2013 TaylorMade R1 Driver: Review, Video and Pics

[Hazlo]

[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1357327586' post='6168247']
[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1357327298' post='6168215']
But how do you know that Tom Sites has not invented something revolutionary that allows NIKE to do this with out stupid looking compus on the bottom?????



[size=6]IS NIKE LYING ??????????????????[/size]
[/quote]

[b][size=6]NO[/size][/b]

Nike does in fact allow face angle adjustment.
BUT like I said, face angle and loft are not independent. You change one and the other changes.
Nike does allow you to change both, but getting a perfect square face for every instance of loft is not going to happen with Nikes Right or Left adjustment.
The R1 has several more adjustments to face angle via the sole adjuster.
[/quote]


So no matter what there is no technology in the world that will allow you to change the loft from 8.5 to 12 and have the face be perfectly square for every loft change??????

[BirdieBob]

[quote name='Hazlo' timestamp='1357331690' post='6168713']
[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1357327586' post='6168247']
[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1357327298' post='6168215']
But how do you know that Tom Sites has not invented something revolutionary that allows NIKE to do this with out stupid looking compus on the bottom?????



[size=6]IS NIKE LYING ??????????????????[/size]
[/quote]

[b][size=6]NO[/size][/b]

Nike does in fact allow face angle adjustment.
BUT like I said, face angle and loft are not independent. You change one and the other changes.
Nike does allow you to change both, but getting a perfect square face for every instance of loft is not going to happen with Nikes Right or Left adjustment.
The R1 has several more adjustments to face angle via the sole adjuster.
[/quote]


So no matter what there is no technology in the world that will allow you to change the loft from 8.5 to 12 and have the face be perfectly square for every loft change??????
[/quote]

Of course you can............
Nike says so...here's some Kool-Aid to drink:

[url="http://golfweek.com/news/2012/nov/05/nike-introduces-its-new-red-covert-driver-line/"]http://golfweek.com/...rt-driver-line/[/url]
Nike says loft and face angle operate independently in Covert clubs. The company says loft can be decoupled from face angle, allowing golfers to choose different face angles without affecting loft. Nike says this provides 15 combinations of loft and face angle.
“We’ve done it,” said Rob Arluna, Nike Golf’s global golf club business director. “These settings allow golfers to make distinct changes in the golf club and the way it performs.”
How did Stites accomplish this?
The Covert hosel is slightly oversized and contains the hardware that controls loft and face-angle adjustability. It is a very sophisticated design, containing mechanisms that might be compared to gears on a bicycle.


Some more Kool-Aid.....about 2 minutes into the vid......Now back to the R1 discussion.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e7lO5HXCAhw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=e7lO5HXCAhw[/url]

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='TMBob' timestamp='1357328478' post='6168333']
CP, I have to ask you this....was there a Headcover in your box? Not one in min which is quite different to say the least.
[/quote]

There was no headcover, which I was a little bummed about. But then again I was blessed with a free driver so shutup.

I wish I had the headcover, I use a different headcover with the logo of the junior tour I run anyway but I just wish I had the white R1 headcover so when I play down in Florida at the PGA show people can stare in awe.

[preshotroutine]

[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1357332797' post='6168859']
[quote name='Hazlo' timestamp='1357331690' post='6168713']
[quote name='BirdieBob' timestamp='1357327586' post='6168247']
[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1357327298' post='6168215']
But how do you know that Tom Sites has not invented something revolutionary that allows NIKE to do this with out stupid looking compus on the bottom?????



[size=6]IS NIKE LYING ??????????????????[/size]
[/quote]

[b][size=6]NO[/size][/b]

Nike does in fact allow face angle adjustment.
BUT like I said, face angle and loft are not independent. You change one and the other changes.
Nike does allow you to change both, but getting a perfect square face for every instance of loft is not going to happen with Nikes Right or Left adjustment.
The R1 has several more adjustments to face angle via the sole adjuster.
[/quote]


So no matter what there is no technology in the world that will allow you to change the loft from 8.5 to 12 and have the face be perfectly square for every loft change??????
[/quote]

Of course you can............
Nike says so...here's some Kool-Aid to drink:

[url="http://golfweek.com/news/2012/nov/05/nike-introduces-its-new-red-covert-driver-line/"]http://golfweek.com/...rt-driver-line/[/url]
Nike says loft and face angle operate independently in Covert clubs. The company says loft can be decoupled from face angle, allowing golfers to choose different face angles without affecting loft. Nike says this provides 15 combinations of loft and face angle.
“We’ve done it,” said Rob Arluna, Nike Golf’s global golf club business director. “These settings allow golfers to make distinct changes in the golf club and the way it performs.”
How did Stites accomplish this?
The Covert hosel is slightly oversized and contains the hardware that controls loft and face-angle adjustability. It is a very sophisticated design, containing mechanisms that might be compared to gears on a bicycle.


