Dr Kwon

[Hilts1969]

14 hours ago, me05501 said:

I think stance width is a good way to control the amount of shift. I’m always worried about overdoing it, but if my stance is stable it just works out. 

Good point as a tall guy with a narrow stance I often feel the pressure outside my left foot. Need to remember to widen stance and keep the ball forward. With driver especially the aoa can be too steep otherwise and balance is a problem. Not to mention getting the head past the ball 

[wantstonotsuck]

 

This video clicked with me and seemed to blend well with Dr. Kwon's teachings.

Edited February 18, 2022 by wantstonotsuck

[glk]

Two helpful drills if you are working being kwonified and making not just an active backswing but a mature one too.   

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaCfM-GoM4Z/

 

also if you are in the Cleveland area go see Todd.   He has been kwonified for several years and has hosted a number of in person certification with dr. Kwon

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaIM7OaFloA/

 

 

[munchies2x]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:54 PM, munchies2x said:

 

For this, I am going to quote both Monte and Mile that said to take this slow, build the swing slowly and then take it to the longer club (i.e. driver). Going straight for speed and expecting huge speed gains would be counterproductive.

 

My current strategy is:

1. Drills at home (i.e. kettle bell, rope drill, step drills). Also doing some gym work to strengthen my core, legs, etc.

2. Practice with slower tempo at driving range or practice area, and build the speed slowly

3. Use one of the step drills before hitting a shot at the course (have to keep reminding myself of this)

4. Hit the shot and then evaluate the outcome

 

I found my iron shots are getting better but still a bit inconsistent with the driver but I am going to stick to my strategy for a while and see if that works...

 

Wonder what everyone strategy is if they choose to incorporate the Kwon's swing into their own...

 

Replying to my own post earlier this month to provide a quick update. So after using the strategy above for 2-3 weeks (a bit sporadic and not according to the schedule unfortunately), just a few days ago something just clicked and I managed to hit at least a club longer than my typical average! The majority of the shots surprisingly found target and I don't feel I was losing control at anytime during my swing. Granted this was during a practice round so no pressure at all. I guess it will take time to make this repeatable and take it to the competition, but it works!

 

The key for me is the more forceful back swing but using the body not the arms, ensuring the back swing is on plane (depending on whether playing a fade or draw), mature back swing and then push the lead leg hard during the back swing to stop the body from "swinging forward".

 

Obviously, it is still early days so we'll see, but I just want to share my experience so far and hope that helps anyone that is taking similar journey.

[leekgolf]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:22 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Some (many) people need to feel arms down to to link up and max out their speed.  Some need to feel out.  Some need to feel forward.  

 

Coming in late to this, but man that's a great post. As a student, at times I wonder should the arms be going Down? Out? Forward? 

 

When I'm wondering about this - usually on the range- I'm thinking, "What's the right answer?" 

 

I guess it depends, huh?

[zacgolf]

Another great drill

 

 

[RichieHunt]

On 2/9/2022 at 2:21 AM, zacgolf said:

Interesting video.

 

 

 

I haven't been keeping up with the thread, but I did find this video to be one of the best videos Brendon has ever done.  Particularly when he shows the differences in him vs. Drew Cooper throwing the medicine ball.

 

Yesterday was the first time I touched a club in 2 months and my right shoulder and elbow weren't exactly participating.  But outside of a bad little stretch the shots were quite good.  

The biggest thing that scrambles my brain is the concept of the effort and speed in the backswing and then 'being patient' in the downswing.  When I started off I worked on really ramping up the speed of the backswing with a full turn.  But eventually I found myself not being patient enough...opening up too soon, particularly the with the hips and not drifting forward enough.  

 

Then when I worked on being patient, I didn't have enough 'effort' in the backswing and the backswing was too slow and not enough turn.  

 

When I pieced those properly together, I hit the ball quite well.

 

 

 

 

RH

[GolfTurkey]

Bryson is obviously the poster boy for a PGA Tour player that has applied some of these principles and gained a bunch of speed without losing his game. Dylan Frittelli Is another guy who has boosted speed without losing the plot but it’s tough to do as an adult with an established swing pattern.

