How can most golfers possibly follow the rules of golf and maintain

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[North Butte]

The only Rule that seriously impacts pace of play would be returning the spot of a previous shot if you lost a ball and did not hit a provisional. Which nobody does or should do on a crowded course outside of format tournament play.

 

In the most recent Rules revision, USGA provides a model local rule for use in casual play. In simplest terms, if you can't find your ball you drop one in the fairway at about the same distance you believe yours to be lost.

 

Most of the stuff hackers do outside the Rules are either time neutral or actually take more time. It doesn't take any longer to play your ball down than to roll it in the fairway (especially those jokers who will roll it around to 4 or 5 different spots before settling on one). It doesn't take any longer not to hit a breakfast ball. I guess picking up putts (gimmes) saves a bit of time but it's trivial unless the person picking up the putt is one of those slow-playing idiots who fiddle around with alignement lines forever before each putt. 

 

Nobody routinely ignores the Rules of Golf to save time. They ignore the Rules of Golf because they want to shoot a lower score. 

 

In any case, don't wait around for USGA to tell you you're not a good enough golfer to follow the Rules. Nobody gives a crap whether you follow the Rules or not, just do your thing.

Edited August 7, 2023 by North Butte

[iacas]

Like @North Butte I reject the premise.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

46 minutes ago, North Butte said:

The only Rule that seriously impacts pace of play would be returning the spot of a previous shot if you lost a ball and did not hit a provisional. Which nobody does or should do on a crowded course outside of format tournament play.

 

In the most recent Rules revision, USGA provides a model local rule for use in casual play. In simplest terms, if you can't find your ball you drop one in the fairway at about the same distance you believe yours to be lost.

 

Most of the stuff hackers do outside the Rules are either time neutral or actually take more time. It doesn't take any longer to play your ball down than to roll it in the fairway (especially those jokers who will roll it around to 4 or 5 different spots before settling on one). It doesn't take any longer not to hit a breakfast ball. I guess picking up putts (gimmes) saves a bit of time but it's trivial unless the person picking up the putt is one of those slow-playing idiots who fiddle around with alignement lines forever before each putt. 

 

Nobody routinely ignores the Rules of Golf to save time. They ignore the Rules of Golf because they want to shoot a lower score. 

 

In any case, don't wait around for USGA to tell you you're not a good enough golfer to follow the Rules. Nobody gives a crap whether you follow the Rules or not, just do your thing.

Losing a ball is a huge penalty so everyone should get their 3 minutes to look AND be entitled to have their group look.  (See the ranger thread complaining about this).   The new local rule still treats it as equivalents to OOB.  It should be treated as unplayable from where you think it should be IMO.  And that’s what 95% of golfers do, even ones who ostensibly follow the rules.  Luckily they don’t use their allocated 3 minutes or have their group help them for 3 minutes on every lost ball for this reason.
 

If everyone putted out everything it would add another 10-30 minutes to most groups of 4.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[sui generis]

Oh, dear, here we go again (for the umpteenth time in the last twenty years) the "Rules am stupid" person shows up out of nowhere. Well-meaning people try to help, but it doubles down. 🙄

[596]

I'll agree to disagree with the reason lots of guys don't follow the rules to the tee.  It's to save time not to lower scores. 

 

We give putts out to about 15 inches.  We don't lay clubs on the ground and mark with a tee when taking club length or 2 of relief. Just come close and move on. Stuff along those lines will save time, not lower a score. 

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

10 minutes ago, sui generis said:

Oh, dear, here we go again (for the umpteenth time in the last twenty years) the "Rules am stupid" person shows up out of nowhere. Well-meaning people try to help, but it doubles down. 🙄

If there’s any other good threads on this topic feel free to link them and I’ll delete. 
 

“Well-meaning”’ is admirable, but it doesn’t make them infallible.

 

Anyone who doesn’t think playing by the book would significantly slow down most 4somes either only plays with single digits or better, or is just wrong.

 

The better rebuttal would be that there are speed-increasing habits that most golfers could pick up that would make up for it.

 

If you have any input actually related to the topic, please share.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

2 minutes ago, 596 said:

I'll agree to disagree with the reason lots of guys don't follow the rules to the tee.  It's to save time not to lower scores. 

 

We give putts out to about 15 inches.  We don't lay clubs on the ground and mark with a tee when taking club length or 2 of relief. Just come close and move on. Stuff along those lines will save time, not lower a score. 

I usually see the putts given grow to closer 2.5 feet as a round goes on.  If it’s for a bogey or worse sometimes people just start picking up 3-4 footers by the back 9.  Not saying this is true for your group(s).

