Chamblee/Tiger Woods controversy (merged)

[Sean2]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382137055' post='8023733']

Sean is an awesome guy and I respect how he feels on this.

I, otoh, worship satan and all I care about is seeing some skills ; )

But really. TW is an outstanding athlete. It is a shame if even those who do not like him can't learn something from his commitment to being the best at what he does.
[/quote]

Thanks Bscinstnct! I don't dislike TW and I don't like to see hate heaped on him either. It's okay for folks to disagree, no matter the topic. I'd just like to see it done without all the base emotions involved. :-)

[redfirebird08]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1382137814' post='8023799']

I think TGC welcomes this publicity.
[/quote]

I believe so. That's all they care about. Basically a wannabe ESPN.

[bscinstnct]

Brandl must be getting some interesting phone calls. Who owns GC, anyway?

Wonder if he has the

Yellow Pages (remember those?!) out.

Let's see....

Lanterns, Lasers, ahhh, here it is, Lawyers.

[Sunningdale]

[quote name='MikeNa' timestamp='1382133227' post='8023413']
I don't think Tiger needs people to defend him on forums. I think he knows when it comes down to it, he's the best golfer in the world.

Let these people say what they want about him so they can get back to their average lives that consist of nothing worthwhile except trying to break 80 in their weekend dollar skins game...LOL
[/quote]
1) He certainly knows that he once was the best golfer in the world. Whether he currently is the best golfer in the world is likely a matter of constant internal debate. I hope that he believes that he can again become the best golfer in the world, he's certainly working hard enough to suggest so.
2) Your notion of people's motives re: Tiger is quite absurd and put you firmly in a certain camp to anyone remotely objective about the matter. Unless you were being facetious of course ....

[Sunningdale]

[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382137790' post='8023793']


I think the funniest part of "Steiny's" rant is when he says that TW had "no intention to deceive anyone"...his entire adult life has been meant to do that!
[/quote]
Yes that was very amusing. The guy is a complete a**, as well as being a weazel of the first order. But heck he makes a ton of money and this is America .....

[ctmason_98]

My father-in-law met Steinberg once at NBGC probably about 3 years ago now. I don't think Steinberg was playing but was there visiting someone or talking with someone. They exchanged pleasantries and talked a bit with a mutual acquaintence who was battling prostate cancer at the time. I told my FIL I thought that was really neat and the only thing he mentioned to me was something along the lines of, "Nice man, I didn't ask him why he was wearing a Cleveland Golf hat but I should've...."

Okay sorry, back to complaining about a pro golfer that has no impact on our lives.

[bscinstnct]

I am reminded of the saying,

Give someone enough rope

To hang themselves.

I wonder if TW has been waiting for this. Biding his time

Sitting with umpteen million dollars ready to throw

Down.

I speculate

Beandl is gone lest he prints a full apology.

[Brock Savage]

[quote name='Sunningdale' timestamp='1382139033' post='8023875']
1) He certainly knows that he once was the best golfer in the world. Whether he currently is the best golfer in the world is likely a matter of constant internal debate. I hope that he believes that he can again become the best golfer in the world, he's certainly working hard enough to suggest so.
2) Your notion of people's motives re: Tiger is quite absurd and put you firmly in a certain camp to anyone remotely objective about the matter. Unless you were being facetious of course ....
[/quote]

LOL. Nice to see someone so objective that he's willing to admit that there's a chance, however small, that Tiger might one day become the best golfer in the world.

[deasy55]

Did Brandel Chamblee drown a bunch of poster's puppies or what?

[kemau]

[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382137790' post='8023793']


I think the funniest part of "Steiny's" rant is when he says that TW had "no intention to deceive anyone"...his entire adult life has been meant to do that!
[/quote]

great application of context

[DRRicks]

[quote name='kemau' timestamp='1382139969' post='8023977']
[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382137790' post='8023793']
[quote name='Playaway' timestamp='1382137497' post='8023767']
[quote name='lsugolf1105' timestamp='1382135174' post='8023565']
Steinberg threatens lawsuit

[url="http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/9845410/tiger-woods-agent-threatens-lawsuit-analyst-brandel-chamblee"]http://espn.go.com/g...randel-chamblee[/url]

[color=#333333][b]Brandel Chamblee's comments are shameful, baseless and completely out of line. In his rulings, Tiger voiced his position, accepted his penalty and moved on. There was no intention to deceive anyone. Chamblee's uninformed and malicious opinions, passed on as facts, and his desperate attempt to garner attention, is deplorable.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

"Steiny" might be better served planning a way to salvage his man's record lest they find a rules "faux-pas" in one or more of Tiger's previous majors.

