PGA TOUR, DP World Tour and PIF announce newly formed commercial entity (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Cactus Jack]

5 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

The other point of view is you don't align with the PGAT and immediately piss off the PGAT players. LIV has very little talent and the few guys they have lost allot of clout in the process. They fan following went down significantly. You need to weigh that against way more players that have a larger following and did not jump ship. If LIV guys got their massive pay-days and no repercussions you going to have issue with the PGAT guys, that listened to Jay's garbage. 

I still don’t understand the repercussion discussion. Repercussions for what? The PGAT affirmed the money was fine, affirmed the owner of LIV and therefore LIV, I don’t get it.
 

I don’t understand why the PGAT guys that stayed are upset either. They made a decision to pass on LIV. Heck, we can’t pin that on Jay. These are grown men who now want to be compensated. These guys have no claim to anything and unfortunately for them have zero leverage anymore. They took their shot forcing elevated events and bigger purses, they got what they asked for. 

[redfirebird08]

Just now, Nixhex524 said:

 

The idea is great, but I can't help but wonder, would the Saudis give two poops about a union?  I mean, is that something they'd really honor?  At this point, if they don't get their way, they can pull all funding and dump this in the garbage.  Monahan made the PGAT look worthless and the players powerless.  It would be tough to think the Saudis would negotiate anything at this point.  They are holding the whole bag. 

 

That's a fair point, and it's exactly why I think the LIV players will always have a bit of a dark thought in the back of their mind. "Better not piss off my Saudi bosses." They won't just fire you, they'll chop you into 1,000 pieces. Now the other PGA Tour guys will find themselves in the same boat. At least they didn't directly sign contracts in the same manner. A bit more middle man separation is needed. 

[Nixhex524]

Just now, Holy Moses said:

The qualifications that Jay has is that they want to be him lol. That's pretty qualified. I'm not a big fan of his, but he was the commissioner of the most successful golf league in the world until someone with stupid money that they aren't afraid to lose killed his league. 

 

They aren't dumb.  It's not Jay they ever wanted.  It was the players.  Jay was just in the way.  Now they threw some money at him, made him look like a complete fool which he seems to be ok with and tells me he lacks serious brain capacity, but they will dump him as soon as they feel the need.  The players are everything, always have been.  There is no league, tour, anything without them.  Find them a place to play, make the pot big enough and you've got the best in the world showing up.  Jay is there to take the heat until the league/tour gets off the ground and things have calmed down.  His only qualification is being able to get up in front of the world after being made out to be a total farce and hypocrite and act like everything is ok.  The Saudi govt may not be so great but this guy is the CEO of professional golf and leveraged 911 families to fight his fight that he just dropped to take a bag of money.  Both bad, but which is worse honestly?  It's not often we get to watch how truly disappointing humanity can be in real time.

[Rapidcat]

10 hours ago, KarstenK said:

He has done plenty with the Saudi’s already. He bought a mansion in Miami last year. It was place over money for him. 

 

Plus over a dozen other players have been approached - Karim Benzema (Real Madrid) has just signed to play in a Saudi league team.

 

Messi will be an outlier - he might enjoy living in Miami but he won't enjoy the soccer.

[redfirebird08]

7 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

The idea is great, but I can't help but wonder, would the Saudis give two poops about a union?  I mean, is that something they'd really honor?  At this point, if they don't get their way, they can pull all funding and dump this in the garbage.  Monahan made the PGAT look worthless and the players powerless.  It would be tough to think the Saudis would negotiate anything at this point.  They are holding the whole bag. 

 

Here's a thought. Did pro golf ever need any money from the Saudi government? I say heck no. Tiger was paid less than $500,000 for his first Masters win in 1997, the most important golf tournament of the last 30 years. The players in today's game were being paid extremely well long before the Saudis jumped into the game with billions of dollars. A labor union that scares the Saudis away from putting money into pro golf? Sounds pretty good to me. Labor union could then force the Tour to treat the players top notch and continue getting plenty of money from corporate sponsors. 

