PGAT & Random Drug Testing

[bobfoster]

Some offbeat ruminations. Walked on as a single this past Saturday, got paired with a dude that works for the company that handles the drug testing for a lot of professional sports. Handles the NFL, NBA, MLB, and is even participating in the Olympics this year. Also does college sports. And does the PGAT. This was completely new to me - apparently drugs testing for pro sports is simply a business, with different companies competing for contracts to administer the tests. 

 

As you can imagine, some fascinating conversations - isn't golf great? I've met the most interesting people.

 

Couple curious things? 

 

First, he said the PGAT was way down the list of potential suspicious characters. The folks in our sport apparently usually just don't do drugs. And he said a lot of the (rare times) they were caught, it was often just a mistake that they owned up to ... i.e., these weren't guys taking steroids they know are illegal and trying to hide it, but rather taking some OTC or prescribed drug for a physical condition, and not realizing that it was banned. 

 

The worst? The NFL and MLB. And (this is weird) the absolute worst is ... (believe it or not), college Lacrosse. (I mean, what the heck?)

 

And I hadn't realized how sophisticated both drug testing, and drug testing avoidance strategies (used by players to avoid popping positive) have become. H

 

Anyway - interesting conversation. is company doesn't just test for drugs, but for "masking agents and behaviors". 

 

I asked him about the PGAT's low rates. He went off on this long (biochemical) explanation. The majority of the positive hits across all sports is apparently steroids, and HGH (which technically isn't a steroid - it's a peptide, but sorta has some similar effects). But here's the thing - steroids can build you serious muscle mass and make you stronger (and longer), but they also mess with fine motor controls. So long and short of it, if you are an NFL linebacker, and need to stop some 250 lb beast running at you full force, steroids would give a huge advantage. And would give a golfer an advantage off the tee on a long par 5. But that golfer also needs to face the incredible precision of a bump and run with a short wedge 10 feet off the green. And not only would steroids not help, they could actually hurt. 

 

Anyway, interesting conversation. Though I personally want nothing to do with drugs, I get that a lot of people experiment. But really? My impression of them is:

 

[jvincent]

7 hours ago, bobfoster said:

The worst? The NFL and MLB. And (this is weird) the absolute worst is ... (believe it or not), college Lacrosse. (I mean, what the heck?)

 

 

Based on the guy who played college lacrosse that was in my residence way back when, this does not surprise me.

[Maine Golfer]

The 1980s NBA has something to say here

[AmateurAmateur]

College lacrosse being bad for drug testing isn't that surprising if you know any guys that play it. The lacrosse team used to practically pay my college roommates tuition with their business.

The former PGA tour player I know has some mental struggles so would frequently use Marijuana on tour in an attempt to self-medicate. A lot of times positive drug tests (depending on what it was) were kept on the lowdown and if the player knew they wouldn't pass a randomised test if it were to happen anytime soon, they would quietly WD and list it as some injury of some sort. Likely different since Marijuana isn't really a PED the same way HGH, MK677, BPC 157, or Deer Antler spray is, but I guess the tour still cared enough to test for it back when he was playing. 

Things have likely changed since then.

 

[Ghostwedge]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Some offbeat ruminations. Walked on as a single this past Saturday, got paired with a dude that works for the company that handles the drug testing for a lot of professional sports. Handles the NFL, NBA, MLB, and is even participating in the Olympics this year. Also does college sports. And does the PGAT. This was completely new to me - apparently drugs testing for pro sports is simply a business, with different companies competing for contracts to administer the tests. 

 

As you can imagine, some fascinating conversations - isn't golf great? I've met the most interesting people.

 

Couple curious things? 

 

First, he said the PGAT was way down the list of potential suspicious characters. The folks in our sport apparently usually just don't do drugs. And he said a lot of the (rare times) they were caught, it was often just a mistake that they owned up to ... i.e., these weren't guys taking steroids they know are illegal and trying to hide it, but rather taking some OTC or prescribed drug for a physical condition, and not realizing that it was banned. 

