Trying to find the right irons - How come I can’t find much difference in irons or the right irons?

[bnperrone]

6 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Fitters have recommended the s300 and Modus 105s shafts. 

 

Those are really different, if for no other reason than the weight ranges. I'd be surprised if you found them to be interchangeable over any length of time. I'd just have a hard time hearing somebody recommend me for 130g or 105g shafts like it was all the same.  

[tsecor]

20 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

I’m trying to figure out what type of irons to game. Currently I hit my Nike Vr pro blades as good as my T100 irons. Based on theory the blades should be harder to hit and less forgiving. I haven’t found that to be the case. The most noticeable difference between the two irons are the Nikes have better turf interaction and the t100 irons might go further when I catch one really good. Otherwise no noticeable difference between the two sets. Both sets have s300 shafts. 
 

This isn’t meant to be a blade vs GI debate. Im just wanna to find a set of irons that a really like that will last for more than one season. Over the last 5 years I played: 

 

Mizuno MP4

Mizuno JPX 900

Srixon 785s

Ping I500

Nike Vr pro blades

Titleist T100

 

I have demo’ed a lot of other clubs but the list above won out during the fittings. 
 

Maybe the fittings are just really overrated? Maybe I just chose the club that I happen to be hitting the best on that particular day? Note I’ve been fitted by a top 100 fitter, at club champion and Edwin Watts. 
 

Maybe there is no one perfect iron or magic club. But I would sure like to find something that I really like. In the meantime I will keep trying new things in hopes I strike gold. Once a club hoe always a ........

Cheers 

The T100 iron is not a GI Iron....not sure why you would think that..........that being said, the T100-S, is amazing.....i could almost see it as a GI club because its much more "forgiving" than you would think on toe hits...

 

the other day i had 170 into a green....pulled my 7-iron and did not hit it flush. I could feel it on the toe....it was sailing towards the bunker that protected the flag.....at the last moment i said :that may make it" and it did!!   that would never have made it with my 712 CB......i was shocked.....5 footer for birdie.....missed.....but the irons perform great!

 

I can only compare them to other sets ive had and its the best set ive ever owned and thats sayinga lot because it took me forever to get rid of my 712 CB

[mogc60]

7 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

Good point. My Nikes pro blades and T100 both have S300 shafts. Fitters have recommended the s300 and Modus 105s shafts. 

Hmmmm... the 20 gram difference in shaft weight between these two shafts is a pretty broad fitting analysis. The feel would be night and day different. That being said, the clubhead needs to be something you are confident in, look, shape, sound, offset but I often think the sole is the most overlooked aspect and in my opinion the most important playability factor. If the sole doesn’t fit you, you probably won’t get the true impact feel you desire. 

[Pepperturbo]

After reading the OP's post, I would guess the "HOW COME" is he's commitment phobic.  The only way to overcome that and find a good set of irons is KNOW what you're looking for, but more important, have playing good golf a higher priority than another new set of irons. 

 

Kinda like dating a woman and breaking up after a year because it's not going anywhere.  But you don't know what you want or why it's not going anywhere.  Again, the OP didn't say anything specific, good or bad, just generalities, like turf interaction of one club and the other club extra distance if...  There is NO perfect set of irons like there is NO perfect woman.  It's about what best fits with what you have to offer.

 

Every person that wants to be a good golfer should know what club specs benefit his mechanics and then make a commitment to the club that has the spec.  Then there's this: each of us has to be honest with ourselves.

 

I have a reason for every set of irons, as well as why I replace them with the next set. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[bnperrone]

3 hours ago, tsecor said:

The T100 iron is not a GI Iron....not sure why you would think that..........that being said, the T100-S, is amazing.....i could almost see it as a GI club because its much more "forgiving" than you would think on toe hits...

 

A T100S is just a T100 with 2* stronger lofts...Both have the tungsten toe plugs (and heel plugs), so what you've experienced with toe strikes is a natural result of that, but you'd get the same benefit out of either one. The loft is also part of why it's longer than your 712.

 

I personally feel that the T100 / T100S and the MP-20 MMC strike the most amazing balance between performance and forgiveness for exactly what you described experiencing.

[tsecor]

That not exactly true. The entire iron is a slightly different design.  The weighting is different and its sole is engineered and shaped differently.   My 712’s have the exact same loft because i played them 2 degrees strong.  They feel much different from each other.  Never thought id kick my 712’s out but i agree with u. All are excellent

Edited May 4, 2021 by tsecor

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, bnperrone said:

 

A T100S is just a T100 with 2* stronger lofts...Both have the tungsten toe plugs (and heel plugs), so what you've experienced with toe strikes is a natural result of that, but you'd get the same benefit out of either one. The loft is also part of why it's longer than your 712.

