distance debate

[clevited]

7 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Watched golf pre pro v and big ti, watched golf post pro v and big ti. It was a better game pre pro v & big ti.

. 

 

 

"Watched golf pre pro v and big ti, watched golf post pro v and big ti. It was a better game pre pro v & big ti, in my opinion."

 

Fixed it, you are welcome.

[kasting333]

7 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Watched golf pre pro v and big ti, watched golf post pro v and big ti. It was a better game pre pro v & big ti.

. 

 

Do you think this nostalgia for years past is unique to the sport? 

This whole argument has been diluted like any other issue these days. You are on one side and everyone on the other side is wrong. Then the single issue gets used as a crutch by one of the sides and start attributing other fringe issues as being related and the other won’t concede it’s a problem at all worth addressing. 
 

Either way the USGA has proven themselves not to be capable of solving simple issues and much less a complex issue like this one. 

[golfer07840]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:09 AM, phizzy30 said:

Seems like the only ones complaining about the ball going too far are the old heads and the plinkers.  Bryson and Cam Champ are regularly hitting 330+ off the tee yet they're currently not winning tournaments.  In fact Bryson is still out with his injuries and Champ has been struggling all season long.  Sure, distance gives a player an advantage of having shorter irons into the greens, but that's about it.  They still gotta get their proximity to the hole close enough and make their putts.  If distance was such a huge advantage, 90+% of the wins on all tours would be dominated by the guys that are 180+ ball speed. 

Worth reposting....

 

 

[golfer07840]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:44 PM, gvogel said:

The distaste here for the USGA is really quite remarkable.

 

This is nothing. You should go check out the Handicap threads to see how much vitriol there is for the USGA. 

[golfer07840]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:25 PM, smashdn said:

You got guys that drive it 330+.  They may not win every week or even make birdie or better regularly when they do drive it 330 but doing so has far reaching impacts on courses and perhaps even courses not yet built.

 

 

[golfer07840]

On 7/9/2022 at 7:15 PM, ChipStrokes said:

that’s fair. i acknowledged my post was anecdotal, but that has been my experience.

 

i got paired up with a dad and son today. the kid was 15 and absolutely striping the ball all day long.  16th hole had a creek crossing the fairway around 260. he flew it easily and left himself about 80 yards in. 

In all seriousness, to be able to do that is a skill. For some reason the dopey Usga wants to limit that skill. 

[golfer07840]

49 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

"Watched golf pre pro v and big ti, watched golf post pro v and big ti. It was a better game pre pro v & big ti, in my opinion."

 

Fixed it, you are welcome.

He was all....

[ChipStrokes]

9 minutes ago, golfer07840 said:

In all seriousness, to be able to do that is a skill. For some reason the dopey Usga wants to limit that skill. 

it’s a serious skill. skills are celebrated in every sport, except for golf. 

 

let’s raise the NBA rim to 12’ because there are a few guys who can hang on it by their elbow now. 

 

🙄🙄

[TLUBulldogGolf]

15 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

it’s a serious skill. skills are celebrated in every sport, except for golf. 

 

let’s raise the NBA rim to 12’ because there are a few guys who can hang on it by their elbow now. 

 

🙄🙄

 

This is just not true, the best players are all celebrated. There are tons of guys that can hit it a lot farther than tour players and they are relegated to a side show. I feel like this discussion has swung around from pro-rollback people saying driving distance is too big of a factor to the anti-rollback saying it is and oh by the way it's good. 

[Nard_S]

55 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

t’s a serious skill. skills are celebrated in every sport, except for golf. 

The gear has reduced the need for those skills, old game was a different game and yes, a better one. The RB's had a choice, more John Daly's or more Tiger's. We got John's and it's the gear that spearheaded it. Oldman Tiger run circles around young guys on skills, if he didn't smash his leg to bits, it would as evident as 2019. Who is the new Tiger, Trevino or Faldo or Seve or Norman even? Not a one. Not a shot maker in the bunch. They don't need to be that now. 

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

it’s a serious skill. skills are celebrated in every sport, except for golf. 

 

let’s raise the NBA rim to 12’ because there are a few guys who can hang on it by their elbow now. 