 

The worst? The NFL and MLB. And (this is weird) the absolute worst is ... (believe it or not), college Lacrosse. (I mean, what the heck?)

 

And I hadn't realized how sophisticated both drug testing, and drug testing avoidance strategies (used by players to avoid popping positive) have become. H

 

Anyway - interesting conversation. is company doesn't just test for drugs, but for "masking agents and behaviors". 

 

I asked him about the PGAT's low rates. He went off on this long (biochemical) explanation. The majority of the positive hits across all sports is apparently steroids, and HGH (which technically isn't a steroid - it's a peptide, but sorta has some similar effects). But here's the thing - steroids can build you serious muscle mass and make you stronger (and longer), but they also mess with fine motor controls. So long and short of it, if you are an NFL linebacker, and need to stop some 250 lb beast running at you full force, steroids would give a huge advantage. And would give a golfer an advantage off the tee on a long par 5. But that golfer also needs to face the incredible precision of a bump and run with a short wedge 10 feet off the green. And not only would steroids not help, they could actually hurt. 

 

Anyway, interesting conversation. Though I personally want nothing to do with drugs, I get that a lot of people experiment. But really? My impression of them is:

 

So could the guy play ? Poser ? WITB ? Name on the bag ? What was he wearing ? Golf shoes ? Which ball did he play ? Fast or slow ? Talker or not ?.....

Love the billboard. ☺ lol

[Ferguson]

How in hell does a guy with debilitating neck pain (sporting a new and almost freakishly thick beard) on day-3 suddenly recover in less than 24 hours to shoot a 64 on day-4 without pain?  KT Tape - yeah right.  More like dropping T. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TiScape]

I think I ran into this same guy Bob when volunteering at LACC. My biggest take away. All of Tiger’s tests were handled separately by someone on the inside. 😉 😉 

 

*don’t shoot the messenger 

[Lobby]

This thread could be fun!

[elwhippy]

Golf Pros have the same foibles and chemical issues as the rest of us. I have a severe biscuit addiction but digestives are not on the banned list yet.

Joking aside the majority of sports governing bodies are more bothered about PEDs than narcotics, which could have the reverse effect. There are at least three major winners still active who were keen on hard drugs. Don't recall any of them getting banned.

[caniac6]

7 hours ago, Maine Golfer said:

The 1980s NBA has something to say here

I thought they quit testing for marijuana because the positive returns were so high.

[Maine Golfer]

16 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

I thought they quit testing for marijuana because the positive returns were so high.

The coke use was off the hook in the 80s,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987–88_Phoenix_Suns_season

 

Ive read they dont care about pot. Of all the issues in pro sports I fail to be upset about pot. 

[Phabs]

If you don't think tiger was on some special sauce during his prime you're kidding yourself.   DJ's been on booger sugar since infancy and old Pat Perez i'm SURE has never played a round in competition high as a kite. 

[Maine Golfer]

I would make awful jokes about DJ and Pat and party drugs but Tiger wasn't on sauce to play better. 

[MtlJeff]

Data has shown that when the LPGA tour passes through Montreal , there are abnormally high positive tests for the morning-after pill in the following weeks. 

 

I'll tell you what i tell everyone, I have no comment on this. 

[bobfoster]

 

 

8 hours ago, Maine Golfer said:

The coke use was off the hook in the 80s,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987–88_Phoenix_Suns_season

 

Ive read they dont care about pot. Of all the issues in pro sports I fail to be upset about pot. 

Completely with you on that. 

 

Marijuana as a drug is in the middle of somewhat bizarre legal complications. At the federal level, it is still formally classified as a full Schedule 1 drug - same category as things like LSD, heroin, and meth.

