What's your biggest "illusion shattering" moments in golf instruction "aha" moments that you wish you knew earlier?

[llewol007]

One big one was swing being the same and the ball position changing in your setup dictates the club you are trying to hit and the angle of attack to which you are coming at the ball. 

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, llewol007 said:

One big one was swing being the same and the ball position changing in your setup dictates the club you are trying to hit and the angle of attack to which you are coming at the ball. 

The swing is not the same with all clubs. 

[llewol007]

8 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The swing is not the same with all clubs. 

Actually is. Length of the club will dictate if it’s more upright versus a little flatter towards the upper end of your bag. 

[TheDeanAbides]

17 minutes ago, llewol007 said:

Actually is. Length of the club will dictate if it’s more upright versus a little flatter towards the upper end of your bag. 

That’s just a myth. The driver swing is not the same as a wedge swing. Same DNA, but not the same swing. 

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, North Butte said:

 

Honestly, I think up until around Y2K the "nip it clean" chipping illusion was almost universal. I can't recall ever encountering anyone who was talking about using the bounce on those shots until, all of a sudden, everyone seemed to figure it out at once. 

I learned a flop shot using the bounce from a Golf Digest article in the 80’s.  The article was was about Paul Runyon helping Jack Nicklaus with his short game.  The idea was to make a long slow swing using a sand wedge with completely relaxed hands letting the clubhead pass the hands through impact while hitting the ground an inch or so behind the ball.  The sand wedge was the one club in the bag with bounce in those days.  Also this shot was done using a square face as opposed to opening the face which is how most players hit high shots with their sand wedge back then.

 

I remember that the idea seemed rather incredulous to me when I first read it.  I did learn the shot though and I actually got pretty good at it.  
 

Anyway it seems that Runyan was using the bounce back in 30s.

[MysteryV]

Learning that "Turn your hips" has multiple meanings.

 

Of particular note me was that it can mean turning your pelvis as a unit - but it can also mean turning your thigh / femur / legs within your individual hips at different rates in different directions.

[Nels55]

I did a lot of trying doing drills etc. but could not figure out how to re-center consistently.  I had a video lesson with @MonteScheinblum and I started to re-center without trying to.  Here is how:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=febbe1a5-855f-4bd4-8869-3f0e76904048

[PedronNiall]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

I started playing golf at 12 which was the exact same time my dad assigned me the task of weed whipping the back yard of our summer house. That weed whipping action taught me all I needed to know about the golf swing.

 

Shawn Clement is all about pulling one of those things out to discuss the simple things that make up basic motions of the swing. Unfortunately until recently the most prevalent teaching resembled magic more than the real, but at least some were trying and many more are now. 

[Nard_S]

The importance of hip depth. Depth in general. Seeing the swing more in a levered motion that works in 3 planes that are 90* off each other. Always too focused in on other two. Swing is much better for it.

[brick101]

Play the shot shape that matches ball position.

 

For wedges this means a little draw with the ball back and the club will be moving from "in to out. 

 

For driver this means hit a fade because the ball is forward and the club will be moving from "out to in". 

 

For long irons and woods it will be easiest to move the ball both directions because the ball starts in the middle of stance and the path is more neutral.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, brick101 said:

For long irons and woods it will be easiest to move the ball both directions because the ball starts in the middle of stance and the path is more neutral.

 

[Scottbox]

The Ignore Profile option on Golfwrx.

[brick101]

Of course the you don't move (curve) the ball with a straight path, but you can vary the path more easily when the ball is in the middle of your stance. ... Much easier to be either in-to-out or out-to-in with the ball in the middle of the stance.  

 

 

Try putting the ball 3in back in your stance and hitting a lower slice. It's much more difficult than hitting a high slice with the ball 3in forward.

 

I'm also not saying that I won't ever hit a low slice (ball slightly back) or a high hook (ball slightly forward). Just that those shots are more challenging and not the default. 

 

Edited April 27 by brick101

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, brick101 said:

Of course the you don't move (curve) the ball with a straight path, but you can vary the path more easily when the ball is in the middle of your stance. ... Much easier to be either in-to-out or out-to-in with the ball in the middle of the stance.