 

 

[sui generis]

7 minutes ago, 596 said:

We don't lay clubs on the ground and mark with a tee when taking club length or 2 of relief.

 

Show me the Rule that requires that a player measure. (I'll save you the trouble. All the Rules require is that the player drops within the correct relief area.)

[sui generis]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

I usually see the putts given grow to closer 2.5 feet as a round goes on.  If it’s for a bogey or worse sometimes people just start picking up 3-4 footers by the back 9.  Not saying this is true for your group(s).

 

 

 

If the hole diameter were changed to 3 feet, the peanut gallery would rise up and demand a 6 foot diameter hole and all 50 footers would be given. 😉

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

14 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

If the hole diameter were changed to 3 feet, the peanut gallery would rise up and demand a 6 foot diameter hole and all 50 footers would be given. 😉

I’m not advocating a larger hole.  
 

I don’t think it would be unreasonable for the USGA to declare 18 inches and in can be considered one stroke in casual but handicap rounds.  Or something along those lines.

 

I’m not advocating for that necessarily.  
 

I do think the lost ball rule should be changed though.  Especially considering it’s almost impossible for the pros we watch on tv to lose a ball.  A 2 stroke penalty is hard to swallow.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[sui generis]

27 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

I don’t think it would be unreasonable for the USGA to declare 18 inches and in can be considered one stroke in casual but handicap rounds.  Or something along those lines.

 

They're way ahead of you. Look up Most Likely Score . . . while that doesn't show up on the TV colf circus, it can work for you:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---what-score-do-i-post-when-hole-is-not-completed-.html

Edited August 7, 2023 by sui generis

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

4 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

They're way ahead of you. Look up Most Likely Score . . . while that doesn't show up on the TV colf circus, it can work for you:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---what-score-do-i-post-when-hole-is-not-completed-.html

I guess one could argue due to pace of play pressure they don’t have time to putt out…. Never heard it applied that way though 

[sui generis]

Just now, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

I guess one could argue due to pace of play pressure they don’t have time to putt out…. Never heard it applied that way though 

 

Pace of play is nothing more than a cheap excuse for wanting to post a 79 instead of a 99. The person who says playing by the Rules is too slow is deluding themself. Ditch it, and look elsewhere.

[otto6457]

Imagine how fast any sport could be played if they didn't play by the rules. 

 

This entire thread is laughable if you think playing by the rules is the reason we have 5 hour rounds on most munis on a weekend.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

5 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

Imagine how fast any sport could be played if they didn't play by the rules. 

 

This entire thread is laughable if you think playing by the rules is the reason we have 5 hour rounds on most munis on a weekend.

Oh trust me I know there are other better ways to reduce round time.

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

8 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

Imagine how fast any sport could be played if they didn't play by the rules. 

 

This entire thread is laughable if you think playing by the rules is the reason we have 5 hour rounds on most munis on a weekend.

The problem with golf is 95% of people use differing rules… when it comes to measuring handicap.  Partly due to wanting artificially lower their scores and partially due to pace of play.

 

When playing other sports, handicaps aren’t involved.

 

The harsh reality is that if everyone did follow the rules of golf to a t, round times would increase noticeably.  That is my thesis and there’s only been one real attempt in this thread to dispute it.

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[TrueBlue4Lyfe]

25 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Pace of play is nothing more than a cheap excuse for wanting to post a 79 instead of a 99. The person who says playing by the Rules is too slow is deluding themself. Ditch it, and look elsewhere.

For a single digit handicap you are correct, playing by the rules isn’t going to make you play noticeably slower.  Except for the days your driver is off on a tight wooded course without OB.  
 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by TrueBlue4Lyfe

[Georgie Z]

I think most people don’t know all the rules anyways.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

 

Your entire premise is flawed.

 

It is easy AND quick to play by the Rules provided you KNOW the Rules.

 

THAT is where the problem is.

 

I believe 80% of the golfers on the course don't know the difference between the nearest point of relief and the nicest point of relief. (Hint: There IS no nicest point of relief).

 

And whenever they're "stumped", which is quite often, they have to convene a conference among their group,,,,,,,, and then figure out which of the 4 differing opinions is the one they should follow.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Losing a ball is a huge penalty so everyone should get their 3 minutes to look AND be entitled to have their group look.  (See the ranger thread complaining about this).  

 

The new local rule still treats it as equivalents to OOB.  It should be treated as unplayable from where you think it should be IMO. 

 

Not exactly. Without the new local rule you would have to go back and hit another ball (stroke and distance) and you might hit THAT one (lost or) OB too - keep trying.

