Manuel de la Torre grip - top hand in the palm

[erikro]

Hi all,

 

I know there is a huge thread regarding his teaching but I had a specific question about his grip. I typically hold the club in my fingers and he teaches the club in the palm of the top hand. What has been everyone’s experience with this? It feels so different but I am going to stick with it. It feels like my wrists are not working properly and that I have no strength. I have his book and understand his reasoning. I was just curious about how others went about adopting the grip and how long it took to feel comfortable. 
 

thank you 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 hours ago, erikro said:

Hi all,

 

I know there is a huge thread regarding his teaching but I had a specific question about his grip. I typically hold the club in my fingers and he teaches the club in the palm of the top hand. What has been everyone’s experience with this? It feels so different but I am going to stick with it. It feels like my wrists are not working properly and that I have no strength. I have his book and understand his reasoning. I was just curious about how others went about adopting the grip and how long it took to feel comfortable. 
 

thank you 

How much in the palm does he say? Is there a picture of his explanation?

[Golfbeat]

8 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

How much in the palm does he say? Is there a picture of his explanation?

 

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:44 AM, Golfbeat said:

 

 

 

I'd steer away from this to be honest. A palmy lead hand grip leads to clubface control issues and a lot less power. 

[erikro]

11 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by erikro

[SEP1006]

11 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I'd steer away from this to be honest. A palmy lead hand grip leads to clubface control issues and a lot less power. 

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Once I swapped to the Jumbomax Ultralight XL grips and started holding the club in the palm instead of the fingers. My dispersion and face control definitely improved. Also picked up about 5 - 8 yards throughout the bag.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I'm going the opposite direction of this due to hand pain I was developing. More in the fingers and it has gone away. Used the following as a guide and have seen promising results so far:

 

 

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

14 hours ago, SEP1006 said:

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Once I swapped to the Jumbomax Ultralight XL grips and started holding the club in the palm instead of the fingers. My dispersion and face control definitely improved. Also picked up about 5 - 8 yards throughout the bag.

You're one person. Not good advice for most. 

[dlygrisse]

If you want to swing like he teaches you need to grip it like he teaches.  If you want to grip it differently then find a swing that matches.  

[getitdaily]

Grip in the palm will help decrease face rotation. Whether you need that or not really depends. It may or may not decrease power. Again, it all depends.

 

Don't make a singular move without understanding how it will impact the rest of your swing. Tinker with it, but remember that the golf swing is all about matchups. If you leave the face open too much already then a palm grip may not be advisable. 

[SEP1006]

10 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You're one person. Not good advice for most. 

 

 

As are you, and no more important or significant than anyone else. Good advice for "most" as you state depends on the individual. And not for me or you to decide.

 

Just offering my experience for others to either take or leave.

[dlygrisse]

The main takeaway I get from that clip is that the palms should face each other, you don't want one hand to be weak and the other strong.  In terms of holding it in the palm, he is talking about locking the grip under the heel pad, not clear out in the fingers, which would not be compatible with his swing concept.  What he teaches is a very neutral grip.  

1.  you all are overthinking it.

2.  if you don't agree move on to another swing pattern, this one isn't for you.  By disagreeing you are just giving bad advice to anyone who is working on the MDLT swing.  The grip he teaches is the one you need to use if you follow his method.  If you change the grip you are NOT using his method, it wont work.  Period, end of discussion.  

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, SEP1006 said:

 

 

As are you, and no more important or significant than anyone else. Good advice for "most" as you state depends on the individual. And not for me or you to decide.

 

Just offering my experience for others to either take or leave.

I'll just leave this here. I can't overstate the importance of what Ben Hogan demonstrates. 

[The Pearl]

If you are posting in an MDLT thread, nobody gives a crap about Ben Hogan's grip.

 

Manny's grip is neutral.  Both V's point to the center of the chest.  When you grip the club, set the club down at address and open the hands, both palms should face each other.  Pretty simple. With this grip, if swing the club as Manny teaches it will fly straight and long. 