 

Try putting the ball 3in back in your stance and hitting a lower slice. It's much more difficult than hitting a high slice with the ball 3in forward.

 

I'm also not saying that I won't ever hit a low slice (ball slightly back) or a high hook (ball slightly forward). Just that those shots are more challenging and not the default.

 

The ball does not belong in the middle of your stance — or even farther back than that — with long irons. Nor even mid-irons… or short irons, for a standard shot.

 

Back of the ball at the middle of your stance or progressively farther forward.

[SNIPERBBB]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:44 PM, Mike_C said:

That you don't rotate around your right leg (which some old guy taught me when I was young), you rotate around a center axis, your spine.  

I vaguely remember someone teaching rotate around your trail leg for a draw and lead leg for fades

[hafnia]

Loving 

On 4/26/2024 at 10:32 PM, Valtiel said:

 

Definitely this. Pressure traces show you what is actually happening internally that is easily a step or two ahead of what we tend to recognize visually in the swing from the outside. It's one of those big pieces that explains why so many things are "late" in the average player's swing. 

The real "illusion shattering moment" is understanding what this actually feels like to do it right, and the "feel vs. real" demons you normally have to defeat along the way. 

I struggle with fat shots and believe it's due to two things- steep downswing and not getting weight forward. 
 

when I try and get forward sooner I really struggle - what's your thoughts on how this feels when you start doing it correctly? Is there a painful process to go through? 

[Socrates]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:22 AM, North Butte said:

I can only think of one "illusion" I suffered from for the first good many years of my golfing life.

 

Up until about 20 years ago, all of the chipping and pitching technique I'd been taught was predicated on nipping the ball as cleanly as possible, having the leading edge of the club precisely meet the point where the ball touches the ground. And I was terrible at it. I have pretty mediocre hand-eye coordination, not a lot of natural athletic ability and I also tend to tense up and get quick on those little shots. I had played for a decade or more with chipping the most frustrating part of the game. 

 

Then at a lesson one day, my teacher introduced "use the bounce". We did three or four lessons on "use the bounce" over the next year or so and sure enough it has taken most of the stress and fear out of shots in that (once dreaded) 20-40 yard range. 

 

Honestly, I think up until around Y2K the "nip it clean" chipping illusion was almost universal. I can't recall ever encountering anyone who was talking about using the bounce on those shots until, all of a sudden, everyone seemed to figure it out at once. 

In the chipping vein...

 

Until I saw a video (Mike Malaska, I think), it had never occurred to me that the shoulders should be level (or close to it) when chipping.  Watching all the Tour players from then on, it became really apparent that I had been wasting so much time with a bad setup and getting bad results.

[North Butte]

31 minutes ago, Socrates said:

In the chipping vein...

 

Until I saw a video (Mike Malaska, I think), it had never occurred to me that the shoulders should be level (or close to it) when chipping.  Watching all the Tour players from then on, it became really apparent that I had been wasting so much time with a bad setup and getting bad results.

And then there's illusion where you think you've leveled your shoulders out, then you see yourself on video and you're STILL tilting them. D'oh!

 

Honestly, I'm really only stupid when I have a golf club in my hands. Otherwise, I'm smarter than the average bear.

[Righty to Lefty]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:40 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

The swing is not the same with all clubs. 

The swing is the exact same with all clubs....ALL  clubs being hit off the ground are struck with the same relation to low point but the build of the club makes fairway woods look forward in stance, and wedges look back, when they are in the exact same orientation to low point of the swing arc. Shots hit off a tee are struck at a different point along the swing  arc depending on tee height.  There is no such thing as a driver and an iron swing, only understanding of what one point along the swing arc all shots hit off the ground must be struck at, and then understanding that tee height controls how positive your AOA can be when hitting a ball off a tee.  

