Do you really need a wedge with more loft than 55 or 56 degree in your bag...

[NorthStar7]

You'll have to pry my Ping Glide 58 W$ from my cold, dead hands in my casket. 

 

I use it on average 7 times per round.

I gets me out of various trouble.

I can attack with it anywhere from about 80 and in.

I can play high shots or low spinning shots.

 

After my putter and driver, it is my third-most used club, and my 54 is a distant 4th. 

 

I would sooner take my 50 and 54 out for a 52.

 

[joostin]

2 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

The thing about opening, closing, manipulating a wedge to obtain a different loft is that the majority of golfers aren't very good at it. A few degrees either way is not bad, but more then that is going to cause most golfers trouble. Most golfers want to swing pretty consistent and the same way, because frankly, they don't practice enough to have confidence doing attaining the skill set. For more accomplished golfer, not really a problem. I have a 54*sw that I really like, high bounce and wide sole, that I use from other places around the green besides the sand, but if I need to attain a lob type shot I'm not going to open my 54*sw to 58 or 60* to make the shot, I'm going to pull out my 58*lw to perform that task. Could I make the lob shot with my 54*? Yes, but I wouldn't be as confident, the 58* is easier to use.  Some might ask "do you really need a driver when you have a 3w in the bag that travels almost as far?" My answer is no, you don't "need" a driver, but it sure makes things easier.

I'm with you.  The numbers I post are just reference and food for thought because I just wanted to figure them out and share.  I do play a LW for the same reason - it just makes certain shots more manageable.  Mostly play square to slightly open around the green, sometimes chip a little closed with toe down.

[ChipNRun]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:17 AM, Rapidcat said:

So your SW does double duty as a lob wedge.

 

Yes and no. Depends on where you play. Take a look at this Moorland Course hole in Myrtle Beach. If you had a shot from either arrow point, you would need 58* or higher to play to the pin.

 

I also had some  shots from waist-deep pot bunkers at Myrtle that still required more than a SW.

 

Reality of modern golf: You don't really need a lob wedge - until you do!

Edited January 5, 2021 by ChipNRun

[DaveGoodrich]

@joostin

 

Thanks for all your work quantifying this stuff.   I'm sure your calculations are correct, but I think the way you have set up the frame of reference for your model tends to reinforce a common misconception about how we add loft to a wedge.  Specifically, this diagram implies that there is a "target line" that is different than the direction the club is "facing," and that it is this difference that results in the increase in loft.   

 

 

But the modern ball flight laws tell us that the clubface can't really be open to the target line, because the clubface direction essentially determines the target line.  The shaft is layed back relative to this target line (toward the "northwest" in this diagram), which is how we increase the loft, not by hitting it a different direction than the club is facing.  Again, I'm know you understand that based on your previous response, and this is just a "frame of reference" issue.  But I do think using the term "target line" in this context potentially confuses the issue for folks who are trying to understand how "opening the face" actually works.   

 

For me, a conceptually more intuitive way of looking at it would be to hold the leading edge square to the (actual) target line, and then determine the horizontal shaft angle (looking down from the top, as we are in the pic above) as you vary the loft by laying the shaft back.  For a given amount of loft you want to add, that would give you an idea how far left you would have set your stance to keep the ball position reasonable with the club facing the target.    

 

With respect to the OP topic, I would argue that the farther left you have to set up (i.e. the more loft you are trying to add), the more difficult it will be to get consistent results, meaning that you are likely to have larger directional dispersion when you "open" a 56, rather than just hitting a 60 square.  

 

 

 

[joostin]

20 minutes ago, DaveGoodrich said:

@joostin

 

Thanks for all your work quantifying this stuff.   I'm sure your calculations are correct, but I think the way you have set up the frame of reference for your model tends to reinforce a common misconception about how we add loft to a wedge.  Specifically, this diagram implies that there is a "target line" that is different than the direction the club is "facing," and that it is this difference that results in the increase in loft.   

 

 

But the modern ball flight laws tell us that the clubface can't really be open to the target line, because the clubface direction essentially determines the target line.  The shaft is layed back relative to this target line (toward the "northwest" in this diagram), which is how we increase the loft, not by hitting it a different direction than the club is facing.  Again, I'm know you understand that based on your previous response, and this is just a "frame of reference" issue.  But I do think using the term "target line" in this context potentially confuses the issue for folks who are trying to understand how "opening the face" actually works.   

