Handicap Allotment

[Petethreeput]

Scenario:  8 guys on a golf trip.  4 days Ryder Cup format.  7 players have handicap between 2-8, the 8th player has a 14.  Everyone will play everyone over the four days.

 

Splitting up teams 1, 8, 3, 6 on one team v 2, 4, 5, 7 leads a stroke differential between the teams of 4 strokes.  23 v 27.

 

Does the 14 get 4 strokes against the lowest cap he plays and then plays straight up the other days, or…

 

Should he get what would end being 26 strokes if he got his strokes against each opponent each day?

 

 

[rogolf]

Each player would get the strokes permitted in each game, as per the USGA recommendations.

Stroke play	Individual	95%
	Individual Stableford	95%
	Individual Par/Bogey	95%
	Individual Maximum Score	95%
	Four-Ball	85%
	Four-Ball Stableford	85%
	Four-Ball Par/Bogey	90%
Match Play	Individual	100%
	Four-Ball	90%
Other	Foursomes	50% of combined team handicap

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, rogolf said:

Each player would get the strokes permitted in each game, as per the USGA recommendations.

Stroke play	Individual	95%
	Individual Stableford	95%
	Individual Par/Bogey	95%
	Individual Maximum Score	95%
	Four-Ball	85%
	Four-Ball Stableford	85%
	Four-Ball Par/Bogey	90%
Match Play	Individual	100%
	Four-Ball	90%
Other	Foursomes	50% of combined team handicap

And….if playing match play the handicap is off the low guy in the match.

Not “where they fall” with everyone getting full handicap.

[Petethreeput]

So wait, for clarity, this would be considered an individual match play so he should get all strokes even though it’s a match over four days and courses?

 

Am I reading this correctly?

 

and thank you!

Edited October 6, 2023 by Petethreeput

[rogolf]

17 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

So wait, for clarity, this would be considered an individual match play so he should get all strokes even though it’s a match over four days and courses?

 

Am I reading this correctly?

 

and thank you!

A match over four days?  You'll have to explain the format better.  Example - is the 14 handicapper playing the same person on all four days and other players the same?

Don't think I've ever heard of a four day match,  18 holes, yes, 36 holes, yes, but never 72 holes.

[Petethreeput]

4 minutes ago, rogolf said:

A match over four days?  You'll have to explain the format better.  Example - is the 14 handicapper playing the same person on all four days and other players the same?

Don't think I've ever heard of a four day match,  18 holes, yes, 36 holes, yes, but never 72 holes.

Sorry.  The points are cumulative, so each player will play the other teams A-D player over the four days (we are really good friends), and then at the end of all the matches all the points will be tallied for the win/loss.  Does that make more sense.

 

So four individual matches per person.

[mark m]

Pete:

 

Do you have the GHIN app on your phone?

 

If so, use it. Go to “Handicap Calculator” and enter the course you are going to play. Next touch on “add golfers” and get those guys in there. After that, choose the correct tee and any handicap allowance (but it looks like you will be at 100%?)

 

One of the decisions you should make as a group is if you are going to use the daily update for your handicaps? Or if it will stay the same throughout the trip? I would recommend using the updates. Hopefully everyone has an active Index in the system? If so, the app is very helpful

 

I hope this helps.

Have fun

[Petethreeput]

All of us are in and I have everyone listed.

 

I was just thinking if we played and the teams are only separated by 4 total strokes, but then one player gets 20+ strokes is that correct.  The next highest handicap would only get 9 total over the four days.

 

If we change daily, then each person would get their strokes each match playing off the low guy.  2 index v 4 index the 4 would get two strokes THAT day.

 

It looks and sounds like that is the direction to go based on the article and the comments.

[nsxguy]

8 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

All of us are in and I have everyone listed.

 

I was just thinking if we played and the teams are only separated by 4 total strokes, but then one player gets 20+ strokes is that correct.  The next highest handicap would only get 9 total over the four days.

 

If we change daily, then each person would get their strokes each match playing off the low guy.  2 index v 4 index the 4 would get two strokes THAT day.

 

It looks and sounds like that is the direction to go based on the article and the comments.

 

Pete,

 

I'm not sure I understand your "Ryder Cup format".

 

Each day, each match. How are they played ? -

 

1-on-1 match play. 4-ball (2 2-man teams (best ball) ? 2 man teams 4-somes (2 players, 1 ball (alternate shot)) ?

 

Ryder Cup has all of the above.

 

 

 

 

[Augster]

It’s all individual matches?

 

Then the 14 cap just subtracts his opponents cap each round. When he plays the 1-cap, he gets 13 shots. When he plays the 8-cap, he gets 6 shots. Etc. Each match is a separate match. 
 

Just like if a 4-cap plays a 2-cap. The 4-cap gets 2 shots for that round. 

[goaliedad30]

You're overcomplicating the problem. It appears that each day, there are 4 singles matches. In each of those matches, the higher handicapper gets some number of strokes from the lower handicapper, who plays that match at scratch. That's all there is to it.

 

The "team" result comes from adding up the points scored each day.

[Petethreeput]

Thanks everyone.

 

It is 1 v 1 each day match play.  It just felt wrong and I have never been assigned the job of games.  I usually just donate my buy in to the winners.

 

It will be each person gets the number of strokes allotted per day based on that day opponents handicap.

 

As I was looking at it, it didn’t feel right just knowing how many strokes would be given, but clearly it is.

 

Thank you so much for everyone’s help.  It is very much appreciated!

[nsxguy]

18 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Thanks everyone.

 

It is 1 v 1 each day match play.  It just felt wrong and I have never been assigned the job of games.  I usually just donate my buy in to the winners.

