Philosophical debate - fix a weakness or enhance a strength?

[SNIPERBBB]

Another thing about working on short game and taking pressure off your approach game.. the better your short game, the less fear you have of missing greens in the wrong spot or short sided. How many times on Tour do you see bogies from a short sided approach if they're facing a chip that that can't stop within 10ft of the hole? Not many

[bortass]

It will vary by circumstance or maybe I'm just doing it wrong, lol. In my case, I have room to improve in all aspects of my game. My index is about 24 and change. Arccos says my full swing is worse than my index, driving and approach are worse than most 24s. Putting is like a 16 and my short game is about 12. So not stellar at all. I'm focused on my weakness, full swing, even though the vast majority of advice is to work on short game. Yeah, I do pitch and chip on the range but I am not chipping with a game ball on a practice green. The rounds where I shoot a low number, for me, is when my full swing is on. 

 

If all aspects of my game were close to the same, I'd be working on the low hanging fruit which is probably trying to hone a strength a bit more, assuming I'm not near the cap on my skill level in that aspect of the game. I'm a short hitter, so it's unlikely I'll ever have the average 265 yard drive that scratch players do. I know my driving will not be a strength long term but I need to make it reasonable to give me a chance.

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

18 minutes ago, bortass said:

It will vary by circumstance or maybe I'm just doing it wrong, lol. In my case, I have room to improve in all aspects of my game. My index is about 24 and change. Arccos says my full swing is worse than my index, driving and approach are worse than most 24s. Putting is like a 16 and my short game is about 12. So not stellar at all. I'm focused on my weakness, full swing, even though the vast majority of advice is to work on short game. Yeah, I do pitch and chip on the range but I am not chipping with a game ball on a practice green. The rounds where I shoot a low number, for me, is when my full swing is on. 

 

If all aspects of my game were close to the same, I'd be working on the low hanging fruit which is probably trying to hone a strength a bit more, assuming I'm not near the cap on my skill level in that aspect of the game. I'm a short hitter, so it's unlikely I'll ever have the average 265 yard drive that scratch players do. I know my driving will not be a strength long term but I need to make it reasonable to give me a chance.

 

 

Don't confuse length with strength as it relates to this discussion as far as driving.  It's about reliability. 

[Luv2kruz]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

My friend is the same age as you. Good ballstriker, good player (cat 1), decent short game. He spent lockdown working on CHS with Speed sticks. He's gone from 105 to 110 mph in that time. Do that and you're improving that proximity to the hole. 

Yes, the speed stick thing is something that has interested me. Going to try it and see how long I can hold off inevitable distance decline due to age. 

[getitdaily]

On 4/22/2021 at 11:58 AM, Luv2kruz said:

I was thinking about improvement of various parts of my game. I'm a good ball striker and hit about 64% of my greens in regulation. I've struggled lately with my short game and although I have practiced and improved, I'm still not where I want to be. One school of thought is to practice and improve my weakness (i.e. short game). Another school of thought is to enhance my strength (i.e. ball striking), so that my weakness doesn't get tested as much and has less impact on my scoring. Which approach would you choose and why?

Improve the short game. You're hitting 11-12 greens per round.

 

How many greens are missed because of bad tee shots?

 

You will never hit 18/18 greens. Get that short game better so you can lean on it. 

 

Also, take a look.at the greens you miss and asses if you need to sharpen course mgmt too. Goes back to the missed greens because of bad tee shots. Are you missing greens short sided? How many greens are missed just by a terrible shot (fatted iron or blades iron)?

 

You can increase greens hit by improving course management, I guarantee. 

[fronesis]

Lots of great, detailed responses here, with focus on the statistics. 

 

I have an answer that may seem unsophisticated, but I think if you are a 1.2 and you are hitting that many greens, then the path toward improvement is more birdies. 
 

I’m also a single digit (about where you are) who hits a lot of greens, and I think that making birdies is not just about stats but about mental approach and attitude. I played a lot of competitive golf as a kid where the goal was to not make mistakes. My overall swing and tee-to-green game were pretty mediocre, but my short game and course management were excellent. So I played in the 2 or 3 spot on my high school team because I could shoot in the mid-70s in competition, while much “better” players on my team couldn’t. 

As a middle-aged guy, my swing and ball striking are leaps and bounds better. But I often find what holds me back is that I never really learned to attack the course and make birdies.  I’ve had to work a lot on being comfortable attacking the course, and frankly on just being comfortable with birdieing 3 out of 4 holes in a row. 

If you want to lower a 1.2 index (which is phenomenal, but the way!) then you need to post more rounds in the mid to high 60s. And you aren’t going to shoot 68 if you don’t make a pile of birdies. 

[mikpga]

Well your around "tour" average in the GIR department...

 

Perhaps work on getting closer to "tour" average in some short game stats...

 

It all depends on your goals however...