Some more Kool-Aid.....about 2 minutes into the vid......Now back to the R1 discussion.


[/quote]


I don't want to drink the Koolaide I want to be educated! There has to be more scientific evidence of what you are saying other then just to trust you because you say it! Where did you get your info? Have you designed clubs? Are you an engineering student etc?

[KCCO]

I know i know....So to clear this up for me, with a Single driver all lofts, each loft will have a different degree of open/closed face correct? That really doesn't make sense to me as a benefit, and I hover my driver if that matters in any of this, so I'm guessing like it or not, get used to the paint scheme because I'm sure you will need all the alignment aid you can get with adjustability if I'm on same page. It doesn't bother me, just don't understand trying to cram everything in one.... I don't really like the huge compass on the bottom, just more to clean, and i prefer the look of rbz line better...but I say stock up on r11s v2/v3 and paint it black! Make that ur 2013:)

Also, because of the what I consider lack of dialing in what you want, will more tour players be playing RBZ?

Sorry if this was already posted 100 times, didn't want to go thru pages of paint scheme opinions.... Face it u want black, titey or ping.....

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1357335761' post='6169185']
[quote name='TMBob' timestamp='1357328478' post='6168333']
CP, I have to ask you this....was there a Headcover in your box? Not one in min which is quite different to say the least.
[/quote]

There was no headcover, which I was a little bummed about. But then again I was blessed with a free driver so shutup.

I wish I had the headcover, I use a different headcover with the logo of the junior tour I run anyway but I just wish I had the white R1 headcover so when I play down in Florida at the PGA show people can stare in awe.
[/quote]"Shutup" ....you beat me to it!!

[Rebel420]

I know I would not complain if TM sent me a gift like that! Congrats, guys! Hit'em good! And if you don't like them, I'll be glad to take it off your hands for you

[MNGolfNut]

I know Taylormade sells more drivers than anyone but they're continuing to lose me. Loved my R5, wanted the R7 but never got it...by the time they went to white they lost me, now with this clown driver I may never come back. I wouldn't care if I gained 25 yds with it, I could never look down at it and not feel like I was swinging something I can take serious. With that said, it's just me. I can also see younger golfers jumping all over it. Will be interesting to see how this year's driver crop shakes out...lots of fun new toys to check out.

[stage1350]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1357270175' post='6164549']
[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1357269717' post='6164481']
As I said last week and still holds true here... All the pros and cons about the paint scheme and looks seems to take the stage here. I have not read all the comments here but I will say I have hit this beast and while the scuderia paint scheme will detour some, the performance and tour play will most likely prevail to sway many of us to try it. While the looks got me at first, I was quick to move on and become a fan as I usually do. The same with the white paint of the r11. I was even more shocked a few years ago. But soon got over it.

No numbers yet but I hit this cannon and will tell you this. They made the sound better, much better. Doesn't sound like the RBZ Tour but is a more muted sound than the last r11s, but also has a deep yet loaded thuuud. The type of sound that you want to hear unlike some of the past generations. I played the RBZ because I dialed the flight perfect but tried harder on that head because the sound was right. The R11s was earplug loud on the right hit. I didnt love it. This R1 head says at impact... "wait a second I compressing and need to develop" then it goes... "Thuuud with a touch of "Thwaaaack" that says I murdered it! Seriously. After burners.

Yes I am talking third person as if I was the R1 driver.

I only hit one head but I loved the sound. The flight and trajectory were awesome and I just remember knowing that it was going to be a contender for 13. As I write this I cant wait to take the unit out to get some number to see if the tech that Zak and TMag said makes a difference. Zak was busy all week doing back to back comparisons on the trackman vs last years to see if we can develop some objective data.

Head cover is good to. Feels like a better quality heavier material. My short take is this will be a winner. Head sounds great and flight seems dead on. Can't wait to throw in my gamer shaft and see how it performs.

