Increasing swing speed?

[RSGolf001]

A bit of a long post but hear me out. All those YouTube video tips and instructors promising to increase clubhead speed are nothing but click bait. Increasing clubhead speed for the average amateur is a myth and the sooner average golfers realize that the better off they will be. You either have clubhead speed or you don’t.  The average golfer who has a swing speed of 90 mph will most likely never even sniff 100 mph. You will also never throw a 100-mph fastball no matter how much you work on technique (sorry). You are either born with speed or you are not. You need to stop chasing distance and focus on your short game if you want to improve.

Case in point: A friend of mine (55 years old) swings his driver at 106-108 mph with ease and has an average drive of about 265 yards (wouldn’t we all love that). I know this firsthand from playing with him and measuring his swing speed on multiple occasions. However, here is the rub - he does everything wrong when it comes to all the tips on how to increase swing speed:

1. Opposing grip with neutral left hand and right hand turned super strong - way under the club.
2. Very extended left wrist at address with negative shaft lean.
3. Somehow manages to almost get a flat wrist at the top but still cupped.
4. Lots of tension with shoulders, arms, wrists, and grip all very tight.
5. Good initial takeaway and extension but then pulls the club inside and comes over the top on the downswing.
6. Early extension with a complete loss of posture.
7. Swings as hard as he can with poor tempo.
8. Has no forward shaft lean at impact and tends to flip the club more often than not.
9. Finishes the swing with a collapsed left side and chicken wing with no extension.
10. Typical smash factor is around 1.4 or less as he hits it all over the clubface.
11. Does not exercise and does not stretch.

 

Thoughts?

[Rosco1216]

Well…you’re mostly wrong. 
 

Inefficient amateur swing can substantially increase speed with technique. 
 

Strength and mobility can definitely help someone increase speed if they have a restriction in either. 
 

While there are people born with more athletic abilities than others, the main thing being born with is anatomical advantages to generate speed. Such as longer arms.  But mostly, speed is a learned behavior from child/development ages. Learn to swing hard and fast when you’re young and you will always have an advantage over someone who didn’t. 
 

[doctor220]

32 minutes ago, RSGolf001 said:

A bit of a long post but hear me out. All those YouTube video tips and instructors promising to increase clubhead speed are nothing but click bait. Increasing clubhead speed for the average amateur is a myth and the sooner average golfers realize that the better off they will be. You either have clubhead speed or you don’t.  The average golfer who has a swing speed of 90 mph will most likely never even sniff 100 mph. You will also never throw a 100-mph fastball no matter how much you work on technique (sorry). You are either born with speed or you are not. You need to stop chasing distance and focus on your short game if you want to improve.

Case in point: A friend of mine (55 years old) swings his driver at 106-108 mph with ease and has an average drive of about 265 yards (wouldn’t we all love that). I know this firsthand from playing with him and measuring his swing speed on multiple occasions. However, here is the rub - he does everything wrong when it comes to all the tips on how to increase swing speed:

1. Opposing grip with neutral left hand and right hand turned super strong - way under the club.
2. Very extended left wrist at address with negative shaft lean.
3. Somehow manages to almost get a flat wrist at the top but still cupped.
4. Lots of tension with shoulders, arms, wrists, and grip all very tight.
5. Good initial takeaway and extension but then pulls the club inside and comes over the top on the downswing.
6. Early extension with a complete loss of posture.
7. Swings as hard as he can with poor tempo.
8. Has no forward shaft lean at impact and tends to flip the club more often than not.
9. Finishes the swing with a collapsed left side and chicken wing with no extension.
10. Typical smash factor is around 1.4 or less as he hits it all over the clubface.
11. Does not exercise and does not stretch.

 

Thoughts?

This makes no sense. Basically all golfers gain speed as their swing and skill improves. 

[hanginnwangin]

I'm now dumber.

[SNIPERBBB]

If you have a a good swing already, you probably arent going to increase you SS that much through technique changes.  If you have a terrible swing, sky might be the limit for how fast you can be.

