Practice strategy for weakness on par 3s

[RoyalMustang]

Looking at this data from my last 10 played, I am pretty weak on par 3's. This is for my last 10 played, 7000 yard course, and par 3's average just under 200 yards (177/192/212/210). I'm usually playing 7/6/5/5 irons in non-windy conditions.  

 

Is this pretty normal for a 4 cap? I'm giving up a lot of strokes on these par 3's. Is it just a matter of getting better contact with my long irons or should I focus my efforts on short game-up and down efficiency? On those long 210 yard par 3's, I'm doing well if I go 1/2 in getting on the green, and yesterday I was +2 on the par 3's. I lipped out 2 up and down putts from under 10 feet, had an easy 2-putt par, and drained a 20-footer to save on the 4th.

 

On one hand, if I had gotten within 2 or 3 feet on my save attempt chips, I would have saved those pars. On the other hand, if I had hit a better tee shot, I would have saved par and had a birdie chance. You can see that a birdie on a par 3 is very rare, roughly 1/10th as likely as me birdieing or better a par 5. 

 

 

[getitdaily]

Approach play needs work. 

 

And I guarantee that if you examine par 4 and par 5 approach shots with 4 and 5 irons you'll see more conservative strategy from yourself. 

 

We get on par3s and our mindset is "stick it". Something about the ball being on the tee and the "hole in 1 paradox". We get too aggressive and make dumb mistakes.

 

4i, 5i, 6i, and for you, 7i should be all about hitting the green and making a par. Conservative, not pin seeking. 

 

Or, just get better with the long irons in general...or move to hybrids at 4 and 5i.

[MelloYello]

#1

I consider our Par3's pretty long at 180-190. When you get out to 200+ that's just incredibly long for average players. Don't feel bad if you're chipping after an approach of that distance. Let's not pretend that a 200-yd approach shot isn't hard. 

 

If you're accurate enough to hit 40% of your GIRs at that range you're not hurting yourself as a single digit index. Scratch players are hitting 60% overall and that's including short Par4's and Par5's which help pad their GIR% stat. 

 

I'd focus on making sure I was aiming for parts of the green where my misses (chips) were the most manageable and just accept that it's going to take 2-3 good shots to earn a par. 

 

 

#2

Keep in mind that if the Par3s are that long, there should be other things working in your favor. In theory, you should have manageable Par4 opportunities with wedges and short irons or a course rating / slope that allows for a couple of bogeys along the way. 

 

So, I honestly wouldn't sweat it. Keep in mind Par3's are always going to play the hardest relative to par because nowhere else do we have such long approaches for a GIR. 

 

 

#3

IMHO, your problem isn't on Par3's. Look at how many bogeys and doubles you're making on Par4s! 

 

If you have ten Par4 holes per round you're averaging ~6 strokes over par for the round with only 47.5% being par or better. You've got to turn those 5's, 6's and 7's into better scores!

 

By comparison, you're only 2-over on the Par3 holes. That's not doing much damage considering the extreme difficulty of those 200-yd holes. 

 

 

.

Edited September 26, 2023 by MelloYello

[Hawkeye77]

So ball striking and short game.

[RoyalMustang]

27 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

#1

I consider our Par3's pretty long at 180-190. When you get out to 200+ that's just incredibly long for average players. Don't feel bad if you're chipping after an approach of that distance. Let's not pretend that a 200-yd approach shot isn't hard. 

 

If you're accurate enough to hit 40% of your GIRs at that range you're not hurting yourself as a single digit index. Scratch players are hitting 60% overall and that's including short Par4's and Par5's which help pad their GIR% stat. 

 

I'd focus on making sure I was aiming for parts of the green where my misses (chips) were the most manageable and just accept that it's going to take 2-3 good shots to earn a par. 

 

 

#2

That being said, if the Par3s are that long, there should be other things working in your favor. In theory, you should have manageable Par4 opportunities with wedges and short irons or a course rating / slope that allows for a couple of bogeys along the way. 

 

So, I honestly wouldn't sweat it. Keep in mind Par3's are always going to play the hardest relative to par because nowhere else do we have such long approaches for a GIR. 

 

 

#3

IMHO, your problem isn't on Par3's. Look at how many bogeys and doubles you're making on Par4s! 

 

If you have ten Par4 holes per round you're averaging ~6 strokes over par for the round with only 47.5% being par or better. You've got to turn those 5's, 6's and 7's into better scores!

