PSA - Always declare a provisional... just in case

[2bGood]

I don't want to steal another thread...

 

Sometimes my playing partners make fun of me as they will see the ball go OB, but I will still always declare my next shot a provisional as weird stuff happens and there is not a downside to declaring a provisional. 

 

My best story about this is being in the club championship, hitting the ball clearly OB and see it bounce down the street. Still I call my next one a provisional and we have a bit of a laugh. As I am walking towards the hole, someone walking up the streets says "hey, a ball bounced down the street, hit the light pole and is up there" pointing towards the fairway.

 

Sure enough it was about a 370 yard drive, in play. I made birdie as I had short pitch into the green and was sure glad I could play my first ball.

 

On the flip side in a stroke play event this year a gentleman in my group appears to hit one OB. He goes to hit a second tee shot. I asked him "Is that your provisional?" (hint, hint). The guys say "No, the first one is long gone". So I let it go. 

 

We find his first one and he wants to play it. Of course I was the bad guy when I told him he could not play the first ball. 🤨

Edited September 25, 2023 by 2bGood

[davep043]

12 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

I don't want to steal another thread...

 

Sometimes my playing partners make fun of me as they will see the ball go OB, but I will still always declare my next shot a provisional. Weird stuff happens.

 

My best story on this is being in the club championship, hitting the ball clearly OB, see it bounce down the street. Still I call my next one a provisional. As I walking towards the hole, someone walking up the streets says "hey, a ball bounced down the street, hit the light pole and is up there" pointing towards the fairway.

 

Sure enough it was about a 370 yard drive, in play. I made birdie as I had short pitch into the green. 

 

On the flip side in a stroke play event this year a gentleman in my group appears to hit one OB. and Goes to hit a second tee shot. I asked him "Is that your provisional?" (hint, hint). The guys say "No, the first one is long gone". So I let it go. 

 

We find his first one and he wants to play it. Of course I was the bad guy when I told he could not. 🤨

I agree, in general, I rarely choose to hit #3 from the tee, I almost always call it a Provisional.  But we should all remember that there really are times when you don't want that Original Ball found.  When you know its in such a bad spot that you don't want to be forced to play it, when you know that the only realistic Unplayable Ball relief is Stroke and Distance, when you don't want to have to abandon your Provisional and march back to the tee when someone finds your Original Ball. So yes, most times you should give yourself a chance by playing a Provisional, but not without thinking about it first.

[Colin L]

Do you play a provisional when you know your ball is OOB?  Of course you don’t because you know it can’ t be a provisional.  Silly me for asking. 

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I don't want to steal another thread...

 

Sometimes my playing partners make fun of me as they will see the ball go OB, but I will still always declare my next shot a provisional as weird stuff happens and there is not downside to declaring a provisional. 

 

My best story about this is being in the club championship, hitting the ball clearly OB and see it bounce down the street. Still I call my next one a provisional and we have a bit of a laugh. As I am walking towards the hole, someone walking up the streets says "hey, a ball bounced down the street, hit the light pole and is up there" pointing towards the fairway.

 

Sure enough it was about a 370 yard drive, in play. I made birdie as I had short pitch into the green and was sure glad I could play my first ball.

 

On the flip side in a stroke play event this year a gentleman in my group appears to hit one OB. He goes to hit a second tee shot. I asked him "Is that your provisional?" (hint, hint). The guys say "No, the first one is long gone". So I let it go. 

 

We find his first one and he wants to play it. Of course I was the bad guy when I told he could not. 🤨

I recall a few times having to say that to an opponent, during Match play.  As I know it, a player must know his first ball is OB, then declare his next ball to be a Provisional.

[davep043]

58 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I recall a few times having to say that to an opponent, during Match play.  As I know it, a player must know his first ball is OB, then declare his next ball to be a Provisional.

