How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

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  • evoviiiyouevoviiiyou evoviiiyou Members Posts: 1,988 ✭✭
    Great video and very enlightening. One question I have is doesn't an adjustable sole plate allow for all 3 variables to be met with one static loft and adjustable hosel device?

    Mizuno ST190 10.5/ Fuji Speeder TR 661S/ PURE Wrap BLK
    Mizuno ST190TS 15/ Fuji Speeder TR 757S/ PURE Wrap BLK
    Mizuno JPX FliHi 19/ Modus 130S/ PURE Wrap WHT
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    Mizuno S18 Wedges 50&56/ Modus 120S/ PURE Wrap BLK
    SeeMore M1B 31" CS/ Conti Golf Satin Black Shaft/ SS Slim 3.0 CC

  • andyk856andyk856 Members Posts: 162 ✭✭
    every time i adjust my driver to any setting besides square it just goes all over the place.
    Taylormade M6 / Tensei Orange 60 TX shaft
    Titleist 917F2 / Fujikura Pro XLR8 71 TS shaft
    Titleist 718 CB / Project X LZ 6.5
    Titleist 712U 2 Iron / X 95 Graphite Design Tour AD UT
    Titleist SM6 52 wedge
    Titleist SM6 56 wedge
    Titleist SM6 60 wedge
    Taylormade Spider Black on black
  • BY#99BY#99 Members Posts: 321 ✭✭
    Maybe I am different but I think sometimes things are to technical. All I know is my driver is adjustable and it does allow me to move the ball left and right based on my adjustments. I do also notice a difference in ballflight in the loft. The Nike adapter is one I like because I can open/close separate from loft. I know the concerns of this not being possible but I can SEE the results to be true when on the course. I do not get caught up in what the technical "experts" say because I trust my eyes out on the course to tell me what is happening.
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,927 ✭✭
    Yes. Many people over think these things. The results are the only thing that really matters. The 'why' can potentially help us with fitting and future purchases/adjustments so can be important in a different context, but the bottom line will always be the results.



    As far as the Nike's 'face angle adjustment' goes and being independent of loft - it depends. It basically rotates the shaft and changes how the grip markings align with the head. So technically it doesn't really change the face angle of the head but it can potentially change the face orientation at address (not exactly the same thing) so it certainly can influence the results for some.
  • tomjohnsontomjohnson Members Posts: 5
    I'm glad this video was made, lots of great points! The differentiation of what adjustable hosels are thought to do and can actually do is very important. I think custom fitting is the better answer, and the adjustable hosel makes this more difficult because the proper specs are absent like Tom said.
  • sbboudreausbboudreau FORE RIGHT! Members Posts: 733
    So informative. Thanks for posting this video.
    (8) "Wee" Scot Putters, Model 1W, 4W, 5W, P15, P170, 180, Balata Face Insert(x2)
    1926 MacGregor MASTER Hickory Driver, Ivory SCRULOC Face Inserts
    Early Hickory Peter McEwan of Nairn, Putting Cleek Rustless
    79/80 Titleist Tour Model Woods(D,3,4,5) & Irons(2-PW) Matching Serial #'s
    Titleist Tour Model Flange Putter (2, 34" & 35")
    98 PING ISI Nickel Irons Red(2-PW), (HELP! missing 5 & 7)
    Go To Set
    07 PING G-10 Irons, Yellow, (3 & 4 Hy, 5-SW)
    2013 Callaway X2 HOT 10.5 Driver
    2013 Callaway X2 HOT Pro 3 Deep 14.5 Fairway
    2013 Callaway X2 HOT Pro 5 Deep 18.5 Fairway
  • Ure1978Ure1978 Members Posts: 189 ✭✭
    Great info !! Thank you
  • jrwingate6jrwingate6 Members Posts: 558
    I haven't really hit a **** in shaft driver that I liked yet. For some reason, I just feel like I get more feel out of a fixed shaft.



