LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[freeze16172002]

12 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Worse, they are losing LIV/PIF billions. LIV won’t even spend on Friday TV golf because it’s too expensive and the ratings are worthless. The players are giving them nothing! 

The best thing the PGA Tour could do is ignore LIV, dont entertain them with meetings. Just let them play in the abyss, let them pay billions for players over and over

[Danielson]

29 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Worse, they are losing LIV/PIF billions. LIV won’t even spend on Friday TV golf because it’s too expensive and the ratings are worthless. The players are giving them nothing! 

 

The players are giving them leverage to negotiate with the PGA Tour on a deal. I don't think running a golf league was ever a goal of the PIF, they just wanted to push the PGA Tour. I don't think that Greg Norman is on that same page though.

[Holy Moses]

13 minutes ago, freeze16172002 said:

The best thing the PGA Tour could do is ignore LIV, dont entertain them with meetings. Just let them play in the abyss, let them pay billions for players over and over

But doing that has got them to this point and the PGA Tour sponsors aren’t happy. No sponsors, no PGA Tour. Isn’t the PGA Tour running at a loss with the increased purses of the Signature Events? Yes the Tour has private equity money, but they are going to want a return and you don’t get a return running in the red.

[Holy Moses]

2 minutes ago, Danielson said:

 

The players are giving them leverage to negotiate with the PGA Tour on a deal. I don't think running a golf league was ever a goal of the PIF, they just wanted to push the PGA Tour. I don't think that Greg Norman is on that same page though.

You are right on that. But when many of your own LIV players are desperate for a merger, you lose some of your negotiating power. 

[freeze16172002]

6 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

But doing that has got them to this point and the PGA Tour sponsors aren’t happy. No sponsors, no PGA Tour. Isn’t the PGA Tour running at a loss with the increased purses of the Signature Events? Yes the Tour has private equity money, but they are going to want a return and you don’t get a return running in the red.

LIV doesnt solve that problem. If LIV invests in the PGA that money would go to players and production cost, there would still be no profit. Investment doesnt equal return. When the product cost more then your selling it for you have LIV and now the PGA

[BlackDiamondPar5]

11 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The players who didn’t leave and could have want financial or other penalties which PIF/LIV won’t want to accept. Some LIV players don’t want to come back, but those by and large are the players whose best years are behind them and just want a big pay day while offering almost nothing that benefits LIV. But the PGA Tour sponsors are getting increasingly frustrated at the recent TV ratings and will demand action sooner than later.

Do you have any data/evidence that links the current state of PGA TV ratings to LIV and how an agreement will fix it?

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, freeze16172002 said:

LIV doesnt solve that problem. If LIV invests in the PGA that money would go to players and production cost, there would still be no profit. Investment doesnt equal return. When the product cost more then your selling it for you have LIV and now the PGA

They are going to have to drop purse size after the merger

[Holy Moses]

47 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Do you have any data/evidence that links the current state of PGA TV ratings to LIV and how an agreement will fix it?

Just historical ratings before and after LIV

[Rapidcat]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

You are right on that. But when many of your own LIV players are desperate for a merger, you lose some of your negotiating power. 

Really, how do you know, or more realistically why do you think so?

 

There's only a handful of LIV golfers that would find their way fairly easily to the PGAT and some of those may not want it (Cam Smith stated to Oz media earlier this year that he has little interest in returning to the PGAT). Plenty of non ex-PGAT players.

 

Bryson will be the most interesting to watch in a merged PIF/PGAT whatever entity. The PGAT will be desperate for him, he may have other ideas, he just needs access to majors which he has.

 

Its debatable I know, someone like Joaquin Niemann will be an interesting watch.   

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

The players are giving them leverage to negotiate with the PGA Tour on a deal. I don't think running a golf league was ever a goal of the PIF, they just wanted to push the PGA Tour. I don't think that Greg Norman is on that same page though.

Leverage, lol. 

[notsohard]

LIV are probably adding another country for next year. Adelaide has been brought forward to February. 

[notsohard]

18 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

In his press conference an hour ago, Bryson said he wanted a merger “fast.” Why? Why did you go to LIV and now want a merger? Wasn’t LIV the new thing and you didn’t want to be a part of the stale PGA Tour?

There won't be a merger. PIF want in on the PGAT. They will invest billions like the SSG, but want a say on the elevated events, and join them with certain LIV events. The two tours will probably merge a few times a year....And the SSG want this to happen... they want a return, not like PIF.

[Ghost of Snead]

47 minutes ago, notsohard said:

LIV are probably adding another country for next year. Adelaide has been brought forward to February. 

 

This looks like it will work - 

 

New Hilton resort includes Tibet’s first golf course (golfcoursearchitecture.net)

 

Think of all of the sherpas who will take up golf ...

    

Edited June 17 by Ghost of Snead

[RSLP]

PIF can pay for the PGA Tour just using a small percent of what it earns annually.  Next door to the PGA Tour is the ATP, google what they got for what is rumored/estimated at a 2B investment.  2B is the estimated LIV investment.  Ponte Vedra wants that action also!

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

This looks like it will work - 

 

New Hilton resort includes Tibet’s first golf course (golfcoursearchitecture.net)

 

Think of all of the sherpas who will take up golf ...

    

 

Hey, looping around a course there is probably easier than trying to help rich idiots up Everest...

 

...although with my golf game, they might prefer the rich idiots. 

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, notsohard said:

LIV are probably adding another country for next year. Adelaide has been brought forward to February. 

Maybe but that wouldn’t be explain moving it.  More likely make a big splash earlier - more noise, lol. Of course, after they do that they are silent as the grave basically the full “season”. 

