Golf Digest 100 Greatest Public Courses

[eboettne]

On 4/25/2022 at 12:12 PM, ShanksForeNothing said:

I'm looking to put together a Wisconsin golf trip so I'm excited to hear your impressions.  Leaning towards Sand Valley/Mammoth and Whistling Straits.

Will report back, SV/MD were fun(sandbox was actually my favorite) but it sounds like they've dialed in the customer experience to be even better because when I visited it was lacking.  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt as it was newer and early May so I'm sure they were in the early stages of figuring it all out. I'm planning to get back out in 2-3 years once Sedge Valley and The Lido open up.

[tjl48]

Just got back from playing the 4 Kohler courses. None of them did anything for me. Atleast I now know I'm not a Pete Dye fan. 

 

I think Whistling Straits is extremely over rated. Course is about as fun as a kick in the nuts. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by tjl48

[StudentGolfer4]

23 minutes ago, tjl48 said:

Just got back from playing the 4 Kohler courses. None of them did anything for me. Atleast I now know I'm not a Pete Dye fan. 

 

I think Whistling Straits is extremely over rated. Course is about as fun as a kick in the nuts. 

I urge you not to judge all of Pete Dyes work by what you saw up there!

 

I haven’t played Whistling Straits so I can’t comment on it specifically, but a lot of Pete’s early work is more subdued and absolutely fantastic. 
 

Crooked Stick

Harbor Town

The Golf Club

Sawgrass

The Ocean Course

The Honors Course

Casa Del Campo

Etc

 

I understand that a lot of his work is a bit too manufactured but most of that came later in his career. The courses he was able to create on flat and rather featureless land is second to none. Sawgrass may be the very best example of this. 

 

 

[mci711]

13 hours ago, tjl48 said:

Just got back from playing the 4 Kohler courses. None of them did anything for me. Atleast I now know I'm not a Pete Dye fan. 

 

I think Whistling Straits is extremely over rated. Course is about as fun as a kick in the nuts. 

 

I am a Pete Dye fan. I enjoyed Whistling Straits - not as much as say The Ocean Course. That being said I think Black Wolf Run was one of the most overrated courses I have ever played. Never in my life would I choose to play it over The Irish course at Whistling Straits. And wouldn't even think about playing it over either course at Sand Valley or Erin Hills. 

 

I tee off at TPC Sawgrass in a couple of hours to check another Pete Dye course off. Haven't been "nervous" for around in a while (Old Course - St Andrews 3 years ago). Not sure why, but I am really amped to play this course today and I've played most of the top public golf courses. 

[tjl48]

16 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I urge you not to judge all of Pete Dyes work by what you saw up there!

 

I haven’t played Whistling Straits so I can’t comment on it specifically, but a lot of Pete’s early work is more subdued and absolutely fantastic. 
 

Crooked Stick

Harbor Town

The Golf Club

Sawgrass

The Ocean Course

The Honors Course

Casa Del Campo

Etc

 

I understand that a lot of his work is a bit too manufactured but most of that came later in his career. The courses he was able to create on flat and rather featureless land is second to none. Sawgrass may be the very best example of this. 

 

 

 

I just moved to NC, so the Ocean Course and Harbor Town are on my radar. I do want to hit them at some point. Just might have moved behind a couple other NC courses. 

 

3 hours ago, mci711 said:

 

I am a Pete Dye fan. I enjoyed Whistling Straits - not as much as say The Ocean Course. That being said I think Black Wolf Run was one of the most overrated courses I have ever played. Never in my life would I choose to play it over The Irish course at Whistling Straits. And wouldn't even think about playing it over either course at Sand Valley or Erin Hills. 

 

I tee off at TPC Sawgrass in a couple of hours to check another Pete Dye course off. Haven't been "nervous" for around in a while (Old Course - St Andrews 3 years ago). Not sure why, but I am really amped to play this course today and I've played most of the top public golf courses. 

 

WS was just such a grind. Every single shot felt like I had nowhere to miss. It's just overly penal. I shot a decent score, but it just wasn't an enjoyable round for me. Only way I'd want to go back is with my game firing on all cylinders for a test. 