[naval2006]

If you are a really really solid ball striker but your short game sucks you’re going to get really pissed during the less than “perfect” rounds. A decent short game will take you far. 

[Luv2kruz]

23 minutes ago, mikpga said:

Well your around "tour" average in the GIR department...

 

Perhaps work on getting closer to "tour" average in some short game stats...

 

 

Regarding the first part. I wish:>. Those guys are playing from a lot farther back than I am. If I played those tees, my GIR would drop off a cliff. So kinda comparing apples and oranges. I'm playing tees that are appropriate for my skill level (6500-6700 yds) and that partially contributes to the high GIR. 

 

Regarding the second part, even though higher skill amateurs have a better chance to replicate 'tour' performance when it comes to the short game, the tour pros still don't hit is as close as you think. From 25 yards, the tour average is 9'7" and from 50 yards its 15'4". I'm not miles away from those kind numbers, so don't now how much more I can expect to get better. Even if I did, I think the incremental gains wouldn't be as much here as in other parts of my game.

[hoselpalooza]

13 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

How many times on Tour do you see bogies from a short sided approach if they're facing a chip that that can't stop within 10ft of the hole? Not many

 

i don't understand this, and it seems wrong based on how you've worded it.

 

from 10' the PGA tour putting average is 41.64%. so that means if they stop their short-sided chip at exactly 10' away they're still going to record bogey the majority of the time -- almost 60%.

 

did i misunderstand you or could you re-word what you're trying to say?

 

source: https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.348.html

[SNIPERBBB]

28 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

 

i don't understand this, and it seems wrong based on how you've worded it.

 

from 10' the PGA tour putting average is 41.64%. so that means if they stop their short-sided chip at exactly 10' away they're still going to record bogey the majority of the time -- almost 60%.

 

did i misunderstand you or could you re-word what you're trying to say?

 

source: https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.348.html

 

Yeah, not close to what I meant. Im saying unless they have the odd chip that they cant keep close to the hole, short sided chips arent the big bogey man that some make it out to be.

[Petethreeput]

13 hours ago, fronesis said:

Lots of great, detailed responses here, with focus on the statistics. 

 

I have an answer that may seem unsophisticated, but I think if you are a 1.2 and you are hitting that many greens, then the path toward improvement is more birdies. 
 

I’m also a single digit (about where you are) who hits a lot of greens, and I think that making birdies is not just about stats but about mental approach and attitude. I played a lot of competitive golf as a kid where the goal was to not make mistakes. My overall swing and tee-to-green game were pretty mediocre, but my short game and course management were excellent. So I played in the 2 or 3 spot on my high school team because I could shoot in the mid-70s in competition, while much “better” players on my team couldn’t. 

As a middle-aged guy, my swing and ball striking are leaps and bounds better. But I often find what holds me back is that I never really learned to attack the course and make birdies.  I’ve had to work a lot on being comfortable attacking the course, and frankly on just being comfortable with birdieing 3 out of 4 holes in a row. 

If you want to lower a 1.2 index (which is phenomenal, but the way!) then you need to post more rounds in the mid to high 60s. And you aren’t going to shoot 68 if you don’t make a pile of birdies. 

Not knowing the OP or his mindset, you may have nailed it.

 

There is a huge difference between playing to win and playing not to lose.  In my opinion, in any sport, when people discuss a guy/gal with the all the skills and the inability to get over the hump this is really what they are discussing.

[golfortennis]

Whichever effort yields the best result for the time invested.  Ie., if you were strength training for a sport, you may get your squat to say 400 lbs in a decent amount of time without a huge amount of changes everywhere else.  But, unless you were a competitive powerlifter/bodybuilder, going from 400lbs to 600lbs requires time, discipline and other factors that don't yield enough of a benefit to justify putting resources there, as opposed to practicing the sport.

 

Probably already been said, but if your missed greens are small misses, you may want to work on approaches, or maybe your drives are making approach shots tougher.  Or if your small misses are rarely getting up and down, then a mix.  If your missed greens are missed badly, then see the long game again.  

 

Short game practice only gives so much benefit when you're always chipping for bogey.  

 

 

[Nard_S]

On greens made for mortals, adequate up & down scrambling should be higher than tour averages. Every genuine in the flesh scratch guy I've played has percentages that surpass their GIR's.  They're above 75%. 100 feet in they are bullet proof.

[MelloYello]

In my experience, working to sure up my weaknesses helped me consistently beat out my friends, especially those that rarely practiced. I always knew that even if I were behind they'd find a way to screw up and lose their lead and my solid play would win out. 

 

But against good players, I find that one's strengths really matter. You need to be able to ride your strengths right up until the finish line. Having length and being a great ball-striker for example is wonderful, but for it to really be an asset you need to be able to trust that ball-striking will be there for 18 holes as well as in clutch situations. 

 

So to me, patching holes is always good but the sharpness of strengths is what often separates the better players. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by MelloYello