Calculating Net Double Bogey????

[deadsolid...shank]

I’m in full agreement with dpb on this one. 1/2 shot skins works well. I have no hard data to support it, just many years of playing different formats and finding it the best.

[Shilgy]

we do occasionally playt half shot skins but the usual game we play is both gross and net skins. Some complain that creates “too many skins” but many of them are doubling up gross and net so it’s really not that much dilution of worth. Higher handicaps complain the half stroke variety lessens their opportunity to win a skin.

[dpb5031]

Agree, doing both gross & net can work just fine in terms of fairness, but is not favored in the groups I play in over using half shots. Dilution and the annoyance of having to call 'em out twice are main objections. It's hard to get 20-30 guys to pay attention after they've been sitting there drinking...lol! ?

Truth is, a skins game is a gamble not much different than a lottery. The best player for the day, be it gross or net, is not guaranteed to win anything.

[davep043]

Every player knows which formats decrease their chances of winning, yet none acknowledge the formats that give them an unfair edge. Low handicappers complain that anything net lessens their opportunity to win, yet playing even gives them a huge edge against a typical group of golfers. From my experience, and everything I've read, net skins with full handicaps, either off the low ball or off scratch, unreasonably favor the higher handicaps. I've read that a reduction to something like 2/3 or 1/2 of handicap is generally more fair, which makes the idea of half-strokes seem pretty logical.

[cardia10]

Or we could just pick up ping pong and simplify things a little. No wonder no one is picking up golf anymore.

[Sawgrass]

Ping pong does not have a very good handicapping system.

[txsndvl]

This thread is like those crazy Math memes i see on the internet. whats the answer to 3x4-6+(6/3)... I'm going to need an app for this.

[nsxguy]

8 ?

[txsndvl]

That’s what I got but. I’m not a math major.

[sui generis]

Do this, like others who've been paying attention:

1) On your phone, delete your old GHIN app.

2) Turn your phone OFF

3) Turn your phone ON

4) Install the new GHIN app

5) Figure out how to record your scores in the hole-by-hole format.

No calculating required. Even a caveman can do it. ?

[antip]

Even a caveman can do it.

Providing the cave has mobile connectivity.

[Roadking2003]

A better way is to play both gross and net skins. That makes everybody happy.

 

BTW, a bogey golfer making a par is not a "cheap par"

[Roadking2003]

True, but lower caps have much better odds. Would you like to play a half stroke skins game with DJ, JT and Rory?

[Shilgy]

Meh, some are cheap pars. Take your typical 18 handicap. He really needs a couple strokes on some of the more difficult holes but instead he gets one- every hole. Even the short somewhat driveable par 4 that even he is hitting a little wedge into.

[Sawgrass]

Nobody knows the trouble I've seen . . .

[Shilgy]

Lol, yep! But it’s funny. Handicaps work well as intended...for match play. Or even as an means to an end for net total score. But for skins they do not. Not that I would have a better solution though so we play with what we’ve got.

[dpb5031]

Don't disagree that two pools, gross & net is a reasonable option.

Completely disagree about most pars for net birdie. Of course it depends on the player, but pars are much easier to make for mid cappers than birdies are for lower single digits.

[dpb5031]

Yes, I would. From the tees we play those guys would be giving back shots on as many as 7-10 holes or more. A 4 on many par 4s would be 4 1/2 for them.

I explained that it's not a perfect science. The handicap system was not designed for a skins pool, and the range and distribution of handicaps within the group has a huge influence. The more "like for like" players in the group, the fairer. Single outliers in either direction are typically advantaged.

[Imp]

And that's how I got the math answer to txsndvl's math question. Cut and paste into a tool that can answer the question... google.

 

For handicaps and differentials, that's "Ghin".

[Sawgrass]

I'm not entirely sure how many strokes a "mid-capper" gets, but if we're saying 9, a lot of those easy pars won't be a net birdie anyway.

[Newby]

If the handicap range extends to 54, surely a mid-capper plays off about 27. If it was 36 over there then it would be about 18

[Colin L]

Anyone with a single figure handicap is, from my perspective (at 17 a bit closer to a mid-capper) to be regarded with some awe and respect!

[dpb5031]

My point is simply that a typical 8-12 handicap player has a higher probability of making pars on stroke holes (for net birdies) than your typical scratch player does of making a natural birdies.

[dpb5031]

Thankfully I don't live in that world ?. Playing in men's groups for over 25 years the highest handicaps in our range are rarely above 18.

I know they're out there, and that's cool, but they probably belong in a different group.

[Newby]

I believe the average handicap is around 14-16 in the US and 16-18 in the UK (using different systems of course)

[dpb5031]

I was not referencing the "average" handicap. I was talking about the average "mid-handicap" player...the type regularly encountered in a typical men's group at many clubs...at least here in the US .

[Imp]

With the scale moved this year from 36 to 54, "mid capper" has been redefined if you look at it simply from the numbers. From a purely numerical standpoint, it used to be a range near/around 18, i.e., bogey golfer. Now, it is "around 27". However, if you put the player handicaps on a curve right now, I bet the top of that curve will still be around 18-20, because bogey golf is still the average golf score.

[dpb5031]

Agreed as far as the pure overall numbers, but that's taking into account a lot of casual type players who rarely (if ever) are going to be playing in a men's group.

Again, my point was relative to the groups that I've participated in for over 25 years where the range of handicaps is generally 0-18. In that case mid-cappers in the group are in the 8-12 range.

Of course there are groups consisting of players with significantly higher handicaps as well, but in my experience it'd be rare that they'd be mixing it up with single digit to scratch players. Group dynamics as it relates to a skins pool may be different under that circumstance.

As I've stated, single outliers (at the far end of either end of the range) are typically advantaged because they won't have others of similar abilities (and strokes) to halve them. Lots of variables and no perfect science to a skins pool

[HatsForBats]

I think it definitely depends on the group you are playing in. In general though I would think it would be indexes near those highlighted below. If you have a lot of lower handicappers then the range is probably lower and if you have a bunch of higher caps then the range would be higher.

 

I don't think making the current INDEX limit higher is going to do much of anything to change the percentages.

 

[Sawgrass]

I'm interested in your chart, but could you tell me what the column headings are?