 

I would bet your friend could easily get over 110mph SS with an instructor that can set him straight.

[RSGolf001]

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

10 minutes ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

Natural ability can still be enhanced.

[mgoblue83]

Sounds like you are making excuses and giving up. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but please listen:

 

Genetics matter but almost nobody is at their genetic max with anything let alone swing speed. If the very fastest in the world genetically (long drive guys and PGA tour players) are still able to make improvement through targeted training and efficiency then your average amateur should be able to make huge improvements as well.

 

Personal example:

5 years ago my max swing speed was 102mph on Trackman. Today it's 124mph with a cruising speed of 118-120mph. I'm 40 years old and in decent shape but definitely still a dad bod. What changed? Targeted speed training, gaining efficiency in my swing and working on explosive movements during my workouts (jumps, sprints etc).

 

This change has made a huge difference in my scoring and enjoyment of golf and I encourage you to embrace the challenge of improvement instead of giving up before you even try. 

[MattM97]

Created a WRX post to write all that nonsense. 

 

Yes anyone can get faster just like anyone can get stronger with training. 

 

Many people that are naturally fast can get faster with better technique.

 

Having better technique makes it easier to swing faster due to being more efficient. 

[iacas]

33 minutes ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

- If you're 106 with bad technique, you might get to 114.

- If you're 90 with bad technique, you might get to 105.

- If you're 106 with good technique, you might still get to 114.

- If you're 90 with good technique, you might still get to 100.

 

There are gains to be made in both:

• speed training (no "technique" enhancements)
• technique enhancements

[HGLucky13]

25 minutes ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

I am one of those guys. I started with a mid 90's to pushing 100 ss a few years ago. Swinging out of my shoes, losing balance and spraying all over the place. Now with quite a few lessons I am mid 100's to pushing 110 or so when I am loose. Under control, with a lot less energy expended. I have done zero speed training, or working out, or anything like that. Just getting my swing tuned in, and whatever "training" I get from hitting balls. I believe I could gain more if I put the effort into speed training.  

[GoGoErky]

54 minutes ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

Some people have speed naturally. He would probably gain 5-10 more mph by fixing his swing

[BlueDragonKorea]

And yet another validating unconfirmed poster with a bad take...

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

I've gone from ~100 as a young man to low 110s at an >50 yr old.  A lot of it is benefiting from 30 years of knowledge about how the golf swing and the flight laws actually work. 

 

Another chunk of it is working on developing explosive strength and actually swinging as fast as I can.  I do that, I get used to the sensation, I find I've much more time to sync up hands, shoulders, hips, and all the rest. 

 

90 to 110 may be difficult, but who knows?

[Cameaux]

2 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Sounds like you are making excuses and giving up. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but please listen:

 

Genetics matter but almost nobody is at their genetic max with anything let alone swing speed. If the very fastest in the world genetically (long drive guys and PGA tour players) are still able to make improvement through targeted training and efficiency then your average amateur should be able to make huge improvements as well.

 

Personal example:

5 years ago my max swing speed was 102mph on Trackman. Today it's 124mph with a cruising speed of 118-120mph. I'm 40 years old and in decent shape but definitely still a dad bod. What changed? Targeted speed training, gaining efficiency in my swing and working on explosive movements during my workouts (jumps, sprints etc).

 

This change has made a huge difference in my scoring and enjoyment of golf and I encourage you to embrace the challenge of improvement instead of giving up before you even try. 

 

@mgoblue83 Love seeing posts like these.  I maxed out at about 100 mph swing speed on Trackman about 3-4 years ago--definite short hitter of my group.  I started training with the Stack and can get up to 108 or so these days when going all out, but not seeing it really transfer to playing (probably 102-104 on course).  So essentially I'm feeling a little plateau at the moment. 