 

It will be interesting to see a new generation of tour players in say 5-10 years who have basically swung like this their whole (golfing) life. If people are concerned about courses being rendered obsolete now, just wait until 140 mph club head speed is the new 120.

[me05501]

I had a casual winter round with a buddy yesterday and worked on taking the SHURN feel to the course.

 

As I've learned in the past, there's some trust involved with this approach. It's a great example of having to let go of what feels like "control" in order to achieve results that are better than what you'd normally hope for. 

 

When faced with a shot that fits my eye, or with minimal trouble in play, I can shift/turn, shift/turn with confidence and the ball tends to go right where I aim it with more distance than I'm used to seeing. 

 

Then I'll come up on a more challenging shot and be afraid to commit. Typically I'll still shift/turn back on those shots but fail to really commit to the re-centering move with very odd results.

 

I think the re-centering move just feels a little risky when I'm anxious about where the ball might go. Hopefully the more I practice it and learn to trust it the more automatic it should become. 

 

[Outlawx88]

Sorry if this is a super silly question. Does anything change with the grip or wrist c0ck at the top?

[me05501]

33 minutes ago, Outlawx88 said:

Sorry if this is a super silly question. Does anything change with the grip or wrist c0ck at the top?

 

It seems like the general idea is to make sure your grip is fundamentally sound and then try not to think as much about what the arms are doing at any given point in the swing. Kwon's focus is on getting the natural body movements correct and letting the arms and hands follow similar to the way the rope does in his rope drill. 

 

Check out the medicine ball throw vids. That's pretty much what you want your arms doing. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by me05501

[Nels55]

  

41 minutes ago, Outlawx88 said:

Sorry if this is a super silly question. Does anything change with the grip or wrist c0ck at the top?

 I believe that Dr. Kwon can get pretty technical regarding grip, plane and arm movements but there is not much video of him doing that.  He does sometimes work with students on getting the plane correct often while they are doing the rope drill.  I suspect that if a student had a really bad grip of some sort he would probably address that before starting the drills.

 

There is a glimpse into the more technical side on the 'Get Unstuck' video:

 

[leekgolf]

I'm trying this. I'm not sure if I'm doing much correctly. I saw the Todd Casabella ig post @glk linked earlier, and I think it helped a lot. I'm nowhere near a point where I can make the "angry backswing" Dr. Kwon suggested in one of the videos. 

 

Has anyone else had real challenges with the shift to the target side leg/foot at p3?

 

Any ideas on learning and adopting this?

 

What other challenges have people had trying to learn Dr. Kwon's method? 

 

 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

I had a casual winter round with a buddy yesterday and worked on taking the SHURN feel to the course.

 

As I've learned in the past, there's some trust involved with this approach. It's a great example of having to let go of what feels like "control" in order to achieve results that are better than what you'd normally hope for. 

 

When faced with a shot that fits my eye, or with minimal trouble in play, I can shift/turn, shift/turn with confidence and the ball tends to go right where I aim it with more distance than I'm used to seeing. 

 

Then I'll come up on a more challenging shot and be afraid to commit. Typically I'll still shift/turn back on those shots but fail to really commit to the re-centering move with very odd results.

 

I think the re-centering move just feels a little risky when I'm anxious about where the ball might go. Hopefully the more I practice it and learn to trust it the more automatic it should become. 

 

LOL sounds familiar!  The re-centering move does seem to be magic but difficult for me to produce.  First I have to get the backswing correct which is not trivial as I trained in the complete opposite of the correct movement for so many years.  Trusting the move is something that needs work.  Thinking of making a mature backswing seems to be the best approach for me, if I try to force the re-centering I often get some interesting shots that are not conducive to good scoring.