I showed my father who is in his 70's but a golfers golfer and I was ready for him to say something like "ohh my god". He said for real... "ewe... I like it". Noded his head up and down with an approval and said he liked it again. I was surprised and he is the same guy that said he wouldnt play white... no way never. Had all white int he bag right now. LOL. He does.
[/quote]
[quote name='TMAG FIREMEDIC' timestamp='1357269900' post='6164507']
Thanks Richard......now send me a lefty one!!!
[/quote]

Your easy. LOL
[/quote]

I think a lefty trip would be outstanding. Golow, Swingie, Swooshie/TMAG, Old Guy, etc.

Let the OEM's stack up their best southpaw offerings and let them duel to the finish, Battle Royale style...

[Lesmond]

Has this been posted? R1 on the TM site:

http://taylormadegolf.com/drivers/R1,en_US,pg.html?bhn_mid=4669005&bhn_rid=2014336398&cid=tm-email-2013-prod-launch

[tp280]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357226923' post='6159859']
[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357226710' post='6159839']
[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357225252' post='6159665']
[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357210115' post='6158797']
Wow, that´s all and what´s new compared with my old R11?

IMO a modified R11.

And the face angle setting is useless, because you have to ground the driver.

And mostly all competitors offer a better stock shaft.

All in all TM has a name in golf, but the R1 is not a technology leader.

2013 Nike and Cobra make the pace in evolution.
[/quote]

I don't wanna quibble, but what exactly has Cobra done? At least Nike has a cavity, which is different.
[/quote]

Well said, Nike has a cavity, which makes the driver more accurate and forgiving.

Nike offers an independent loft and face angle setting and not a compass, you have to ground.

And as mentioned, the KK of the Nike is a real deal quality shaft. TM offers a "made for" crap shaft.

And last but not least, the Nike is cheaper.
[/quote]

YOU CANNOT CHANGE LOFT AND FACE ANGLE INDEPENDENTLY. If TM had claimed that, the same clowns would be complaining about that as well.
[/quote]

The most nausous advertising from the lot to boot; "If you don't have it, you don't have it"! Demo and preorder the new r1 today! I like TM thay need to quit their approach!

[gunmetal]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1357191575' post='6158219']
Taylormade already knows how we feel, the industry is maxed out and I'm not being paid to play a walking billboard, poor form...BB
[/quote]


Very well said. I'm still not sure how they get away with this...

[i][b]"[color=#000000]creating a driver that has faster ball speeds in the middle of the face...' [/color][/b][/i]

Pretty sure the only way to increase ball speeds for a specified swingspeed is to increase CT, which last time I checked was maxed at 257. Would love for the fine folks at TM or other any other design engineer to educate me and explain how they have seemingly skirted the rules enforced by the USGA and R&A. Another interesting antectdote, increasing loft actually decreases ball speed so it's strange that TM is claiming you need to go up in loft with the R1 and this will still achieve higher ball speeds. Kinda getting sick with the more distance every year. The driver stands alone on its' adjustability.

[preshotroutine]

[quote name='gunmetal' timestamp='1357367192' post='6171847']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1357191575' post='6158219']
Taylormade already knows how we feel, the industry is maxed out and I'm not being paid to play a walking billboard, poor form...BB
[/quote]


Very well said. I'm still not sure how they get away with this...

[i][b]"[color=#000000]creating a driver that has faster ball speeds in the middle of the face...' [/color][/b][/i]

Pretty sure the only way to increase ball speeds for a specified swingspeed is to increase CT, which last time I checked was maxed at 257. Would love for the fine folks at TM or other any other design engineer to educate me and explain how they have seemingly skirted the rules enforced by the USGA and R&A. Another interesting antectdote, increasing loft actually decreases ball speed so it's strange that TM is claiming you need to go up in loft with the R1 and this will still achieve higher ball speeds. Kinda getting sick with the more distance every year. The driver stands alone on its' adjustability.
[/quote]

Metal! What is CT Stand for again?