 

Enough about me, I'm curious how you would assign percentages of your 20+ mph gains to speed training vs. technique vs. workouts.  I'm doing speed training and have incorporated a bunch of jumping and med ball throwing into my fitness routines, but I'm still not seeing more transfer of potential speed.  Would love to here more in-depth anecdotes on how you picked up such impressive gains in speed.

[Sean124]

 

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Cameaux said:

 

@mgoblue83 Love seeing posts like these.  I maxed out at about 100 mph swing speed on Trackman about 3-4 years ago--definite short hitter of my group.  I started training with the Stack and can get up to 108 or so these days when going all out, but not seeing it really transfer to playing (probably 102-104 on course).  So essentially I'm feeling a little plateau at the moment. 

 

Enough about me, I'm curious how you would assign percentages of your 20+ mph gains to speed training vs. technique vs. workouts.  I'm doing speed training and have incorporated a bunch of jumping and med ball throwing into my fitness routines, but I'm still not seeing more transfer of potential speed.  Would love to here more in-depth anecdotes on how you picked up such impressive gains in speed.

 

Definitely felt the same way. Short hitter in my group of 30-40 year old single digit handicaps. My brother was a Trackman rep at the time so I was able hit on it a lot and my absolute max was 102 CHS 151 Ball Speed and a carry of 240-250yds. Very frustrated when my, brother, friends and playing partners would swing 110+ without even trying. I've always been a decent player and could still shoot in the 70s from the whites but it wasn't fun being 30+ yards back every hole. Absolutely could not compete from the tips which is where most of the guys wanted to play.

 

Hard to put a percentage on everything but I'll detail what I did:

 

First:

On the recommendation of a friend who played D1 college golf I signed up for a package of 10 sessions (30mins) with a personal trainer who specialized in athletic movement. I think it cost me about $500 at the time for those 10 sessions and I did 1 session a week with him while doing another couple sessions a week on my own. We drilled core strength, leg strength, explosive moves and functional flexibility/balance. Did zero bench press or anything like that. Just dynamic explosive moves. Absolutely loved it and still use a lot of the exercises I learned from him in my current workouts. I would say this isn't required to swing 110+ but without having this base to build from there is zero chance I'd be swinging 120+ right now.

 

Second:

Did not take any golf lessons but a couple of the really good players I played with were able to help me with some swing flaws that really limited my speed. Namely a limited shoulder turn/pivot going back and a steep move into the ball. Still working on my swing to this day but you simply cannot swing fast without making a full turn/pivot with good pressure transfer. I've always been pretty decent with the pressure transfer from playing sports as a kid so once I started making a real pivot I started to see some speed jumps.

 

Third:

SuperSpeed system targeted speed practice. I followed the protocol religiously that first summer. Still follow the protocol every spring to maintain. Superspeed is what took me from 110~ to 120+. It's not so much just using the sticks and following the protocol as it is learning how to swing ALL OUT without any hesitation or fear while maintaining balance and consistency. The big speed jumps are from your nervous system more than your swing or muscular system and once you unlock that speed it's very easy to swing fast with minimal effort while playing. The other thing that a lot of people don't realize is that a huge percentage of speed is in your arms and hands during release. Superspeed is asking you to do ANYTHING to get it to move faster and you will eventually figure out how to untap that potential. It's to the point now where my max swing is 124mph but I can swing 112mph with my feet touching together and zero leg drive just using arm and hand speed.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5 by mgoblue83

[Cameaux]

@mgoblue83  Really appreciate the thoughtful response.  My speed numbers on Stack would indicate that physically, I'm capable of 116-118 with driver.  However, I never see anything near that when actually hitting a ball.  Lately I've started adding speed sessions with a ball trying to bring the ALL OUT intent you mentioned from speed training to my driver/ball swing.  Hoping that can lead to more conversion of my physical speed capabilities to actual club/ball speed when hitting a ball.