 

By comparison, you're only 2-over on the Par3 holes. That's not doing much damage considering the extreme difficulty of those 200-yd holes. 

 

 

.

 

#1-thanks; that puts things into context. At my ability, hitting greens 50% of the time is possible and if I can get up and down 25% of the time, that's only one over for 4 holes and a "win". I can balance that with better-than-par play on the par 5s.  

 

#2-yes, I get a decent # of birdie looks on par 4s. Yesterday I had 7 out of 10 solid birdie looks (basically under 20 feet) and made 3 of those. Just staying away from the bad miss (see #3 below) puts me into a good position where I'm hitting an easy 54-degree on a 400-yard hole.  

 

#3-you are definitely correct. The big scores are due to my massive snap hook miss off the tee. I'm working on fixing it; I tend to move away behind the ball instead of hip up and back. It's most pronounced on tee shots and it's a 2-shot mistake most of the time. I'm gaining traction as I've figured out the bad movement causing it and the correct feel; I've only had 1 double in my last 33 holes. That's a crazy change for me as I've been averaging 3+ doubles a round. Last week, I had 4 doubles, one bogey, and the rest were par or birdie for a 79. Essentially, you are saying I need to avoid "the bad miss" which results in a big score. 

 

Everyone tells me "eliminate doubles" but when you have a snap hook that shows up due to a bad swing habit, there is only so much you can do w/o fixing the swing issue. 

 

 

[goin'low]

par3 always aim for middle of green

[Hawkeye77]

And it's all relative - I do think as a 4 cap, I'd expect your par 3 numbers to be stronger, but with all things you must do well to maintain a 4, a little improvement on the things related to par 3s would I think have a very positive impact on your handicap.

[Dabetic]

Idk if it's *the* answer but it's an answer that resonates for me. I look at almost all par 3s as "get on the green and get out of there", i.e. aim for the center, don't get cute, play for par - and sometimes you'll get lucky = birdie. I think there are far fewer true green-light opportunities than most players would like to think. Many situations are yellow or light green. The distances you mentioned...basically never a green light. Maybe the 177 if you're really feeling it.

 

The question I'd ask is "where are you aiming on these holes / how often are you going after the pin?"

[Ri_Redneck]

When faced with long par 3s, the best course of action is to play to good-miss locations. Wide side of the green, front apron instead of rough, simple sand shot at your favorite distance, etc. All of these will up you par percentage which is going to help you score more than trying for pins on 210yd shots. I would guess the number of 5i shots you hit on par 4s is pretty low. also maybe one on the occasional short par 5, but even then, you're not trying to get tight to the pin to ensure par. So you don't have a laser focus on using those clubs. Increase the amount of practice time you dedicate to the longer irons and see if you can bring the dispersion down a bit. when going for long accuracy like that, I actually have to tone down a little so that strike is better. I can hit my 5i 200, but I am much more accurate hitting my 4i 200 cause I'm not gunning it quite so much.

 

I play to a 6, but my loss for the last 12 months has been not making birdie putts (as I didn't have my putting practice room available). I had a high percentage of tap in pars, but the birdies just seemed to be elusive for me. I now have my putting room set back up and have resumed daily practice, I am seeing tighter accuracy already. 

 

BT

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

Is this pretty normal for a 4 cap? I'm giving up a lot of strokes on these par 3's. Is it just a matter of getting better contact with my long irons or should I focus my efforts on short game-up and down efficiency? On those long 210 yard par 3's, I'm doing well if I go 1/2 in getting on the green, and yesterday I was +2 on the par 3's. I lipped out 2 up and down putts from under 10 feet, had an easy 2-putt par, and drained a 20-footer to save on the 4th.

Not sure what normal is.  Maybe you're putting needs some adjusting.

 

Played with and against a lot of low single digit guys.  I currently hover around 4, and 70+ yrs old.  On 200 yd Par 3's I normally use a 23' 4i, but can use a 27' 5i or as much as 17' 2i on windy days.  Lofts included because the number on the bottom has no value these days. 

 

Recent 3 week golf trip, the longest par 3 was 215yds, I pared it using 2 iron, the other par 3 was 165yds, into the trade wind, used 4i, missed green, chipped to 4' made putt.  I seldom bogie par 3s, but it does happen.