 

All shots hit off the ground should be struck with the exact same orientation to low point but with a wedge the butt end of the club is in front of club face so the shoulder plane will be more left, and with a fairway wood the club face is more in line with the butt end of the club so it will be less left, but the low point for all of them should be the same amount in front of the ball: 

 

This model represents any club being hit off the ground: 

 

While this model represents a specific tee height and the plane of your swing/ shoulder line must be adjusted accordingly to account for your tee height: 

 

The same swing motion produces both of these shots but they are simply struck at different locations along the swing  arc.  

[Righty to Lefty]

15 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The swing is the exact same with all clubs....ALL  clubs being hit off the ground are struck with the same relation to low point but the build of the club makes fairway woods look forward in stance, and wedges look back, when they are in the exact same orientation to low point of the swing arc. Shots hit off a tee are struck at a different point along the swing  arc depending on tee height.  There is no such thing as a driver and an iron swing, only understanding of what one point along the swing arc all shots hit off the ground must be struck at, and then understanding that tee height controls how positive your AOA can be when hitting a ball off a tee.  

 

All shots hit off the ground should be struck with the exact same orientation to low point but with a wedge the butt end of the club is in front of club face so the shoulder plane will be more left, and with a fairway wood the club face is more in line with the butt end of the club so it will be less left, but the low point for all of them should be the same amount in front of the ball: 

 

This model represents any club being hit off the ground: 

 

While this model represents a specific tee height and the plane of your swing/ shoulder line must be adjusted accordingly to account for your tee height: 

 

The same swing motion produces both of these shots but they are simply struck at different locations along the swing  arc.  

 

23 hours ago, brick101 said:

Play the shot shape that matches ball position.

 

For wedges this means a little draw with the ball back and the club will be moving from "in to out. 

 

For driver this means hit a fade because the ball is forward and the club will be moving from "out to in". 

 

For long irons and woods it will be easiest to move the ball both directions because the ball starts in the middle of stance and the path is more neutral.

This is not correct as any shot hit off the ground should be struck on in to out portion of the swing arc prior to low point of the swing arc denoted by the pencil mark on the trash can lid as this will create a negative angle of attack. Conversely all shots hit off a tee that you intend to have a positive AoA on are struck on the out to in portion of the swing arc after low point.  Shot shape is created by adjusting your shoulder line/ plane left or right while holding the face in place creating a difference between face and path. Your suggestion will compromise strike and leverage and will be inefficient.  Am I making sense? 

Edited April 28 by Righty to Lefty

[golferdude54]

On 4/27/2024 at 8:07 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

That’s just a myth. The driver swing is not the same as a wedge swing. Same DNA, but not the same swing. 

 

It's the same swing when 12 clubs are contacting the ground but not with driver off a tee, which never contacts the ground whatsoever. However, letting the clubhead sit on the ground with FW's, hybrids, irons, and wedges at address and hovering the driver above the ground could yield a more similar swing than if you didn't do so.

[berndgeurts]

For me it was learning to effectively train.

Before I was raking balls, doing the same faults over and over. Hoping that grinding the same thing would make me a better golfer. Now I know that is not the way learning a new body movement.

No I spent a lot of time training in my living room without a golf ball.

 

Laat 5 years I learnt more than the 20 years before.

Or it was because of golfwrx

[nikos74]

 

More than one way to play good golf.

[Ghostwedge]

37 minutes ago, nikos74 said:

 

More than one way to play good golf.

Clay is a good teacher and coach as are a lot of guys like Malaysia and Monte.

But for those who lack the hand-eye coordination and or physical ability to turn properly thru the golf swing I would emphasize the move at 4:10 instead. The split hand drill thru impact is the "aha" moment. jmo

[nikos74]

16 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

Clay is a good teacher and coach as are a lot of guys like Malaysia and Monte.

But for those who lack the hand-eye coordination and or physical ability to turn properly thru the golf swing I would emphasize the move at 4:10 instead. The split hand drill thru impact is the "aha" moment. jmo

I try to match my backswing to my downswing from the beginning so I don't have to re-route the club in the transition much, if at all.  That is the basis of the "one plane swing" and the one piece takeaway.

 

But turning through the ball is essential in the downswing.  I think lots of people have a wider stance than they should and don't flare their lead foot out.  This inhibits hip rotation a lot.