[mgoblue83]

8 minutes ago, Cameaux said:

@mgoblue83  Really appreciate the thoughtful response.  My speed numbers on Stack would indicate that physically, I'm capable of 116-118 with driver.  However, I never see anything near that when actually hitting a ball.  Lately I've started adding speed sessions with a ball trying to bring the ALL OUT intent you mentioned from speed training to my driver/ball swing.  Hoping that can lead to more conversion of my physical speed capabilities to actual club/ball speed when hitting a ball.

 

 

Would not recommend doing it with a ball for now because it's another couple of things to think about and will slow you down. Just use the Stack or Superspeed with a swing radar and forget your golf swing. Do anything you can to get that number higher and I promise it will start to translate over time. Remember the way it works is to be able to max out while training and then cruise while hitting balls.

 

I'm not the biggest Bryson Dechambeau fan but the videos that he, Kyle Berkshire and Martin Borgmeier have uploaded to YouTube about speed training are really good. It shows the kind of effort that is really required to make gains.

[MonteScheinblum]

You can do all the wrong things and swing 106, because 115-120 is probably your ceiling.  
 

It’s rare I see people that have maxed out their swing speed on their mechanics.  See Harrington.

 

The way to reach your ceiling…..and IMO, the only way to do it.

 

While you’re improving your swing, get your body more fit.

 

When you plateau, start speed training.

 

If you speed train with poor mechanics, you will have a fast swing with bad impact dynamics.  Same theory behind why the perfect practice swings are actually fecal, because the face is wide open.

[dminn23]

8 hours ago, RSGolf001 said:

A bit of a long post but hear me out. All those YouTube video tips and instructors promising to increase clubhead speed are nothing but click bait. Increasing clubhead speed for the average amateur is a myth and the sooner average golfers realize that the better off they will be. You either have clubhead speed or you don’t.  The average golfer who has a swing speed of 90 mph will most likely never even sniff 100 mph. You will also never throw a 100-mph fastball no matter how much you work on technique (sorry). You are either born with speed or you are not. You need to stop chasing distance and focus on your short game if you want to improve.

Case in point: A friend of mine (55 years old) swings his driver at 106-108 mph with ease and has an average drive of about 265 yards (wouldn’t we all love that). I know this firsthand from playing with him and measuring his swing speed on multiple occasions. However, here is the rub - he does everything wrong when it comes to all the tips on how to increase swing speed:

1. Opposing grip with neutral left hand and right hand turned super strong - way under the club.
2. Very extended left wrist at address with negative shaft lean.
3. Somehow manages to almost get a flat wrist at the top but still cupped.
4. Lots of tension with shoulders, arms, wrists, and grip all very tight.
5. Good initial takeaway and extension but then pulls the club inside and comes over the top on the downswing.
6. Early extension with a complete loss of posture.
7. Swings as hard as he can with poor tempo.
8. Has no forward shaft lean at impact and tends to flip the club more often than not.
9. Finishes the swing with a collapsed left side and chicken wing with no extension.
10. Typical smash factor is around 1.4 or less as he hits it all over the clubface.
11. Does not exercise and does not stretch.

 

Thoughts?

I wrote a long elegant reply, then I read back thru this and deleted it.

 

My thoughts are you have a victim mentality. (Sorry)

Edited February 6 by dminn23

[Albatross Dreamer]

32 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You can do all the wrong things and swing 106, because 115-120 is probably your ceiling.  
 

It’s rare I see people that have maxed out their swing speed on their mechanics.  See Harrington.

 

The way to reach your ceiling…..and IMO, the only way to do it.

 

While you’re improving your swing, get your body more fit.

 

When you plateau, start speed training.

 

If you speed train with poor mechanics, you will have a fast swing with bad impact dynamics.  Same theory behind why the perfect practice swings are actually fecal, because the face is wide open.

To add to this everyone has their own genetic ceiling for improvement. Too many people focus only on the genetic starting point and don't realize that there's individual differences with improvement capacity too. Meaning two people could start with 100 mph swing speed as their genetic "baseline" and one might have the potential for 110 while another could reach 125. This is counting the technique side of things as "equal", which is obviously usually the biggest differentiator in speed.

