Tiger is lost

[square]

current swing not good

I watched Tiger live a few times as a junior player and collegiate.
One of the hallmarks of his technique was a nice tall address posture. This posture promoted a , relaxed shoulder turn and nice efficient pivot (weight transefr). Tiger addressed the ball with that traditional ,textbook technique, since he was a little kid.
Haney messed Tiger up some, but now this fraud Foley has Tiger completely off track. These days Tiger is using a terrible address posture, bending over way too much. All one can do with that bent over posture is hang on the left side and make an ineffective arm swing, which is what Tiger is doing now.

[Thrillhouse]

I didn't like it when he was first working with Foley, but its starting to look good to me. I have seen him put more good swings on drivers the last couple of events than I have in I don't know how long. Great tempo and not coming out of it as much, I like it!

[Vindog]

I'm no Tiger honk, but this thread will resemble your handle... falling [b]square[/b] on its face

[mx6262]

I have never been a TW fan, but there was a time that noone could touch him. Its bad that his swing is in the state that its in now, No top tour player had overhauled there swing as often as TW has. I agree with the statement LOST.......SAD to see a great player mess with great tallent. I understand the desire to be better but theres more going on here than Golf......again SAD.

[square]

Tiger's swing rhythm and tempo started to go bad from working with Haney. Haney doesn't know what he is doing, messed with Tiger's fundamentally sound technique, and got Tiger off track a bit.
Now Foley is a total fraud who is going to absolutely destroy Tiger's swing. Tiger should fire Foley and stop this nonsense at once. Bending over alot at address, hanging on the left side throughout the backswing, not making a weight shift, and basically just making an arm swing, doesn't work. It never has and never will.

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329953561' post='4353513']
I didn't like it when he was first working with Foley, but its starting to look good to me. I have seen him put more good swings on drivers the last couple of events than I have in I don't know how long. Great tempo and not coming out of it as much, I like it!
[/quote]

[pappaf2]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1329954892' post='4353713']
Tiger's swing rhythm and tempo started to go bad from working with Haney. Haney doesn't know what he is doing, messed with Tiger's fundamentally sound technique, and got Tiger off track a bit.
Now Foley is a total fraud who is going to absolutely destroy Tiger's swing. Tiger should fire Foley and stop this nonsense at once. Bending over alot at address, hanging on the left side throughout the backswing, not making a weight shift, and basically just making an arm swing, doesn't work. It never has and never will.
[/quote]


Really you classify Tigers new action as an arm swing? It seems like it is based more off core / body rotation to me. When he has been "on" his swing recently he is hitting the ball really well.

[Vindog]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1329954892' post='4353713']
Tiger's swing rhythm and tempo started to go bad from working with Haney. Haney doesn't know what he is doing, [b]messed with Tiger's fundamentally sound technique, and got Tiger off track a bit.[/b]
Now Foley is a total fraud who is going to absolutely destroy Tiger's swing. Tiger should fire Foley and stop this nonsense at once. Bending over alot at address, hanging on the left side throughout the backswing, not making a weight shift, and basically just making an arm swing, doesn't work. It never has and never will.
[/quote]

The stats don't back that up, particularly the major wins.

[TheMackDaddy]

Until you win 14 majors, don't tell Tiger how to play the game of golf.

[square]

"Core/body rotation" is the nonsense jargon which the stack and tilt frauds all espouse. It is poison.
No player can make a consistently efficient, powerful, repeatable swing from bad address posture.
When a player uses fundamentally sound, tall address posture, he is promoting a good, relaxed, level shoulder turn and pivot (weight transfer).
His weight is working for him.
The stack and tilt crap is about bending over too far (bad address posture) standing too far from the ball (bad address posture). From there a player cannot make a good level shoulder turn and, or, pivot (weight transfer). The bad stack and tilt address posture promotes dipping the left shoulder downward (not a level shoulder turn), no weight transfer, and hanging on the left side. It's poison.
Tiger should stop this nonsense right now, while he is young enough to get back on track with the solid textbook fundamentals that he used since he was a junior player.