 

As for taking it as an unplayable, how about when you hit it into a thicket of trees. Not too dense but not sparse either. Several trees are close together right where you ball appeared to be lost, but about 10 feet or so to the right there is a clear shot to the green.

 

Let me guess where YOU would "estimate" where your ball had been "lost". LOL

[Colin L]

43 minutes ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

The problem with golf is 95% of people use differing rules… when it comes to measuring handicap.  Partly due to wanting artificially lower their scores and partially due to pace of play.

 

When playing other sports, handicaps aren’t involved.

 

The harsh reality is that if everyone did follow the rules of golf to a t, round times would increase noticeably.  That is my thesis and there’s only been one real attempt in this thread to dispute it.

 It's  your thesis (or more accurately hypothesis) for you to prove, not for others to dispute.  For example,  can you reference any studies of the times rules-following golfers take as opposed to liberty-taking golfers?  

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, 596 said:

 We don't lay clubs on the ground and mark with a tee when taking club length or 2 of relief. Just come close and move on. Stuff along those lines will save time, not lower a score. 

 

In most cases exact measuring is not needed but sometimes it is. But like most other things this can also be performed when the other players are hitting their balls. Saves much more time in general.

[North Butte]

8 hours ago, 596 said:

We don't lay clubs on the ground and mark with a tee when taking club length or 2 of relief. Just come close and move on. Stuff along those lines will save time, not lower a score. 

The Rules do not require all that laying down clubs, sticking tees in the ground and other elaborate nonsense. That's a bunch of junk people pick up from watching golf on TV (the source of most slow play memes IMO). 

 

The Rules say drop a ball within two club lengths, no closer to the hole. Just eyeball it and do it like a normal person. Nobody's watching on TV to call in and say you accidentally were 2mm closer to the hole or you dropped from half an inch above or below knee level or whatever. 

 

Same thing for putting out. If you are interested in pace of play, step up to that 2-footer and putt the darned ball. It takes 5 seconds. You don't have to go through all the Kabuki theater stuff you see on TV before every little putt. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by North Butte

[North Butte]

9 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Losing a ball is a huge penalty so everyone should get their 3 minutes to look AND be entitled to have their group look.  (See the ranger thread complaining about this).   The new local rule still treats it as equivalents to OOB.  It should be treated as unplayable from where you think it should be IMO.

The Rules of Golf do not require you to search for a ball for 3 minutes or even to look at all. You can simply proceed to take the lost ball penalty (including the model local rule if it's in effect for your round) and not waste any time at all.

 

Again, that's going to increase your score. But recruiting your entire foursome to look for a lost ball is 100% totally you attempting to save yourself two strokes. It's not required by the Rules of Golf.

[Augster]

Play match play. Play maximum score. Play stableford. 
 

Those forms of play are postable for handicap and allow you to not have to putt out in some cases. 

[jlbos83]

Totally faulty hypothesis, in my opinion.  I shoot around 90.  I follow the rules.  I hit provisional balls.  When using the model local rule, I think I am getting a break, it assumes my second effort would be in the fairway!  Unless it's critical, I will use a pace as a club length, knowing I am being conservative.  

I have followed the rules since I was shooting in the 100s, I figured it was the only way to know if I was getting better.  And I always kept up with the group I was in (even when they were much better golfers).  Following the rules does not equate to being slow.

[larrybud]

21 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

 

Played a 4 some official tournament today (GAM Golf Day at Polo Fields in Ann Arbor). Putt everything out. Scores were 77, 87, 92, 98, and we played in about 4:15, 15 min under the allotted time.

Only local rule was drop in the FW + 2 strokes for OB, which the 98 shooter did 4 times.  Did it speed things up? Maybe by 5 minutes or so.

[ShortGolfer]

The most time consuming activity is looking for lost balls.  I play $1 golf balls and don't worry about losing them.

All I need to do to speed up my round is to drop balls and take stroke and distance penalties instead of looking.

[North Butte]

When they lowered the limit in the Rules for time to look for balls, I made the comment at the time, "Three minutes? Why would I spend that long looking for a ball?". 

 

Time spent looking for golf balls is time that could be better spent playing golf. 

 

I remember about a year after I took up playing golf, I bumped into my teaching pro (who later became a good friend) at a local golf course. He was heading out with his son to play a round and he asked if I wanted to join them.

 

Before we teed off he told me, "Just so you know, I don't look for golf balls. No offense but if you lose a ball just drop one and keep it moving". I told that was fine by me. Still is.