 

This partially explains why we see such big variances in responses to strength and speed training. 

[phizzy30]

5 hours ago, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

It's called natural athletic ability and having more Type II fibers than the average person.  I've gone from 110 ss in high school and topped out at 128 when I was in my late 20's.  A s**** swing is most often the culprit and getting technique down is the most important, IMO.  Only then can a golfer unlock their true potential ss wise by adding in strength/mobility/speed training along with stretching and balance exercises to top it off. 

[Shilgy]

OP you also mentioned your buddy with the poor swing technique and poor fitness swings it 106 and “hits it all over the face”.  If he did no speed training and worked out properly he’d likely gain a few mph club speed AND hit the middle more consistently which of course would also gain him distance and more control.

[psgolf2086]

8 hours ago, RSGolf001 said:

You are either born with speed or you are not.

 

Not true. My stock driver swing on Trackman used to be 105 mph and I would max out at maybe 110 if i stepped on it. I have spent the last year in the gym 3 days/week increasing core strength and leg strength, and it has made a huge difference in speed. My stock swing on Trackman is now 115-117, and so far I have maxed out at 121, and that's without using any of the swing speed trainers (SuperSpeed, Rypstick, etc). The main issue is I wasn't using my lower body effectively before, and now I have learned how to use my legs and lower body to create speed. If you're willing to put in the work and understand how speed is created, you can absolutely add speed. I am 37 now and I have much more speed than when I was 27. 

 

That being said, I still spend 2/3 of my practice time practicing my short game. 

[Arthur_Vandelay]

About 4 summers ago I bought one of those $100 swing speed radars and just practiced every day making practice swings to see how fast I could get it to read.  First swings were around 102.  By the end of the first summer I could get it to read over 130, and consistently hit in the low to mid 120s.  Poor technique caused me to struggle to translate those speed gains when it came to actually hitting balls, but as I've corrected swing faults (primarily an open club face) my playing swing speed has creeped up to around 115+.

 

 

Edited February 6 by Arthur_Vandelay

[Cameaux]

22 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

 

Would not recommend doing it with a ball for now because it's another couple of things to think about and will slow you down. Just use the Stack or Superspeed with a swing radar and forget your golf swing. Do anything you can to get that number higher and I promise it will start to translate over time. Remember the way it works is to be able to max out while training and then cruise while hitting balls.

 

I'm not the biggest Bryson Dechambeau fan but the videos that he, Kyle Berkshire and Martin Borgmeier have uploaded to YouTube about speed training are really good. It shows the kind of effort that is really required to make gains.

 

@mgoblue83  I guess the reason I added all-out swings with a ball is because right now I've got over a 20 mph delta between no ball driver swings on radar vs. all out swings with ball.  I don't feel like I necessarily need to add capability to swing faster, as I can already move my driver 125 without a ball.  It's the transfer to actually hitting balls where I seem to have the issue.

 

I guess my point is I'm trying to find a way to reduce that delta to get more actual tangible benefit on the course from my current physical speed capabilities.  Did you/do you have such a large gap between your no ball swings vs. hitting balls?

[naj959]

On 2/5/2024 at 11:35 AM, RSGolf001 said:

The point of my post was that someone who is doing all the wrong things to optimize their swing speed is still able to swing at 106+ with ease where most amateurs are stuck at around 90 mph. I don't argue technique is important but if it were mostly just technique someone who does all the wrong things would not be able to swing at 106+. Would love to hear from someone who was able to go from 90 mph to over 100 mph consistently. I am sure it happens, but I just don't think it happens very often.

 

 

First time I got on a monitor was fresh out of high school. Was pretty disappointed to see 87mph. Swing got better over the years and grew into my "man" body. Hover around the low 100s. Think I could easily gain 10 more mph with some speed training and more swing refinement. Think my experience is pretty typical.