[PracticeSwinger]

2 hours ago, MelloYello said:

#3

IMHO, your problem isn't on Par3's. Look at how many bogeys and doubles you're making on Par4s! 

Bingo - quick math on scoring average per par shows that he's getting killed on Par4s... half those holes result in bogey or worse, and there are usually 9-10 per round...

 

Even if Par3s on 7k courses are at or over 200yds; on every hole you usually get a decent u&d opportunity - not a scorecard killer per se... but just snap hook one OB, a couple in the trees and another one in a fairway bunker and that Par4 average gets up in a hurry... those are generally where low cap players have to look at in order to improve, ask me how I know... All else being equal, you got a lot of 'longish' holes where you need both a decent drive and a good approach shot 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Dabetic said:

Idk if it's *the* answer but it's an answer that resonates for me. I look at almost all par 3s as "get on the green and get out of there", i.e. aim for the center, don't get cute, play for par - and sometimes you'll get lucky = birdie. I think there are far fewer true green-light opportunities than most players would like to think. Many situations are yellow or light green. The distances you mentioned...basically never a green light. Maybe the 177 if you're really feeling it.

 

The question I'd ask is "where are you aiming on these holes / how often are you going after the pin?"

 

From 210, I'm aiming for the middle of the green 100% of the time. On the 177 hole, I will go for it as I'm hitting easy 7 iron (assuming little to no wind) unless the pin is tucked to the far left near the water hazard. 

[Liveonce]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

#1-

 

Everyone tells me "eliminate doubles" but when you have a snap hook that shows up due to a bad swing habit, there is only so much you can do w/o fixing the swing issue. 

 

 

I can relate to this. I play very well but have 2-3 swings per round with driver that turn into penalties and a double/triple…hard to eliminate the doubles with a swing flaw like that 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

When faced with long par 3s, the best course of action is to play to good-miss locations. Wide side of the green, front apron instead of rough, simple sand shot at your favorite distance, etc. All of these will up you par percentage which is going to help you score more than trying for pins on 210yd shots. I would guess the number of 5i shots you hit on par 4s is pretty low. also maybe one on the occasional short par 5, but even then, you're not trying to get tight to the pin to ensure par. So you don't have a laser focus on using those clubs. Increase the amount of practice time you dedicate to the longer irons and see if you can bring the dispersion down a bit. when going for long accuracy like that, I actually have to tone down a little so that strike is better. I can hit my 5i 200, but I am much more accurate hitting my 4i 200 cause I'm not gunning it quite so much.

 

I play to a 6, but my loss for the last 12 months has been not making birdie putts (as I didn't have my putting practice room available). I had a high percentage of tap in pars, but the birdies just seemed to be elusive for me. I now have my putting room set back up and have resumed daily practice, I am seeing tighter accuracy already. 

 

BT

 

Thanks. I have the same strategy with my 5: I can flush it 215 but I'd rather choke down a bit, take a little off, and hit it 205. 

 

You are right: I am almost never hitting a 4/5 iron on a par 4. I do it often on approach on our par 5s. I will often have 195 to 220 after a good drive, but on those, it is a different mentality. Just get a eagle putt or at worst, a chip that I can get close for a birdie putt. Now, when I think about it, I probably hit better shots into those par 5s because I feel I have a margin of error. Hitting a 2nd shot on a 525 yd par 5 with 5-iron feels like playing with house money. Hitting into a 210 yard par 3 doesn't for some reason, even though it should be easier as I get to choose my lie! 

[SNIPERBBB]

Most par 3s you're just looking to survive . They're generally what can break you in a round. Especially in short courses when you're playing driver wedge all day then there's these par 3s that are 200 yards... your playing a longer course so it may not be quite as bad.

 

Getting on the green is the easiest fix though I think many people don't take into account the effects of using a tee too high or too low does to your tee shots. I have and see more costly mishits off par 3 tee shots than any other spot.

 

Another thing is to look for your bailout areas on par 3s. They tend to punish missing the GIR much more than par 4s do.  So your chipping needs to be really good or you're leaving yourself with an easy up and down.

[Sean124]

3 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

(177/192/212/210)

 

yesterday I was +2 on the par 3's. 

I’d call that pretty good at those yardages. 
 

You, and others, have identified the biggest problem in your game. I’d focus all my energy on that. Golf is really hard when that wild tee shot is always lurking. I’ve been there. 

