How can most golfers possibly follow the rules of golf and maintain

[Imp]

23 hours ago, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

Which rules do you think take too long that substantially add time to a round as opposed to time spent doing *other* stuff?

 

Almost all amateur golfers aren't losing time because of following the rules. It's everything else that has nothing to do with the rules. In which I mean, time spent on the next 17 holes of getting to the next tee, and taking 2 min per golfer to get their act together while they gab, take a drink, look at their GPS, looking in their bag trying to figure out which club... talk about (insert very interesting topic here) etc... and the hole is wide open? (They say I play too fast - If it's not a par 3, or a really short par 4, I'm hitting driver - out of cart, pull driver, at tee within 30 seconds).

 

On the course, approach or 2nd/3rd shots, (not on tee) ...  the 40 seconds should begin once they find their ball. Then... "evaluate, pull club, hit" within the 40 seconds. Many treat the below as "I have 40 seconds once I address the ball."
 

Quote

A player should prepare in advance for the next stroke and be ready to play when it is their turn.

 

When it is the player’s turn to play:

It is recommended that the player make the stroke in no more than 40 seconds after they are (or should be) able to play without interference or distraction, and the player should usually be able to play more quickly than that and is encouraged to do so.

 

 

Also, on the green, do your reads while others are doing theirs, and not disturbing their putting. Don't wait until it's your turn, and THEN start reading.  One players typical green action this weekend was get to the green, mark, then... wait for his turn. Once it was his turn, read from 4 sides, get to his ball, stand over it, and THEN take off his glove, then backing up and taking a final read. (This one player also wouldn't put his glove back on until he was physically on the tee box, 30+ seconds fighting with it, and THEN practice swings). 

 

The thing I see most time -rules wise- is looking for lost balls. One needs to pay attention to the clock in the group, and when time is up, don't say "OK" (but keep looking). 3 min is 3 min. 

 

But no doubt about it, more time is lost doing other stuff, than actually anything in the rules allow for. 

 

They;re my friends, but sometimes they drive me nuts.

 

 

[bcjim]

The biggest factor in T rounds taking forever is definitely putting everything and the associated grinding on those putts.

 

Most people just don't do that in casual rounds. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:22 PM, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

Losing a ball is a huge penalty so everyone should get their 3 minutes to look AND be entitled to have their group look.  (See the ranger thread complaining about this).   The new local rule still treats it as equivalents to OOB.  It should be treated as unplayable from where you think it should be IMO.  And that’s what 95% of golfers do, even ones who ostensibly follow the rules.  Luckily they don’t use their allocated 3 minutes or have their group help them for 3 minutes on every lost ball for this reason.
 

If everyone putted out everything it would add another 10-30 minutes to most groups of 4.

Wait, what? If everyone putted out everything it would add an additional 10-30 minutes? You can't be serious right? You aren't serious right? Please tell me you aren't serious? How did you come up with those numbers?

Edited August 8, 2023 by I'_rather_be_golfing

[naval2006]

On 8/6/2023 at 9:32 PM, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

First time I ever hear this.  In my part of the woods we always play by the rules because most days there's a tourney going.  The fastest players at my course are the oldest, which means they shoot on the higher side but walk fast and are always ready to play.  Most am golfers save a handful of better players compete and keep the pace of play.  

 

On probable OB or lost ball everybody plays a provisional to avoid walking back. However, on practice days things are more relaxed and golfers don't care if the ball is in or out unless there's a match going on.  Apparently competition sets the pace for rules and playing time.   

[SNIPERBBB]

On 8/6/2023 at 11:08 PM, otto6457 said:

Imagine how fast any sport could be played if they didn't play by the rules. 

 

This entire thread is laughable if you think playing by the rules is the reason we have 5 hour rounds on most munis on a weekend.

Youve never seen AAU basketball tournaments have you? lol

[SNIPERBBB]

On 8/6/2023 at 10:02 PM, sui generis said:

 

Show me the Rule that requires that a player measure. (I'll save you the trouble. All the Rules require is that the player drops within the correct relief area.)

Only time you see people actually measuring, and placing a tee,  is on TV because they're playing for serious cash and dont wont to get DQ'd or take a penalty. That's why they always call rules officials over. The players have a good understanding of the rules, calling the RO over and getting a ruling shields them from liabilty(with some exception). Or people trying to get maximum amount of relief.