[So_Cal]

Anyone else losing interest in golf in general?  The last few years are a huge turnoff.  I left the other pro sports long ago and golf can easily go too.  May watch a couple majors but watching regular events is not a certainty.  

[oughtaquit]

6 hours ago, Potatohead said:

username checks out

Glass houses, ph. 

[GriperRiper]

amazing how "perspective" can be so extreme in the world today, and how people seem to latch on to narratives all the way until there own cods are on a bandsaw and then they see "the big picture"....I have no idea how any grown man can have such strong opinions about the LIV players and attack them with so much venom, and now say and do the same exact things that they were attacking and actually look themselves in the mirror....and i am sorry to anyone on here who made comments along those lines about the LIV players, and defended the PGAT to only be in the position your in now, my advice would be to either take every punch on the chin or stop watching/commenting on golf do to the moral compass dilemma you are now in....I really hope pro golf moves forward and i really think the "product" is going to be better because of it, there is so much potential with golf and "tradition" was holding it back.

[Nixhex524]

Just now, redfirebird08 said:

 

Here's a thought. Did pro golf ever need any money from the Saudi government? I say heck no. Tiger was paid less than $500,000 for his first Masters win in 1997, the most important golf tournament of the last 30 years. The players in today's game were being paid extremely well long before the Saudis jumped into the game with billions of dollars. A labor union that scares the Saudis away from putting money into pro golf? Sounds pretty good to me. Labor union could then force the Tour to treat the players top notch and continue getting plenty of money from corporate sponsors. 

 

Pro golf was doing "fine".  Especially the players at the top.  With the Saudi money introduced to lower level guys, I think it could be tough to ever go backwards.  I would not be surprised to see a lot of money thrown at these guys up front only to have it dwindle over time.  Lots of friction right now and people are mad.  Players want the money, but who else has that kind to throw around?  I just can't see the players giving in anymore after all this, they are gonna want everything they can get and deserve it.

[Dan33185]

32 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Anyone else losing interest in golf in general?  The last few years are a huge turnoff.  I left the other pro sports long ago and golf can easily go too.  May watch a couple majors but watching regular events is not a certainty.  

You're not alone...I was already losing interest, this just pushes me further away. Maybe I'll watch the majors, but that's about it. Greed ruins everything, now more than at any point in history it seems.

[redfirebird08]

29 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Pro golf was doing "fine".  Especially the players at the top.  With the Saudi money introduced to lower level guys, I think it could be tough to ever go backwards.  I would not be surprised to see a lot of money thrown at these guys up front only to have it dwindle over time.  Lots of friction right now and people are mad.  Players want the money, but who else has that kind to throw around?  I just can't see the players giving in anymore after all this, they are gonna want everything they can get and deserve it.

 

I agree the genie is out of the bottle. I also think the players should not take it for granted. The Saudis have said they expect a return on investment. Over time, if it becomes clear that they are continuing to lose money...they just might stop funding pro golf and move the money somewhere else more productive for their ROI goals.

 

Golf has a pretty small audience in the grand scheme compared to some of the truly big sports. It feels to me like the money being thrown around right now does not really line up with the TV ratings in general for golf. The Masters is the only tournament that seems to bring in huge enough ratings to justify these type of huge payouts, but that is only 1 tournament each year. 

[Retsdon]

Rory McIlroy should save his anger for the PGA that led him on and then spat in his eye. Anything he says about LIV players just comes across as sour grapes.

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

I still don’t understand the repercussion discussion. Repercussions for what? The PGAT affirmed the money was fine, affirmed the owner of LIV and therefore LIV, I don’t get it.
 

I don’t understand why the PGAT guys that stayed are upset either. They made a decision to pass on LIV. Heck, we can’t pin that on Jay. These are grown men who now want to be compensated. These guys have no claim to anything and unfortunately for them have zero leverage anymore. They took their shot forcing elevated events and bigger purses, they got what they asked for. 