 

It will be each person gets the number of strokes allotted per day based on that day opponents handicap.

 

As I was looking at it, it didn’t feel right just knowing how many strokes would be given, but clearly it is.

 

Thank you so much for everyone’s help.  It is very much appreciated!

 

OK, so the 2 4-man teams are simply for "convenience". No team points. No partnerships during any matches.

 

So each team has an A, B, C, and D player.

 

And each team's A, B, C, & D players play 1 match each against the 4 players on the other team.

 

So as the chart posted earlier says, for each match, the lower handicapper gives 100% of the difference in course handicap to the higher 'cap player.

 

So the lower 'cap player in each match gets NO strokes. The higher capper in each match gets his strokes on the X toughest holes - X being the difference in CH.  👍

[Schulzmc]

Everything that has been said here is exactly right, and using the handicaps of all players is the correct and most fair way to do this. But there is another way I have experienced and it worked fairly well and was fun.

 

We totaled the handicaps of the two teams (as you did) and found the total was 2 strokes different. The D player on that team got two strokes when he played the D player on the other team. That’s it. Every other match was straight up. 

 

When it was A v D the A player was expected to win (and did on our trip). But we had two upsets where C players beat the A player they were up against. The method added some drama and was a lot easier than having to mark scorecards every day. 

 

I don’t think this works when the trip has a lot of dramatically different skill level golfers. But for a trip when most guys are within 4 or 5 strokes of each other it worked great.

[Newby]

Why not simply play to the rules as described in the post above yours. 

Very straightforward and easy.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Newby

[Petethreeput]

1 hour ago, Schulzmc said:

We totaled the handicaps of the two teams (as you did) and found the total was 2 strokes different. The D player on that team got two strokes when he played the D player on the other team. That’s it. Every other match was straight up. 

 

When it was A v D the A player was expected to win (and did on our trip). But we had two upsets where C players beat the A player they were up against. The method added some drama and was a lot easier than having to mark scorecards every day. 

This is what I was thinking, and it gives the lower handicap person an opportunity to talk immense crap at the end of the day.

 

My big concern was, as it stands now I would be the low capper so the high capper would be on my team to even it out, and I want it to be fair.  The higher cap is longer than I am off the tee, and when we tally up at the end of the day I am always surprised at his scores, they just seem so much higher than what they looked like.  But rules are rules in match play so it is decided.

[Schulzmc]

1 hour ago, Newby said:

Why not simply play to the rules as described in the post above yours. 

Very straightforward and easy.

Deciding to play straight up and not use handicaps is still playing by the rules.  You don't have to use handicaps to play competitive, by the rules golf.

 

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

Why not simply play to the rules as described in the post above yours. 

Very straightforward and easy.

 

1 hour ago, Schulzmc said:

Deciding to play straight up and not use handicaps is still playing by the rules.  You don't have to use handicaps to play competitive, by the rules golf.

 

 

Schmulzie, you know that's not what he meant. He meant by the USGA recs in the charts posted earlier in the thread.

 

You're an 8. Would you play a guy "straight up" who was a 4 ? Probly not. Or at least not if you expected to win.

 

Presumably, the USGA, R&A, etc have been crunching the numbers for decades to come up with those recommended percentages. They likely didn't pull those numbers out of thin air.

 

Yet it amazes me how many group organizers think they know better and make up their own "handicap computations".

 

Truly boggles the mind.

[Schulzmc]

55 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

You're an 8. Would you play a guy "straight up" who was a 4 ? Probly not. Or at least not if you expected to win.

As an 8 I would gladly play a 4 if another guy on my team is a 2 and he is playing a 5, and another guy is a 4 and he is playing a 5. We do stuff like that all the time. As the underdog it is fun. As a team it balances out.

 

And by the way, in our club championship the flight I play in has a 6 stroke handicap range and we all play straight up with no handicaps. 

[nsxguy]

5 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

And by the way, in our club championship the flight I play in has a 6 stroke handicap range and we all play straight up with no handicaps. 

 

I hope you're on the low end of that flight.

[Newby]

56 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

 

And by the way, in our club championship the flight I play in has a 6 stroke handicap range and we all play straight up with no handicaps. 

If you win more than you lose and you at the top end of that range it would seem there is a problem with the flight handicaps 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Newby

[Shilgy]

19 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

Thanks everyone.

 

It is 1 v 1 each day match play.  It just felt wrong and I have never been assigned the job of games.  I usually just donate my buy in to the winners.

 

It will be each person gets the number of strokes allotted per day based on that day opponents handicap.

 

As I was looking at it, it didn’t feel right just knowing how many strokes would be given, but clearly it is.

 

Thank you so much for everyone’s help.  It is very much appreciated!

What appears to have messed you up is thinking about the TOTAL stroke allowance some players receive over the four days.

 

That’s irrelevant.  All that matters is giving the proper strokes in each match.

[larrybud]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:47 PM, Petethreeput said:

Sorry.  The points are cumulative, so each player will play the other teams A-D player over the four days (we are really good friends), and then at the end of all the matches all the points will be tallied for the win/loss.  Does that make more sense.

 

So four individual matches per person.

 

You simply take the difference in Playing Handicaps between the two players who are competing against each other. The higher handicapper gets the difference in the strokes.

 

The team total strokes is meaningless because you're not playing any kind of team match.

Edited November 5, 2023 by larrybud

[Petethreeput]

We did it by individual for each match.  Ended up a tie after 4 days.  Thanks again everyone.

[Schulzmc]

6 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

We did it by individual for each match.  Ended up a tie after 4 days.  Thanks again everyone.

Sounds like a drunken putt off for the win to me….  LOL