Does wrist set at arm parallel matter?

[Z1ggy16]

My coach has showed me a lot of great swings like Tiger and Adam Scott who generally speaking get to about 90* wrist set angle by arm parallel (with irons anyway). For whatever reason I just can't get there and my brain really wants to keep things wide, although I get to about 80* by the top.

 

Does the point in the swing where you generate this angle matter? Pic for reference. 

 

[alittleoverpar]

I would argue that the only thing that matters is impact position.  There are many different ways to get there, but the only thing that influences the ball is impact. 

[getitdaily]

It really all depends on a few things

 

1. Does your lack of hinge cause an arm overrun swing? Late hinge can lead to arms that keep going and going and going well after your shoulder turn is complete

2. Is your width also flat? Late set can lead to a flat backswing or a clubhead that gets too inside.

3. How do you transition. Going from wide to narrow can cause issues

 

Not many guys get to 90 by lead arm parallel. That was a move ledbetter was really pushing in the early 2000s. Ask Charles Howell how that moved fared for him.

[Z1ggy16]

21 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

It really all depends on a few things

 

1. Does your lack of hinge cause an arm overrun swing? Late hinge can lead to arms that keep going and going and going well after your shoulder turn is complete

2. Is your width also flat? Late set can lead to a flat backswing or a clubhead that gets too inside.

3. How do you transition. Going from wide to narrow can cause issues

 

Not many guys get to 90 by lead arm parallel. That was a move ledbetter was really pushing in the early 2000s. Ask Charles Howell how that moved fared for him.

Here's my swing from today. Pretty much like you say, get a little long at the top but it's not flat at all. I'm a little steep coming into the ball which I'm guessing is because I struggle to get my rear arm to externally rotate enough coming into the ball. http://youtube.com/shorts/cwdW3XVAbIo?feature=share

Edited September 29, 2022 by Z1ggy16

[MonteScheinblum]

Impact is all that matters is like saying I can to go Canada from Montana through Texas.  Yea, you will eventually get there, but it’s harder.  Having as little wrist set as you do at P3, you can play form there obviously, but it’s like going to Canada from North Dakota through South Dakota   Your body has to wait for your wrists to set and it throws transition off.

Edited September 30, 2022 by MonteScheinblum

[tthomasgolfer605]

Tiger never came close to having a 90 degree wrist set at lead arm parallel in his whole life. 

[Z1ggy16]

This is from 2000. I tried to stop it at exactly p3 but I think he's maybe 2-3 inches past there. He gets to about 90* by this position. His swing has not stayed the same over the years.

 

 

Also, this guy has been known to play decently:

Edited September 30, 2022 by Z1ggy16

[tthomasgolfer605]

32 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

This is from 2000. I tried to stop it at exactly p3 but I think he's maybe 2-3 inches past there. He gets to about 90* by this position. His swing has not stayed the same over the years.

 

 

Also, this guy has been known to play decently:

1. Here's a pic at P3 from same video. 2. Rory's a tool. 3. Your problem is not your wrist hinge. 

[Z1ggy16]

6 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

1. Here's a pic at P3 from same video. 2. Rory's a tool. 3. Your problem is not your wrist hinge. 

 

I'm not sure what I'd rather be, a cool but not rich internet guy, or a multimillionaire tool. 🤔🤔 

[KMeloney]

I'd bet that you rintention of keeping your swing wide is keeping you from setting your wrists earlier, and that your bent lead arm is largely a result of it.

 

I'd say that the width you're after is based on extending the hands -- not the club head -- away from you. You can get all the width you want with the club fully set at lead-arm parallel with your wrists set (just check out DJ's swing). When you chase width, it's easy to push your arms, wrists, and club out behind you, since it creates the feel of being wide and extended. But when you get near the top and realize your wrists aren't set, it's also very easy to overswing the arms and/or let the lead arm soften/bend in order to feel that you're building some power into the swing.

 

You can certainly set your wrists late and have plenty of success. I just think you need to marry it with a float-load move -- and that's not for everyone.

[jut111]

Issue to me becomes partial swings. It’s tough to hit a ball from that position. 

[Zitlow]

45 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

I'd bet that you rintention of keeping your swing wide is keeping you from setting your wrists earlier, and that your bent lead arm is largely a result of it.

 

I'd say that the width you're after is based on extending the hands -- not the club head -- away from you. You can get all the width you want with the club fully set at lead-arm parallel with your wrists set (just check out DJ's swing). When you chase width, it's easy to push your arms, wrists, and club out behind you, since it creates the feel of being wide and extended. But when you get near the top and realize your wrists aren't set, it's also very easy to overswing the arms and/or let the lead arm soften/bend in order to feel that you're building some power into the swing.

 

You can certainly set your wrists late and have plenty of success. I just think you need to marry it with a float-load move -- and that's not for everyone.