[smackygolf]

[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357323200' post='6167755']
[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357322388' post='6167673']
[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357316902' post='6167125']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1357232057' post='6160549']
[quote name='TMAG FIREMEDIC' timestamp='1357230948' post='6160429']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1357229006' post='6160141']
[quote name='chickenpotpie' timestamp='1357227931' post='6159989']
[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1356657329' post='6126365']
[color=#000000]The R1 is shipped with a standard loft of 10 degrees and face angle that is designed to be "visually square" at address (TaylorMade says a visually square face angle actually measures 2 degrees open). If 1.5 degrees of additional loft is added, the face angle will close 3 degrees. But by wrenching the face angle adapter to the 3-degrees open setting, a golfer can return the face angle to visually square.[/color]
[/quote]

This part intrigues me. What do they define as visually square?
[/quote]A lot to be discussed, some of this is up for serious debate. Why no flat lie angles and what does "visually square" have to do with actual physics. I'm not bashing here just do not understand, it's pretty well know when you push boundaries other things are effected, I'm not sold on one club with such a range of lofts, it's obvious based on my reading that concessions where made so what are they? For a static or "glued in" shaft design concepts such as bulge and roll changed from loft to loft yet this driver manages to play from X to Y with no modifications to the face geometry, I just don't get it sorry. I absolutely promise there are major drawbacks to one size fits all and I for one would like to know they are now versus hearing about them in the R1s marketing campaign when they are already apparent now. Hey I did not open pandora's box TM has by wild marketing spin, call me crazy but I do not hear any "claims" coming from Ping or Titliest, just saying...BB
[/quote]

Do you have same feeling towards Nike or Cobra?I
[/quote]Of course I do! I truly believe that's why Ping was so reluctant to enter the adjustable category. If you analyze there adaptor it has very little actual adjustment and they make it clear this was simply to fine tune a properly fitted club and YES this will effect other angles...BB
[/quote]

From Nike:

The FlexLoft system is a simple pull, turn, and push/tighten mechanism that allows for an intuitive adjustment system. The patented Dual Axis adjustment allows golfers to choose their loft (between 8.5 and 12.5 degrees) and face angle independently of each other by decoupling loft from face angle. This creates 15 different options to suit their game and course condition.

Compared with the R1 and other offerings, you can adjust loft and face angle of the Covert INDEPENDENTLY!!!!
[/quote]

IT DOESN'T DECOUPLE!!! Like I said earlier--you have been sucked in by something you say you hate--a PR release of a product you have not seen, let alone hit.
[/quote]

Come on, Mr. Know it all.

Do you know how the Dual Axis system of Nike works? Do you have ever seen their patent?

Are you a professionial in golf club design?

I think no!!!

The Covert has independent loft and face angle setting and this is confirmed by Nike.

All in all a better solution as TM offers.
[/quote]

Yes. I've seen it. Yes, I've hit it. YES, I'VE BEEN IN THE ROOM WITH THEIR DESIGNERS! Just because you have LITERALLY no idea how any of this works doesn't mean everyone is that ignorant. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[WVP]

Smacky, you're obviously clued in - maybe just explain the tech instead of continuing the pissing match?

[StarFleetGolfer]

I really hope it sounds better. The R11s was unplayable as loud as it was.

[TMBob]

[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1357399188' post='6172705']
I really hope it sounds better. The R11s was unplayable as loud as it was.
[/quote]

For me with range balls, the sound was very close to the same as I was comparing it to the R11s....I also used small rubber o-rings on the weights. Some have reported more muted or like the old R510 TP series, I did not hear this.

[ohcanada17]

The Nike and TM offerings are really the same.... Nike has the second adjustable point for face angle on the hosel/sleeve and TM has it on the sole.

So really what's the difference? Why argue?

With both systems there is a second adjustment to keep the face square or to the desired position...

[TMBob]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1357352575' post='6170747']
I know I would not complain if TM sent me a gift like that! Congrats, guys! Hit'em good! And if you don't like them, I'll be glad to take it off your hands for you
[/quote]

Lets make sure of this....my question was not a complaint, it was a question. I asked CP to confirm my findings and he did. Please notice the plexiglass glass hard shell box, the attached folding logo cover that wrapped around it, and all the foam it was shipped in from the pics he posted. Now that is some serious way to ship a driver head! The box must weight 2 pounds.

First off, getting a brand new driver without a cover (which is a low cost form of advertising) is not the norm let alone one that was sent like it was protecting Fort Knox. I find this different and a head scratcher and I am sure you would have to when you opened the box and looked around for one.

On sending it to you....you never know. I have been know to "share" these things in the past. I love putting new items into as many hands as possible and seeing their faces, getting feedback, and seeing if any improvements can be had.

