My distance problem, is it genetics ?

[Pepperturbo]

20 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Speed sticks 

learn to pass thru impact with zero care for results … too many guys holding onto the steering wheel in my experience

I agree 100%, good advice. 

 

When I took up golf, something in me wouldn't let me smack the ball using a Driver; I was always at the steering wheel.  Somewhere as I was improving, something I read hit me at the steering wheel.  Find a shaft that could handle my aggressive swing.  When I did that, driving distance and dispersion improved.

[mgoblue83]

Genetics limit your maximum speed but hardly anyone on the planet is actually at their max speed so stop using it as a mental crutch.

 

As many people earlier in this thread have said:

 

If you want to swing faster then you simply need to practice swinging faster without any concern about keeping the ball in play. The accuracy will come with time but in order to get faster you must get out of your comfort zone and train for it. 

[RoyalMustang]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:10 PM, kamaaina1 said:

62 here.  I've really been working on my flexibility and hip rotation.  Distance is increasing nicely...   

 

My wife, who's moving from practicing physical therapy into TPI instruction, starts here with most every patient, especially anyone over 45. I'm glad that you figured it out as well. 

 

Most people hitting their 60's see their ball flights as suddenly dropping and buy high loft drivers and tee the ball up way too far. If only they understood that their phyiscal limitations and outlook weren't fixed-that they could work to stem the decline and even build back to where they were at a younger age! 

[RoyalMustang]

Genetics is a problem for all of us! We have only so much skill built into our bodies. However, we can always maximize that. I'm a firm believer that anyone without true physical limitations (such as missing a limb) can get to 65-70% of the skill of the best out there. Having been an elite-pro athlete in 2 endurace sports, I can definitely tell you that if you aren't born with the motor, you will never be "the best" or even run a 2:18 (generally marker of elite) marathon. But if your goal is to run a 3 hour marathon and have a decent genetic background and the work ethic, you can get there. 

 

Luckily in golf, it's not all one area. Strength, flexiblity, coordination all come into play. Some guys hit the ball a long way and are built like a cannonball (Bryson in his bulking phase). Others just have a very powerful swing due to fluidity and coordination. You likely have some positive attributes of coordination, strength, or flexibility. You can improve all 3 with practice. You'll likely never have the chance to be Jack Nicklaus with the combination of flexiblity and body control, but that's OK. 

 

Work with someone who really knows the body. Not a personal trainer: they can't diagnose your weaknesses. Just getting stronger and lifting weights is a missed opportunity. My wife is getting her TPI Medical 3 (you must be a DPT or chiropractor) and will transition to working with golfers in the next year. These are the folks who can see the big picture of the body, your current abilities, and how you should attack your weaknesses in regards to the golf swing. Once you start fixing your physical issues, you can address your swing and why you are leaking power. 

 

The one thing you'll see when you watch an elite player up close: they look effortless. It isn't because they are hitting the weights 10 hours a week. It's because their swing is effecient: their movements are coordinated; energy is delivered up from the feet, through the hips, torso, and into the hands and to the ball. Trouble is, you probably don't have the combination of flexiblity, motor control, and swing knowledge to do this yet. Just working on your swing won't get you there: it's like trying to set a class lap record in your Spec Miata at the local track with 2 of 4 cylinders out, bald tires, and off-the-rack suspension. Having all the driving knowledge in the world won't mean much if your car isn't tuned and sharp.

 

Good luck! 

 

 

[phizzy30]

42 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

Genetics is a problem for all of us! We have only so much skill built into our bodies. However, we can always maximize that. I'm a firm believer that anyone without true physical limitations (such as missing a limb) can get to 65-70% of the skill of the best out there. Having been an elite-pro athlete in 2 endurace sports, I can definitely tell you that if you aren't born with the motor, you will never be "the best" or even run a 2:18 (generally marker of elite) marathon. But if your goal is to run a 3 hour marathon and have a decent genetic background and the work ethic, you can get there. 