 

Guys trying to swing wide lose their balance and lose the synchronization of the shoulders and shaft. In the downswing they end up waving their arm mass linearly at the ball vs applying rotational force to the ball with their body mass. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Zitlow

[Rosco1216]

Wrist set isn’t really the difference. You’re swinging your arms back away from the ball without the same relative shoulder turn as tiger and Rory.  They are already almost to 90* shoulder turn at left arm parallel and their hands are still very much in of their torso.  Your top is also exaggerated by your bent lead arm as well. If that arm was straight, you would barely be past parallel.  You need to get your shoulders turning more as you take the club back versus just arms which eventually pull your shoulders around. 
 

 

[Z1ggy16]

6 hours ago, Rosco1216 said:

Wrist set isn’t really the difference. You’re swinging your arms back away from the ball without the same relative shoulder turn as tiger and Rory.  They are already almost to 90* shoulder turn at left arm parallel and their hands are still very much in of their torso.  Your top is also exaggerated by your bent lead arm as well. If that arm was straight, you would barely be past parallel.  You need to get your shoulders turning more as you take the club back versus just arms which eventually pull your shoulders around. 
 

 

That's a good point. So then what should I feel to keep my body rotation and arms more synced up? 

[Fuscinator]

20 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Impact is all that matters is like saying I can to go Canada from Montana through Texas.  Yea, you will eventually get there, but it’s harder.  Having as little wrist set as you do at P3, you can play form there obviously, but it’s like going to Canada from North Dakota through South Dakota   Your body has to wait for your wrists to set and it throws transition off.

So...Doug Sanders was longer than John Daly?🤔

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Fuscinator said:

So...Doug Sanders was longer than John Daly?🤔

Strawman and we’re not not talking about either one of those guys.  We’re talking about the OP and his swing.

[getitdaily]

13 hours ago, Z1ggy16 said:

That's a good point. So then what should I feel to keep my body rotation and arms more synced up? 

Make half and 3/4 swings on camera and look at what you think is half and 3/4 vs reality...

[Fuscinator]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Strawman and we’re not not talking about either one of those guys.  We’re talking about the OP and his swing.

Haha, maybe. Your analogy made me think of John Daly going through all 50 states in the time it took Doug Sanders to go from one county to the next. 

 

I pretty much agree with the person to whom you responded that impact is all that matters. If impact is right, a screwed up looking swing that got there doesn't matter, and if impact is wrong, an allegedly great set of mechanics doesn't matter. So, why don't these discussions start off with the person's concept of impact? (Real question. I don't understand why.)

 

In my admittedly very clueless observation, the OP may have identified his own problem when he said "my brain really wants to keep things wide". Does he think if the swing goes back wide it should come down wide, too? Is he unaware of a potential relationship between wrist set and the delofting at impact? (Is there one?🤔)

Edited October 1, 2022 by Fuscinator
Spelling 😏

[Z1ggy16]

12 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

Haha, maybe. Your analogy made me think of John Daly going through all 50 states in the time it took Doug Sanders to go from one county to the next. 

 

I pretty much agree with the person to whom you responded that impact is all that matters. If impact is right, a screwed up looking swing that got there doesn't matter, and if impact is wrong, an allegedly great set of mechanics doesn't matter. So, why don't these discussions start off with the person's concept of impact? (Real question. I don't understand why.)

 

In my admittedly very clueless observation, the OP may have identified his own problem when he said "my brain really wants to keep things wide". Does he think if the swing goes back wide it should come down wide, too? Is he unaware of a potential relationship between wrist set and the delofting at impact? (Is there one?🤔)

I don't really think anything per se, my brain just associates a certain feeling with an action but obviously what feels "set enough" isn't really very much.

 

Years of hockey ingrained, feeling wide is normal and powerful. It's just something I'll need to consciously train for several months... Same with moving my arms and torso at a more 1:1 rate.

[Fuscinator]

11 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

I don't really think anything per se, my brain just associates a certain feeling with an action but obviously what feels "set enough" isn't really very much.

 

Years of hockey ingrained, feeling wide is normal and powerful. It's just something I'll need to consciously train for several months... Same with moving my arms and torso at a more 1:1 rate.

Ok, so maybe you need to look at ways in which golf is fundamentally different from hockey rather than any similarities. For example, the grips are very different, so the way the "instrument" (Jim Flick) is leveraged is going to quite different. 

Once you accommodate the differences in golf, any applicable carryover from hockey will likely still be there.

 

Btw, do you play golf from the same side as hockey? Are you left-handed?

 

[Z1ggy16]

18 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

Ok, so maybe you need to look at ways in which golf is fundamentally different from hockey rather than any similarities. For example, the grips are very different, so the way the "instrument" (Jim Flick) is leveraged is going to quite different. 

Once you accommodate the differences in golf, any applicable carryover from hockey will likely still be there.

 

Btw, do you play golf from the same side as hockey? Are you left-handed?

 

Yes lefty both sports. 

 

The season is winding down here so I'll be able to practice indoors quite a bit over the winter time. Tough trying to make changes while playing.

[Fuscinator]

7 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

Yes lefty both sports. 

 

The season is winding down here so I'll be able to practice indoors quite a bit over the winter time. Tough trying to make changes while playing.

Haha! I change my swing on every hole. It's very much a "well, THAT didn't work" kind of thing.