 

And agree there. Rivers might have been the last course I'd play again out of the 4. I liked the Irish, and thought MV was pretty good as well. 

 

Now that I have wrapped up my public golf tour of WI I can declare Erin Hills as my favorite of the bunch, and it's not particularly close. 

[callawayjay]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:31 AM, david.c.w said:

I find the discussion around Spyglass fascinating.  Played it for the first time this summer and I loved it.  Way better than Spanish Bay.  While holes 2-5 get the "OMG we are on the coast" discussion, I think the rest of the course stands on its own.  Is every hole perfect?  No, but it is still a great course.  It belongs on the list inside the top 20.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gets bashed because of the green fee. Nothing more really. It’s a steep price but not enough to keep me off of it 2x a year. It’s owned by PB. They charge what they can get. Yes. It’s high. But my gosh is it pristine 
 

if it hosted a major the winning score would be par. It’s a true test and I will defend it vehemently 

[callawayjay]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:17 PM, Mullenboy said:

If only you knew a Sand Hills member.  🙂

Don’t threaten me with a good time!

[Argonne69]

35 minutes ago, callawayjay said:

It gets bashed because of the green fee. Nothing more really. It’s a steep price but not enough to keep me off of it 2x a year. It’s owned by PB. They charge what they can get. Yes. It’s high. But my gosh is it pristine 
 

if it hosted a major the winning score would be par. It’s a true test and I will defend it vehemently 

 

 

Spyglass has one of the most boring stretches of closing holes in the top 100. Embarrassing. 

 

[callawayjay]

13 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Spyglass has one of the most boring stretches of closing holes in the top 100. Embarrassing. 

 

So does cypress point. 
 

SH has a drivable par 4 17th that could be set up to entice big hitters to go for it. Pin positions on 18 could make it tough as well. 
 

Pebble sucks because of inland holes!

 

spyglass sucks because of closing holes!
 

No one’s opinions are wrong 

Edited April 30, 2022 by callawayjay

[mci711]

I just finished my round at sawgrass. I really enjoyed it. Thought it was much easier than I expected. I only played the blues, so obviously not super far back or anything. But compared to Whistling Straits or The Ocean Course or even French Lick I thought Sawgrass played pretty straight forward. If it was 300-400 I'd have no problem playing it while in the area, but at $700-$1000 (after caddie) it is pretty hard to say I'll definitely be back. I felt after playing Pebble i'd pay the greens fee again the next day if given the opportunity.

 

Sunday pin, took the Rickie Fowler route. Somehow ended up right of the flag and left of the water. Missed the putt 😂

 

Also going from the Ritz Carlton in Amelia Island to the Sawgrass Marriott is rough - the hotel on property needs a major update. It is a shame staying here is the easiest way to get a tee time.

[asommers1441]

Was able to check Gamble Sands and Chambers bay off the list. Hoping to check two more courses off in June just havent figured out what ones yet. 

[jvincent]

20 hours ago, tjl48 said:

 

WS was just such a grind. Every single shot felt like I had nowhere to miss. It's just overly penal. I shot a decent score, but it just wasn't an enjoyable round for me. Only way I'd want to go back is with my game firing on all cylinders for a test. 

 

 

That's the thing with most Dye courses. They are visually intimidating but in reality there is actually a lot of room to miss. I didn't find Straits overly penal off the tee at all.

[StudentGolfer4]

20 hours ago, callawayjay said:

So does cypress point. 
 

SH has a drivable par 4 17th that could be set up to entice big hitters to go for it. Pin positions on 18 could make it tough as well. 
 

Pebble sucks because of inland holes!

 

spyglass sucks because of closing holes!
 

No one’s opinions are wrong 

I agree that opinions vary when it comes to golf, but I have yet to hear anyone claim Cypress has a boring finishing stretch of holes!