 

I find that the best way to get past choking on more difficult shots is to have a mindset of attacking the shot.  An aggressive attitude seems to work better for me.  The trick for me is to combine the attitude with a complete focus on making a good swing while blocking out the target and the situation as much as possible.  Some folks do much better with target focus but that does not seem to work for me on full shots at this time.  Target focus works really well while putting but not so much on full swings.  I trust my putting stroke though...  I am hoping to get my full swing to the point where I can trust it like I do my putting stroke.  Not sure if that will ever happen!  Just going to keep plugging away...

[Nels55]

3 minutes ago, leekgolf said:

I'm trying this. I'm not sure if I'm doing much correctly. I saw the Todd Casabella ig post @glk linked earlier, and I think it helped a lot. I'm nowhere near a point where I can make the "angry backswing" Dr. Kwon suggested in one of the videos. 

 

Has anyone else had real challenges with the shift to the target side leg/foot at p3?

 

Any ideas on learning and adopting this?

 

What other challenges have people had trying to learn Dr. Kwon's method? 

 

 

I would say that the biggest challenge for me is doing the drills correctly.  I find that constant videoing of my drill attempts is the only approach that can keep me somewhat on track.  LOL that combined with constantly watching and re-watching the training videos for inspiration and correct mechanics seems to be my best approach. 

 

This approach is working in some ways as I am hitting the ball on the course pretty well and actually outstandingly well for me at times and I am no longer searching and changing swing mechanics looking for the magic move like I have done for the last 55 years or so.

 

Based on my track record this will not last but maybe this time I have finally found something that works for me.  I do believe that Dr. Kwon's teaching is correct and that there is nothing better out there.  Time will tell...

[RobertBaron]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

I would say that the biggest challenge for me is doing the drills correctly.  I find that constant videoing of my drill attempts is the only approach that can keep me somewhat on track.  LOL that combined with constantly watching and re-watching the training videos for inspiration and correct mechanics seems to be my best approach. 

 

This approach is working in some ways as I am hitting the ball on the course pretty well and actually outstandingly well for me at times and I am no longer searching and changing swing mechanics looking for the magic move like I have done for the last 55 years or so.

 

Based on my track record this will not last but maybe this time I have finally found something that works for me.  I do believe that Dr. Kwon's teaching is correct and that there is nothing better out there.  Time will tell...

I feel very similarly about the constant searching and tinkering and the all around ups and downs of being able to swing great one day and then completely losing the swing the next. But so far (about 1.5 months now), Dr Kwon's teachings have been incredibly rock solid for me. In fact, as a constant tinkerer of the swing, whenever I do begin to tinker things start to go awry so I just return to the basics of his ideas and I'm back to great consistent solid contact. This is probably the longest I've gone not feeling the urge to try and find something new. Reprogramming my hit impulse from arms to body has changed everything.

[vandyfan]

Dr Kwon's teachings showed me that I had worked so hard to get rid of my early extension (both backswing and downswing) that I had stopped moving off the ball altogether. I had no lateral movement in my swing and, as such, I wasn't hitting the ball anywhere. Now that I move off the ball to start and then truly through the ball (after re-centering mid backswing) I am easily swinging 5-8 mph faster without really trying. This results in 15-20 yards increase in carry off my driver, at least. It is truly a great feeling. 

[glk]

4 hours ago, leekgolf said:

I'm trying this. I'm not sure if I'm doing much correctly. I saw the Todd Casabella ig post @glk linked earlier, and I think it helped a lot. I'm nowhere near a point where I can make the "angry backswing" Dr. Kwon suggested in one of the videos. 

 

Has anyone else had real challenges with the shift to the target side leg/foot at p3?

 

Any ideas on learning and adopting this?

 

What other challenges have people had trying to learn Dr. Kwon's method? 