[quote name='pappaf2' timestamp='1329955352' post='4353767']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1329954892' post='4353713']
Tiger's swing rhythm and tempo started to go bad from working with Haney. Haney doesn't know what he is doing, messed with Tiger's fundamentally sound technique, and got Tiger off track a bit.
Now Foley is a total fraud who is going to absolutely destroy Tiger's swing. Tiger should fire Foley and stop this nonsense at once. Bending over alot at address, hanging on the left side throughout the backswing, not making a weight shift, and basically just making an arm swing, doesn't work. It never has and never will.
[/quote]


Really you classify Tigers new action as an arm swing? It seems like it is based more off core / body rotation to me. When he has been "on" his swing recently he is hitting the ball really well.
[/quote]

[deasy55]

[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1329955479' post='4353783']
Until you win 14 majors, don't tell Tiger how to play the game of golf.
[/quote]


By this logic only Jack is allowed have an opinion on Tiger's game

[TheMackDaddy]

The thing is I have no problem with any of Tiger's teachers telling him how to swing, but when a forum junkie posts about how Tiger can improve... I just don't think it's going too accomplish anything but start drama. [quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1329956262' post='4353913']
[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1329955479' post='4353783']
Until you win 14 majors, don't tell Tiger how to play the game of golf.
[/quote]


By this logic only Jack is allowed have an opinion on Tiger's game
[/quote]

[square]

Tiger can look at the photos in his own golf book, "How I play Golf" by Tiger Woods. 2001.
On pages 98 and 99 Tiger provides photos of a correct address posture and bad address posture. Since he was a kid he used the fundamentally sound correct address posture. Now he is using the bad address posture he wrote in his book (and illustrated with photographs) that a player should not use.

[quote name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1329955479' post='4353783']
Until you win 14 majors, don't tell Tiger how to play the game of golf.
[/quote]

[dangolf]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1329956029' post='4353887']
"Core/body rotation" is the nonsense jargon which the stack and tilt frauds all espouse. It is poison.
[b]No player can make a consistently efficient[/b], powerful, [b]repeatable swing from bad address posture.[/b]
When a player uses fundamentally sound, tall address posture, he is promoting a good, relaxed, level shoulder turn and pivot (weight transfer).
His weight is working for him.
The stack and tilt crap is about bending over too far (bad address posture) standing too far from the ball (bad address posture). From there a player cannot make a good level shoulder turn and, or, pivot (weight transfer). The bad stack and tilt address posture promotes dipping the left shoulder downward (not a level shoulder turn), no weight transfer, and hanging on the left side. It's poison.
Tiger should stop this nonsense right now, while he is young enough to get back on track with the solid textbook fundamentals that he used since he was a junior player.

[quote name='pappaf2' timestamp='1329955352' post='4353767']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1329954892' post='4353713']
Tiger's swing rhythm and tempo started to go bad from working with Haney. Haney doesn't know what he is doing, messed with Tiger's fundamentally sound technique, and got Tiger off track a bit.
Now Foley is a total fraud who is going to absolutely destroy Tiger's swing. Tiger should fire Foley and stop this nonsense at once. Bending over alot at address, hanging on the left side throughout the backswing, not making a weight shift, and basically just making an arm swing, doesn't work. It never has and never will.
[/quote]


Really you classify Tigers new action as an arm swing? It seems like it is based more off core / body rotation to me. When he has been "on" his swing recently he is hitting the ball really well.
[/quote]
[/quote]


matt kuchar for being as tall as he is doesnt stand tall at address, and i would say he has a very efficient, and repeatable swing, not as powerful as some but still very consistant.

[Vindog]

[quote name='dangolf' timestamp='1329956697' post='4353983']


matt kuchar for being as tall as he is doesnt stand tall at address, and i would say he has a very efficient, and repeatable swing, not as powerful as some but still very consistant.
[/quote]

And look at Keegan as well. He looks like his clubs are 2 inches too short.

[jimb]

Tiger just looked terrible today. He hit the driver erratically. His iron play wasn't very good. His short game is a mess. His chipping is not very good and this is not the same guy with the flat stick that we all remember. I don't know what positives he could take away for today's match into the rest of the week.

Fans of Tiger keep waiting for him to return to form. I don't see that happening. You get glimpses now and again, but they are not sustained and can seem to disappear mid-round.

There is a mess going on inside Woods. It is not a matter of coaching or instruction. I would bet he is great on the range and on the putting/chipping green. I would like to see him return to form as he is great for the game, love him or hate him. He has done things with a golf ball no one else ever has.

[geesecougar2]

Basically you gotta do the opposite of whatever the OP says.

[TigerStrong]

Tiger is trying to be perfect...golf is not perfect

[mikpga]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1329953455' post='4353505']
I watched Tiger live a few times as a junior player and collegiate.
One of the hallmarks of his technique was a nice tall address posture. This posture promoted a , relaxed shoulder turn and nice efficient pivot (weight transefr). Tiger addressed the ball with that traditional ,textbook technique, since he was a little kid.
Haney messed Tiger up some, but now this fraud Foley has Tiger completely off track. These days Tiger is using a terrible address posture, bending over way too much. All one can do with that bent over posture is hang on the left side and make an ineffective arm swing, which is what Tiger is doing now.
[/quote]


Wow! "...this fraud Foley..."

To each their own...