 

By the way, if you were to take a lesson with Manny and you were a competent and experienced golfer and your grip was "not perfect" he usually would not mess with it if he felt it did not interfere with executing his concepts. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

14 hours ago, The Pearl said:

If you are posting in an MDLT thread, nobody gives a crap about Ben Hogan's grip.

 

Manny's grip is neutral.  Both V's point to the center of the chest.  When you grip the club, set the club down at address and open the hands, both palms should face each other.  Pretty simple. With this grip, if swing the club as Manny teaches it will fly straight and long. 

 

By the way, if you were to take a lesson with Manny and you were a competent and experienced golfer and your grip was "not perfect" he usually would not mess with it if he felt it did not interfere with executing his concepts. 

The OP was wondering why his wrists didn't work properly and he had felt like he no strength. I gave him an answer. 

[erikro]

On 12/16/2021 at 11:52 PM, dlygrisse said:

If you want to swing like he teaches you need to grip it like he teaches.  If you want to grip it differently then find a swing that matches.  

I agree and that’s what I am working on. 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

The OP was wondering why his wrists didn't work properly and he had felt like he no strength. I gave him an answer. 

An answer….yes.  
 

Necessarily the correct answer…..unknown.  

[tthomasgolfer605]

 

This is the best I've seen it explained and demonstrated. 

 

[The Pearl]

This thread is off track because the OP has misread Manuel's description of the grip of the top hand form his book.

 

Point 1:  For those of you new to MDLT or unfamiliar with Manuel, one of the most important features of his teaching is he is VERY SPECIFIC with words. Every single word in his book and every single word on his lesson tee has an exact meaning.  

 

Point 2:  Manny does not "teaches the club in the palm of the top hand" as the OP has suggested.  The book reads (Chap. 1, pg 14, 1st Ed) "The club rests DIAGONALLY ACROSS the palm of the high hand.  If the club is placed too far forward the fingertips, when the holding pressure is applied, the club will be rotated by the fingers and the clubhead will end up closed."

 

Point 3:  Manny clearly demonstrates the proper top hand grip in the video posted upthread.  Start about the 4:55 mark.  In fact he states:  "The pad of the left hand (top hand) is usually towards the top of the shaft."  In fact if you freeze the video you can clearly see how to grip the club with the top hand at about the 5:33 mark.

 

Point 4:  thomasgolfer605 is refuting a concept that Manny never makes.

 

Perhaps somebody more sophisticated could post screen shots.

 

 

[The Pearl]

Follow Up:   Manny reviewed my grip briefly when I took my lesson years and years ago.  My top hand was fine. My bottom hand was really strong so when he did the grip check as he did in the video, my club head would close considerably. He had me make the right hand more neutral with the V pointing to the center of the chest.   

 

With my proper grip as approved by Manny in person, I can easily replicate what Hogan suggest as a check.

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 hours ago, The Pearl said:

This thread is off track because the OP has misread Manuel's description of the grip of the top hand form his book.

 

Point 1:  For those of you new to MDLT or unfamiliar with Manuel, one of the most important features of his teaching is he is VERY SPECIFIC with words. Every single word in his book and every single word on his lesson tee has an exact meaning.  

 

Point 2:  Manny does not "teaches the club in the palm of the top hand" as the OP has suggested.  The book reads (Chap. 1, pg 14, 1st Ed) "The club rests DIAGONALLY ACROSS the palm of the high hand.  If the club is placed too far forward the fingertips, when the holding pressure is applied, the club will be rotated by the fingers and the clubhead will end up closed."

 

Point 3:  Manny clearly demonstrates the proper top hand grip in the video posted upthread.  Start about the 4:55 mark.  In fact he states:  "The pad of the left hand (top hand) is usually towards the top of the shaft."  In fact if you freeze the video you can clearly see how to grip the club with the top hand at about the 5:33 mark.

 

Point 4:  thomasgolfer605 is refuting a concept that Manny never makes.

 

Perhaps somebody more sophisticated could post screen shots.

 

 

I apologize if I misinterpreted what Manny states. I'm assuming the OP is doing this which is not a good thing. 