 

I personally feel that the T100 / T100S and the MP-20 MMC strike the most amazing balance between performance and forgiveness for exactly what you described experiencing.

Actually, that's not true.  Yes, there are similarities between the clubs, but Titleist went back to the design board when they decided to add 2* of loft and come out with T100-s.  Adding 2* of loft or turning down the face changes how the leading edge and sole enter the turf and effects trajectory.  That's also partly why they stayed with traditional lofts on 620 series...turf interaction. 

[bnperrone]

20 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Actually, that's not true.  Yes, there are similarities between the clubs, but Titleist went back to the design board when they decided to add 2* of loft and come out with T100-s.  Adding 2* of loft or turning down the face changes how the leading edge and sole enter the turf and effects trajectory.  That's also partly why they stayed with traditional lofts on 620 series...turf interaction. 

But for the purpose of making it more or less forgiving than the T100, I see nothing to support that other than the fact that that person got more distance out of a mishit, which is thanks to...loft.

 

I'm assuming that they made them 2* stronger but reworked the leading edge and sole interaction to function the same as the T100. Are you saying that isn't the case? I wasn't suggesting they literally bend T100 irons stronger and sell them as the T100S model.

[Pepperturbo]

42 minutes ago, bnperrone said:

But for the purpose of making it more or less forgiving than the T100, I see nothing to support that other than the fact that that person got more distance out of a mishit, which is thanks to...loft.

 

I'm assuming that they made them 2* stronger but reworked the leading edge and sole interaction to function the same as the T100. Are you saying that isn't the case? I wasn't suggesting they literally bend T100 irons stronger and sell them as the T100S model.

Neither the T100 nor T100-s heads focus on forgiveness, that's a secondary benefit that comes from tungsten influence.  Like the forgiveness in my 620CB heads, there is some, but the cavity backs don't provide a measurable amount to buy them for that reason or the inclusion of Tungsten in 3-4 iron.  If that's important, buy t200 or t300s, etc.

 

If someone gets more distance out of miss hitting T100-s it has to do with head design as a whole, not just 2' loft.  Two degrees strong is not that big of a deal unless its purely struck using big SS.  I see guys hitting stronger lofted clubs as far as I hit my traditionally lofted clubs.  As I understand it T100-s the leading and trailing edge, camber of the sole, bounce, internals and weight were each redesigned to benefit from tungsten influence while maintaining trajectory from the addition of 2' of loft. 

[LowAndLeft32]

@Pepperturbo It looks like you know your Titleist Irons. I have the T100 irons but looking at maybe switching to the 620mbs. Any thoughts on the 620s? Others welcome to chime in as well. Thanks. 

[Pepperturbo]

5 minutes ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

@Pepperturbo It looks like you know your Titleist Irons. I have the T100 irons but looking at maybe switching to the 620mbs. Any thoughts on the 620s? Others welcome to chime in as well. Thanks. 

T100 irons are much easier to strike than 620mbs; even 620cbs (I have both sets) are more challenging than my prior 716cbs with PX 6.0.  I suspect the reason is 620cbs are more than ever like 620mbs.

 

620mbs demand a high degree of focus when I am over the ball.  Offset is near zippo on both sets, so I must insure my hands come though leading the ball, and must hit down hard to get appropriate spin n distance control.  There is NO sense of forgiveness.  If I miss hit a club I lose about 10yds, but the ball flies relatively straight unless I have a brain-dead moment. 

 

I am truly amazed at the spin from these irons.  I can take the ball in low and be confident spin will stop it.   The only issue is, even though I really like my graphite shafts, I am reconsidering switching back to PX.   

 

The most common occurrence for me is I think I hit the ball too hard, but the ball hits and stops, as if it's wrapped in Velcro. lol

[bnperrone]

6 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

As I understand it T100-s the leading and trailing edge, camber of the sole, bounce, internals and weight were each redesigned to benefit from tungsten influence while maintaining trajectory from the addition of 2' of loft.

Sorry to split hairs here, and I'm not being sarcastic, but are you making this statement as a comparison between T100 and T100-S? Because when I read the Titleist specs and marketing I see the exact same notes about both with regards to amount and placing of Tungsten, camber, trailing edge relief, etc.