[wadesworld]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:32 PM, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

 

I've played with a lot of golfers over my lifetime.  With the exception of stroke-and-distance, I've never had a single golfer complain following the rules takes too long.  As others have said, there are quick solutions to stroke-and-distance (including not hitting it there in the first place).

 

I've found a majority of golfers only follow a subset of the rules. In essence, they make up their own rules:

• Breakfast balls
• One mulligan per nine
• Drop one where the ball went out/was lost and charge yourself a single penalty stroke (if any)
• Inside the leather is good
• Drop on the green side of a yellow-staked penalty area
• Drop wherever you want on "line of flight"
• Putts raked towards the hole and missed are picked up with "that was good" and counted
• Any ball near a root, rock, etc is moved without penalty
• Balls rolled over in fairway and rough
• And of course, "give me a double" when you're hitting 6 on a par 4 from 30 feet off the green.  (This one actually does help pace of play and is encouraged, but I'd still argue it's not their primary motivation)

 

They make up these "rules we like" not because of pace of play, but because their ego can't take the hit of following the rules. They've told all their buddies they're a "10 handicap," so no way they're going to write down the 95 they actually scored.  I realize that's harsh, but it's a fact for a LOT of golfers.  

[DFinch]

Like others have said, slow play isn't because of the rules. The unexpected lost ball is probably the one example and the revision fixes that for most situations.

Take 30 seconds less time per player per tee box, or green (or 15 seconds less on each) and your group saves 36 minutes over 18 holes. It doesn't even have to be from your "routine". Groups have a habit of arriving at the next tee box like they just summited Everest and lollygag around like that time doesn't count. Same thing happens on the greens, like you've made it to the "end" of the hole so now it's okay to slow everything down and take your time. You don't have to rush, but 30-60 seconds saved by each player on each hole is 36-72 minutes off your round, providing you're not stuck behind the train created by an earlier group not following this and hosing the entire tee sheet. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

If slow play is caused by the rules. It’s not because of the rules itself. It’s more so the people not understanding the rules. 

[bcjim]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:47 PM, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Wait, what? If everyone putted out everything it would add an additional 10-30 minutes? You can't be serious right? You aren't serious right? Please tell me you aren't serious? How did you come up with those numbers?

Easily in tournaments where everything is putted. So possibly also in money games etc 

Just 2 out of 4 guys having to grind over a 3 or 4 footer on half the holes is easily another 10-15 min. Then,  guys will be marking and grinding twice on some holes to avoid 4 putting...it adds up fast.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:32 PM, TrueBlue4Lyfe said:

a reasonable pace of play?

 

It’s almost impossible for groups above single digit handicaps. 
 

Why doesn’t the USGA adjust the rules so that people can play by the rules and play quickly?

 

Or should golf just tell most golfers that following the exact rules isn’t important?

 

 

This is silly and has to be made up just to start a thread and troll reactions.

 

How do 12 caps hold anyone up following the rules? You think they are constantly incurring penalties? Don't know how to handle them?  You are just making up your assertion.

 

Golfers who follow the rules, in my experience, are also efficient players and don't waste a lot of time with the few "rulings" they encounter.

 

Most golfers don't follow the rules and the source of slow play and etiquette issues come out of that group way more often than not - but not saying that is representative of that group by any means - even the not follow the rules gang can play at a good pace and have a good time.

 

"USGA adjust the rules" - not enough eye rolling emoji's.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[North Butte]

Unless OP was trolling, I can only assume he or she conflates "the rules" with "doing things they way they do it on TV". 

 

It's certainly true that if a foursome on a public course played the ball down, putted out and insisted on imitating Patrick Cantley over every single shot while shooting in the 90's or higher (which they would if they strictly followed the rules) they'd be out there 6-7 hours. 

 

But it's the TV-inspired self-indulgent time wasting that's the culprit, not going ahead and hitting your 2-1/2 foot bogey putt instead of picking it up. 

[rzitup]

The rules of golf have almost nothing to do with pace of play.  I play three times a week at a very challenging course with plenty of OB, long grass and hazards.  I play with 2-18 handicaps, the average probably about a 12.  We strictly play by the rules of golf and DO NOT give putts that arent basically hanging on the edge. 