 

For me, a conceptually more intuitive way of looking at it would be to hold the leading edge square to the (actual) target line, and then determine the horizontal shaft angle (looking down from the top, as we are in the pic above) as you vary the loft by laying the shaft back.  For a given amount of loft you want to add, that would give you an idea how far left you would have set your stance to keep the ball position reasonable with the club facing the target.    

 

With respect to the OP topic, I would argue that the farther left you have to set up (i.e. the more loft you are trying to add), the more difficult it will be to get consistent results, meaning that you are likely to have larger directional dispersion when you "open" a 56, rather than just hitting a 60 square.  

 

 

 

Good points and thanks for adding to the concept.  For the club in the picture above, you'd have to raise the toe up 5° to have the face and ball project on the target line.  If you'd like to keep the leading edge square to the target line, page 2 of that pdf printout should work (for a righty) to eyeball the shaft along one of the angled lines.  Definitely getting overly technical for hitting a shot 🧐, but I think it's good reference if not just for curiosity.

 

I agree that trying to "set" a 56 into a 60, and expecting the consistency of a square 60 is not the way to go.  If anything the whole loft analysis can just show that bagging a 64° wedge doesn't seem crazy when we're probably lofting more than that sometimes, maybe even 80°!

[Cbfodalo]

With all these new jacked loft irons, I was playing Calaway Rogues with 4-AW.

 I was at bag max carrying 5 wedges, so I dropped 52deg.

 

I play the callaway sureout 2 60deg lob wedge. Full swing 80 yards. I love it. Short side sand shots, I just trust it.   I use aw for short chip. But any time I can get the lob in my hands my confidence rises. Especially out of deep rough. 

Full swing wedge

Pw 44deg  120yds

Aw 49deg  110yds

Sw 56deg 100yds

Lw 60deg 90 yds

 

I just ordered a set of mavrik max with following lofts.

 

Pw 43

Aw48

54 sure out 2

60 sureout 2

 

I dropped the gap wedge 52 and the 56 sureout because I ordered the mavrik max sw at 54. 

So now I can carry an extra fairway wood. 

Driver Mavrik max 9deg

3+ mavrik 

5w mavrik

5-sw mavrik max

60 deg lw sureout 2

 Now I can add another club.

 

Funny thing. I sold my rogue irons before the mavriks came in. I played 9 hole the other day with driver. 3 wood, 5 wood and lob wedge. Shot a 41.  

It was kind of fun having no irons to play with.  Driver or 3w off tee. 5wood or lob  worked pretty well.  What I really missed was my aw and 8iron. 

So yes, I like my lob wedge. 

Great for getting over bunkers or sticking inside 80yards. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BubbaBallesteros]

If you're a good enough wedge player you can make it work 100%. It's just gonna limit your shot style and selection. 

 

I cringe at the golfer who say "I needed a 60 or 64 because I always open the face and flop everything". Or at golfer who have 5 wedges in their bag.

 

 

[hybrid25]

It's almost like today's pitching and gap wedge aren't wedges really. It's like wedges don't begin until 50 degrees and higher.

[kstrong84]

I think you can do 52/58 if you wanted to carry only 3 wedges but I think not having more loft than 55/56 could cost you a stroke or two per round... sometimes the ball just needs to go up high and down soft!

[Tmass]

The answer is no I don't. But I rock a 56° I got off chipshop.com for $1  and I can do a lot with it as long as your not asking me hit it farther than 60 yards.

[95124hacker]

Dave Pelz, former NASA scientist and coach to many pros wrote a good book on this, and he advocates 4 wedges, highest being 64*.

[Double Dodger]

11 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

Dave Pelz, former NASA scientist and coach to many pros wrote a good book on this, and he advocates 4 wedges, highest being 64*.

Surprised more people on here haven’t read his books. But if they had it would sure cut down on the length of some of these topics. 
I carry 5 wedges. I like being prepared. The thing I laugh at is the guy with Xbrand tour bag filled with all Xbrand clubs and putter. I am sorry, I just don’t understand this kind of brand loyalty. I like what works and don’t care at all what brand it is.