 

 

I started the recentering abaout 2 years ago - I easily overdid the shift to the left etc.   what I learned was that an old iteach intent is all that is necessary - move trail shoulder toward lead foot in backswing.    Have to extend, and the process of moving the trail shoulder makes a full turn and this turn results in recentering - no explicit pushing off needed - and amg has a lesson where they tell the guy the same thing.  
 

so get that shift to start and then the recentering happen because you make a mature backswing - active really helps.  Good thing was I had already been doing the forward swing to during practice.   But like everybody else actually seeing and hearing dr kwon has helped me better understand and practice the motion.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Blai33GlPz7/

 

and this Dana clip really helps with how the takeaway works and making that turn to see that trail scapula peek at the top.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CGqCDO0ixqL/
 

 

 

[me05501]

16 minutes ago, glk said:

I started the recentering abaout 2 years ago - I easily overdid the shift to the left etc.   what I learned was that an old iteach intent is all that is necessary - move trail shoulder toward lead foot in backswing.    Have to extend, and the process of moving the trail shoulder makes a full turn and this turn results in recentering - no explicit pushing off needed - and amg has a lesson where they tell the guy the same thing.  
 

so get that shift to start and then the recentering happen because you make a mature backswing - active really helps.  Good thing was I had already been doing the forward swing to during practice.   But like everybody else actually seeing and hearing dr kwon has helped me better understand and practice the motion.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Blai33GlPz7/

 

and this Dana clip really helps with how the takeaway works and making that turn to see that trail scapula peek at the top.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CGqCDO0ixqL/
 

 

 

 

Thanks, good thoughts there. I find that Monte's "zipper away" feel results in a bit of a recentering move too that is usually well-timed. 

 

Shifting too far off the ball is definitely a risk and it's hard to save that shot. In all things, moderation. 

[Nels55]

58 minutes ago, glk said:

I started the recentering abaout 2 years ago - I easily overdid the shift to the left etc.   what I learned was that an old iteach intent is all that is necessary - move trail shoulder toward lead foot in backswing.    Have to extend, and the process of moving the trail shoulder makes a full turn and this turn results in recentering - no explicit pushing off needed - and amg has a lesson where they tell the guy the same thing.  
 

so get that shift to start and then the recentering happen because you make a mature backswing - active really helps.  Good thing was I had already been doing the forward swing to during practice.   But like everybody else actually seeing and hearing dr kwon has helped me better understand and practice the motion.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Blai33GlPz7/

 

and this Dana clip really helps with how the takeaway works and making that turn to see that trail scapula peek at the top.    https://www.instagram.com/p/CGqCDO0ixqL/
 

 

 

Yes.

 

I noticed the same thing while doing drills when I thought of the trail scapula turn that I learned from AMG+.  I find that if I think of my trail shoulder moving towards the target during the backswing / early transition I can get a reasonable re-centering that is about right.  I have a tendency to slide my lead hip past my lead foot which is very bad and can be caused by over doing the re-centering.  The trail shoulder move along with the pressure or kick of the lead foot back into the body during the through swing seem to provide a reasonable movement for me.  

 

I find that there is a definite improvement in contact along with more ball speed when I start to get this right...

[GungHoGolf]

 

I've recently gone down the Mach 3 Speed Training rabbit hole, and there are many complementary concepts between Dr. Kwon and Mach 3.

 

Here's are a couple of their videos - they have a bunch on their channel. A key concept is the feeling of throwing an upper cut through and past impact, and maximizing the speed out in front (similar to Dr. Kwon's instruction), never directing speed at the ball.

 

 

 

 

[leekgolf]

On 12/31/2021 at 9:30 PM, Hilts1969 said:

 

There is one main problem with this in 2022(happy new year folks) there is no conventional instruction. I have seen more swing the club move off the ball ground force etc in the last few years than low and slow.

 

People think I am critiquing Dr kwon but I ain't. All I'm saying is it ain't new, ground breaking or a huge step forward. 

 

Unless someone can give me one thing that makes this a game changer then I ain't changing my outlook. Its another guy selling the best way to swing a metal stick at a ball. We are searching for a magic move or moves that don't exist.

One of the things that really sticks in my mind, long ago @MonteScheinblumposted or said in a video was that he really only teaches a few things, but he says them in many ways to allow people to understand. I will tell you when I went to one Monte's traveling clinics, he found a way to keep me from misunderstanding him. It probably took a number of his different messages all teaching the same thing( slow learner). 