 

Luckily in golf, it's not all one area. Strength, flexiblity, coordination all come into play. Some guys hit the ball a long way and are built like a cannonball (Bryson in his bulking phase). Others just have a very powerful swing due to fluidity and coordination. You likely have some positive attributes of coordination, strength, or flexibility. You can improve all 3 with practice. You'll likely never have the chance to be Jack Nicklaus with the combination of flexiblity and body control, but that's OK. 

 

Work with someone who really knows the body. Not a personal trainer: they can't diagnose your weaknesses. Just getting stronger and lifting weights is a missed opportunity. My wife is getting her TPI Medical 3 (you must be a DPT or chiropractor) and will transition to working with golfers in the next year. These are the folks who can see the big picture of the body, your current abilities, and how you should attack your weaknesses in regards to the golf swing. Once you start fixing your physical issues, you can address your swing and why you are leaking power. 

 

The one thing you'll see when you watch an elite player up close: they look effortless. It isn't because they are hitting the weights 10 hours a week. It's because their swing is effecient: their movements are coordinated; energy is delivered up from the feet, through the hips, torso, and into the hands and to the ball. Trouble is, you probably don't have the combination of flexiblity, motor control, and swing knowledge to do this yet. Just working on your swing won't get you there: it's like trying to set a class lap record in your Spec Miata at the local track with 2 of 4 cylinders out, bald tires, and off-the-rack suspension. Having all the driving knowledge in the world won't mean much if your car isn't tuned and sharp.

 

Good luck! 

 

 

Hmmm........not sure if that's a dig towards personal trainers, but to say that we don't know anything about the human body and can't diagnose weaknesses is borderline insulting.  I've taken human anatomy and kinesiology classes in college and have several sports certifications but don't claim to know everything about the human body so I refer my clients to other professionals in the medical field and what not when their issues are beyond my expertise.  Granted there are many personal trainers that don't have enough knowledge out there and only have their basic certificates that have no business doing what they're doing.  I would appreciate you wording your posts more carefully next time bro.  It's a respect thing.  Thanks.  🙂

Edited March 8 by phizzy30

[RoyalMustang]

19 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Hmmm........not sure if that's a dig towards personal trainers, but to say that we don't know anything about the human body and can't diagnose weaknesses is borderline insulting.  I've taken human anatomy and kinesiology classes in college and have several sports certifications but don't claim to know everything about the human body so I refer my clients to other professionals in the medical field and what not when their issues are beyond my expertise.  Granted there are many personal trainers that don't have enough knowledge out there and only have their basic certificates that have no business doing what they're doing.  I would appreciate you wording your posts more carefully next time bro.  It's a respect thing.  Thanks.  🙂

 

My apologies-I didn't mean to offend anyone. Most of the personal trainers my wife has worked with (she started life as one before getting her DPT) didn't know much about the body and how to understand/diagnose issues; she's had several patients since that were screwed up by personal trainers.  My perception is therefore anecdotal and not evidence-based; I shouldn't have run with it.  

[GoGoErky]

20 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

My apologies-I didn't mean to offend anyone. Most of the personal trainers my wife has worked with (she started life as one before getting her DPT) didn't know much about the body and how to understand/diagnose issues; she's had several patients since that were screwed up by personal trainers.  My perception is therefore anecdotal and not evidence-based; I shouldn't have run with it.  

Generalizing anyone isn’t a good way to go about things. Theres good and bad in all fields.

 

Rather encourage people to work with reputable trainers and coaches. I know more good personal trainers and coaches than bad and the bad ones are easy to pick out.

 

I know some average chiros and know of some others so I stay away and don’t recommend them. 

[RoyalMustang]

21 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Generalizing anyone isn’t a good way to go about things. Theres good and bad in all fields.

 

Rather encourage people to work with reputable trainers and coaches. I know more good personal trainers and coaches than bad and the bad ones are easy to pick out.

 

I know some average chiros and know of some others so I stay away and don’t recommend them. 