 

Malaysia= Mike Malaska?

Edited April 29 by nikos74

[Ghostwedge]

3 minutes ago, nikos74 said:

I try to match my backswing to my downswing from the beginning so I don't have re-route the club in the transition much, if at all.  That is the basis of the "one plane swing".  But turning through the ball is essential in the downswing.  I think lots of people have a wider stance than they should and don't flare their lead foot out.  This inhibits hip rotation a lot.

 

Malaysia= Mike Malaska?

Me and this auto correct are not on the same page apparently. Good catch.

The stance width to me is correct when you can turn thru the ball and maintain your balance into that " trophy finish." 

I see guys who "lift" to the top of their backswing and they hit it all over the place. It takes serious athleticism to do the re-routing. 

 

 

 

[RacineBoxer]

Shaft lean in short game pitching/chipping. Spent 10+ years trying to pitch with excessive forward shaft lean, ball back, and trying to strike it just perfect. Thought there was something wrong with me that the margin of error seemed so low (using a 60 none the less).

[North Butte]

Just now, RacineBoxer said:

Shaft lean in short game pitching/chipping. Spent 10+ years trying to pitch with excessive forward shaft lean, ball back, and trying to strike it just perfect. Thought there was something wrong with me that the margin of error seemed so low (using a 60 none the less).

Yep that's what I was taught as a beginner and what I tried (and failed utterly) to do for my first decade-plus of playing golf. Using the bounce, neutralizing my setup and not "trying to strike it just perfect" pretty much turned me into some semblance of a real golfer rather than a yippy, twitchy mess any time I couldn't either take a full swing or use a putter. 

[RacineBoxer]

20 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The swing is the exact same with all clubs....ALL  clubs being hit off the ground are struck with the same relation to low point but the build of the club makes fairway woods look forward in stance, and wedges look back, when they are in the exact same orientation to low point of the swing arc. Shots hit off a tee are struck at a different point along the swing  arc depending on tee height.  There is no such thing as a driver and an iron swing, only understanding of what one point along the swing arc all shots hit off the ground must be struck at, and then understanding that tee height controls how positive your AOA can be when hitting a ball off a tee.  

 

All shots hit off the ground should be struck with the exact same orientation to low point but with a wedge the butt end of the club is in front of club face so the shoulder plane will be more left, and with a fairway wood the club face is more in line with the butt end of the club so it will be less left, but the low point for all of them should be the same amount in front of the ball: 

 

This model represents any club being hit off the ground: 

 

While this model represents a specific tee height and the plane of your swing/ shoulder line must be adjusted accordingly to account for your tee height: 

 

The same swing motion produces both of these shots but they are simply struck at different locations along the swing  arc.  

 

Seems overly simplistic to say they are all the same when you factor in things like standing closer or farther, shaft more vertical or dropping your hands lower, shallow vs steep, low flighted spinny vs high and soft, etc. Maybe this logic isn't meant to be applied to hitting a variety of <100 yard shots? I mean... would anyone argue a bunker shot is the same swing as a 9 iron chip? 

[Simpsonia]

For me it was a total reconceptualization of how I envisioned the hands and wrists worked together. I came from a baseball background where the wrists are generally working the in the same direction at the same time, ie the wrists generally work towards radial/ulnar deviation at the same time. My big aha moment came as I switched from a very weak lead hand grip to a neutral to slightly strong lead hand grip (2.5-3 knuckle) with a neutral trail hand grip.

 

I realized that the wrists are no longer primarily working in the same axes at the same time, ie in the release when the lead wrist moves in the radial/ulnar deviation plane, the trail hand grip is moving more in the flexion/extension plane. I discovered this independently, but later came upon a Malaska video showing and describing it, though I'm not sure I really buy into all of the follow-through stuff he espouses afterwards. Now I fully acknowledge that there's a large combination of other axes the wrists are moving through, and will also vary highly depending on grip, but it helps me to think of those two axes as the 'primary' release wrist actions (lead: radial->ulnar; trail: extension->flexion). 

 

Starting around @1:43. 

 

Edited April 29 by Simpsonia