[TMBob]

Just wanted to post some tid bits on the R1

Head weight was 203 on mine.
Shaft was the Phenom 55 S and the weight of it w/grip was 120....so 323 total grams.
I removed the 10 gram weight and put a 6 into it, so now the head is 199 and a total of 319 grams.

My R11s with a GD Di 6 S is 121 for shaft and grip, 198 for the head with 8-1 weights and 319 grams.

My ST with a PX 6.0 head has 8-1-8 is also right in line with these two shaft weight wise and total weight wise so I have a great base line to work off of when comparing the R1 to these other two set up. Length wise, the ST and R1 were the same, and the R11s was 1/4" shorter. The big issue here is the shaft difference and this could be huge in how I feel about the R1 once some testing takes place as we all know, sometimes a club really wakes up with a certain shaft.

Looking down at the R1 next to my R11s, shape wise I could not see much difference. To me, both of these heads sit super square and more so then any other TM driver for sometime now. Of course, with both of these, one can make the face look closed or open with a simple adjustment so if your eye is use to a certain look, you can achieve this very easily.

On the crown design which is much talked about, here is how I feel about it......
Anyone who has been a TM ho for the past 6-8 years has seen more changes to the driver then anyone else. We, as TM Ho's are use to change, now we might not all like it, but it grows on use to a point were it becomes much more acceptable.

TM has had graphics in the crown since the 2007 Burner with the spider web graphics. Then we dealt with "White" and white with little busy lines going around the crown. Now we have a crown being a blend of lines, angles, letters, numbers and different colors.

My R11s was sent to me with 3 good chips on the crown even though the sellers photo on BST showed none. I hit it, liked it and played it with those chips. (2 were near the hosel and one more near the center of the crown) Did I like seeing those? No DId I notice them all the time? No Did I start to NOT notice them at address? YES!

Do I notice the crown on the new R1? Yes
Does it bother me? No....it is just again something different and something that I would get use to very quickly. Is the R1 my favorite looking driver at address? Not at this point, but it is very close to it. The shape has as much to do with it to me, as what's on the crown.

I sat my Tour SuperQuad down next to the R1 and if one does not see change, then one cannot not see. Looking at a club at address and being concern about the looks is about the MOST overrated concern in the industry "IF" you have been playing a certain OEM for a time period, just because of all the change that has taken place over time. If it would have concerned you, you would have switched OEM's and then deal with the same situation with that OEM....maybe not as much or as bold, but all OEM's have made changes to how a club looks at address...ALL!

I am use to change, I accept change and I can deal with change and I go back to Aluminium shaft days, so I has seen plenty of change in my golfing time.

More to come

[hmx3]

[quote name='ohcanada17' timestamp='1357400347' post='6172763']
The Nike and TM offerings are really the same.... Nike has the second adjustable point for face angle on the hosel/sleeve and TM has it on the sole.

So really what's the difference? Why argue?

With both systems there is a second adjustment to keep the face square or to the desired position...
[/quote]

You have to ground the TM, for many golfers a worthless gimmick.

[ohcanada17]

[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357404861' post='6173055']

You have to ground the TM, for many golfers a worthless gimmick.
[/quote]

lol... how is that no different with any club? If the club is never grounded then the face angle is never what the manufacturer claims it is... so its all a gimmick then?

[smackygolf]

[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357404861' post='6173055']
[quote name='ohcanada17' timestamp='1357400347' post='6172763']
The Nike and TM offerings are really the same.... Nike has the second adjustable point for face angle on the hosel/sleeve and TM has it on the sole.

So really what's the difference? Why argue?

With both systems there is a second adjustment to keep the face square or to the desired position...
[/quote]

You have to ground the TM, for many golfers a worthless gimmick.
[/quote]

Without sounding silly--if you are hovering it, how exactly do you tell what angle you have the face? The whole argument is silly. It is useless tech, and it is 100% marketing hype. There is not a single engineer in the world that will tell you (without using carefully worded statements meant to hide the truth) that you can de-couple loft from face angle. It cannot be done. It HAS not been done. That claim is MUCH worse than the carefully worded "17 yards longer" claim that we all know was nothing but marketing hype. Companies make crazy clams for a reason. People believe them.

[hmx3]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357408448' post='6173277']
[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357404861' post='6173055']
[quote name='ohcanada17' timestamp='1357400347' post='6172763']
The Nike and TM offerings are really the same.... Nike has the second adjustable point for face angle on the hosel/sleeve and TM has it on the sole.