That would be disastrous for golf.

Who would have thunk it? How many asterisks are there in those 14? Hopefully none!

The last thing we need now is for Stevie (aka "The Big Ape") to come forward with some damning info.

Oh, and have an A-1 day!
[/quote]

I think the funniest part of "Steiny's" rant is when he says that TW had "no intention to deceive anyone"...his entire adult life has been meant to do that!
[/quote]

great application of context
[/quote]

Thank you.

[DRRicks]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382139692' post='8023941']
I am reminded of the saying,

Give someone enough rope

To hang themselves.

I wonder if TW has been waiting for this. Biding his time

Sitting with umpteen million dollars ready to throw

Down.

I speculate

Beandl is gone lest he prints a full apology.
[/quote]

With TW's reputation as a notorious cheapskate, I don't think he's planning on throwing millions of dollars at anything...except Elin...and strippers.

[hogans71]

[quote name='redfirebird08' timestamp='1382137995' post='8023817']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1382137814' post='8023799']

I think TGC welcomes this publicity.
[/quote]

I believe so. That's all they care about. Basically a wannabe ESPN.
[/quote]

Completely agree...

They'll have that many more viewers tuning in to see what horrors BC spews forth next...

[QMany]

[attachment=1917405:image.jpg]

[braincramp52]

I didn't read all the posts here but I think Paul Azinger put BC's article in perspective. He said, Brandel is paid to give his opinion and whether you agree with his opinion or not basically doesn't matter. He's doing what he's paid to do and he does it well.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382140116' post='8023991']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382139692' post='8023941']
I am reminded of the saying,

Give someone enough rope

To hang themselves.

I wonder if TW has been waiting for this. Biding his time

Sitting with umpteen million dollars ready to throw

Down.

I speculate

Beandl is gone lest he prints a full apology.
[/quote]

With TW's reputation as a notorious cheapskate, I don't think he's planning on throwing millions of dollars at anything...except Elin...and strippers.
[/quote]

Well played ; )

[deasy55]

Mark Steinburg "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen"

Even more deplorable than you endangering lives with your DWI, Steiny?

Funny guy

[hogans71]

Do you think Mark Steinberg had a straight face when he followed up, "this is the most deplorable thing I've seen" with "I'm not one for hyperbole"?

[DRRicks]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1382140524' post='8024007']
[attachment=1917405:image.jpg]
[/quote]

From Golf.com...

[size=6][i]*Tiger’s rule controversies in 2013 included [url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-miss-cut-abu-dhabi-championship-2013"]taking an illegal free drop at the Abu Dhabi Championship[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/ap-news/tiger-woods-gets-reprieve-masters"]avoiding disqualification at the Masters despite signing an incorrect scorecard following an illegal drop[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/photos/johnny-millers-greatest-his/tiger-woods-2013-players"]giving himself a favorable drop after hitting into a water hazard at the Players Championship[/url], and [url="http://blogs.golf.com/presstent/2013/09/video-tiger-slapped-with-2-shot-penalty-for-shifting-golf-ball-while-removing-a-twig.html"]a two-stroke penalty for causing his ball to move while removing a twig resting against it at the BMW Championship[/url][/i][/size]

[size=6][i][size=4]That's a lifetime of rules "infractions" for the average Tour pro... and those are only the ones that we saw!!![/size][/i][/size]

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1382141047' post='8024053']
Mark Steinburg "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen"

Even more deplorable than you endangering lives with your DWI, Steiny?

Funny guy
[/quote]

Uh oh. Here comes deasy (Happy Friday!)

To bring the pain.

[deasy55]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382141180' post='8024067']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1382141047' post='8024053']
Mark Steinburg "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen"

Even more deplorable than you endangering lives with your DWI, Steiny?

Funny guy
[/quote]

Uh oh. Here comes deasy (Happy Friday!)

