New AMG Shallowing Video - Wow...

[FormerBigDaddy]

7 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Haha welcome back!… Would this qualify?

I’ll go by tigers swing thanks. But no… this is slightly after p5. 
 

I think that the throw really starts right after p5. 
 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[Rdailey9108]

This video seems to relevant to this argument

 

 

[FormerBigDaddy]

3 minutes ago, Rdailey9108 said:

This video seems to relevant to this argument

 

 

Tigers FEEL at the time was to get his arms caught up with his lower body. His issue was lower body being too fast and getting stuck. The context is import. For him he had to feel like his arms started first. 
 

They still didn’t but that was the feel. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[kobe123]

Just now, FormerBigDaddy said:

Tigers FELL at the time was to get his arms caught up with his lower body. His issue was lower body being too fast and getting stuck. The context is import. For him he had to feel like his arms started first. 
 

They still didn’t but that was the feel. 

 

You're still missing the point. The arms shallow the club. What are you arguing here?

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I’ll go by tigers swing thanks. But no… this is slight after p5. 
 

I think that the throw really starts right after p5. 

So you’re telling me the best lady in the world has her trail elbow bent 90* 1/24th of a second before that photo… ok, I’ll leave it at that then, no need to discuss

[AlohaPineapple]

9 minutes ago, Rdailey9108 said:

This video seems to relevant to this argument

 

 

that ancient aliens production treatment

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by AlohaPineapple

[FormerBigDaddy]

6 minutes ago, kobe123 said:

 

5 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

So you’re telling me the best lady in the world has her trail elbow bent 90* 1/24th of a second before that photo… ok, I’ll leave it at that then, no need to discuss

Look at tigers trail arm in the first 3 pics UP TO p5 and then the last 2 pics in the sequence AFTER P5 and answer your own question. Where does the most trail arm extension actually happen? In the time you just described. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[FormerBigDaddy]

I’d be glad to concede that maybe a small amount of trail arm extension happens to start the downswing but you cannot tell me based on the sequence above that it’s the driver of the shallowing move.
 

I’m gonna trust tigers swing over a shirt with some sensors on that cannot measure trail shoulder external rotation as mentioned above. 

[MonteScheinblum]

 

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I’d be glad to concede that maybe a small amount of trail arm extension happens to start the downswing but you cannot tell me based on the sequence above that it’s the driver of the shallowing move.
 

I’m gonna trust tigers swing over a shirt with some sensors on that cannot measure trail shoulder external rotation as mentioned above. 

Have you considered asking for a refund on that biomechanics degree?

[FormerBigDaddy]

5 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Have you considered asking for a refund on that biomechanics degree?

Have you considered going to an eye doctor?

 

Tiger’s relationship between his right elbow and his right ribcage never changes from the top to p5. So the idea of him dropping is arms (right elbow down and to ribcage) to shallow is gone. 
 

He clearly doesn’t extend his trail elbow much, if AT ALL, from the top. So that idea of him shallowing is gone. 

 

What’s left? His lower body shifting and turning as he competes his backswing. He also squats which drops the club a bit. That’s tiger’s shallowing move. It’s right in front of your face. He throws the arms LAST and that’s where the right arm extension comes. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[kobe123]

5 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I’d be glad to concede that maybe a small amount of trail arm extension happens to start the downswing but you cannot tell me based on the sequence above that it’s the driver of the shallowing move.
 

I’m gonna trust tigers swing over a shirt with some sensors on that cannot measure trail shoulder external rotation as mentioned above. 

 

 

 

Please take a video and show me how the pivot can shallow a club without moving your arms. I will then take a video of me not pivoting and shallowing the club with my arms. And I won't drive my left shoulder to the sky like you will.

Edited January 25, 2023 by kobe123

[kobe123]

5 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I’d be glad to concede that maybe a small amount of trail arm extension happens to start the downswing but you cannot tell me based on the sequence above that it’s the driver of the shallowing move.
 

I’m gonna trust tigers swing over a shirt with some sensors on that cannot measure trail shoulder external rotation as mentioned above. 

 

Now I can't say for a fact that Tiger has been on Gears, but I can say for a fact that Rory has.

 

 

[swh0507]

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Have you considered asking for a refund on that biomechanics degree?

 

3 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Why aren't you scratch already then? 

 

 

You could debate him without resorting to personal insults. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

4 minutes ago, kobe123 said:

 

And I guess, I'll trust that 8.2 handicap.
 

 

Please take a video and show me how the pivot can shallow a club without moving your arms. I will then take a video of me not pivoting and shallowing the club with my arms. And I won't drive my left shoulder to the sky like you will.

It’s right in front of your face! Tiger does nothing with his arms until p5. Where he starts to throw aggressively. 

[RoyalTroon]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

100% and ANYONE who tells you manually speed up the arms destroys your kinematic sequence because to speed up the arms your chest must decelerate.