So really what's the difference? Why argue?

With both systems there is a second adjustment to keep the face square or to the desired position...
[/quote]

You have to ground the TM, for many golfers a worthless gimmick.
[/quote]

Without sounding silly--if you are hovering it, how exactly do you tell what angle you have the face? The whole argument is silly. It is useless tech, and it is 100% marketing hype. There is not a single engineer in the world that will tell you (without using carefully worded statements meant to hide the truth) that you can de-couple loft from face angle. It cannot be done. It HAS not been done. That claim is MUCH worse than the carefully worded "17 yards longer" claim that we all know was nothing but marketing hype. Companies make crazy clams for a reason. People believe them.
[/quote]

My standart reply:

Are you a professionel golf club designer?

Are you an engineer?


Do you know the Nike dual axe patent.

NO!!!!

Nike has the patent and allows adjusting loft and face angle independently.

Sorry, but TM R1 is a modified R11.

And as mentioned, I´m a long time TM player, but this year`s R1 is disappointing.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8cy-Gbpk_w[/media]

[Big Ben]

I was told by a mechanical engineer that it can be accomplished through a complicated cam/gear mechanism but wasn't sure about how it would be done in such a small "tube", he wants to look more into it so who knows....BB

[nitram]

I have a short story for those "concerned" about the crown and graphics being distracting and not being able to focus on what you're supposed to.

Back in the summer of '06, I was playing out of a club south of the ATL. It is known to have some really good players and actually 'supplied' a couple of players for the first two or three BIG BREAKs. Anyway, I'm in a member/member tournament with a blind draw to select partners. My partner who was a +2 and a damned fine "money player" was bagging the new 905r. At the time I'd only heard of them let alone seen one.

As we were warming up on the range he asked me if I wanted to hit his new driver. Well of course I did. As he handed it to me the very first thing I noticed was he'd taken a silver, sparkling, vinyl decal of a sitting stripper and applied her to the head of this driver. Her straightened leg and high-heel went to the edge of the crown, almost to the face and was the alignment aid. To say you didn't notice this would be an understated, bald face lie. But when I went to hit the very first ball and each one thereafter, I can honestly say I NEVER noticed her. And I think anyone who focuses on the ball or any part thereof wouldn't either.

I was fortunate enough to hit the R1 last month and I really liked it. And just like the stripper in the 905r, when it came time to hit the ball, I didn't notice anything, at all.

[ksavy17]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1357408448' post='6173277']
[quote name='hmx3' timestamp='1357404861' post='6173055']
[quote name='ohcanada17' timestamp='1357400347' post='6172763']
The Nike and TM offerings are really the same.... Nike has the second adjustable point for face angle on the hosel/sleeve and TM has it on the sole.

So really what's the difference? Why argue?

With both systems there is a second adjustment to keep the face square or to the desired position...
[/quote]

You have to ground the TM, for many golfers a worthless gimmick.
[/quote]

Without sounding silly--if you are hovering it, how exactly do you tell what angle you have the face? The whole argument is silly. It is useless tech, and it is 100% marketing hype. There is not a single engineer in the world that will tell you (without using carefully worded statements meant to hide the truth) that you can de-couple loft from face angle. It cannot be done. It HAS not been done. That claim is MUCH worse than the carefully worded "17 yards longer" claim that we all know was nothing but marketing hype. Companies make crazy clams for a reason. People believe them.
[/quote]

Interested in this. I for one believe nikes claims and because of that , the covert has more of my interest

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1357411923' post='6173507']
I was told by a mechanical engineer that it can be accomplished through a complicated cam/gear mechanism but wasn't sure about how it would be done in such a small "tube", he wants to look more into it so who knows....BB
[/quote]


I'm sure it could be done, just the package may be too big and might require a very unique shaft. It may be a few years away but someone will figure it out.

[Big Ben]

Right which wouldn't be very cost effective and very difficult to maintain a true 1:1 ratio. What Nike, Taylormade and Titliest for that matter have is a hybrid system which absolutely Does not purely de-couple lie/loft sorry. Whether that means a hill of crap for a golf club is any bodies guess just stating facts...BB

[Str8Shot]

These look a lot more orange vs the red color tint in the pictures...has anyone else noticed that if they have seen them in person vs pics??