 

A growing number of states, however, are partially or completely legalizing it - it is legal in 38 states for medicinal use, 24 for recreational. There is a fundamental conflict here. The federal government (maybe a decade ago) decided to just do a wink-wink, nod-nod position on the issue, and mostly just tacitly lets the states have their way. The DEA will still go after large illegal importers and distributors, but is just hands off about anything else. (Technically, the federal government could arrest and imprison anyone involved in a grow operation or retail cannabis shop, regardless of the fact that they might be perfectly legal according to a particular state's law. In fact, the federal government could take a number of states to court over the laws they passed.)

 

[Parenthetically, this makes me personally kinda crazy. Just to drive the point home? I run a company, and have federal consulting contracts. I am required, by law, to drug test anyone I hire on those contracts. They can't pop positive for pot (I am required to do what is called a "15 panel" drug screen). But according to NJ state law, I am legally not allowed to use a positive pot test as a primary reason to not hire a candidate. So - get how freaking fun this is. What the federal government absolutely requires me to do is what the state requirement absolutely forbids me to do. I sometimes get dizzy trying to figure out how to navigate this stuff.]

 

The ruling bodies of professional sports, however, are not entirely bound by this. They are private organizations, and are free to choose what drugs to test for (or not test for). They can choose their testing standards. Most of them simply adapt federal regulations as a baseline, and actually often get more stringent - for instance, HGH is totally banned by most sports bodies, but is still perfectly legal for doctors to prescribe for the average guy on the street. 

 

So I think most most pro sports kinda banned marijuana simply because its a Schedule 1 highly restricted drug, without really questioning whether it is a "performance enhancing" drug (which, IMO, should be the real standard). From my experience, I don't really think it is. I've lately seen people smoking pot on golf courses (it became legal for recreational use last year in NJ). Don't think I ever saw it "enhance" anyone's golf. In fact, quite the opposite - the people that smoked a lot of it usually got noticeably worse as the round went on. 

 

I must say, I'm a fan of random drug testing. Don't like the thought of artificial means used to gain an unfair advantage. But by the same token, I am also friends with a few folks that are professional athletes, in several sports. And the daily reality is that these men and women are sore, and play hurt, like, a lot. The elite level of almost every sport is positively brutal on the body. It just is. 

 

I'd be totally fine with the PGAT eliminating pot as a restricted substance. Don't think it even remotely "enhances" anyone's performance. That is, frankly, just flippin' silly. But if a dude wants to smoke a blunt on the Monday morning after walking 28 freakin' miles of extreme elevation changes over four days on Augusta, instead of eating an entire bottle of Advil, I've got no problem with that. 

 

I'm with ya @Maine Golfer. Popping positive for pot is meaningless to me. Actually think it should be removed entirely from the testing criteria. 

.

 

 

 

[Maine Golfer]

Overall making sure pro sports folks don't dope, benefits all of us. The MLB in the late 90s into the 2000s was a joke, society didn't need that. 

Edited March 19 by Maine Golfer

[RSLP]

Here is a set of rules to read:

 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2018/2017-2018_Anti_Doping_Manual.PDF

Edited March 20 by RSLP
Added link

[PedronNiall]

Makes sense that they test for masking agents rather than the substances. If you've ever come across discussions from lifters who use they are very adamant that actively trying to test for specific substances is a joke and that the negative tests for bodybuilders are meaningless. 

 

Ben An popped to mind when it comes to guys testing positive with no idea they'd taken anything illegal. Still wild that he got a suspension when AFAIK he'd never had any prior issue. Tour policy doesn't seem very cut & dry when it comes to how situations are handled. 

 

Given that we see players like Bhatia managing 180 BS I'd think most know juicing isn't remotely necessary to be long off the tee. A potential lifetime of TRT after the fact probably keeps any who seriously consider trying something from following through. 

[Dutch1008]

10 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

Makes sense that they test for masking agents rather than the substances. If you've ever come across discussions from lifters who use they are very adamant that actively trying to test for specific substances is a joke and that the negative tests for bodybuilders are meaningless. 