 

I agree. There is a huge difference between an ATC and a "personal trainer". The ATC will know how the body works and has a 4 year degree. A DPT or chiro will have 8+ years of education and also rotationals; they will be much more qualified in diagnosis and treatment than a ATC. Personal trainer-could be awesome or a total hack.  It really depends on what your body needs. 

[doctor220]

Genetics is not the reason you swing 80 mph. Sure you may only be able to swing 100 while your buddy the same age and similar build can go 110 etc. 

 

think 30-50 yr old adult men could easily get to 105-110 mph with decent swings. To be very blunt if you are a high handicap and swing 80 mph it’s bc you have a bad swing with big faults. Sure at 58 most people are prob starting to slow down but 95+ should be easily doable. 

[Nels55]

39 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Genetics is not the reason you swing 80 mph. Sure you may only be able to swing 100 while your buddy the same age and similar build can go 110 etc. 

 

think 30-50 yr old adult men could easily get to 105-110 mph with decent swings. To be very blunt if you are a high handicap and swing 80 mph it’s bc you have a bad swing with big faults. Sure at 58 most people are prob starting to slow down but 95+ should be easily doable. 

I disagree.  Based on my observation of average 30 to 50 year old adult men I would say 100mph is out of reach for most.  90 if they are lucky.  

[doctor220]

5 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I disagree.  Based on my observation of average 30 to 50 year old adult men I would say 100mph is out of reach for most.  90 if they are lucky.  

You must play with a lot of bad golfers. 
 

im not talk about people who golf 3 times a year. I’m talking about people who truly attempt to improve, take lessons, play or practice couple times a week. Those people will hit 100 at absolute minimum and frankly likely far higher. Recreational people sure 

[Nels55]

1 minute ago, doctor220 said:

You must play with a lot of bad golfers. 
 

im not talk about people who golf 3 times a year. I’m talking about people who truly attempt to improve, take lessons, play or practice couple times a week. Those people will hit 100 at absolute minimum and frankly likely far higher. Recreational people sure 

Nope.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Nope.

 

Way to back up your claim with facts. 😜

 

I teach a lot of golfers, and many of them are 30-50 and I don't think I'd say 100 is "out of reach" for "most." But I haven't actually measured all of this, and there's some subjectivity to it because even if they're at 95 MPH right now I'm prognosticating a bit about whether they could hit 100.

 

Measured a 9 handicap the other day, 40 years old, and he sits at a desk all day. He swung at 94 MPH, hitting a ball… with his 7I.

 

I'd be interested in seeing some actual stats on this, but also… I'd likely wager that "most" have the potential to get to 100 MPH.

[Obee]

2 hours ago, doctor220 said:

You must play with a lot of bad golfers. 
 

im not talk about people who golf 3 times a year. I’m talking about people who truly attempt to improve, take lessons, play or practice couple times a week. Those people will hit 100 at absolute minimum and frankly likely far higher. Recreational people sure 

 

 

If you can even mention 30 and 50-year-olds in the same sentence here, that's a bit odd. 

 

How old are you?

[tthomasgolfer605]

Interesting thread. My dad couldn't hit a ball 40 yards. His full swing looked like my putting stroke. The only time my mom touched a club was when she yelled at me for hitting flop shots off the carpet.  Maybe they picked up the wrong kid from the hospital? Adopted perhaps? My uncles who I played with were shooting over 100 consistently. I'm gonna ask my mom if she got some on the side when they still had Milkmen. 😂 

[Obee]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Way to back up your claim with facts. 😜

 

I teach a lot of golfers, and many of them are 30-50 and I don't think I'd say 100 is "out of reach" for "most." But I haven't actually measured all of this, and there's some subjectivity to it because even if they're at 95 MPH right now I'm prognosticating a bit about whether they could hit 100.

 

Measured a 9 handicap the other day, 40 years old, and he sits at a desk all day. He swung at 94 MPH, hitting a ball… with his 7I.

 

I'd be interested in seeing some actual stats on this, but also… I'd likely wager that "most" have the potential to get to 100 MPH.