 

Nowhere does Titleist suggest further differences between the T100 and T100-s beyond the re-worked loft (again, assuming they control for sole issues). I'm not saying they don't have further differences, but it would seem odd for Titleist to not specify any other changes.

[Pepperturbo]

Just now, bnperrone said:

Sorry to split hairs here, and I'm not being sarcastic, but are you making this statement as a comparison between T100 and T100-S? Because when I read the Titleist specs and marketing I see the exact same notes about both with regards to amount and placing of Tungsten, camber, trailing edge relief, etc.

 

Nowhere does Titleist suggest further differences between the T100 and T100-s beyond the re-worked loft (again, assuming they control for sole issues). I'm not saying they don't have further differences, but it would seem odd for Titleist to not specify any other changes.

Titleist, like other OEMs, no longer make public details specs like they did years back.  I used to get my club specs from the horses mouth.  And a buddy worked there, first building clubs for tour guys then later in custom dept.  He's since quit, but still connected, so he's still my source of trusted info.  I don't pay much attention to what's posted on their page, as it says nothing about clubs for fear a competitor will copy them.  A club designer actually told me that.  It's odd, if a competitor wants to know or steal specifics, they buy clubs and break them down.  Anyway, take care.

[bnperrone]

31 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Titleist, like other OEMs, no longer make public details specs like they did years back.  I used to get my club specs from the horses mouth.  And a buddy worked there, first building clubs for tour guys then later in custom dept.  He's since quit, but still connected, so he's still my source of trusted info.  I don't pay much attention to what's posted on their page, as it says nothing about clubs for fear a competitor will copy them.  A club designer actually told me that.  It's odd, if a competitor wants to know or steal specifics, they buy clubs and break them down.  Anyway, take care.

Understood. So, as a low single digit with pretty good ballstriking but the tendency to get toe-side, does one or the other suit that between the T100 and T100s? I think it's why the newer tungsten toe trend speaks to me. I've been in Mizuno since the late 90s and I think my MP20 MMCs are great, but at the same time I'm not sure if the sole geometry is my best fit. I don't want to get into T100s lofts because I don't want to get too far away from decades of ingrained carry distances, but if they put the CG closer to the toe then I think bending them back to T100 lofts would work well for me, including that additional bounce and reduced offset that that would create.

 

Obviously I'd need to experiment, but I'd be curious to hear what your source info suggests conceptually.

 

Cheers

[Rapidcat]

Ive read a least one review from a respected public source that stated that the T100-s may look the same as the T100 but has significant design and composition differences as per Pepperturbo's input - their conclusion: basically a different club.

[bnperrone]

7 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

Ive read a least one review from a respected public source that stated that the T100-s may look the same as the T100 but has significant design and composition differences as per Pepperturbo's input - their conclusion: basically a different club.

Do you remember the source of that review? I'm always open to being corrected when presented with new information, and that difference between them being described is intriguing. I'd love to check it out.

[Rapidcat]

1 hour ago, bnperrone said:

Do you remember the source of that review? I'm always open to being corrected when presented with new information, and that difference between them being described is intriguing. I'd love to check it out.

I'll see if I can find it. I read it a few months back when a buddy of mine was considering getting the T100-s.

 

Before reading that I'd just assumed they were a loft jacked T100.

[Rapidcat]

1 hour ago, Rapidcat said:

I'll see if I can find it. I read it a few months back when a buddy of mine was considering getting the T100-s.

 

Before reading that I'd just assumed they were a loft jacked T100.

@bnperrone I think that this is the article (wish I'd booked mark my reference a few months back):https://www.golfdigest.com/story/titleist-t100s-irons-provide-a-distance-option-for-better-players

 

The TXG guys cover it in more detail in this video - watch it all the way through as they go into weight distribution towards the end of the video.

 

[bnperrone]

7 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

@bnperrone I think that this is the article (wish I'd booked mark my reference a few months back):https://www.golfdigest.com/story/titleist-t100s-irons-provide-a-distance-option-for-better-players

 

The TXG guys cover it in more detail in this video - watch it all the way through as they go into weight distribution towards the end of the video.

 

Wow, thanks! I am precisely the player they describe for the T100s turned a bit weak. Gives me something to think about.

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, bnperrone said:

Wow, thanks! I am precisely the player they describe for the T100s turned a bit weak. Gives me something to think about.

You're welcome.

 

This forum is such a positive experience with generally good personal conduct and golfers helping other golfers, informative, enjoyable and a contrast to so much toxic social medial.