To bring the pain.
[/quote]

And here comes bscinstnct

To bring ????

[redfirebird08]

[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382141179' post='8024065']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1382140524' post='8024007']
[attachment=1917405:image.jpg]
[/quote]

From Golf.com...

[size=6][i]*Tiger’s rule controversies in 2013 included [url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-miss-cut-abu-dhabi-championship-2013"]taking an illegal free drop at the Abu Dhabi Championship[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/ap-news/tiger-woods-gets-reprieve-masters"]avoiding disqualification at the Masters despite signing an incorrect scorecard following an illegal drop[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/photos/johnny-millers-greatest-his/tiger-woods-2013-players"]giving himself a favorable drop after hitting into a water hazard at the Players Championship[/url], and [url="http://blogs.golf.com/presstent/2013/09/video-tiger-slapped-with-2-shot-penalty-for-shifting-golf-ball-while-removing-a-twig.html"]a two-stroke penalty for causing his ball to move while removing a twig resting against it at the BMW Championship[/url][/i][/size]

[size=6][i][size=4]That's a lifetime of rules "infractions" for the average Tour pro... and those are only the ones that we saw!!![/size][/i][/size]
[/quote]

Every shot the guy hits is followed by people with TV cameras, whether it's for the broadcast networks or PGATour.com. Pretty sure people would have noticed if there were any other issues.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1382141392' post='8024083']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382141180' post='8024067']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1382141047' post='8024053']
Mark Steinburg "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen"

Even more deplorable than you endangering lives with your DWI, Steiny?

Funny guy
[/quote]

Uh oh. Here comes deasy (Happy Friday!)

To bring the pain.
[/quote]

And here comes bscinstnct

To bring ????
[/quote]

Food coma (beef stew) and moderately imbibed yet insightful commentary?

[Sean2]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382141121' post='8024061']
Do you think Mark Steinberg had a straight face when he followed up, "this is the most deplorable thing I've seen" with "I'm not one for hyperbole"?
[/quote]

Look at the world around you Mr. Steinberg, there are many things that are much more deplorable. That said, let it lie. The press will have a field day with it.

[kemau]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1382141047' post='8024053']
Mark Steinburg "This is the most deplorable thing I have seen"

Even more deplorable than you endangering lives with your DWI, Steiny?

Funny guy
[/quote]

safely in your world of anonymity.....good stuff

[Sunningdale]

[quote name='Brock Savage' timestamp='1382139799' post='8023951']
[quote name='Sunningdale' timestamp='1382139033' post='8023875']
1) He certainly knows that he once was the best golfer in the world. Whether he currently is the best golfer in the world is likely a matter of constant internal debate. I hope that he believes that he can again become the best golfer in the world, he's certainly working hard enough to suggest so.
2) Your notion of people's motives re: Tiger is quite absurd and put you firmly in a certain camp to anyone remotely objective about the matter. Unless you were being facetious of course ....
[/quote]

LOL. Nice to see someone so objective that he's willing to admit that there's a chance, however small, that Tiger might one day become the best golfer in the world.
[/quote]
Well thanks, I think

For the record, and defining "best in the world" as being the best player AT THIS TIME (i.e. on currently form ), I'm not clear as to who IS the best player. Tiger surely was, for a long time, and IMO is not far from regaining the title. He's come a long way from the nadir - his recent record shows that - but it must be difficult for him that he is not exactly where he was. I actually think he's showing a lot of maturity in the way he's handling the frustrations he must be feeling.

The title of being the best player EVER is rather meaningless IMO - different generations cannot be meaningfully compared. Just mo.

[Brock Savage]

[quote name='DRRicks' timestamp='1382141179' post='8024065']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1382140524' post='8024007']
[attachment=1917405:image.jpg]
[/quote]

From Golf.com...