Respectfully, the problem with these "most" claims is that sports always start off with a self-selected sample—those who play the game overwhelmingly have some level of basic affinity for it.

 

The amount of hopelessly uncoordinated and slow people out there should not be underestimated.

 

But if you define "most" as "more than half," I agree with you. 🙂
 

 

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Way to back up your claim with facts. 😜

 

I teach a lot of golfers, and many of them are 30-50 and I don't think I'd say 100 is "out of reach" for "most." But I haven't actually measured all of this, and there's some subjectivity to it because even if they're at 95 MPH right now I'm prognosticating a bit about whether they could hit 100.

 

Measured a 9 handicap the other day, 40 years old, and he sits at a desk all day. He swung at 94 MPH, hitting a ball… with his 7I.

 

I'd be interested in seeing some actual stats on this, but also… I'd likely wager that "most" have the potential to get to 100 MPH.

Thank you, always want to be on top of the facts!  LOL I originally reacted to the claim; "think 30-50 yr old adult men could easily get to 105-110 mph with decent swings."    I don't really know that most are lucky to hit 90 mph but I would not be surprised and many are never getting close to 105mph.  It is true that there are a lot of really good athletes playing golf who can sneeze the ball 100 mph but there are also a lot of guys playing golf who got picked last in PE class.  I have golfed with a number of them over the years and 200 yards is a remarkable drive for them.    

[doctor220]

3 hours ago, Obee said:

 

 

If you can even mention 30 and 50-year-olds in the same sentence here, that's a bit odd. 

 

How old are you?

I mean sure 30 yr olds probably have more speed potential than 50 year olds but I would say at 50 you still have decent potential. Once mid to late 50s to 60s , ya a lot of people are gonna slow down. 
 

 

[doctor220]

6 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Thank you, always want to be on top of the facts!  LOL I originally reacted to the claim; "think 30-50 yr old adult men could easily get to 105-110 mph with decent swings."    I don't really know that most are lucky to hit 90 mph but I would not be surprised and many are never getting close to 105mph.  It is true that there are a lot of really good athletes playing golf who can sneeze the ball 100 mph but there are also a lot of guys playing golf who got picked last in PE class.  I have golfed with a number of them over the years and 200 yards is a remarkable drive for them.    

Except you don’t need to be a physical specimen to hit the golf ball hard. Someone like Justin Thomas is not an impressive athlete by any stretch of the imagination and obviously hits the ball pretty hard. A lot of pga tour players are last pick in PE type builds 
 

if you’re an adult male in this age range without some kind of physical disability/issue and 200 yards is a good drive , you almost assuredly have a really bad golf swing. Again I’m not talking about people who play twice a year. I’m talking about people that pursue getting better at golf and truly play golf somewhat often. 

[Nels55]

39 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Except you don’t need to be a physical specimen to hit the golf ball hard. Someone like Justin Thomas is not an impressive athlete by any stretch of the imagination and obviously hits the ball pretty hard. A lot of pga tour players are last pick in PE type builds 
 

if you’re an adult male in this age range without some kind of physical disability/issue and 200 yards is a good drive , you almost assuredly have a really bad golf swing. Again I’m not talking about people who play twice a year. I’m talking about people that pursue getting better at golf and truly play golf somewhat often. 

Justin Thomas is a tremendous athlete and I betcha dollars to doughnuts that he never got picked last for anything.  Speed does not have all that much to do with technique or size for that matter.  Those who are fast such as most any professional athlete who fools around hitting golf balls are really fast at golf very quickly regardless of how bad their technique is.  On the other hand you could train many of the folks I have golfed with 'til the cows come home and they are not picking up 10mph in clubhead speed.

[KD1]

I'm having a real hard time with the notion that anyone who isn't a pro could be anywhere near their "genetic" ceiling. That isn't to say that I think everyone can be on tour or even play at a high level, I mean no one else is putting in the time and resources to approach that particular ceiling. 