 

Ben An popped to mind when it comes to guys testing positive with no idea they'd taken anything illegal. Still wild that he got a suspension when AFAIK he'd never had any prior issue. Tour policy doesn't seem very cut & dry when it comes to how situations are handled. 

 

Given that we see players like Bhatia managing 180 BS I'd think most know juicing isn't remotely necessary to be long off the tee. A potential lifetime of TRT after the fact probably keeps any who seriously consider trying something from following through. 

 

Let's see how long Bhatia and Min Woo Lee keep that up or if they end up w/ back problems like Zalatoris. Part of the benefit of strength training and gaining muscle is to help your body manage the forces you're putting on it. Guys that do long drive are probably the extreme example and I'm pretty sure a few of them ain't clean. Bryson went down that path but I don't think he ever juiced. Rory is probably the golden mean. Shed his baby fat and added quite a bit of muscle, but not so much as to compromise his mobility or stability. I think Tiger went a little too far. I don't think his frame, especially his legs, we're built to handle the mass he's added. 

[PedronNiall]

7 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Let's see how long Bhatia and Min Woo Lee keep that up or if they end up w/ back problems like Zalatoris. Part of the benefit of strength training and gaining muscle is to help your body manage the forces you're putting on it. Guys that do long drive are probably the extreme example and I'm pretty sure a few of them ain't clean. Bryson went down that path but I don't think he ever juiced. Rory is probably the golden mean. Shed his baby fat and added quite a bit of muscle, but not so much as to compromise his mobility or stability. I think Tiger went a little too far. I don't think his frame, especially his legs, we're built to handle the mass he's added. 

 

Fully agree that some supporting muscle is the better way to go, but roids are not essential to get distance or to build healthy amounts of supporting muscle and I doubt many in the past would have had long-term back health in their minds when considering using gear. 

 

Just talking about it as it relates to the Tour as that's the topic of this thread.  Very clear some of the long drive guys are sippin' on some syrup. 

[Gregakin]

Ha, no cycling SME's chiming in...this thread is drug testing amateur hour. Pre-school doping. 

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, PedronNiall said:

Makes sense that they test for masking agents rather than the substances. If you've ever come across discussions from lifters who use they are very adamant that actively trying to test for specific substances is a joke and that the negative tests for bodybuilders are meaningless. 

 

Ben An popped to mind when it comes to guys testing positive with no idea they'd taken anything illegal. Still wild that he got a suspension when AFAIK he'd never had any prior issue. Tour policy doesn't seem very cut & dry when it comes to how situations are handled. 

 

Given that we see players like Bhatia managing 180 BS I'd think most know juicing isn't remotely necessary to be long off the tee. A potential lifetime of TRT after the fact probably keeps any who seriously consider trying something from following through. 

Actually, this is one of the things that fascinated me about my conversation with this guy. I mean, I've heard about drug testing in pro sports for years, but had no idea how sophisticated "the game" had gotten. When I think about it - it does make some sense. Pro sports - especially in the big three (NFL, NBA, & MLB) now signs player contracts in the multi-million dollar range. It is ridiculous amounts of money. 

 

And virtually all of those contracts (quite predictably) contain pretty severe penalties for illicit drug use. Note also that it is not the teams that govern testing (teams that would actually have a vested interest in fudging tests, especially for stars), but the governing bodies - i.e., the drug testing company's contract is with the NFL, not with any of the teams it tests. 

 

So with large amounts of money at stake, I guess it is not surprising that serious amounts of money has gone into the science of masking, and behavioral strategies to avoid detection. If you can believe it, there are actually consultants that can be hired to advise on detection avoidance (though it isn't like you can Google them). I mean, dig - in the elite level of pro sports, the top players are actually more like small corporations. The player is the product, but they are surrounded by all manner of agents, accountants, lawyers, trainers, nutritionists, coaches, etc., etc. The fact that there might be "performance optimization" consultants you could hire is not surprising - consultants current with the specifics of the state of the art of drug testing, and developing approaches to take advantage of performance enhancers while still managing to fly under the detection radar. 