[Rapidcat]

16 hours ago, notsohard said:

LIV are probably adding another country for next year. Adelaide has been brought forward to February. 

 

South Africa.

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

South Africa.

 

That makes sense.

 

At that point would they not be darn near on every continent?  Maybe not south america though.

 

That said, from a US golfer perspective, going from here to south america might be a long-ish flight but you are not changing many if any time zones.  May not be a bad idea to see what could be had in argentina?

[Rapidcat]

5 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

That makes sense.

 

At that point would they not be darn near on every continent?  Maybe not south america though.

 

That said, from a US golfer perspective, going from here to south america might be a long-ish flight but you are not changing many if any time zones.  May not be a bad idea to see what could be had in argentina?

 

Good call, plus there is a Latin American stacked team in Torque. 300 courses in Argentina so finding a decent venue should be do-able.

 

Seems like the Saffers have got behind Stingers GC, hence the thought about a South African event. 450 courses there.

[smashdn]

So I am looking at tickets for Nashville.  There is precious little information to be had as far as times and parking for the event.  Saturday the grounds passes are all sold out.  I was looking at Sunday anyway in hopes of avoiding a little bit of the traffic issues that are inherent Nashville.

 

To anyone who has been in the past, is it typical golf tournament type deal where you park off-site and you are shuttled to the course?

[RSLP]

see link, they have shuttles:

 

https://www.livgolf.com/events/nashville-2024?tab=transport-%26-parking-%3AR6qh6%3A

 

 

[discover-it]

I watched a little of the LIV tourney in TX the other week (first time seeing one) and was surprised at the festive atmosphere of it all with the music playing and I thought, "how weird to have this at a golf tournament." 

 

Later that afternoon, I went to hit some balls at the range of my local muni. There was an event going on at the clubhouse where a lot of people were gathered outside the clubhouse restaurant. They had a DJ playing music, the people were pretty loud, etc. It could be heard all around the practice area and I would imagine around several holes close to the clubhouse. You know what??? it was actually pretty cool. I enjoyed it.

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

16 minutes ago, discover-it said:

I watched a little of the LIV tourney in TX the other week (first time seeing one) and was surprised at the festive atmosphere of it all with the music playing and I thought, "how weird to have this at a golf tournament." 

 

Later that afternoon, I went to hit some balls at the range of my local muni. There was an event going on at the clubhouse where a lot of people were gathered outside the clubhouse restaurant. They had a DJ playing music, the people were pretty loud, etc. It could be heard all around the practice area and I would imagine around several holes close to the clubhouse. You know what??? it was actually pretty cool. I enjoyed it.

 

 

Many, including myself, would not. Earbuds are a wonderful thing.

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, smashdn said:

So I am looking at tickets for Nashville.  There is precious little information to be had as far as times and parking for the event.  Saturday the grounds passes are all sold out.  I was looking at Sunday anyway in hopes of avoiding a little bit of the traffic issues that are inherent Nashville.

 

To anyone who has been in the past, is it typical golf tournament type deal where you park off-site and you are shuttled to the course?

Yes, it can happen. They do that for the PGA Tour Champions event in the Atlanta area. 

[jdl]

https://x.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1803130310047178921

 

@AlanShipnuck
Tour board meeting is happening right now in Hartford. Texting with a board member, he says not to expect an announcement today. With this much at stake (billions of dollars, the legacies of various powerful people, the future of the sport) and an army of lawyers on both sides…every comma is being heavily scrutinized. The framework agreement messaging last June 6th was such a disaster the Tour will definitely not go public this time until every detail is nailed down. LIV’s Anthony Kim tweeted last week about a draft agreement having been agreed upon and at Pinehurst various industry folks were talking about it as a done deal but, as we’ve seen, it’s a delicate, fraught process. Looks like we’re gonna have to wait a bit longer. Sorry I got everyone’s hopes up. 😕

Edited June 18 by jdl

[Titleist99]

On 6/17/2024 at 9:05 AM, freeze16172002 said:

LIV doesnt solve that problem. If LIV invests in the PGA that money would go to players and production cost, there would still be no profit. Investment doesnt equal return. When the product cost more then your selling it for you have LIV and now the PGA

Don't the PGAT have $2B in revenue per year, before SSG investments?

[Golferpaul]

4 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Many, including myself, would not. Earbuds are a wonderful thing.

Me neither, but I think the younger generation likes it.

[Hawkeye77]

58 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

Me neither, but I think the younger generation likes it.

That are avid golfers? Not so much in my experience. The noise and music thing has just as many middle aged and older folks who seem to think it’s necessary these days. But background music that nobody listens to has to be loud so people have to shout at each other. 

Edited June 18 by Hawkeye77

[Jolter]

I really don't think LIV players are looking to enter all PGATour events but somehow participate with PGATour members in specified designated so called world events. As to the PGATour, they are going to have to explain after taking a moralistic attitude toward PIF/LIV, they are going to have to spin how it is ok to take " blood money " from PIF. Brandel are you getting your lexicon ready to slam the Tour on this?

[Titleist99]

13 minutes ago, Jolter said:

I really don't think LIV players are looking to enter all PGATour events but somehow participate with PGATour members in specified designated so called world events. As to the PGATour, they are going to have to explain after taking a moralistic attitude toward PIF/LIV, they are going to have to spin how it is ok to take " blood money " from PIF. Brandel are you getting your lexicon ready to slam the Tour on this?

This has been the problem all along IMO. The PGAT has to find a way to take the cash but make it seem like the public is clamoring for it. That's how greed works.

 

PGAT is going to have to take the money for the good of the game. 😉wink, wink.