Edited March 11 by KD1

[doctor220]

6 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Justin Thomas is a tremendous athlete and I betcha dollars to doughnuts that he never got picked last for anything.  Speed does not have all that much to do with technique or size for that matter.  Those who are fast such as most any professional athlete who fools around hitting golf balls are really fast at golf very quickly regardless of how bad their technique is.  On the other hand you could train many of the folks I have golfed with 'til the cows come home and they are not picking up 10mph in clubhead speed.

No this is just plain wrong. People can easily pick up 10 mph CHS as almost everyone who commits to a speed training thing like the stack does. 
 

Tremendous athlete ? Lmao 

[Baitkiller]

Wait...your 58 and the wife is preggers?

 

[Khill818]

1 hour ago, Baitkiller said:

Wait...your 58 and the wife is preggers?

 

That comment was past tense.  

[Nels55]

8 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Tremendous athlete ? Lmao 

Well Doc, you know they say that laughter is the best medicine so glad to be of help!  No charge this time...

 

Justin Thomas is 5'10" tall and weighs 160 lbs.  He averages over 300 yards driving the ball on the PGA Tour:

https://www.statmuse.com/pga/ask/justin-thomas-average-driving-distance-by-year

 

He does this while being a non athlete who got picked last in PE class?  LOL that is pretty funny in and of itself.

[mgoblue83]

21 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I disagree.  Based on my observation of average 30 to 50 year old adult men I would say 100mph is out of reach for most.  90 if they are lucky.  

 

Couldn't disagree with you more.

 

Any reasonably healthy 50 year old should be able to swing at least 100mph without much effort. If they can't right now then they should be able to get there with a little work. 

 

The people who struggle with speed generally have multiple issues that need to be addressed like injuries, flexibility, strength and swing deficiencies but again - an average 50 year old male should have NO issue swinging 100mph.

[doctor220]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Well Doc, you know they say that laughter is the best medicine so glad to be of help!  No charge this time...

 

Justin Thomas is 5'10" tall and weighs 160 lbs.  He averages over 300 yards driving the ball on the PGA Tour:

https://www.statmuse.com/pga/ask/justin-thomas-average-driving-distance-by-year

 

He does this while being a non athlete who got picked last in PE class?  LOL that is pretty funny in and of itself.

Because hitting a golf ball is a skill and not necessarily related to athleticism(yes being more athletic may help you hit it further) . Shane Lowry hits the ball far, is he an athlete ? I don’t think so. He’s an overweight out of shape guy. Great golfer. 
 

 

There are a decent amount of non athletic people on the pga tour. It’s a skill based game. 

[doctor220]

There are 13-14 year old kids who hit the ball 300 yards nowadays and we really think in full grown men in reasonable health that hitting it 200 yards is the peak of their abilities ? 

[skim4]

Most of the decently competitive junior golfers I knew growing up were highly coordinated. Could usually shoot lights out from 3 and could throw and catch really well. 

Most did lack the agility and jumping muscles though. Golfers were never picked last in my area. 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, doctor220 said:

Because hitting a golf ball is a skill and not necessarily related to athleticism(yes being more athletic may help you hit it further) . Shane Lowry hits the ball far, is he an athlete ? I don’t think so. He’s an overweight out of shape guy. Great golfer. 
 

 

There are a decent amount of non athletic people on the pga tour. It’s a skill based game. 

Yes, Shane Lowrey is an athlete and hitting a golf ball with a lot of clubhead speed requires athletic ability.  LOL years ago I played on a softball team and a big huge fat guy joined the team.  We had some kids who thought that they were pretty fast and at some point the fat guy claimed he was faster then any of them.  The situation escalated and the before the next game that had a race from the third base line across the diamond.  LOL the fat guy won by ten feet, just dusted them.  Turns out he had played D line at UCLA.  Athletic ability is not determined by what someone looks like or what kind of shape they are in.  Guys who succeed at a high level in most any sport will beat normal people at most any sort of game or athletic competition.