    Maybe it's in my head.
  • gsrjcgsrjc TOC Members Posts: 1,259 ✭✭
    So basically, whatever changes are made to the hosel, I need to always remember to sole the club where the face is square.
  • RocksRocks Members Posts: 87 ✭✭
    Interesting and informative video. I always wondered why the persimmon drivers had such a big neck. I like the ability to switch out the shafts more than playing around with the adjustment hosel.
  • joshmb1999joshmb1999 Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    great video!
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭
    joshmb1999 wrote:


    great video!






    Was it? Or were you just working on your post count?
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • Peanut191Peanut191 Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭
    Golfrnut wrote:

    joshmb1999 wrote:


    great video!






    Was it? Or were you just working on your post count?




    Since 2008?
    M2 10.5, set to 9.75, D5, KK XT 70s
    M2 Tour 16.5, Diamana Thump 85s
    Titleist 913 21* Kiyoshi White 95 04 flex
    Srixon 745 4-PW, Dynamic Gold 115s
    Callaway Razr Forged GW 51
    Vokey 56F 14 bounce, Vokey 60M
    Scotty Newport 1.5
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭
    Peanut191 wrote:

    Golfrnut wrote:

    joshmb1999 wrote:


    great video!






    Was it? Or were you just working on your post count?




    Since 2008?




    Ironic that 20 of those 76 post came in about a day. You see a lot of the quick posts when people are trying to get above that 75 post threshold to sell on the BST. Ironically, most people's post count stops just above that number too.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • Peanut191Peanut191 Members Posts: 1,862 ✭✭
    Golfrnut wrote:

    Peanut191 wrote:

    Golfrnut wrote:

    joshmb1999 wrote:


    great video!






    Was it? Or were you just working on your post count?




    Since 2008?




    Ironic that 20 of those 76 post came in about a day. You see a lot of the quick posts when people are trying to get above that 75 post threshold to sell on the BST. Ironically, most people's post count stops just above that number too.




    Ah, ok. 76 posts on almost 10 years, but 20 of them on one day. Makes sense now.
    M2 10.5, set to 9.75, D5, KK XT 70s
    M2 Tour 16.5, Diamana Thump 85s
    Titleist 913 21* Kiyoshi White 95 04 flex
    Srixon 745 4-PW, Dynamic Gold 115s
    Callaway Razr Forged GW 51
    Vokey 56F 14 bounce, Vokey 60M
    Scotty Newport 1.5
  • CliffordClifford Members Posts: 146 ✭✭
    I only like the adjustable hosel because I can switch shafts easily. Thats it.

    I buy the clubhead at my preferred loft and leave the hosel at standard. I have tried to mess around with the loft and lie but its never as good as the standard setting so I just leave it at standard.

    Great video
  • ConcentricDimplesConcentricDimples Members Posts: 739
    So if I adjust my driver 2 degrees up in loft, but I set the Club on the ground at address, the driver face is really just closed 2 degrees?



    In various planes of adjustment, it would seem possible to adjust face angle without adjusting loft, no? (I realize this may or may not be an option on any given adapter system).



    Is it true that for physics/engineering reasons (energy transfer, torsional rigidity of connection, etc), the Club plays the best at neutral setting?
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,927 ✭✭


    So if I adjust my driver 2 degrees up in loft, but I set the Club on the ground at address, the driver face is really just closed 2 degrees?



    In various planes of adjustment, it would seem possible to adjust face angle without adjusting loft, no? (I realize this may or may not be an option on any given adapter system).




    "Face angle" can be a confusing term, it's often used in different and conflicting contexts. When we are talking about the specification of the head, face angle" is like loft - it's a design specification of the head that is measured in a very specific way and really is not dependent on how you (or anyone) sets up to the ball at address. You can rotate the club all you want at address to point in any direction, but that doesn't really change the face angle spec of the head. So no, you cant' really adjust the face angle independent of the effective loft (only the head designer can do that).