 

🙄🙄

We should also push the fences out to 500 feet for the MLB as well.  Not sure how you feel about PEDs in sports, but l wouldn't mind if they lifted all the bans on them.  From former athlete to athlete,  we both know what really goes on behind closed doors.  

[ChipStrokes]

2 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Not sure how you feel about PEDs in sports, but l wouldn't mind if they lifted all the bans on them.  From former athlete to athlete,  we both know what really goes on behind closed doors.

im fine with it. make them legal and then we have a truly level playing field, as opposed to now where we only have an illusion of one. 

[phizzy30]

Just now, ChipStrokes said:

im fine with it. make them legal and then we have a truly level playing field, as opposed to now where we only have an illusion of one. 

Thank you.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:20 AM, phizzy30 said:

This is pretty much the same thing my +4 cap buddy(played mini tours) and a client/buddy of mine that plays on the Mackenzie Tour said.  So kudos to you coming from a player from the highest levels of the game.  For reference the two guys I mentioned are 170 and 180 ball speed respectively and neither want the ball dialed back. 

 

I don't even disagree with most of the suggestions but why contrive the course to combat ever increasing distance when we can just make the ball go somewhat shorter? If I can hit it far and only a little offline I get more penalized than a shorter hitter? I honestly don't see the relevance of ball speed, I'm 175 and I think it probably needs to be dialed back. So what?

Edited July 11, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[phizzy30]

Just now, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

I don't even disagree with most of the suggestions but why contrive the course to combat ever increasing distance when we can just make the ball go somewhat shorter? If I can hit it far and only a little offline I get more penalized than a shorter hitter? I honestly don't see the relevance of ball speed, I'm 175 and I think it probably needs to be dialed back. So what?

My ball speed is the same as yours.  All I have to say to your post is that you have your opinion on this and I have mine because it's pointless to debate this topic because nobody is right or wrong here. 

[gvogel]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

My ball speed is the same as yours.  All I have to say to your post is that you have your opinion on this and I have mine because it's pointless to debate this topic because nobody is right or wrong here. 

Thousands of old golf courses measuring less than 7,000 yards say that a roll back is needed.  Not to mention the 13th hole at Augusta National.

[Simpsonia]

11 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Thousands of old golf courses measuring less than 7,000 yards say that a roll back is needed.  Not to mention the 13th hole at Augusta National.

 

First off, source on this. Second, are there even more than a few hundred courses that have hosted tour events in the last 40 years? How can there be thousands of of course owners clamoring for a distance rollback for the PGA Tour where 7k yards is actually needed? Is the 13th hole at Augusta now sentient and asking for a distance rollback as well? To my knowledge Augusta management has never weighed in on a distance rollback, hard to believe that the 13th broke faith with management on that one. 

 

Or are you just aggregating every 6k yard municipal course out there and bemoaning the fact that they would not be eligible to host a tour event because they aren't 7k+ yards? 

[So_Cal]

4 hours ago, golfer07840 said:

In all seriousness, to be able to do that is a skill. For some reason the dopey Usga wants to limit that skill. 

Incorrect.  What we are saying is that skill should be rewarded.  Distance is so easy now that the lesser skilled players are not as separated from the highly skilled players as they used to be.  Modern tech rewards mediocre drivers.  

Edited July 11, 2022 by So_Cal
Spelling

[ThinkingPlus]

16 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Thousands of old golf courses measuring less than 7,000 yards say that a roll back is needed.  Not to mention the 13th hole at Augusta National.

They are just grass, sand, and water. Not shrines to be worshipped.

[Soloman1]

Everyone plays the same holes, regardless of the length of each.

 

The final scores are still three digit numbers. Lowest three digit number wins.

 

Let's lengthen bowling lanes while we're at it. Bowlers are too strong now and bowling balls too high tech.

 

Perfect games increased 20% after introduction of reactive resin bowling balls. Roll back the bowling ball!

 

(I know nothing about bowling, but Google turned me into an expert in 30 seconds.)

[smashdn]

5 hours ago, golfer07840 said:

In all seriousness, to be able to do that is a skill. For some reason the dopey Usga wants to limit that skill. 

I mean Sam Snead averaged around 270 but it's completely normal for a 15 year old to easily fly a water hazard (err penalty area) at 260.

