first shot was OB

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Yea, my son used to be that passive kid. He would come home upset and pissed off. He would be angry. Told him until you call them out there is nothing anybody will do.

 

First time he did it I think alot of his stress about doing it when away. He refused to leave a green until the kid admitted his 6 was really an 8.

Told the kid (it was a par 5) how did we both reach it in 3 when you first shot was OB

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

 

Is this baseball or football? You mean you're a rules official?

 

One example: Jr. PGA Championship. A kid class of 2022 mother would walk ahead and stand on near the fringe. She align herself as to where he should place the shot (right of the pin, etc..). If the wind at the green was left to right. She would hold up her left arm. Right to left up came the right arm.

This happened over and over until the kids in his group (son's group) complained to the rules official.

If you really had to ask then you dont "referee" a fair bit.

[tiger1873]

Very common and the best way is for you kid to tell the other kid it's nice your mom likes to point out where to shoot plus you might want to tell her to move faster because I might miss right near where she stands.

Like I said before if a player needs this you should be happy because it means they have very little course management and are not that good.

[sui generis]

I'm well aware of the behavior you describe and some other tricks, too. However, I don't know of every trick and would like to hear of those I haven't seen.

Yes, I am a referee and do referee a fair bit of junior (and high school, college, amateur and senior men and women) golf and have done so for quite awhile.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Thats to funny! My son said afterwards he actually thought about hitting one towards the mom.

Is wasnt like she was always the on the green which made it obvious. She would survey the green and walk up to the fringe.

Son (2021) and the other kid (2020) made comments to him. Finally, they had to go to the rules official.

[tiger1873]

two tricks I have heard about is the lifesaver trick on a par 5 where you use a green lifesaver to improve your lie. The other one is improve the lie or move the ball when someone else is hitting the ball because no one is watching them.

I also heard people talk about putting Vaseline on the. Driver but not sure if people still do that.

I am sure there a ton more out there.

[sui generis]

I sometimes see dad on the cartpath giving subtle body movement swing guidance and up around the green using small hand signals for putt breaks. Parents watch each other carefully for such shenanigans. We referees hear about it right away. Much of it is innocent and done out of ignorance of the implications for the player, but not always. I never hesitate to speak with a spectator whose behavior suggests advice. We usually part as friends.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

As @tiger1873 has mentioned before I think the worst thing is kids under counting their strokes. Like kid how did you shot a 73. You never hit a green and never got up and down. I mean do you think these are handicap events.

[heavy_hitter]

Yep. They conveniently forget to count a penalty stroke.

 

Kid my son plays with will let the person keeping the score ask him "Did you have a par?". The answer will be yes even if he had a double bogey. Let's him know early on if he will get away with anything. If brought up later and challenged it is "Oh yeah, that is right." You should never suggest to another player their score. You should ask and allow them to give you an answer.

[BloctonGolf11]

The America we have become...

[heavy_hitter]

So you are a cheater with a lack of integrity and character.

[GolfSRQ]

My son played this past weekend in a world junior event in Florida. This is new territory for us and i didn’t know what to expect. Most of the kids were from other countries and the overall vibe was pleasant.

The course played up and back so as I was following My son I could observe several other groups. The area that really shocked me was the drops after shots into the water. Many holes had water running up one or both sides parallel to the holes. Kids would pull a tee shot that would run up the middle of the water. And then they would go drop halfway up the fairway , even with where the ball landed in the water. I saw this at Least 4-5 times where I was directly behind the tee box. There were rules officials all over and yet this seemed to be ok.

kind of shocking to me.

[tiger1873]

What age group are we talking about? Was this an IMG event? Did the scores seems kind of low? If it was an IMG event it doesn’t surprise me.

[GolfSRQ]

It was an img event. Scores weren’t Low. The course was set up fairly tough.

[BeerPerHole]

I haven't noticed it in junior golf. For the most part, it seems that kids in junior golf are pretty honest...

[heavy_hitter]

Is he playing 36 hole two day tournaments. I can assure you that if he is there are kids that aren't afraid to foot wedge a ball.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Four years following my kids around about a decade ago, I’ve never seen this before. What I had seen are improper drops and scoring, but not usually from the kids being dishonest as much as not knowing. Even up to High School...

Kids are usually the most honest in any group.

Most local tournaments don’t have proper oversight, so many kids and their officials don’t know the rules well enough. At higher level tournaments the quality of the officials are better and they are more confident of the rulings. They are generally better golfers themselves and have experienced all the situations numerous times and know how to deal with them.

Again, not purposeful cheating from my own experience.

[tiger1873]

Have you actually watched junior tournaments? Play enough tournaments and you are going to see kids do stuff. A lot the problems also start off innocent enough. The problem is people look the other way and it usually ends up blowing up at some point. There is a reason you see plenty of spotters at AGJA tournaments.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

I had for 4 years, didn’t see any purposeful cheating.

Not saying it doesn’t happen, but just have not seen it myself. Maybe those kids feel excessive pressure from their parents?