    And if you adjust the effective loft +2*, then the face angle changes by about 3.8* more closed then it was before the adjustment.






    Is it true that for physics/engineering reasons (energy transfer, torsional rigidity of connection, etc), the Club plays the best at neutral setting?




    No. All that matters to impact is the dynamic loft you deliver at impact and the how the face is oriented relative to the club path (and you are able to hit the ball in the center of the face). There are numerous ways to get to the name impact conditions with widely different starting static specs of the club. Given a particular individuals swing, some settings might be more conductive to get the desired results then other settings - but that's about it. "neutral" is just an arbitrary center point for the range of adjustability.
  • Big BenBig Ben Members Posts: 8,936 ✭✭
    This is fantastic Tom as a decent stick this truly explains a lot to me. Based on my experiences it makes total sense....BB
    Irons: 19' Cobra CB's
    Drivers: Titleist TS3 & Cobra F9
    Fairway: Titleist 917F2
    Hybrid: A-Grind
    2 iron: Ping Rapture
    Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's
    Putter: Evnroll 9.1
    Balls: ProV1
  • Rdarling18Rdarling18 Members Posts: 109
    Thank you for this information it is good knowledge to understand.
    Current Bag
    Driver Taylormade 2017 M1 460 Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 60TX
    3 wood 2017 M1 Mitsubishi B series 70 XS
    3 iron Taylormade UDI KBS $taper S+
    4-pw Taylormade PSI Tour KBS C-Taper S 120
    Wedges Taylormade MG 52,56,60 KBS 610
    Putter Itsy Bitsy Spider Limited
  • jdang307jdang307 Members Posts: 169 ✭✭
    Just want to be clear. I have a 2016 M2 driver. It's a 10.5. I'm a beginner and I hit the ball pretty straight most of the time. No draw, no slice. When I miss, it is a slight slice. So I want to keep the clubface square to keep at it.



    I also want to try my driver at 12.5. Three options are to go buy a spare club head ($$$), go try a completely different club at 12.5, or adjust my driver. When I went to investigate adjusting the M2, talk of closing the head, opening the head etc, scared me off.



    But what Tom Wishon is saying, is, if I adjust it to 12.5, and ignore the marking on my grip and square the club face before taking my grip, my face will be square again, and then I'll have the loft? And for **** and giggles, if I leave the club as it lay, it'll be 10.5 still, but a closed face?



    That's exactly what I want, so if that is true, that is good news.



    Of course the lie angle will be higher, and as a shorter golfer playing too long of a driver shaft, that may be a problem. But it's worth experimenting.
  • daryllwindaryllwin Members Posts: 107
    Actually What is stopping club manufacturers from having that little piece of softer material on the hosel? That way you could still bend it, but then let people play with the face angle and all that.
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2016 Taylormade M2, Kuro Kage 60 X[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]PRGR TRX-505 3 and 5 wood with stock shafts[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Miura Small Blades, 3-PW, Dynamic Gold X100[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]54/10 SM5, 56 Perry Gear, 60/04 SM4[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Scotty Cameron Circa 62 No.3[/font]
  • Wow that video was extremely illuminating. I have always bought my clubs used and never had a fitting, but I'm definitely planning on getting a fitting before my next set purchase
  • sandysandy ClubWRX Posts: 4,996
    edited Sep 13, 2017 #385
    A good explanation of why virtually every photo shown of pros WITB the hosel is most always in the standard setting A1, S N, O for Titleist, Callaway, Ping. Ping with their minimal adjustability from the beginning would seem know this but had to have something to compete..



    Another example why so many premium Japanese drivers are glued period..
  • 17Platinum17Platinum Members Posts: 14
    Farrow wrote:


    So in the first portion of this video Tom clearly shows us that specs were measured one way with "wood" woods, and that there was a shift to a new method once metal woods hit the scene. So why does one jump in technology deserve a redefinition of spec measurements, but the newest jump does not? Was the "wood" woods method not used for "decades and decades" as Tom so clearly points out about the "green machine"? Sometimes the way things were done in the past becomes antiquated and there is a need for a new process. It seems to me that this video is more of a marketing video for his own product than a purely educational piece.