 

Yes, I have heard and understand the criticism around the 18th. Holes 15-17 are fantastic and breathtaking. To try to compare the finishers at Spyglass to Cypress is absurd. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by StudentGolfer4

[StudentGolfer4]

21 hours ago, callawayjay said:

It gets bashed because of the green fee. Nothing more really. It’s a steep price but not enough to keep me off of it 2x a year. It’s owned by PB. They charge what they can get. Yes. It’s high. But my gosh is it pristine 
 

if it hosted a major the winning score would be par. It’s a true test and I will defend it vehemently 

I think Spyglass gets bashed because the best holes are to start the round. 1-5 might be the best opening stretch in golf. The rest is pretty uninspiring. 
 

I can’t remember if it was on this board or a different, but the idea of switching the front and back 9 has came up before. @Argonne69 what would you think of this idea? It would most likely require shuttling players to and from the first tee but I’m intrigued by the idea. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by StudentGolfer4

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I think Spyglass gets bashed because the best holes are to start the round. 1-5 might be the best opening stretch in golf. The rest is pretty uninspiring. 
 

I can’t remember if it was on this board or a different, but the idea of switching the front and back 9 has came up before. @Argonne69 what would you think of this idea? It would most likely require shuttling players to and from the first tee but I’m intrigued by the idea. 

 

I don't think flipping them would do it. The opening holes would simply be the 10th through 14th. It would need a major rerouting. 

 

[callawayjay]

7 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

I agree that opinions vary when it comes to golf, but I have yet to hear anyone claim Cypress has a boring finishing stretch of holes!

 

Yes, I have heard and understand the criticism around the 18th. Holes 15-17 are fantastic and breathtaking. To try to compare the finishers at Spyglass to Cypress is absurd. 

A little. Yes. 
 

but no one likes PB inland holes. Then with the same topography no one likes spyglass inland either. 
 

the only blah hole for me on the SG 18 is 13. 
you can re do some tee boxes on 12 and 15 making those holes more of a challenge. You don’t need breathtaking closing holes to make it great. Pasatiempo ends with a par 3 for crying out loud and everyone loves that place. 
 

18 at cypress blows. 15-17 doesn’t. 
 

18 at sawgrass is 16 at spyglass but with water and with the dogleg going left to right instead. The approach on sg 16 is way more difficult than sawgrass 18. 
 

perhaps if somehow sg could pry itself from PB it could be re routed. 
 

St. Andrews 18 is lame

hell, the 18th and 9th at Augusta get no ripping because that’s blasphemy. When truth be known they are both very average. 
 

lots of great courses have lame 18s IMO

 

riveria

colonial

tpc Scottsdale 

bethpage black

Olympic Club

 

PB has the money to make a change to 18 on SG that would really work

 

plant trees making the tee shot tighter. Bring the boxes back angled towards the houses and put a small pond on the left side of the fairway making it precarious

 

make a huge poke clear it. 
 

or just leave it and realize outside of the $$$ paid to play it, it’s pretty incredible. 

 

 

[callawayjay]

One final note. Lots of courses that host majors have rather boring closing holes as mentioned above. I feel they get a pass because of the battles fought on it. Augusta, St Andrew’s, and riviera come to mind. 
 

The only battles on spyglass are a couple of days every February on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and a bunch of hacks trying to break 100 all other days. 

[mci711]

10 hours ago, callawayjay said:

 

but no one likes PB inland holes. Then with the same topography no one likes spyglass inland either. 

 

 

 

I like the inland holes at Pebble. I actually really like the 14-16 stretch. I think it is a really fun 3 holes. I like the climb up 11, 12 is a good par 3, nothing special. The Pebble hate makes no sense in my mind. But everyone has what the like and what they don't. 

 

[ShanksForeNothing]

Looks like I'm going to have a chance to a round in the Ozarks in early August this year.  Few people weighed in earlier in the thread I think on this area.  For those who have been, would you play Ozarks National, Paynes Valley, or Buffalo Ridge?

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, ShanksForeNothing said:

Looks like I'm going to have a chance to a round in the Ozarks in early August this year.  Few people weighed in earlier in the thread I think on this area.  For those who have been, would you play Ozarks National, Paynes Valley, or Buffalo Ridge?