 

I doubt ground forces are new. I think the concept has been around for a long time. I would bet many golfers came across this on their own at times and teachers also taught this, but didn't label it "ground forces."

 

It kind of points out the real challenge, at least for me. Golfers can take lessons from really good instructors and then misunderstand what they are trying to teach to us; then go off doing the wrong things. I think that's a real risk with a lot of videos, unless they were made for the student.

 

In my experience, a video lesson is very different than watching a video made for anyone to watch and try to learn.

 

 

 

 

[Hilts1969]

15 hours ago, me05501 said:

 

Thanks, good thoughts there. I find that Monte's "zipper away" feel results in a bit of a recentering move too that is usually well-timed. 

 

Shifting too far off the ball is definitely a risk and it's hard to save that shot. In all things, moderation. 

 

I like the zipper away move a lot it helps prevent a couple of bad things if you try and recentre with your core. I found you can easily lose your shoulder tilt(become flat)and move the upper body and head too far laterally.  It's a good way to regain some flexion(not stand up) and hold the right hip back. 

 

Pretty much all golfers I have seen have a slight tilt away from the target in transition.

[RobertBaron]

I probably had my best range session ever today. Hit ~150 balls and only really had 1 unacceptable strike, a heely driver. It’s almost like once you find the right rhythm Kwon preaches the swing is damn near automatic. Even with the shorter stuff like punches, pitches and chips… freaking automatic. 
 

Im basically all in on Dr Kwon at this point. If there’s a cult out there, I want to join!

[Nels55]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:49 AM, blackbdmillsaps said:

Dr Kwon's teachings showed me that I had worked so hard to get rid of my early extension (both backswing and downswing) that I had stopped moving off the ball altogether. I had no lateral movement in my swing and, as such, I wasn't hitting the ball anywhere. Now that I move off the ball to start and then truly through the ball (after re-centering mid backswing) I am easily swinging 5-8 mph faster without really trying. This results in 15-20 yards increase in carry off my driver, at least. It is truly a great feeling. 

 

This video explains why Dr. Kwon teaches as he does.  His analysis of ground force and movement pattern is something that I have never seen before:

 

I don't know that anyone else has taught this exact movement pattern?  Maybe so as there is a lot of stuff out there but I am not sure that anyone else can back their teaching up in the manner described in the video?  Knowing that there is sound reasoning behind what Dr. Kwon teaches is a big plus for me.  LOL I have seen a lot of claims of 'scientific' golf swings in the past but I don't recall anyone backing up the claim in detail like this.

[zacgolf]

 

[Duffer Mark]

If I am pushing ground with my trail foot in the back swing, as Dr. Kwon teaches, isn't that going to straighten my leg?

[ThinkingPlus]

8 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

If I am pushing ground with my trail foot in the back swing, as Dr. Kwon teaches, isn't that going to straighten my leg?

Yes.  The trail side should extend during the backswing.  Trail side leg will straighten almost fully (knee will remain soft with a very slight bend).

[glk]

20 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

If I am pushing ground with my trail foot in the back swing, as Dr. Kwon teaches, isn't that going to straighten my leg?

the trail knee will extend but only between 5-10* - certainly some don't straighten much at all (not recommend unless you are Koepka, etc) and some will straighten more - if you straighten it  too much you lose the ability to load the trail glute and a major source of power - keep it flexed and you restrict your ability to make a full turn (not to mention that this can lead to lower back issues).

 

Tyler ferrel has a little drill you can do with a box or off a step in the house.    

 

Stand on box/step with trail foot, then step and rotate to feel the glute loading - you'll extend the knee a bit.    Can reverse this and stand on box/step with lead foot and step down a rotate too.

 

[RobertBaron]

34 minutes ago, Duffer Mark said:

If I am pushing ground with my trail foot in the back swing, as Dr. Kwon teaches, isn't that going to straighten my leg?

Yes. As if you are kicking the ground with your trail foot. 
 

ETA: but shouldn’t lock out. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by RobertBaron