    And his statements about adjustable drivers muddling up the fitting process are totally absurd. With a trained fitter these adjustable clubs can make fittings much simpler and faster. The trial and error method is only for people who grab a club off the rack and take it to the range on their own without any knowledge of club fitting. If a club fitter is worth his beans at all, he can fit using the new technology with no problem. If anything, the new tech gives fitters more options. Say someone wants to be fit for an SLDR (I have no loyalty or interest in TaylorMade, it's just an example), the fitter can choose from 9.5°, 10.5°, 12°, and 14° lofts. They also have the ability to change settings on the fly. Say the "lower" setting on the adapter seems to give you the best shot shape, but the 9.5° head launches slightly too low, the fitter can easily swap it out for a 10.5° head on the same setting. And where the fitter comes in is being able to take the guess work out of it and start with a setting that will most likely fit the golfer and fine tune from there. This is the same as has been done for years in the past with "traditional" clubs. It's just that now all the fitter needs to adjust the club to your specs is a wrench instead of a specialized clamp that most shops would never have to begin with.



    Lastly, no golfer brings the club head into impact with the exact same setup that they had at address. The golf swing is dynamic and therefore the dynamic loft is much more important than static loft. Of course from a fitting stand point you have to start with the correct static loft to get the correct dynamic loft, but just because a golfer lets the club sole on the ground before a shot does not by any means indicate that's the same orientation the club will be in when it meets the ball. Therefore, perhaps a redefined method for measuring loft was needed all along. Just because a certain method has been used for years and years does not mean it's the best way or the correct way. If the world ran on that logic we'd all still be living in caves wearing animal skin leotards.






    I think I need Tom to include pictures, if he agrees..

    'cause i'm confused a heap!
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,166 ✭✭
    Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?






    Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square. Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle. It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • LondonerLondoner Members Posts: 1,166 ✭✭
    edited Oct 17, 2017 #389
    Golfrnut wrote:

    Londoner wrote:


    Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?






    Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square. Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle. It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.




    Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge?

    Assuming after this closed/open face starts them on the right line they return the face square to the ball. The face loft contribution to the overall dynamic loft is as the maker and hosel states. Sorry i dont see the big issue. If the fairways are running i knock my loft down & face opens. I adjust. If its wet i crank loft up and faces closes. I adjust.
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members Posts: 7,109 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:
    Golfrnut wrote:
    Londoner wrote:
    Why would anyone spending £350 + on a driver need telling that holding the clubface square was a good idea?
    Because for some golfers it's not a good idea to hold the face square. Some need offset face angles to improve starting direction and shot shape, whether that means an open or closed face angle. It's also a lot harder for some to repetitively "eyeball" a face to square to target and soling the club provides an easier option to maintain consistency.
    Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge? Assuming after this closed/open face starts them on the right line they return the face square to the ball. The face loft contribution to the overall dynamic loft is as the maker and hosel states. Sorry i dont see the big issue. If the fairways are running i knock my loft down & face opens. I adjust. If its wet i crank loft up and faces closes. I adjust.




    Works for some, doesn't work for others. Not a big deal, just has to be taken into account.
    TM Supertri V2 w/ AD DI (Testing a new one that's on probation)
    Callaway 3Deep w/ 73 BB or Stage 2 3W w/ 73 BB
    Stage 2 3H w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway Apex UT 21* w/ i80 Steelfiber
    Callaway X Prototype MBs 4-PW w/ Steelfiber AMI 99s
    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind (both X100 8 iron SS)
    Odyssey MXM 1W
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,927 ✭✭
    Londoner wrote:


    Really? People cant see if a 460 driver face is square? What do they do with a wedge?




    Forget the wedges, numerous studies have shown that most average golfers can't really see if their putter is square and pointed in the right direction.
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