Just to provide the appropriate wording, this is the first sentence of 16.3a:

"If a ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance"

The Player doesn't need to KNOW that his ball is OB, just that it might be OB, or Lost on the Course someplace other than a Penalty Area.  Next step, the Player MUST announce or indicate in some other clear way that he intends to play a Provisional.  If both of those aren't met, that next shot is played as Stroke and Distance.

[sui generis]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I recall a few times having to say that to an opponent, during Match play.  As I know it, a player must know his first ball is OB, then declare his next ball to be a Provisional.

You were quite wrong. Read Rule 18.3.

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, sui generis said:

You were quite wrong. Read Rule 18.3.

Good to know.  Funny though, all those years of match play and regional events, NOBODY, and I mean nobody ever told me otherwise.  Will read the rule.  Thank you.

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, davep043 said:

Just to provide the appropriate wording, this is the first sentence of 16.3a:

"If a ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance"

The Player doesn't need to KNOW that his ball is OB, just that it might be OB, or Lost on the Course someplace other than a Penalty Area.  Next step, the Player MUST announce or indicate in some other clear way that he intends to play a Provisional.  If both of those aren't met, that next shot is played as Stroke and Distance.

Thank you for the clarification.   Could have used that knowledge during my recent golf trip. 

 

Recently, my buddy hit a wild drive, thought it lost to OB, so I told him to hit a provisional…he did.  When we got to where it was thought his ball was OB, it wasn't.  Only he didn't like the junk it was in.  His provisional was in fairway 20yrds longer, he wanted to play it.  I said, he must play the original.  Wrong or right ????

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Thank you for the clarification.   Could have used that knowledge during my recent golf trip. 

 

Recently, my buddy hit a wild drive, thought it lost to OB, so I told him to hit a provisional…he did.  When we got to where it was thought his ball was OB, it wasn't.  Only he didn't like the junk it was in.  His provisional was in fairway 20yrds longer, he wanted to play it.  I said, he must play the original.  Wrong or right ????

You are correct.  Once the original ball is found in bounds, the provisional must be abandoned and he must proceed with the original ball (note: he doesn't have to play it, just proceed with it, such as using the unplayable Rule 19).

[kiwigolf72]

3 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Thank you for the clarification.   Could have used that knowledge during my recent golf trip. 

 

Recently, my buddy hit a wild drive, thought it lost to OB, so I told him to hit a provisional…he did.  When we got to where it was thought his ball was OB, it wasn't.  Only he didn't like the junk it was in.  His provisional was in fairway 20yrds longer, he wanted to play it.  I said, he must play the original.  Wrong or right ????

LOL

[Ignatius Reilly]

On 9/26/2023 at 3:10 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Thank you for the clarification.   Could have used that knowledge during my recent golf trip. 

 

Recently, my buddy hit a wild drive, thought it lost to OB, so I told him to hit a provisional…he did.  When we got to where it was thought his ball was OB, it wasn't.  Only he didn't like the junk it was in.  His provisional was in fairway 20yrds longer, he wanted to play it.  I said, he must play the original.  Wrong or right ????

Did he announce he was hitting a provisional?

 

Did he just hit another ball after you told him to hit a provisional?

 

If he said "okay" to your suggestion, is that good enough?

 

Was your suggestion "advice"?

 

Nit picky, but it makes a difference so I'd like to know.

[Newby]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:52 PM, Ignatius Reilly said:

1) If he said "okay" to your suggestion, is that good enough?

 

2) Was your suggestion "advice"?

 

1) I would say so.

 

" statements that make it clear that the player’s intent is to play a provisional ball are acceptable."

 

2) This in response to an enquiry I made some years ago to the R&A

 

"Suggesting to a player that he plays a provisional is not considered to be giving "advice" but rather, providing information on the Rules.  Such information is permitted and is considered good etiquette.  The statement should be of a casual nature, such as: "maybe you should hit a provisional", rather than counsel which could influence a player in determining his play."

Edited October 3, 2023 by Newby

[charli]

Please don’t. 