We play fivesomes mostly, an occasional sixsome, and never less than four.  In the 100 rounds of golf I have played this year, we have maybe on a handful of occasions, played in over four hours.

Incompetence and self awareness are the reason for terrible pace of play.  

[charli]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:47 PM, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Wait, what? If everyone putted out everything it would add an additional 10-30 minutes? You can't be serious right? You aren't serious right? Please tell me you aren't serious? How did you come up with those numbers?

One person no. But an entire foursome? 

[SNIPERBBB]

27 minutes ago, charli said:

One person no. But an entire foursome? 

I play money games and everyone putts out and we still play in 3:30. Putting isn't the issue.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

3 hours ago, charli said:

One person no. But an entire foursome? 

No at least not from my experiences. I highly doubt an entire foursome will be looking at 3-4ft putts every single hole. It would need to be just about every single hole in order for it to add up. Unless you are really overthinking a 3-4ft putt that’s not a rules issue. That’s 💯 a personal issue. Just think about it. If your putt comes up 3-4ft short or long past the hole. You already have an idea if there will be a break or no break. 

[North Butte]

11 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

No at least not from my experiences. I highly doubt an entire foursome will be looking at 3-4ft putts every single hole. It would need to be just about every single hole in order for it to add up. Unless you are really overthinking a 3-4ft putt that’s not a rules issue. That’s 💯 a personal issue. Just think about it. If your putt comes up 3-4ft short or long past the hole. You already have an idea if there will be a break or no break. 

There used to be a guy at my home course, nicest person you'd ever want to meet, but he was a human rain delay pace-of-play-wise. He both moved slow and also has an endless "routine" for every kind of shot. Fortunately he usually shot in the 70's, if he'd had been playing bogey golf I can't imagine how long that would take.

 

I was with him one time when he said he was in a hurry. Needed to get finished and get home because company was coming for dinner. The very next hole he had a 10-foot birdie putt. He cleaned the ball with his towel, cleaned the putter face, wiped down the grip, did a 360 around the hole looking at it from all sides, took a practice stroke and then hit it. The ball slid by and finished a foot past the hole.

 

He then did the entire routine again. All the towel work, another 360, practice stroke, then tapped it in. I was barely containing the urge to laugh out loud at him. This is him IN A HURRY. A foursome of golfers like that could save a lot of time playing gimmes inside, oh I don't know, maybe 6-8 feet? 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

4 minutes ago, North Butte said:

There used to be a guy at my home course, nicest person you'd ever want to meet, but he was a human rain delay pace-of-play-wise. He both moved slow and also has an endless "routine" for every kind of shot. Fortunately he usually shot in the 70's, if he'd had been playing bogey golf I can't imagine how long that would take.

 

I was with him one time when he said he was in a hurry. Needed to get finished and get home because company was coming for dinner. The very next hole he had a 10-foot birdie putt. He cleaned the ball with his towel, cleaned the putter face, wiped down the grip, did a 360 around the hole looking at it from all sides, took a practice stroke and then hit it. The ball slid by and finished a foot past the hole.

 

He then did the entire routine again. All the towel work, another 360, practice stroke, then tapped it in. I was barely containing the urge to laugh out loud at him. This is him IN A HURRY. A foursome of golfers like that could save a lot of time playing gimmes inside, oh I don't know, maybe 6-8 feet? 

You have patience and high tolerance. Mad respect to you. I would have went bat s*** crazy.

[North Butte]

31 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

You have patience and high tolerance. Mad respect to you. I would have went bat s*** crazy.

It was just me an him out for a late afternoon nine holes. 

 

On occasion he would play with our usual group and at some point one of the de facto leaders of the group took him aside and suggested he needed to cut out all the faffing around if he wanted to play with us. So he didn't come back any more. Everyone thought that was a good outcome 🤐

 

It's one thing when I'm out there just goofing around after work, it's quite another when it's four guys trying to get around in a reasonable time while playing with a little money on the line. 

[sittingbull]

Just a thought..

Why not have a set of rules for non pros vs pros??

 

[DaveLeeNC]

1 hour ago, sittingbull said:

Just a thought..

Why not have a set of rules for non pros vs pros??

 

 

The 'Local Rules' option is kind of the path to that end. But it is limited in that not just 'anything that you can think of' is allowed to fit in that framework. 