 

Paynes wasn't open when I visited. Ozark National is no slouch, but I actually preferred Buffalo Ridge. 

 

[eboettne]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:32 PM, tjl48 said:

Just got back from playing the 4 Kohler courses. None of them did anything for me. Atleast I now know I'm not a Pete Dye fan. 

 

I think Whistling Straits is extremely over rated. Course is about as fun as a kick in the nuts. 

 

Well that's not what a guy wants to read 48 hours before flying out to Wisconsin to play all 4 WS courses. Saving grace I guess is I'm playing Erin Hills twice if I don't like these. I wonder if skill level affects your enjoyment of these courses as well. For example I'm curious to see if I(0-1 handicap) enjoy them more than my buddy(8-9 HCP) I'm playing with.  

Edited May 2, 2022 by eboettne

[vallygolf]

8 minutes ago, eboettne said:

 

Well that's not what a guy wants to read 48 hours before flying out to Wisconsin to play all 4 WS courses. Saving grace I guess is I'm playing Erin Hills twice if I don't like these. I wonder if skill level affects your enjoyment of these courses as well. For example I'm curious to see if I(0-1 handicap) enjoy them more than my buddy(8-9 HCP) I'm playing with.  

Sometimes I think higher handicaps like these courses more, especially if they arent too long off the tee, and dont have long forced carrys.  Often the real penal teeth is the long just miss into no mans land where double comes into play.

[mci711]

22 minutes ago, eboettne said:

 

Well that's not what a guy wants to read 48 hours before flying out to Wisconsin to play all 4 WS courses. Saving grace I guess is I'm playing Erin Hills twice if I don't like these. I wonder if skill level affects your enjoyment of these courses as well. For example I'm curious to see if I(0-1 handicap) enjoy them more than my buddy(8-9 HCP) I'm playing with.  

 

I think Pete Dye courses kill higher handicap players to the point they are almost unfair for them. There are 100s (1000s? 😂) of bunkers that won't be in play for you at WS that will be for someone who isn't good off the tee. The problem is the the bad shots for a bad golfer at a place like WS are going to compound. Most places won't have a bunker 125 yards off the tee where are high handicap just topped their drive. WS does. Now they are hitting 2 from a bunker with 250-300 yards into a par 4 with 100 bunkers in front of them lake Michigan to the right and high stuff to the left.  

[eboettne]

7 minutes ago, mci711 said:

 

I think Pete Dye courses kill higher handicap players to the point they are almost unfair for them. There are 100s (1000s? 😂) of bunkers that won't be in play for you at WS that will be for someone who isn't good off the tee. The problem is the the bad shots for a bad golfer at a place like WS are going to compound. Most places won't have a bunker 125 yards off the tee where are high handicap just topped their drive. WS does. Now they are hitting 2 from a bunker with 250-300 yards into a par 4 with 100 bunkers in front of them lake Michigan to the right and high stuff to the left.  

That type of stuff drives me insane, you punish a player that's already having a tough go of it. 

 

Played Southern Dunes in Orlando a few months ago and 1 hole in particular sticks out, there was a deep bunker about 100 yards off the tee right in front of the fairway.  That bunker will never be in play for me but my dad who plays golf about 2-3/year hits a crappy tee shot and is compounded by having to hit out of that stupidly placed bunker that's kicking a player when he's down.  I wonder what the architects are thinking when they put those in.

[So_Cal]

14 hours ago, callawayjay said:

A little. Yes. 
 

but no one likes PB inland holes. Then with the same topography no one likes spyglass inland either. 
 

the only blah hole for me on the SG 18 is 13. 
you can re do some tee boxes on 12 and 15 making those holes more of a challenge. You don’t need breathtaking closing holes to make it great. Pasatiempo ends with a par 3 for crying out loud and everyone loves that place. 
 

18 at cypress blows. 15-17 doesn’t. 
 

18 at sawgrass is 16 at spyglass but with water and with the dogleg going left to right instead. The approach on sg 16 is way more difficult than sawgrass 18. 
 

perhaps if somehow sg could pry itself from PB it could be re routed. 
 