[kiwigolf72]

Maybe you're right and because it's a par 3 your expectations are higher. Must hit it close instead of just finding the middle of the green.

I have been scratch or better for 35 years, heaps of people I know hit it better than me not many people I know can chip and putt better than me. 

Working on your short game might free up your mind and not freak you out if you miss the green ? This in turn might produce a swing that hits better approach shots 

[betarhoalphadelta]

17 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

You are right: I am almost never hitting a 4/5 iron on a par 4. I do it often on approach on our par 5s. 

 

 

I think this is the key. If you're long off the tee (as you are), GIR percentage on long par 3s are worse than GIR stats on par 4s (because your approach is much shorter) and par 5s (because you sometimes get home in 2 and when you don't, you're pitching/chipping for GIR).

 

I.e. if you're hitting driver / 54* on a par 4, you're naturally going to be more likely to put it on the green in regulation than if you were hitting driver / 5i. A long par 3 is a shot you don't see often on par 4s. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Par 3s are harder for everyone, including pros. You are generally hitting longer clubs into the green, even if it's a shorter par 3 there is likely going to be a lot more trouble or a more severe green to challenge you, so it's asking more of your striking. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by TLUBulldogGolf

[Ri_Redneck]

17 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Thanks. I have the same strategy with my 5: I can flush it 215 but I'd rather choke down a bit, take a little off, and hit it 205. 

 

You are right: I am almost never hitting a 4/5 iron on a par 4. I do it often on approach on our par 5s. I will often have 195 to 220 after a good drive, but on those, it is a different mentality. Just get a eagle putt or at worst, a chip that I can get close for a birdie putt. Now, when I think about it, I probably hit better shots into those par 5s because I feel I have a margin of error. Hitting a 2nd shot on a 525 yd par 5 with 5-iron feels like playing with house money. Hitting into a 210 yard par 3 doesn't for some reason, even though it should be easier as I get to choose my lie! 

Exactly! I also play some long courses sometimes and I try to do everything I can to induce utter calmness when I have one of those long par 3s. I got a great par on the 230yd #6 at the RTJ Shoals Schoolmaster course earlier this month. Smooth 7w to the left center of the green setup a nice two putt.

 

BT

[RichieHunt]

The big thing is to cut down on the double bogeys.  Those are score killers.  Par-3 play is one part approach shot play, 1 part short game around the green and one par putting outside 20-feet.

You can kill a couple of birds with one stone by aiming for the center of the green far more often and forgetting about the flag.  This will help you on your approach play and help you around the green, particularly if you become more adept at avoiding short-siding yourself when you miss the GIR.  That's part of the big thing here...hit the GIR and avoid short siding yourself when you miss the GIR.  Don't worry about birdies too much because even the rpos don't make a lot of birdies on the par-3's. 

From there, you'll want to work on short game around the green shots.  I'd say work on bunker shots from 15-25 yards as that's a common distance from the bunker and be able to hit shots from the greenside rough as you're not likely to have a lot of greenside fairway/fringe shots on the par-3's. 

 

I do believe you should try to make every putt, but putting from outside 20-feet is mostly pot luck.  In fact, from 25-feet or longer PGAT pros are only making 1 of those putts about every 100 holes of golf.  So while I would try to make it, a better goal on all putts from 20+ feet would be to leave yourself with a putt that is within 10% of the distance of your original putt.  So if you have a 40-foot putt for birdie on a par-3, my main goal would be to leave myself with a put tno longer than 4-feet to the hole.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

[iacas]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:36 PM, RoyalMustang said:

On the 177 hole, I will go for it as I'm hitting easy 7 iron

 

That's folly.

 

Your Shot Zone or the 75th percentile of your dispersion or whatever other reasonable measure you have is not that small. You're not better than a Tour player from 177 and almost none of them are "going for it" from 177 on a Thursday.

Edited September 27, 2023 by iacas

[Santiago Golf]

Avg Tour Pro from 165 yards averages 3 strokes

Avg Scratch Player from 95 yards averages 3 strokes

 

So we can assume for a 4 handicap you should be averaging 3 shots from 50 to 60 yards

 

You won't be paring every par 3, so you are doing what you should do for your handicap level. 

 

On all approach shots with a short to mid iron, I would always take one more club and make a comfortable swing, unless the pin is a few paces off the back, then just play the number. If you are hitting a long iron or hybrid, aim for a spot on the green where you can 'bounce' the ball on, this will leave you an easier up and down if you miss it. 