 

Makes you want to contribute.

[Texas Golfer]

I have three different sets of irons- blades, game improvement, and super game improvement.  When I get indecisive, I try the GI or SGI to re-convince myself that they really don’t make much difference and that the tradeoffs are not to my liking.

[LowAndLeft32]

2 minutes ago, Texas Golfer said:

I have three different sets of irons- blades, game improvement, and super game improvement.  When I get indecisive, I try the GI or SGI to re-convince myself that they really don’t make much difference and that the tradeoffs are not to my liking.

interesting feedback. What blades are you gaming and why? Thanks 

[Texas Golfer]

7 minutes ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

interesting feedback. What blades are you gaming and why? Thanks 

I use a set of Wilson Staff FG 51 irons that I bought new as sort of a college graduation gift to myself a long time ago. What I like about them is the heavy shaft weight (DG R400) but a light swing weight (D0 to D1).

Edited May 5, 2021 by Texas Golfer

[SylvesterLundgren]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:49 PM, tsecor said:

The T100 iron is not a GI Iron....not sure why you would think that..........that being said, the T100-S, is amazing.....i could almost see it as a GI club because its much more "forgiving" than you would think on toe hits...

 

the other day i had 170 into a green....pulled my 7-iron and did not hit it flush. I could feel it on the toe....it was sailing towards the bunker that protected the flag.....at the last moment i said :that may make it" and it did!!   that would never have made it with my 712 CB......i was shocked.....5 footer for birdie.....missed.....but the irons perform great!

 

I can only compare them to other sets ive had and its the best set ive ever owned and thats sayinga lot because it took me forever to get rid of my 712 CB

I’m willing to bet if there was a tungsten toe plug it would’ve been the same result. But I know what you’re saying about single piece CBs

 

[dugue4]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:08 PM, Pepperturbo said:

there is NO perfect woman

My wife is perfect.

 

 

Yes, I'm gonna show her this post.

Edited May 5, 2021 by dugue4

[North Butte]

5 minutes ago, dugue4 said:

My wife is perfect.

 

 

Yes, I'm gonna show her this post.

There's no perfect woman but I did manage to find the perfect wife FOR ME.

 

I believe there's also no perfect golf club. But with a little effort and a little luck you can find the perfect one FOR YOU.

[tsecor]

80's Wonder Woman is perfect.

[Pepperturbo]

16 hours ago, bnperrone said:

Understood. So, as a low single digit with pretty good ballstriking but the tendency to get toe-side, does one or the other suit that between the T100 and T100s? I think it's why the newer tungsten toe trend speaks to me. I've been in Mizuno since the late 90s and I think my MP20 MMCs are great, but at the same time I'm not sure if the sole geometry is my best fit. I don't want to get into T100s lofts because I don't want to get too far away from decades of ingrained carry distances, but if they put the CG closer to the toe then I think bending them back to T100 lofts would work well for me, including that additional bounce and reduced offset that that would create.

 

Obviously I'd need to experiment, but I'd be curious to hear what your source info suggests conceptually.

 

Cheers

Won't be seeing him for a while, he's traveling.   IMO -neither is set up for a miss-tendency.  If your tendency is toe-side, maybe a simple lie adjust will remedy that.  But that might be too simple. lol  I know years back it fixed my ball striking.

 

Interesting you brought that up.  The set of irons I played from 2006 to 2017+ have slightly flat lie angles compared to more upright 620's.  It's only a degree though the set but 1+ may just be too much.  My ball striking is still good but like so much in my life, I want perfection. 

 

It's also my belief OEMs are taking irons too upright.  My optimal ball striking and distance comes from having my swing plane a bit flatter.  So, I've decided to test my theory and have lie angles flattened to match my prior irons, and see it there's noticeable improvement.  

[Pepperturbo]

4 hours ago, North Butte said:

There's no perfect woman but I did manage to find the perfect wife FOR ME.

 

I believe there's also no perfect golf club. But with a little effort and a little luck you can find the perfect one FOR YOU.

Nice way to take the intended meaning of a word out of context to make an unrelated point.

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Nice way to take the intended meaning of a word out of context to make an unrelated point.

Pepper (if I may call you Pepper) with all due respect you yourself are quite adept at picking one word or phrase out of a post and using it as a jumping off point for a long tangent about your own personal characteristics, accomplishments and beliefs. Nothing in the world wrong with that, of course. It's all among good friends here🙏