St. Andrews 18 is lame

hell, the 18th and 9th at Augusta get no ripping because that’s blasphemy. When truth be known they are both very average. 
 

lots of great courses have lame 18s IMO

 

riveria

colonial

tpc Scottsdale 

bethpage black

Olympic Club

 

PB has the money to make a change to 18 on SG that would really work

 

plant trees making the tee shot tighter. Bring the boxes back angled towards the houses and put a small pond on the left side of the fairway making it precarious

 

make a huge poke clear it. 
 

or just leave it and realize outside of the $$$ paid to play it, it’s pretty incredible. 

 

 

Riviera has a lame 18?  Explain that one to me. 

[mci711]

1 minute ago, So_Cal said:

Riviera has a lame 18?  Explain that one to me. 

This whole post you're replying to is absolute nonsense. I didn't read the whole thing at first and went back and did. Just shocking stuff. 

[klebs01]

47 minutes ago, eboettne said:

That type of stuff drives me insane, you punish a player that's already having a tough go of it. 

 

Played Southern Dunes in Orlando a few months ago and 1 hole in particular sticks out, there was a deep bunker about 100 yards off the tee right in front of the fairway.  That bunker will never be in play for me but my dad who plays golf about 2-3/year hits a crappy tee shot and is compounded by having to hit out of that stupidly placed bunker that's kicking a player when he's down.  I wonder what the architects are thinking when they put those in.

I would disagree that this bunkers are inappropriate. Even poor players should get the thrill of executing the carry over a hazard occasionally.  If they fail, they don’t lose a ball, just have to hit a bunker shot. It’s really boring and lazy to put all bunkers where only the scratch player should have to deal with them. 
 

Is WS overdone? Perhaps, but it was designed specifically to test the best players and was built in the 90s where manufactured extravagance was in style. 

[So_Cal]

59 minutes ago, eboettne said:

That type of stuff drives me insane, you punish a player that's already having a tough go of it. 

 

Played Southern Dunes in Orlando a few months ago and 1 hole in particular sticks out, there was a deep bunker about 100 yards off the tee right in front of the fairway.  That bunker will never be in play for me but my dad who plays golf about 2-3/year hits a crappy tee shot and is compounded by having to hit out of that stupidly placed bunker that's kicking a player when he's down.  I wonder what the architects are thinking when they put those in.

The thrill of golf to me is challenging hazards and overcoming them.  If the architect did a good job and the golfer is playing the correct tees there is usually a safer route at the cost of a stroke. 

[jvincent]

2 hours ago, eboettne said:

 

Well that's not what a guy wants to read 48 hours before flying out to Wisconsin to play all 4 WS courses. Saving grace I guess is I'm playing Erin Hills twice if I don't like these. I wonder if skill level affects your enjoyment of these courses as well. For example I'm curious to see if I(0-1 handicap) enjoy them more than my buddy(8-9 HCP) I'm playing with.  

 

Ignore @tjl48, I think all 4 of the Kohler courses are good. And don't take it personally @tjl48, I realize your opinion is as valid as anyone elses.

 

IIRC I was around an 8 or 9 index when I played and had no issues playing the 6600-ish tees. As I said earlier in the thread Straits is visually intimidating but actually has a lot of room. A caddie will definitely help.

[tjl48]

2 hours ago, eboettne said:

 

Well that's not what a guy wants to read 48 hours before flying out to Wisconsin to play all 4 WS courses. Saving grace I guess is I'm playing Erin Hills twice if I don't like these. I wonder if skill level affects your enjoyment of these courses as well. For example I'm curious to see if I(0-1 handicap) enjoy them more than my buddy(8-9 HCP) I'm playing with.  

I'm up to a 3 from a 1. I shot a 79 which from the tees we played and for how I've been playing is about right. My weakness is off the tee especially right now. Fighting a hook which showed itself more than once during the round. I was +5 through 6, and +2 over the final 12. And I didn't take a caddie. That I am sure hurt the overall experience a little. 

 

I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I'm glad I played them. Just don't really have an itch to go back. And you have Erin Hills. Love that place. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by tjl48