USGA and Lucy Li (MERGED)

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  • BertGABertGA Posts: 270 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 11:04am #62
    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.
  • TMfan54TMfan54 Members Posts: 2,244 ✭✭
    The lines are blurred. (This coming from a Cowboys fan) How is Tony Romo an amateur? He does commercials for Sketchers golf shoes, is a professional athlete with endorsement deals, but is an amateur? Same would go for John Smoltz I guess.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    USGA made the right call. Have no idea how anyone can say they didn't. USGA are a bunch of morons that get it wrong most of the time. This time they did the right thing.
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,233 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    I never heard of her. And I bet about 90% of golfers never had either. Who follows junior golf beside college coaches and their parents?
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,233 ✭✭
    TMfan54 wrote:


    The lines are blurred. (This coming from a Cowboys fan) How is Tony Romo an amateur? He does commercials for Sketchers golf shoes, is a professional athlete with endorsement deals, but is an amateur? Same would go for John Smoltz I guess.




    I agree. The USGA should be sending him a letter.



    If all he advertised were their casual shoes would be one thing, but his golf commercials is over the line.



    But these days the difference in the level of play from a tour pro and everyone else is so different, it should be if your not on a professional tour, then your an amateur. And yes, I would even include club pros in that.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 11:27am #67
    BrianMcG wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    I never heard of her. And I bet about 90% of golfers never had either. Who follows junior golf beside college coaches and their parents?




    Exactly. Lucy Li isn't a household name. Hank Haney show last week they went to a public course and interviewed people. Not one had ever heard of Lucy Li when they asked them "Have you ever heard of Lucy Li?". NOT ONE!!!
  • farmerfarmer Members Posts: 7,781 ✭✭
    Tony Romo is no longer a professional athlete. He retired.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    farmer wrote:


    Tony Romo is no longer a professional athlete. He retired.




    He is getting paid in a golf commercial because of his Name. That is against the USGA rules for amateur status.
  • BertGABertGA Posts: 270 ✭✭
    BrianMcG wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    I never heard of her. And I bet about 90% of golfers never had either. Who follows junior golf beside college coaches and their parents?




    Guess I should have clarified for those that follow junior golf.



    So her visibility increased, yes. From people that never cared about junior golf before, and won’t care about it tomorrow.



    Still trying to see how she benefits from the exposure. She can’t cash in for a couple more years. That is a millennium in viral internet stardom.
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,233 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    BrianMcG wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    I never heard of her. And I bet about 90% of golfers never had either. Who follows junior golf beside college coaches and their parents?




    Guess I should have clarified for those that follow junior golf.



    So her visibility increased, yes. From people that never cared about junior golf before, and won’t care about it tomorrow.



    Still trying to see how she benefits from the exposure. She can’t cash in for a couple more years. That is a millennium in viral internet stardom.




    But she doesn't have to benefit to lose her status. If Apple benefited, she's no longer an am. No money needs to change hands.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • BertGABertGA Posts: 270 ✭✭
    BrianMcG wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    BrianMcG wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    I never heard of her. And I bet about 90% of golfers never had either. Who follows junior golf beside college coaches and their parents?




    Guess I should have clarified for those that follow junior golf.



    So her visibility increased, yes. From people that never cared about junior golf before, and won’t care about it tomorrow.



    Still trying to see how she benefits from the exposure. She can’t cash in for a couple more years. That is a millennium in viral internet stardom.




    But she doesn't have to benefit to lose her status. If Apple benefited, she's no longer an am. No money needs to change hands.




    I’m not arguing about the USGAs ruling. We’ve spent enough time in the thread doing this.



    The comment I replied to claimed the benefits to the Li family. I am trying to understand what they are.
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 2:11pm #73
    Excuse me for not paying attention all along. But I just read that Apple used her in commercials to sell an Apple watch, but neither she nor her family received any compensation. And people think that it was the USGA using her? I'd suggest that it was Apple that "used" her for their benefit. Apple certainly has plenty of legal advisers, perhaps Apple should have had someone review the USGA regulations regarding Amateur status, to be sure that Apple didn't **** her out of her opportunity to play amateur golf.



    Having said all that, I think the USGA did the appropriate thing. Its absolutely clear that she broke the rule as written, but leniency was in order for a number of reasons.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • DinosaurDinosaur Members Posts: 1,986 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 3:08pm #74
    davep043 wrote:


    Excuse me for not paying attention all along. But I just read that Apple used her in commercials to sell an Apple watch, but neither she nor her family received any compensation. And people think that it was the USGA using her? I'd suggest that it was Apple that "used" her for their benefit. Apple certainly has plenty of legal advisers, perhaps Apple should have had someone review the USGA regulations regarding Amateur status, to be sure that Apple didn't **** her out of her opportunity to play amateur golf.