[Newby]

25 minutes ago, charli said:

Please don’t. 

Don't what?

Why not?

[charli]

6 minutes ago, Newby said:

Don't what?

Why not?

Takes too much time. 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, charli said:

Takes too much time. 

Sure if youre just playing hit-n-giggle golf.  If you're playing competition golf, it takes much longer to take the walk of shame back to the tee box than to hit a provisional, or three.

 

It only takes more time to hit a provisional if you take an inordinate amount of time to hit the second off the tee or you proceed to hit the provisionals into equally bad places where finding the balls are unlikely.f

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, charli said:

Takes too much time. 

I guess context always helps. I play stroke play events where local rule E5 is not in play. I also walk. It takes about 30 seconds to hit a provisional and about 5+ minutes to take stroke and distance penalty if you walk up and fin your ball is lost/ob.

 

The scenario I talked about was when you are nearly certain the ball is OB - you have to hit again anyway - declaring the second ball  a provisional, takes no extra time. All it does is provide you more options. 

 

Given this I am not how you could suggest not hitting a provisional in order to save time. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by 2bGood

[mshills]

3 hours ago, charli said:

Takes too much time. 

 

To play a provisional?  No way!

 

If I think my ball might be lost or out of bounds, I always loudly announce I'm playing a provisional, and play one.  I like to walk, and I'm not able to walk very fast, so I don't want to have to walk back to the tee under any circumstance.  In fact, I could not tell you the last time I had to make that walk.  It's been years.

[rogolf]

Is this five o'clock Charlie?

[Mudguard]

On 9/27/2023 at 9:29 AM, rogolf said:

You are correct.  Once the original ball is found in bounds, the provisional must be abandoned and he must proceed with the original ball (note: he doesn't have to play it, just proceed with it, such as using the unplayable Rule 19).

Does this still apply in matchplay?

My opponent hit one in awful area in bounds on a long par five. It would be difficult to find and even harder to extract. Piped his declared provisional straight down the middle and some 50m past mine. 
I duly walked into the junk and found it and he conceded the hole as he would have had to take an unplayable from the tee as there was nowhere to drop. 

What if he'd hit his third off the tee without declaring it a provisional? Does that mean it's now in play regardless?

[SNIPERBBB]

45 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Does this still apply in matchplay?

My opponent hit one in awful area in bounds on a long par five. It would be difficult to find and even harder to extract. Piped his declared provisional straight down the middle and some 50m past mine. 
I duly walked into the junk and found it and he conceded the hole as he would have had to take an unplayable from the tee as there was nowhere to drop. 

What if he'd hit his third off the tee without declaring it a provisional? Does that mean it's now in play regardless?

If he doesn't do anything to indicate it's a provisional, it is the ball in play and the original ball is now lost. 

[rogolf]

4 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

If he doesn't do anything to indicate it's a provisional, it is the ball in play and the original ball is now lost. 

You are correct.  However, being Rules pedantic, the original is not lost per se, but is no longer in play/abandoned.  The only way a ball is "lost" in the Rules is by not finding it within three minutes of searching.

[2bGood]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:26 PM, Mudguard said:

Does this still apply in matchplay?

My opponent hit one in awful area in bounds on a long par five. It would be difficult to find and even harder to extract. Piped his declared provisional straight down the middle and some 50m past mine. 
I duly walked into the junk and found it and he conceded the hole as he would have had to take an unplayable from the tee as there was nowhere to drop. 

What if he'd hit his third off the tee without declaring it a provisional? Does that mean it's now in play regardless?

Yes great scenario. One of those rare times when declaring a provisional is not a good idea. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by 2bGood

[davep043]

18 hours ago, rogolf said:

You are correct.  However, being Rules pedantic, the original is not lost per se, but is no longer in play/abandoned.  The only way a ball is "lost" in the Rules is by not finding it within three minutes of searching.

More important, that Original Ball has become a Wrong Ball as soon as another ball was put into play.