[smashdn]

57 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

They are just grass, sand, and water. Not shrines to be worshipped.

It's architecture no different than Monticello or Notre Dame.  Appreciated and protected.  Worshipped is a bit of a stretch.

 

Donald Ross isn't designing new courses.  We better take care of the ones that are out there if we value them.

[gvogel]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

 

First off, source on this. Second, are there even more than a few hundred courses that have hosted tour events in the last 40 years? How can there be thousands of of course owners clamoring for a distance rollback for the PGA Tour where 7k yards is actually needed? Is the 13th hole at Augusta now sentient and asking for a distance rollback as well? To my knowledge Augusta management has never weighed in on a distance rollback, hard to believe that the 13th broke faith with management on that one. 

 

Or are you just aggregating every 6k yard municipal course out there and bemoaning the fact that they would not be eligible to host a tour event because they aren't 7k+ yards? 

Forget Tour courses.  There are plenty of up and coming high school and college golfers for whom a 6K course is a pushover.  Let's shorten the driving equipment so that they can be adequately tested.

[Simpsonia]

5 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Forget Tour courses.  There are plenty of up and coming high school and college golfers for whom a 6K course is a pushover.  Let's shorten the driving equipment so that they can be adequately tested.

 

Less than half the current PGA Tour cardholders average driving distance over 300 yards, but apparently now every high school golf team across the country is full of 15 year old bombers who put Rory and company to shame. Maybe instead of equipment we should be checking the local water supply for PEDs. 

 

Clearly anecdotes and not data are ruling the roost here. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

48 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Everyone plays the same holes, regardless of the length of each.

 

The final scores are still three digit numbers. Lowest three digit number wins.

 

Let's lengthen bowling lanes while we're at it. Bowlers are too strong now and bowling balls too high tech.

 

Perfect games increased 20% after introduction of reactive resin bowling balls. Roll back the bowling ball!

 

(I know nothing about bowling, but Google turned me into an expert in 30 seconds.)

 

No one disagrees with the first two statements. All sports progress, golf has unique considerations for that progression. 

 

 

[golfer07840]

24 minutes ago, smashdn said:

I mean Sam Snead averaged around 270 but it's completely normal for a 15 year old to easily fly a water hazard (err penalty area) at 260.

 

Once again, you guys keep going back to the ole days of Yore to make a point. 

 

Perhaps we should roll back technology in all aspects of life. 

 

I should recommend to my boss that we dump all the computers and infrastructure to make our jobs easier and "roll back" to typewriters. 

 

 

[golfer07840]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

 

First off, source on this. Second, are there even more than a few hundred courses that have hosted tour events in the last 40 years? How can there be thousands of of course owners clamoring for a distance rollback for the PGA Tour where 7k yards is actually needed? Is the 13th hole at Augusta now sentient and asking for a distance rollback as well? To my knowledge Augusta management has never weighed in on a distance rollback, hard to believe that the 13th broke faith with management on that one. 

 

Or are you just aggregating every 6k yard municipal course out there and bemoaning the fact that they would not be eligible to host a tour event because they aren't 7k+ yards? 

Because... Jack says so...

[TLUBulldogGolf]

7 minutes ago, golfer07840 said:

 

Once again, you guys keep going back to the ole days of Yore to make a point. 

 

Perhaps we should roll back technology in all aspects of life. 

 

I should recommend to my boss that we dump all the computers and infrastructure to make our jobs easier and "roll back" to typewriters. 

 

 

 

Now do social media. Also I thought this debate was pointless?

Edited July 11, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[smashdn]

@golfer07840

Regardless of when the golfer played, you don't think a random (no offense to this kid) 15 year old doing something that would be questionable as to whether it would be attempted by arguably the greatest golfer of that generation shouldn't raise some eyebrows?

 

Snead was known as a long driver in his day.

 

Perhaps we should confine our thoughts to the topic at hand which is technology in golf, which is a sport designed to have an inherent amount of difficulty

[smashdn]

16 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

No one disagrees with the first two statements. All sports progress, golf has unique considerations for that progression. 

 

 

 I would say not all sports progress.  Some the equipment is purposefully held back for competitive balance and other reasons.

 

Golf has some very valid reasons the equipment should have (opportunity missed initially) been held back.  It can be rectified now.