 

Or just make up your own which is something that I view as perfectly OK if you are not posting for handicap and your competitors (if any) agree. For example in the last years of my Dad's life he literally could not get out of (as in get his body out of) many bunkers. None of his playing partners were in much better shape or liked bunker play either. So their rule was that bunkers were played like lateral hazards (the word used at that time). Note that this was prior to the 2019 rules. 

 

dave

[596]

I had to stop playing in a 4some I'd been playing with for many years. 1 guy finally got to me with his pace of play. He was like watching paint dry.  But everything he does in life is dog slow, not just his golf.  When playing bad one day he looked straight away at me and as serious as he could, stated "I know what's wrong today, I have to slow down".  I almost passed out. I quit playing with him shortly after. 

 

Most rules won't slow play, it's the slow players that slow down play. 

 

2 weeks ago the director of our money game changed tee off order.  I quit after 9 holes as the group in front was 3 holes down at the turn.  Told the director that I wouldn't be playing anymore in his games due to that disaster.  😆 he changed the order back for the next week. We finished out of sight of the group behind, 3:40.  We do not rush, we follow the rules but we play ready golf. 

[larrybud]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, sittingbull said:

Just a thought..

Why not have a set of rules for non pros vs pros??

 

 

Weekend hackers aren't following "pro rules" anyway.

 

[jdl]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, sittingbull said:

Just a thought..

Why not have a set of rules for non pros vs pros??

 

I think someone alluded to this earlier, but how often do the "rules" even come up during a round? Not all that often for me, other than taking a drop for a ball in a hazard or maybe relief from a cart path. But both of those aren't that tough to follow or at least come close enough to correct for casual rounds.

[SNIPERBBB]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, sittingbull said:

Just a thought..

Why not have a set of rules for non pros vs pros??

 

Most people make-up their own rules anyways.  USGA isnt going to send their SWAT force out to stop people from doing so. I really hate bifurcation. I officiatie basketball and softball and there's so many rule sets that it drives you crazy when you're constantly having to explain to players coaches that X is a NBA rule or a NCAA mens or a NCAA womens rule, NFHS rule, FIBA rule. Then softball you got USA(formerly ASA), NSA, USSA, NCAA, Little League, and more.  

[charli]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:41 PM, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

No at least not from my experiences. I highly doubt an entire foursome will be looking at 3-4ft putts every single hole. It would need to be just about every single hole in order for it to add up. Unless you are really overthinking a 3-4ft putt that’s not a rules issue. That’s 💯 a personal issue. Just think about it. If your putt comes up 3-4ft short or long past the hole. You already have an idea if there will be a break or no break. 

I 100% agree with you, playing tournament golf guys stand over putts. Rounds go extra long 

[charli]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:01 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

I play money games and everyone putts out and we still play in 3:30. Putting isn't the issue.

Exceptions don’t make the rule 

[dvq9654]

Maybe I’m playing at the wrong courses, but “the rules” are never what slows people down. People have no clue what the rules are and don’t even try to follow them. What slows people down is:

 

- being bad at golf 

- having no clue about etiquette or pace of play

- having no care about others 

- hitting tons of extra shots (aka not following the rules)

- searching for balls forever (aka not following the rules)

- not focusing on hitting your shot when it’s your turn 

- stopping to talk with the cart girl ever chance you get 

- drinking too much 

- not being able to tell where you actually hit the ball so spending inordinate amount of time finding your ball

- and, again, for emphasis, being bad at golf 

 

notice not a single of these have to do with following the rules. If anything, a couple are cause you are not following the rules / etiquette 

 

I don’t say this cause I think the rules of golf are perfect. If anything, I think they are too complicated for the average player to comprehend or follow, but to think people are slower cause they are following them is off base compared to my experience.
 

The day I hear a guy call for a provisional on my local courses will be the day pigs fly 

[SNIPERBBB]

12 hours ago, charli said:

Exceptions don’t make the rule 

It kills the rule in this case. It just looks like putting slows things down because all players are  all together in the same area. So it gives the perception of being slow.

[SNIPERBBB]

12 hours ago, charli said:

Exceptions don’t make the rule 

It kills the rule in this case. It just looks like putting slows things down because all players are  all together in the same area. So it gives the perception of being slow.