 

A good round for a 4 handicap is break 80. So thats 3 over a side. 

+2 on Par 3s (4 holes, 1 GIR, 1 Up/down, 2 comfy bogies)

+3 on Par 4s (10 holes, 4 GIR, 3 Up/down 3 comfy bogies)

+1 on Par 5s (4 holes, 2 GIR, 1 Up/down, 1 comfy bodey)

 

You can account for .5 birdies as a 4 handicap and maybe .75 doubles a round

[RoyalMustang]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:15 PM, iacas said:

 

That's folly.

 

Your Shot Zone or the 75th percentile of your dispersion or whatever other reasonable measure you have is not that small. You're not better than a Tour player from 177 and almost none of them are "going for it" from 177 on a Thursday.

 

Well, that pin is in the middle 1/3 green90% of the time, so yeah, I'm "going for it" 90% of the time. 

 

I had a 2-footer for tap-in birdie last night on that hole.  

 

FYI, context is important, which is why I'm calling you out here. The other 3 holes don't play that way and I always aim for the middle of the green, but from 190+, it's tougher to nail them. 

[CoffeeGolf24]

Aggressive targets but not necessarily at the flag stick. Mindset being aggressive/confident target can lead to confident swings. Largely at those distances hitting the green is priority which plays a role in your club selection. What is the yardage for a forced carry, what is long, what is short? Hardly are par 3s a go number. Understanding your shot dispersion is helpful as well. Focusing on taking your 3 with the correct club selection and target. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by CoffeeGolf24

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

4 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Well, that pin is in the middle 1/3 green90% of the time, so yeah, I'm "going for it" 90% of the time. 

Hard to see without an overhead of both the hole and your dispersion, but where's the right or left bias to the hole placement?  Or is it smack dab in the middle?

 

I think @iacaswas gently pointing out that your L-R dispersion at 175 is very likely overlapping the rough, and thus pin-hunting in those situations where it's Left or Right, is likely costing you more than it gains you.

 

But if that's not the case, carry on.  Me, I'm just trying to get on the thing.  If there's some crazy tiering or a part of the green that may as well be a false front, I'll aim away from those and towards where I can attempt some kind of reasonable putt at the hole.  

 

My dispersion cloud usually is greater in area than the green itself.  Aiming at one side or another then, just ends up screwing me, unless I've got a very consistent ball flight pattern going that day.

[ac6]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:36 PM, RoyalMustang said:

 

From 210, I'm aiming for the middle of the green 100% of the time. On the 177 hole, I will go for it as I'm hitting easy 7 iron (assuming little to no wind) unless the pin is tucked to the far left near the water hazard. 

 

Yep, play it safe to avoid the big numbers and short-siding yourself. Additionally if you've got a predominant shot shape, you should try and aim to where the middle of your dispersion pattern is middle of the green. My natural ball flight is a slight push draw and my miss is a straight draw. With a 4i or 5i in hand from 200 I know I will miss left more often than I miss right. So no matter where that pin is, most of the time I'm aiming a few yards right of middle.

[aggiegolfer21]

PGA Tour players average proximity to the hole for shots around the green is 7'9".  Don't expect to average better than that.  Probably need to work on hitting more greens in regulation on the par 3's.  Pick conservative targets and work on hitting your mid/long irons.

[RoyalMustang]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:09 PM, ac6 said:

 

Yep, play it safe to avoid the big numbers and short-siding yourself. Additionally if you've got a predominant shot shape, you should try and aim to where the middle of your dispersion pattern is middle of the green. My natural ball flight is a slight push draw and my miss is a straight draw. With a 4i or 5i in hand from 200 I know I will miss left more often than I miss right. So no matter where that pin is, most of the time I'm aiming a few yards right of middle.

 

If only I actually had the accuracy to regularly hit where I'm aiming when the green is 210 yards out! 

[RoyalMustang]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:50 PM, aggiegolfer21 said:

PGA Tour players average proximity to the hole for shots around the green is 7'9".  Don't expect to average better than that.  Probably need to work on hitting more greens in regulation on the par 3's.  Pick conservative targets and work on hitting your mid/long irons.

 

what is the definition of "shots around the green"? Grass condition (fairway/rough) or tee box? Distance? If it's under 8 yards from 200 yards, that's incredible.