i hope this is the place...

[golfandfishing]

I pay property tax for my home. It’s not private property?

[Matt J]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

 

Not the correct definition of "private property" or "tenancy."

[Hawkeye77]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

 

Well that's the most confusing post I've seen on here in a long, long time, including some of my own.

 

I'm going Costanza - I guess it makes sense if you think it does?

[bscinstnct]

Why on earth would you tell the guard that you are waiting on a “friend”? You know full well that he was sent to find out who you are and why you are in the parking lot. Why be ambiguous like that? Why not just say “Hi. I’m Sourpuss, a guest of Jim Smith. He’s a member here and I’m his guest today, just waiting for him to arrive.”

 

Saying “I’m waiting on a friend” while parked in the lot of a private club begs for them to ask you to leave, you are not indicating in any way that you are with a member.

 

 

Edit to add: I’m sorry this happened to you. Your race certainly drew attention from the members. However I believe your unclear response led to your dismissal. May not have been intentional on your part to omit that your “friend” is a member, but not providing that piece of information welcomes suspicion on anyone hanging out in their car in the parking lot.

 

See post #9 in this thread. He gave the security guard the names of 4 members who he was meeting on 5 occasions.

 

Not exactly. He said he gave them names of 4 friends who were members, not that he was meeting them. Put yourself in the guard’s place. “I’m here meeting a friend. I know 4 members here. I’m meeting a member, his name is ....”. Repeat 5x.

 

Why would it take 3 sentences to get to that? I understand he was maybe flummoxed, but at the point the guard is obligated to be highly suspicious and act on behalf of the members who raised concern. Again, his race likely drew attention - but his action drew his dismissal. Incorrect as it may be in hindsight, the guard didn’t have the luxury of reading about the account prior to being in a situation with a person not giving a straight answer. Sourpuss’ first answer of “I’m meeting a friend here” is ambiguous at best. It is the equivalent of saying “I don’t have to show you my ID” to a police officer when you are a passenger in a stopped vehicle. It’s true, you don’t. And it’s true, he was meeting a friend. But the answer is not a forthcoming or positive way to participate in the interaction. Then rattling off 4 names of people he knows before settling on his statement of being a guest of another member couldn’t have helped.

 

I think the point is that

 

If it was a white guy, with DDS plates, yapping on his cell phone

 

The guard wouldnt even come over.

[golfandfishing]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

 

Well that's the most confusing post I've seen on here in a long, long time, including some of my own.

 

I'm going Costanza - I guess it makes sense if you think it does?

 

Yeah, I think I’m going to bow out now. Looks like he is trying to invent some sort of scenario involving defaulting on taxes somehow. I’m more inclined to follow blade’s lead and quit the club if this happened to me personally. But I’m also curious why sourpuss didn’t just say he was a guest right away so I pressed on. Somehow my pressing squeezes out a crazy response from les strokes. So I’m out. Hope Sourpuss gets to enjoy his friends away from this club.

[deadsolid...shank]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

 

Well that's the most confusing post I've seen on here in a long, long time, including some of my own.

 

 

And it’s quite an accomplishment to make the most confusing post here, because there have been some real dandys lately!

[hammer1]

Why on earth would you tell the guard that you are waiting on a friend? You know full well that he was sent to find out who you are and why you are in the parking lot. Why be ambiguous like that? Why not just say Hi. Im Sourpuss, a guest of Jim Smith. Hes a member here and Im his guest today, just waiting for him to arrive.

 

Saying Im waiting on a friend while parked in the lot of a private club begs for them to ask you to leave, you are not indicating in any way that you are with a member.

 

 

Edit to add: Im sorry this happened to you. Your race certainly drew attention from the members. However I believe your unclear response led to your dismissal. May not have been intentional on your part to omit that your friend is a member, but not providing that piece of information welcomes suspicion on anyone hanging out in their car in the parking lot.

 

See post #9 in this thread. He gave the security guard the names of 4 members who he was meeting on 5 occasions.