The repercussions are for breaking the rules of the PGAT. Nothing to do with Saudi money. 

[RSinSG]

48 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Anyone else losing interest in golf in general?  The last few years are a huge turnoff.  I left the other pro sports long ago and golf can easily go too.  May watch a couple majors but watching regular events is not a certainty.  

There are many of us in your camp. Years ago I was a regular at San Diego Chargers games, occasionally went to a Dodgers or Angels game and even a Lakers game when they were at the Fabulous Forum ( yeah, I'm old.) I watched NFL pretty closely, watched the MLB playoffs and WS and NBA playoffs. Pro sports moved on from me and I haven't been to a game for 15+ years, and stopped watching televised games several years ago. I started following the Chargers again mostly because my so who still lives in SoCal is such a fan I want to be able to talk about the team with him. I've been a big fan of NCAA football, but lately it's becoming a challenge to get enthused over with all the transfer portal and NIL distractions and the politics of the playoffs. I used to watch most PGA tournaments but for the last couple of years the commercials and droning announcers reduced me to recording it and playing it back with my finger on FF. It bums me out TBH as watching sports on TV was something I did with my dad and then with my sons. 

[philly2kuk]

24 minutes ago, Dan33185 said:

You're not alone...I was already losing interest, this just pushes me further away. Maybe I'll watch the majors, but that's about it. Greed ruins everything, now more than at any point in history it seems.

I’d already gotten to that point last year. This year I’ve watched the masters, couple of hours of the pga before going to bed (was obvious early on Koepka was going to win) and an hour here or there of the odd tour event.

 

I’ll try the US open and the Open, but if we see another runaway winner they’ll be going off. Won’t be watching the Ryder cup.

 

For my interest in my humble opinion, the game needs a new superstar that wins regularly and is exciting to watch. We’re just in a lull now as we were between Jack and Tiger where there are many good players but no superstars. And nobody say Rory, he hasn’t won a major in donkeys and has more squirrels in his head than in the whole of Sherwood Forest.

 

I also predict LIV will be cast aside by PIF now. They have what they want so why do they need Normans tour?

[So_Cal]

1 minute ago, philly2kuk said:

I’d already gotten to that point last year. This year I’ve watched the masters, couple of hours of the pga before going to bed (was obvious early on Koepka was going to win) and an hour here or there of the odd tour event.

 

I’ll try the US open and the Open, but if we see another runaway winner they’ll be going off. Won’t be watching the Ryder cup.

 

For my interest in my humble opinion, the game needs a new superstar that wins regularly and is exciting to watch. We’re just in a lull now as we were between Jack and Tiger where there are many good players but no superstars. And nobody say Rory, he hasn’t won a major in donkeys and has more squirrels in his head than in the whole of Sherwood Forest.

 

I also predict LIV will be cast aside by PIF now. They have what they want so why do they need Normans tour?

Good points.  I think an equipment rollback (not just ball) would allow for true talent to shine and maybe more stars.  I realize not everyone agrees with that.  It’s just a thought.  Anyway I’m getting real sick of the leadership and the players.  People like golf not the drama. 

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

38 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

The repercussions are for breaking the rules of the PGAT. Nothing to do with Saudi money. 

Do we know which rules? Playing elsewhere without a release maybe?

[Chanceman]

2 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

$50 million each isn't even close to enough with the new PIF money coming to the players. You need to up that factor by 7-10X. 

 

And that league would make no money just like the LIV Tour never did unless you got every single star player who stayed on the PGA Tour to move. 

Sure but look how Liv has wormed its way back. Rory Jon Scottie Jordan and Hideki would be a good breakaway from the new group to start up . Just saying if those guys wanted to get some of their own back and stick it to Jay and co they could take a big offer to play, let’s say 54 hole exhibition matches. Jay and the Saudis would have to tempt them back somehow. What’s good for the goose etc etc.

[notsohard]

He got told...