[juststeve]

My top hand grips goes diagonally from inside the second joint of my left hand to a point just below the pad of that hand.  Right hand much more in the fingers.  I learned to hold the club that way from Manny and never seen a reason to change.

[skraly]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:04 AM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I'll just leave this here. I can't overstate the importance of what Ben Hogan demonstrates. 

This is the same grip MDL is using.  He just cautioned not to get the grip too much in the fingers, so that is perpendicular to the extended fingers.  Just a little mis-interpretation of the video.

[erikro]

2 hours ago, juststeve said:

My top hand grips goes diagonally from inside the second joint of my left hand to a point just below the pad of that hand.  Right hand much more in the fingers.  I learned to hold the club that way from Manny and never seen a reason to change.

Would the circled picture of Hogan’s hand in the post above be an accurate depiction of what you are describing? 
 

Thank you very much,

Erik

[juststeve]

22 hours ago, skraly said:

This is the same grip MDL is using.  He just cautioned not to get the grip too much in the fingers, so that is perpendicular to the extended fingers.  Just a little mis-interpretation of the video.

Very much the same allowing for the difference in our hand sizes.

 

Steve

 

 

[The Pearl]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:02 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I apologize if I misinterpreted what Manny states. I'm assuming the OP is doing this which is not a good thing. 

 

My apologies also.  I read through the thread too quickly and jumped to conclusions resulting in too harsh a tone that I really did not intend it to be.

[Andygolderson]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:11 PM, SEP1006 said:

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Once I swapped to the Jumbomax Ultralight XL grips and started holding the club in the palm instead of the fingers. My dispersion and face control definitely improved. Also picked up about 5 - 8 yards throughout the bag.

"That escalated quickly"

 

Very interesting video, I believe the answer is within the 12-15 minute section. (Not sure if anyobody actually watched it) I would comment that it's a "palmmy grip", however, he's not advocating to hold it in your palm, just more towards the top and most importantly, depending on your hands. He also states if it aint broken, don't fix it.

On 12/14/2021 at 5:49 AM, erikro said:

It feels like my wrists are not working properly and that I have no strength.

my takeaway is that you could do anything you want with your grip, providing you have a balance between them which doesn't affect the clubface, while maintaining comfort. I agree to this. i don't follow a conventional "has to be in the fingers everyone must do this" kind of grip.

 

Sounds like you are trying to force something that's not comfortable to you. The grip will affect the wrists, resulting in your range of motion, which i imagine relates to your loss of strength ?

Long and short thumb also affects this, as well as how strong you turn the hand - a stronger grip results in less wrist movement - your tendons will tighten up. Look at the video around 30minutes, where he refers to the cupping.

[slantsflood]

jack nicklaus says hello to this thread.

[chipa]

According to this video Manny says let the hands dangle from the wrists. Also, in the same video posted above Manny teaches that the wrists must move freely. This has probably been the most difficult thing for me to learn. I have small hands and have adopted very much a finger grip in order to be able to have the wrist range of movement Manny recommends.

 

 

[Wade Patton]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:52 PM, dlygrisse said:

If you want to swing like he teaches you need to grip it like he teaches.  If you want to grip it differently then find a swing that matches.  

 

Yes, but I don't understand his grip instructions that way. I'm not palming anything.

 

I have seen the online seminars and have his book and videos. The only change I made, from my Hogan-esque grip was to weaken my right hand a little bit. I can't even tell it now, feels completely natural. Both v's are closer to my center. 

 

As I understand his grip instruction  it's all about balance between the opposing palms, such that the centrifugal forces of of the swing don't rotate the club (as it can with an unbalanced grip).

 

He also teaches that there can be no universally correct grip position because we are all different and sometimes even our own hands feel differently. I say find the balance for your hands, as he demonstrates, and work with that.

 

His imperative to check your grip every time, before address, is all the thought I give to grip now. Then it's all about picking the target line for the shot shape and setting up to that alignment. And swing!

 

I'm only a recent convert, and love it. I'm not there yet, but getting closer, and thrilled with every practice. My game blew up a month ago, and then I found Manny. I have been learning the Jones/Torre way ever since. That's my take. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Wade Patton
fixed a thing or two for clarification.