[dangolf]

[quote name='jimb' timestamp='1329957075' post='4354041']
Tiger just looked terrible today. He hit the driver erratically. His iron play wasn't very good. His short game is a mess. His chipping is not very good and this is not the same guy with the flat stick that we all remember. I don't know what positives he could take away for today's match into the rest of the week.

Fans of Tiger keep waiting for him to return to form. I don't see that happening. You get glimpses now and again, but they are not sustained and can seem to disappear mid-round.

There is a mess going on inside Woods. It is not a matter of coaching or instruction. I would bet he is great on the range and on the putting/chipping green. I would like to see him return to form as he is great for the game, love him or hate him. He has done things with a golf ball no one else ever has.
[/quote]

the good thing about tiger is that he can turn that around in 1 day. he knows he will have to play much better with watney tomorrow. you can bet on woods being much sharper tomorrow.

[Joker III]

Personally I think Tiger is going down the right track. He used to be the most explosive golfer on tour (maybe one or two exceptions) but golf now is more about precision, anyone can hit it long, Luke Donald proves you don't need to be a bomber to be good.

Tiger is developing a new swing that will be launching the ball staighter than he ever used to. Plus he has been out of the game for a while, once he fine tunes this swing he will be back to unbeatable again.

Golf is all about accuracy and if Tiger is in the middle of learning to be more accurate than he used to be then watch out everyone.

BTW I'm not a TW fan, I'm from Northern Ireland so I'm a McIlroy and McDowell fan but TW is still the master if you ask me..... you don't lose those skillz overnight.

[rafal]

Looks like a beautiful relationship to me...

[attachment=1037901:tig2.png]
[attachment=1037899:tig1.png]

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='left handed pull cart' timestamp='1329957480' post='4354091']
. .. I've seen him screw up many a people
[/quote]

King George VI is alive!

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='TigerStrong' timestamp='1329957355' post='4354073']
Tiger is trying to be perfect...golf is not perfect
[/quote]

This is exactly what I have always thought. He's trying to be able to hit any shot at any time, and while he got as close as anyone ever from 3 wood to wedge, he has never been able to do it with the 45.25 inch driver. When you add in the impact of balls that don't curve as much, it makes it even harder to work the modern driver on command.

I don't think it's possible, not even Hogan could have done it. You've gotta make exaggerated moves in your swing from shot to shot that take you out of the corridor of success and introduce erratic misses into the equation, moves that none of the past greats had to make. He's holding himself to antiquated standards that are totally unattainable in the modern game.

I think he should simplify his shot selection with the driver, just go to a high launch low spin power fade. With his command of the long and mid irons, and considering that he hits them further than almost anyone out there, he doesn't need the occasional huge drive to win. I think as he gets older and less explosive with every year, the simplification will come naturally and he will get a 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th) wind. At that point, he will admit that he regrets not simplifying sooner, and lost a few years chasing perfection.

[Golfnutgalen]

The thing is, Tiger's never been that accurate off the tee, though he was pretty good in '99 and 2000 when he ranked 49th and 54th. Only 4 times in his whole career has he been in the top 100, the others being in 1997 (96th) and 2009 (86th). I would say Tiger's main problem right now is his putting and short-iron play, well that and he has to regain some confidence. How else can you explain why he has played outstanding (tee to green) for 3 rounds and then just fall apart on the last.

[golfmass11]

his swing is better now than when he was with haney, but his swing with butch was as perfect as it will ever get. just my opinion

[cinnepa]

IMO it'll never be like butch's again because of his constant injuries. seems like now he's trying to find something that won't hurt him anymore in the long run.

[Yzmerf]

I am by no means a Tiger fan, he lacks professionalism, but he is getting closer now than he has been in a while. I taught for 15 years and got to work for or watch some of the best teachers in the country.(Worked for LaBauve and would watch both Haney and Jim Hardy teach when they were at our club). Everyone is entitled to an opinion but to say he is just swinging with his arms now is incorrect, the closer you stand the more you use your arms to swing, the farther away the more you use your body. (Think Mo Norman) the trick is finding the correct amount of both to match your body type.

[bobfoster]

[quote name='cinnepa' timestamp='1329959352' post='4354345']
IMO it'll never be like butch's again because of his constant injuries. seems like now he's trying to find something that won't hurt him anymore in the long run.
[/quote]


You nailed it. He is not looking for a swing that lets him play like he did when he was 20 ... he's looking for a swing that can keep him competitive ... and HEALTHY ... for another decade. Very different goals.

[jons1]

Butch did a great job with him. Haney did a great job with him. Foley is doing a great job with him.

Why he keeps changing, I don't truly know, but clearly HE thinks he needs to get better.

[gators78]

Square you forgot to add clearly Tiger doesn't hit it as far as they make it seem on TGC...