[ALIF]

I still am so amazed at how some members of this forum want to argue with or think they know more than a guy like Monte. I mean, they are so clueless that they don’t even know that they don’t know. That’s why they will perpetually remain a high handicap golfer with a move that can’t even crack an egg. 
Doctor tells patient, sir you have cancer and need an operation and chemotherapy if you want to live. Patient says, I think I will try a homeopathic remedy and see if that works because I researched it online. I wonder how that will turn out? Lol.

[Z1ggy16]

42 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

Haha! I change my swing on every hole. It's very much a "well, THAT didn't work" kind of thing.

Been down that path... I stick with what I've got that day and worry about execution of the shot, trying to pick a good place to miss. 

 

Generally I try to drill swing thoughts when I'm not playing, in the judgement free zone of my basement 😅

[Zitlow]

People get in trouble because they don't know how to use their hands to properly set the club on plane. The shaft and clubface end up out of position at the top and they have to manipulate the club in the downswing to make contact with the ball. 

 

 

 

[Fuscinator]

1 hour ago, ALIF said:

I still am so amazed at how some members of this forum want to argue with or think they know more than a guy like Monte. I mean, they are so clueless that they don’t even know that they don’t know. That’s why they will perpetually remain a high handicap golfer with a move that can’t even crack an egg. 
Doctor tells patient, sir you have cancer and need an operation and chemotherapy if you want to live. Patient says, I think I will try a homeopathic remedy and see if that works because I researched it online. I wonder how that will turn out? Lol.

A routine x-ray finds a little tiny nodule on the patient's lung. Even though a PET Scan turns out negative, the first specialist wants to do a biopsy on a nodule that may be too small for such a procedure. The specialist insists this is most likely cancer and the nodule should be removed as soon as possible.

A second specialist thinks the nodule is too small for a biopsy and doesn't want to risk unnecessary surgery. Instead, he recommends close monitoring. If a notable change occurs, then surgery may be required.

In my analogy, both are authorities, but they have very differing opinions about what should be done. How do you decide which authority to obey? 

[Z1ggy16]

38 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

A routine x-ray finds a little tiny nodule on the patient's lung. Even though a PET Scan turns out negative, the first specialist wants to do a biopsy on a nodule that may be too small for such a procedure. The specialist insists this is most likely cancer and the nodule should be removed as soon as possible.

A second specialist thinks the nodule is too small for a biopsy and doesn't want to risk unnecessary surgery. Instead, he recommends close monitoring. If a notable change occurs, then surgery may be required.

In my analogy, both are authorities, but they have very differing opinions about what should be done. How do you decide which authority to obey? 

Who is the other doctor in this scenario?? Lol nobody except for maybe Dan who actively participates in this forums is on the same level as Monte. Maybe there could be others but I'm not as familiar.

 

I don't venture into this section of WRX often but I know Monte can be trusted, and he proves that he knows what he's taking about because he practices what he preaches. I've seen him hit balls live and played with him, as far as people on this forum go, I feel comfortable taking his advice. 

 

[Fuscinator]

5 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

Who is the other doctor in this scenario?? Lol nobody except for maybe Dan who actively participates in this forums is on the same level as Monte. Maybe there could be others but I'm not as familiar.

 

I don't venture into this section of WRX often but I know Monte can be trusted, and he proves that he knows what he's taking about because he practices what he preaches. I've seen him hit balls live and played with him, as far as people on this forum go, I feel comfortable taking his advice. 

 

I like Monte's stuff. I like other people's stuff, too, who are not associated with golfwrx. If you only want to take advice from people associated with golfwrx, that's your business. As I watch and read a lot of materials from a variety of sources, I come across conflicting opinions. For golf, I tend to pursue that which makes the most sense to me. (I must also admit, though, I have a weakness for screwball theories.) Most of the people whose golf materials I'm exposed to are authorities. Their authority is moot. That's the point. You shouldn't take advice from someone because they are an authority. You should take advice from someone because they either make sense to you, or because they present you with a promising insight you hadn't considered before.

[Z1ggy16]

13 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

I like Monte's stuff. I like other people's stuff, too, who are not associated with golfwrx. If you only want to take advice from people associated with golfwrx, that's your business. As I watch and read a lot of materials from a variety of sources, I come across conflicting opinions. For golf, I tend to pursue that which makes the most sense to me. (I must also admit, though, I have a weakness for screwball theories.) Most of the people whose golf materials I'm exposed to are authorities. Their authority is moot. That's the point. You shouldn't take advice from someone because they are an authority. You should take advice from someone because they either make sense to you, or because they present you with a promising insight you hadn't considered before.

I get that line of thinking but that's also the same reasoning people probably used to drink bleach to get rid of covid. 

 

The end of day... I think the answer to my question of "does the wrist set matter" is yes it does, but the exact degree probably doesn't, just that you have between x and y amount, unless you're a total outlier (which I don't think I am, my swing is relatively conventional).

[golfarb1]

About 50% of top players have their wrists set 90  degrees to their lead forearm when their lead arm is parallel to the ground . And 

50 % do not . 
Dustin, Tony Finau, LD champion  Jason Zubak, Bryson and Jack 

Edited October 1, 2022 by golfarb1