    Having said all that, I think the USGA did the appropriate thing. Its absolutely clear that she broke the rule as written, but leniency was in order for a number of reasons.




    Taking it to the absurd......would I violate my amateur status if I were to monetize my You Tube Feed? Of course, it would be moot since I have very few followers anyway. Also I am not a member of USGA let alone compete except with myself or the course. I maintain my own HI, but only to create a personal benchmark for other courses. (aka HJ)
    "Non rinunciare mai quello
    che desideri...."
    Go with what you know!
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,418 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:
    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.


    She is the feature of an Apple commercial. Apple being the single most recognizable brand on the plant. That fact alone gives her market appeal as she becomes a professional. It’s marketing 101!

    It also doesn’t hurt in building her own “brand.”
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    Sixcat wrote:

    BertGA wrote:
    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.


    She is the feature of an Apple commercial. Apple being the single most recognizable brand on the plant. That fact alone gives her market appeal as she becomes a professional. It’s marketing 101!

    It also doesn’t hurt in building her own “brand.”




    This is absurd.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 7:13pm #77


    She is the feature of an Apple commercial. Apple being the single most recognizable brand on the plant. That fact alone gives her market appeal as she becomes a professional. It’s marketing 101!

    It also doesn’t hurt in building her own “brand.”




    It doesn't matter what the brand is. Has absolute zero bearing on the NON-Issue. Apple was looking for a girl that could hit a golfball and she fit the mold for what they were looking for. ANY girl that could hit a golf ball would have broken the stupid USGA rule, it just happened to be Lucy Li. Lucy Li isn't even a house hold name to the general public. In fact, I don't think there is anyone on the LPGA that is a household name other than Lexi Thompson. A stupid Apple Ad that appeared on YouTube has ZERO marketing or brand appeal as a professional female athlete. LPGA and woman's sports in general don't have marketable "brands". Mike Davis is a waste and so is the USGA. They are nothing more than a bunch of arrogant fools. Stupid, archaic rule in this day of social media and technology. Need to stop worrying about stupid stuff like this and look at the mockery they have made in golf with the new updated and crappier rules.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SixcatSixcat SWVAPosts: 1,418 ✭✭
    My wife has a BS in Marketing Management and an MBA to go along with 20 years experience on “Madison Avenue!” You’ll have to forgive me for valuing her opinion over a couple of random dudes on a message board!
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 8:29pm #79
    Sixcat wrote:
    My wife has a BS in Marketing Management and an MBA to go along with 20 years experience on “Madison Avenue!” You’ll have to forgive me for valuing her opinion over a couple of random dudes on a message board!




    She must be on the bottom of the totem pole.



    Everybody know somebody that knows something on the internet.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • JDee1935JDee1935 Members Posts: 15 ✭✭
    buckeyefl wrote:

    wlm wrote:


    Glad the USGA made the right call here.




    Except it's not the right call. Just more USGA ineptitude.




    It's a really bad decision, one that many of her player peers, and their families are ticked off about. Sad, that they let one family and player openly break the rules, then let her off. This will have profound snowball effect over the next few years. Amateurs know they can get away with murder now, and use the excuse [ lying as Li family did] that,,"they didn't know"
  • wlmwlm Members Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited Feb 15, 2019 11:44pm #81
    I completely disagree.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    JDee1935 wrote:
    buckeyefl wrote:

    wlm wrote:


    Glad the USGA made the right call here.




    Except it's not the right call. Just more USGA ineptitude.




    It's a really bad decision, one that many of her player peers, and their families are ticked off about. Sad, that they let one family and player openly break the rules, then let her off. This will have profound snowball effect over the next few years. Amateurs know they can get away with murder now, and use the excuse [ lying as Li family did] that,,"they didn't know"




    Absolutely absurd.
  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    JDee1935 wrote:

    buckeyefl wrote:

    wlm wrote:


    Glad the USGA made the right call here.




    Except it's not the right call. Just more USGA ineptitude.




    It's a really bad decision, one that many of her player peers, and their families are ticked off about. Sad, that they let one family and player openly break the rules, then let her off. This will have profound snowball effect over the next few years. Amateurs know they can get away with murder now, and use the excuse u] lying as Li family did[/u that,,"they didn't know"


    This post brings up a few questions:

    Which decision, the one that says she violated the rule, or the one that chose not to penalize her for breaking it?