 

It is like this weird cold war scenario. New enhancement drugs keep getting developed. New testing keeps getting developed. New testing avoidance keeps getting developed. It is like this whole dirty underground industry (with a lot of money at stake) sits under the elite levels of almost all global sports. 

 

[Side note. The Olympics this year should be very interesting - I'd almost guarantee we are going to have a few drug testing controversies.]

 

Really, it is kinda fascinating. 

 

(And apropos to nothing, apparently LIV does not do any drug testing. If that matters to anyone.)

 

 

Edited March 20 by bobfoster

[Hawkeye77]

Masking agents and significance have been part of the Tour’s policy since it started 15 years ago and there has been highly sophisticated testing and so forth for a long, long time. No doubt there are advances but nothing new. 
 

Marijuana is tested for, will be tested for and nothing about the politics of marijuana use or regulation has anything to do with it.  

[Ferguson]

 

Perhaps a grassroots campaign starting here could stop the use of beta blockers once and for all?

 

 

 

[tomjas]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:20 AM, Maine Golfer said:

The coke use was off the hook in the 80s,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987–88_Phoenix_Suns_season

 

Ive read they dont care about pot. Of all the issues in pro sports I fail to be upset about pot. 

KD is open about his use and there’s no stigma attached to it whatsoever 

[iBanesto]

• Dustin Johnson
• Matt Every
• Will Wilcox

[SlothofDespond]

9 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Masking agents and significance have been part of the Tour’s policy since it started 15 years ago and there has been highly sophisticated testing and so forth for a long, long time. No doubt there are advances but nothing new. 
 

Marijuana is tested for, will be tested for and nothing about the politics of marijuana use or regulation has anything to do with it.  

 

Once the federal government reschedules it (possibly this year) I expect some movement on its inclusion in drug testing panels. Regardless of whether states legalize it, it's a Schedule I on the federal level, and an easy decision for entities to include on the roster of recreational drugs to test for right now.

 

With that said, the situation is increasingly ridiculous. I'm in a state where there are dispensaries everywhere. Half a dozen or more in my town alone. There's a lovely one down the street, you can walk in and buy as much as you want as often as you want. It's civilized.

[Hawkeye77]

13 minutes ago, SlothofDespond said:

 

Once the federal government reschedules it (possibly this year) I expect some movement on its inclusion in drug testing panels. Regardless of whether states legalize it, it's a Schedule I on the federal level, and an easy decision for entities to include on the roster of recreational drugs to test for right now.

 

With that said, the situation is increasingly ridiculous. I'm in a state where there are dispensaries everywhere. Half a dozen or more in my town alone. There's a lovely one down the street, you can walk in and buy as much as you want as often as you want. It's civilized.

 

As long as the PGA Tour wants golf in the Olympics and is subject to WADA it won't change. The rest - don't care.

[Ferguson]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:36 PM, TiScape said:

I think I ran into this same guy Bob when volunteering at LACC. My biggest take away. All of Tiger’s tests were handled separately by someone on the inside. 😉 😉 

 

*don’t shoot the messenger 

 

It couldn't have been Dr. Mike Swango. 

 

[RSLP]

I dislike doping, but it is here to stay. 

 

35+ year old guys are not keeping up just with TPI drills and speed training!  Senior Tour and the PGA owned feeder tours are under the same rules, and it seems like those gents have a lot more on the line to improve quickly.

 

Therapeutic exemptions are the best way "around" the system.  Doubt these are given out fairly.  Going out on medical, and leaving the testing pool is another way "around" the system.  Trying to "cheat" the bottle at the events or at a random call is not a good solution.