[size=6][i]*Tiger’s rule controversies in 2013 included [url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/tiger-woods-rory-mcilroy-miss-cut-abu-dhabi-championship-2013"]taking an illegal free drop at the Abu Dhabi Championship[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/ap-news/tiger-woods-gets-reprieve-masters"]avoiding disqualification at the Masters despite signing an incorrect scorecard following an illegal drop[/url], [url="http://www.golf.com/photos/johnny-millers-greatest-his/tiger-woods-2013-players"]giving himself a favorable drop after hitting into a water hazard at the Players Championship[/url], and [url="http://blogs.golf.com/presstent/2013/09/video-tiger-slapped-with-2-shot-penalty-for-shifting-golf-ball-while-removing-a-twig.html"]a two-stroke penalty for causing his ball to move while removing a twig resting against it at the BMW Championship[/url][/i][/size]

[size=6][i][size=4]That's a lifetime of rules "infractions" for the average Tour pro... and those are only the ones that we saw!!![/size][/i][/size]
[/quote]

Are there any stats for that? IMO only the BMW incident was even questionable --- he consulted his playing partners before dropping at Abu Dhabi and the Players, and blew the whistle on himself at the Masters --- nobody even looked at it until his press conference, where he said he moved back a yard or two.

One questionable incident (as opposed to BS like the boulder, which just shows the fans' ignorance of the rules) in 18 years sounds low to me, even for guys who aren't on camera every shot they hit.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1382130326' post='8023183']

Ok, let me get this straight. If someone, anyone, in golf takes an incorrect drop, or brushes a dead leaf in a hazard, or touches the green without realizing it, then they are a cheater whether or not they get penalized?

Carl Peterson didn't call a penalty on himself, but he received a two shot penalty because he broke a rule. Is he a cheater? Craig Stadler broke a rule and received a penalty. Is he a cheater? Villegas broke a rule and received a penalty. Is he cheating? Is every person who ever took an incorrect drop a cheater if they didn't knowingly break a rule? I'm sure I've taken a drop where it was a foot and a half off. It doesn't make me a cheater. And if I move a branch and my ball moves slightly after but I don't see it until I review it in slow motion on my HD camera, that doesn't make me a cheater.

And yes, you are correct about football vs. golf. In golf we have to self police due to the nature of the game. But I think you're missing the point. In any sport, if someone is penalized for an infraction, that doesn't mean they cheated.

And no I don't think its a stretch to compare him to other golfers when it comes to the rules. I think it proves the point that Chamblee and others have more of an issue with Tiger than the actual rule issues. If you and Chamblee really cared about the rules, then you would be calling the others golfers who had similar issues "cheaters." But you don't.
[/quote]

You haven't got this straight.... If someone uses the word "cheater" its their view, and likely based off their perception of some evidence, and its tied to underlying values. Its not something you or anyone else can hope to change. Reason the thread on "rolling the ball" goes on. This is NOT about me and Chamblee either; I don't even care much for the guy.

You obviously don't question TW's actions. I do, and that comes about as a result of my core understanding of right vs. wrong, understanding the grey area of the game, and its rules. Have a good wkend.

[Brock Savage]

[quote name='Sunningdale' timestamp='1382141782' post='8024127']

Well thanks, I think

For the record, and defining "best in the world" as being the best player AT THIS TIME (i.e. on currently form ), I'm not clear as to who IS the best player. Tiger surely was, for a long time, and IMO is not far from regaining the title. He's come a long way from the nadir - his recent record shows that - but it must be difficult for him that he is not exactly where he was. I actually think he's showing a lot of maturity in the way he's handling the frustrations he must be feeling.

The title of being the best player EVER is rather meaningless IMO - different generations cannot be meaningfully compared. Just mo.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification, because I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you might actually mean best player ever. But now that you clearly state that you mean best player NOW, I can say without hesitation that you are utterly wrong, and your claim to objectivity is laughable.

Five wins, Vardon Trophy, money title, and he put on a fairway wood and long iron clinic at the President's Cup.

Oh yeah, and he's POTY by both the points system and the player vote. And he's number one in the world, by almost four points. For comparison, that is about the same margin that separates Hunter Mahan from me. And that ranking is not inflated by his old results, because he wasn't even in the top 50 two years ago.

Who is better?

Or do you mean the best player right this second? That's a hell of a lot more meaningless than best ever. Is it whoever shot the lowest score today?

[xabia]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1382135857' post='8023633']


Mike, I think it's fine to disagree with Brandel and his take on TW. What I find disturbing is the spew of vitriol being heaped upon him. It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's another to pile on so much hatred. I find it a bit bizarre.
[/quote]

Uhhh but the intense loathing of tw for his personal life by a rather intense continent on this board is justifiable?