    Who is actually ticked off? Do you have some references?

    Did the Li family really lie? Again, do you have a source, or is it just your opinion?



    I don't have a problem with anyone having an opinion. But that opinion isn't very persuasive to me unless its based on some kind of facts.
  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl Members Posts: 5,363 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    Are you sure about that?



    Ask the yourself the first question again and slow down and think it through. If you come up with the same answer then rinse and repeat. Theres a reason she was asked and a reason the parents said yes.
  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl Members Posts: 5,363 ✭✭

    Sixcat wrote:

    BertGA wrote:
    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.


    She is the feature of an Apple commercial. Apple being the single most recognizable brand on the plant. That fact alone gives her market appeal as she becomes a professional. It’s marketing 101!

    It also doesn’t hurt in building her own “brand.”




    This is absurd.




    Actually is factual and 100% on point.
  • BertGABertGA Posts: 270 ✭✭
    buckeyefl wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    Are you sure about that?



    Ask the yourself the first question again and slow down and think it through. If you come up with the same answer then rinse and repeat. Theres a reason she was asked and a reason the parents said yes.




    I have asked myself, and I come up with the same answer. She is an amateur. She cannot make money from her image. USGA, DCP, AJGA, have been using her likeness for a long time. She’s not getting paid by them, and they have no guilt using her.



    I asked the guy married to an ad professional, all I got was “my wife said so”.



    If you want to argue she MAY benefit from this in the future, that’s a different point. Will she benefit once she turns pro in X years? I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone else does, either. To most viewing that ad, she was an anonymous golf girl. She will be just as anonymous when she turns pro, unless they know her for her golf, in which case it was the golf that got her noticed, not the Apple ad.



    At best, I think this is a footnote in her Wiki page.
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,200 ✭✭
    I didn't even know who Lucy Li was before seeing this thread. Visibility and exposure, as well as likability, leads to endorsement contracts ($$). You guys saying she doesn't benefit from this Apple deal are deluding yourselves.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    buckeyefl wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:

    BertGA wrote:
    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.


    She is the feature of an Apple commercial. Apple being the single most recognizable brand on the plant. That fact alone gives her market appeal as she becomes a professional. It’s marketing 101!

    It also doesn’t hurt in building her own “brand.”




    This is absurd.




    Actually is factual and 100% on point.




    Not factual nor on point. Opinion. You guys are absurd. Honestly surprised about your take on it.
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,017 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:
    buckeyefl wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    Not sure I agree it was the right call but not sure the USGA had any other alternative. Either way, the Li family greatly benefit. They couldn't have bought this kind of publicity on Madison Avenue.




    How did she benefit from this? She was already the most widely known junior, alongside Pano. For those that follow golf, there was no increase in visibility.




    Are you sure about that?



    Ask the yourself the first question again and slow down and think it through. If you come up with the same answer then rinse and repeat. Theres a reason she was asked and a reason the parents said yes.




    I have asked myself, and I come up with the same answer. She is an amateur. She cannot make money from her image. USGA, DCP, AJGA, have been using her likeness for a long time. She’s not getting paid by them, and they have no guilt using her.



    I asked the guy married to an ad professional, all I got was “my wife said so”.



    If you want to argue she MAY benefit from this in the future, that’s a different point. Will she benefit once she turns pro in X years? I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone else does, either. To most viewing that ad, she was an anonymous golf girl. She will be just as anonymous when she turns pro, unless they know her for her golf, in which case it was the golf that got her noticed, not the Apple ad.



    At best, I think this is a footnote in her Wiki page.




    This^^^^^
  • BertGABertGA Posts: 270 ✭✭
    Nessism wrote:


    I didn't even know who Lucy Li was before seeing this thread. Visibility and exposure, as well as likability, leads to endorsement contracts ($$). You guys saying she doesn't benefit from this Apple deal are deluding yourselves.




    So what contracts or endorsements has this produced?



    Oh, that’s right— she’s an amateur. She can’t sign endorsement deals.

  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,200 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    Nessism wrote:


    I didn't even know who Lucy Li was before seeing this thread. Visibility and exposure, as well as likability, leads to endorsement contracts ($$). You guys saying she doesn't benefit from this Apple deal are deluding yourselves.




    So what contracts or endorsements has this produced?



    Oh, that's right— she's an amateur. She can't sign endorsement deals.




    That's not the point. She benefited. And that's what the USGA says separates a pro from an amateur.
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