 

Might be in the running for best post of this discussion.  This is where pure centripetal weaves it magic, when the big muscles in back of us control an acceleration of all of us from ground up instead of delegating that job to the front of us. 

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Have you considered going to an eye doctor?

I am smart enough to know that 2D images of 3D objects can be deceiving, especially when captured off axis by an imaging system that can only further distort things. This has nothing to do with vision and everything to do with how we perceive and process images. The entire industry is switching over to 3D capture systems for this exact reason. What we "see" in 2D isn't always what is actually happening in 3D

[MonteScheinblum]

The thorax is supposed to decelerate and if the arms accelerate late, the thorax won’t decelerate correctly or on time and throws the whole sequence off.  Notice the acceleration curves of the hips, thorax, lead arm and club are about the same from the top.  Right from the TPI website.

Edited January 24, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

I am smart enough to know that 2D images of 3D objects can be deceiving, especially when captured off axis by an imaging system that can only further distort things. This has nothing to do with vision and everything to do with how we perceive and process images. The entire industry is switching over to 3D capture systems for this exact reason. What we "see" in 2D isn't always what is actually happening in 3D

I don’t care what dimension you want to look at it. Tiger doesn’t start to really extend his right arm until after p5. 

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

 

 

 

You could debate him without resorting to personal insults. 

You can't even call it a debate when one side is completely ignoring objective data and obtusely ignoring valid points from multiple well sources, including bonified professionals.

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I don’t care what dimension you want to look at it. Tiger doesn’t start to really extend his right arm until after p5. 

lol how the heck can you have a biomechanics degree and completely ignore a dimension? The entire field ceases to exists if you don't account for all 3 dimensions. This is insanity 

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

You can't even call it a debate when one side is completely ignoring objective data and obtusely ignoring valid points from multiple well sources, including bonified professionals.

I’m not the only one on this thread skeptical about this gears data. Let’s get that clear. There has been well worded skepticism as to what gears lacks compared to other methods. 
 

Are we really throwing out everything that’s been taught forever based on one video of an unknown person wearing a shirt with some sensors on it?

 

Other than one person, I have never hear a pro tell a golfer to cast to start the downswing. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

10 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

You can't even call it a debate when one side is completely ignoring objective data and obtusely ignoring valid points from multiple well sources, including bonified professionals.

I can’t debate someone who says that tiger is extending his right arm to shallow the club. 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I’m not the only one on this thread skeptical about this gears data. Let’s get that clear. There has been well worded skepticism as to what gears lacks compared to other methods. 
 

Are we really throwing out everything that’s been taught forever based on one video of an unknown person wearing a shirt with some sensors on it?

 

Other than one person, I have never hear a pro tell a golfer to cast to start the downswing. 

I have not made one person attack and then you come at me? I could name many but I’ll name one.  Search out how Stan Utley cured Charles Barkleys swing yips by telling him to unload the vertical hinge.

 

Excuse me for not posting anymore, but I have been asked by Chris Como (another who has talked about unloading the vertical hinge) to do the first presentation at The Open Forum tonight about myths and misconceptions.  I will be followed by several bio mechanists EXPERTS.

[Zitlow]

23 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Have you considered asking for a refund on that biomechanics degree?

 

This is a golf swing discussion board, dissenting viewpoints are allowed. 

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

 

 

Other than one person, I have never hear a pro tell a golfer to cast to start the downswing. 

That is because you are simply too caught up in your own ideas to listen. This thread is literally packed to the brim with other instructors who have been advocating the same exact thing for a long long time. There are far more folks teaching this arm movement over the keep your arms up and rotate camp

[ThePaineTrain]

P5 is a position not a time. It's really hard to have "left arm parallel/club vertical" and not have the right arm at an angle. The issue is when do you time that move. I could go through all the positions and stop at each one for a full second and look like a textbook at each one and the ball wouldn't go anywhere. The extension of the right arm is a motion that occurs throughout the whole swing, the key is getting it (and everything else) to occur at the right time.

[ferrispgm]

50 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Here’s the next 2 frames I could get AFTER P5. There’s the trail arm extension!

 

 

If you think you know more about the golf swing than @MonteScheinblumAMG, or many other well established instructors after playing a little and can tell the difference of a couple degrees of movement without measuring equipment you should quit your day job and go into politics stat. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by ferrispgm

[FormerBigDaddy]

9 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

If you think you know more about the golf swing than @MonteScheinblumAMG, or many other well established instructors after playing a little and can tell the difference of a couple degrees of movement without measuring equipment you should quit your day job and go into politics stat. 

So you know more than milo and gg? It works both ways!

Edited January 24, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[kobe123]

Just now, FormerBigDaddy said:

So you k ow more than milo and gg? It works both ways!

 

The difference is, one has data and one doesn't. Whether you choose to believe the data, that's on you.