 

https://nybreaking.com/rory-mcilroy-was-told-to-f-off-by-grayson-murray-during-tuesdays-stormy-merger-meeting/

[philly2kuk]

14 minutes ago, notsohard said:

He got told...

 

https://nybreaking.com/rory-mcilroy-was-told-to-f-off-by-grayson-murray-during-tuesdays-stormy-merger-meeting/

Was all a bit of fun apparently as they were seen laughing together afterwards.

[Dicka]

In light of Monahan saynig he didn't think there would be much crossover of players between the PGAT and LIV, my question...what is the point of all of this then? Are we just going to see more of the same with the occasional small change...and maybe some expansion of the team conept? Because if that's the case, this will just speed up my rapidly waning interest in the game.

[redfirebird08]

Watching this interview with golf's new boss, he seems like a very busy guy with all his duties on behalf of the Saudi government & people. Not sure if he will have a lot of time to micromanage the golf stuff, but guess we will see how it shakes out over time. 

 

 

[Thayneil]

On 6/6/2023 at 9:40 PM, tgoodspe1991 said:

One of the most hypocritical moves in sports I've ever seen. The fact that they're establishing a new for-profit entity just proves they're ready to fill their pockets.

when its settled and all the tours  come under one ownership what's to stop  the tour lowering prize money and really making a huge profit?

 

Its  a commercial   entity so  all is fair?

[Thayneil]

1 hour ago, Cactus Jack said:

Do we know which rules? Playing elsewhere without a release maybe?

quite soon there will be no releases, since there will be no where else to play

 

Game set and match?

[Chanceman]

Why even have a tour? Just individual tournaments. Players play where they want, THAT would be properly competitive. But I guess the players like the security of having a “card”. There has to be a better way without some ghouls controlling it all.

[EagleAteBirdie]

19 hours ago, EagleGSU said:

Rory seems like a really annoying person.

 

Yep, a really cheap dig by Rory with a point that had nothing to do with Grayson's argument.

 

He has become the entitled, over-talented, can't get over the line, poster boy for Golf.

[vtpachyderm]

13 hours ago, IndyArcher said:

So does anyone else remember when the whole reason that LIV was terrible was because they were backed by the PIF, and the PIF invests specifically FOR the Saudis and the Saudis are terrible people? 

 

And now I seem to be reading that the reason that LIV is terrible is because LIV is terrible, but it's okay that PIF is a partner in this merger with the PGA because, even though they invest specifically for the Saudis, at least they aren't LIV. 

 

This is the most mind-boggling show of self-righteous hypocrisy I've even seen among golfers filled with integrity! 

 

On the flip side, watching the magical transformation of rigid golfers into miraculously flexible, mental gymnasts is rather entertaining!

 

 

This sums it up perfectly.

 

Professional golf trying to sell itself as a game of integrity has always made me laugh - maybe at one point way back when (definitely before I started playing), but modern professional golf is all about the money - morals and ethics be damned.  Doesn't matter if you're a top dog, fighting for your card, monday Q's, or a YouTube golfer - it's all about the bank account.

 

And Rory's statement of 'just play better' is it wrong? It's not like they didn't know the rules of the game getting into it did they?

 

Just to clarify - my enjoyment of the game of golf doesn't come from what happens at the professional level. That is there to entertain me and that's it. I feel more for my club pro, the instructor on the range, the people running my club, and to a certain extent the LPGA/LET - but not the PGAT/DPWT/LIV/KFT and that ecosystem.

[Bye]

A lot of Rory bashing, bit harsh in my books. 

 

I thought his press conference was really good, measured and thoughtful answers adding details opinion and context to what is going on.  

 

He has put his head above the parapet in the past year for something he believes in. If money was all he cared about he could have gotten a huge pay out from LIV, probably could have named his price, but as he said he wasn't even made an offer. 

 

Say what you like about him, but not many professional athletes or public persona's speak as freely and as honestly as he does.

[JungleJimbo]