 

Not exactly. He said he gave them names of 4 friends who were members, not that he was meeting them. Put yourself in the guards place. Im here meeting a friend. I know 4 members here. Im meeting a member, his name is ..... Repeat 5x.

 

Why would it take 3 sentences to get to that? I understand he was maybe flummoxed, but at the point the guard is obligated to be highly suspicious and act on behalf of the members who raised concern. Again, his race likely drew attention - but his action drew his dismissal. Incorrect as it may be in hindsight, the guard didnt have the luxury of reading about the account prior to being in a situation with a person not giving a straight answer. Sourpuss first answer of Im meeting a friend here is ambiguous at best. It is the equivalent of saying I dont have to show you my ID to a police officer when you are a passenger in a stopped vehicle. Its true, you dont. And its true, he was meeting a friend. But the answer is not a forthcoming or positive way to participate in the interaction. Then rattling off 4 names of people he knows before settling on his statement of being a guest of another member couldnt have helped.

 

The OP told the security guard the name of the member he was meeting 5 times. That’s not good enough for you? Is there a magic number of times he must repeat himself before he can be treated respectfully?

[deadsolid...shank]

It really sounds like a security guard who got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning. And decided to flex a little muscle.

[ChristopherMcDonald]

Disgaraceful you were treated that way. In the same boat with blade, if this happened to a friend at a club belonged to, believe me there would be waves made.

[North Texas]

Most likely falls into the category of "the truth is somewhere in the middle".

[Sourpuss]

"This post will need approval from a moderator before this post is shown." and this is essentially is what happened to me and golf wants to appeal to the masses. a question for you guys that belong to CC, how many dark skinned players have you seen at your club? here is ca. i have not seen many in my area.

[Birdie Mac]

Just wanted to say how pleased I am that, no matter what side of the fence you fall on for this topic, everyone has been civil and courteous. Not usually the case on the internets.

 

One of the things I love about golf is it gives you an opportunity to mix with people with whom you usually wouldn't, and you find you have more in common than you might think. On the other hand, as appears to be in this case, it gives people the opportunity to show their hind quarters.

 

Be kind.

[Sourpuss]

thanks again guys for everything, mods you can close this thread. i just wanted to vent a little after watching the Charlie sifford special. luckily my business partner and friend (surgeon) donates his time to the genesis open and is giving me some free tickets.

[N8dogg2669]

Whoever the member is that you were a guest of should be raising hell about this. I wouldn't stand for a guest of mine, especially one who spends as much time and money at the club to be treated that way.

[caniac6]

This has to be extremely embarrassing for your friend. I can't imagine having a guest of mine being treated like this. I hope he raised holy hell with the GM. If I were your friend, I'd be looking for a new club. both you and your friend deserve an apology.

[Forged4ever]

I had kind of a mixed reaction to your story. On the one hand, I hate that people of color still deal with situations like this, and on the other hand I feel like something is missing from the story. A person dressed appropriately for a country club round of golf isn’t generally going to be seen as a physical threat, even by the most bigoted of people. Certainly not multiple people calling security. Honestly, I kind of wonder if the call from the GM was more about some members thinking that you’re abusing the guest policy. Where I’ve been a member, a guy who plays a lot and takes lessons at the club but doesn’t join would be looked at with something less than a welcoming attitude by the folks who actually ponied up.

 

Regardless, agree completely with you on the efforts made by guys breaking the color barrier in golf and other “country club” sports. The women, too, who are still fighting for the right to full memberships and access to tee times at clubs that integrated decades ago.

i was wearing the appropriate clothing, tucked in. i have multiple friends who are members, they all ask me to play in the member guest, i spent $1500 on dinner a few weeks back and spend anywhere from 2-5 hundred bucks a month, plus i spend another $200 on tennis racquets getting strung and was asked to join but their gym is horrible. we were considering joining up until this happened.

My stance on this and my family background(Since we have not exchanged before, my Stepgrandfather and the man that raised me my first 14 years and one of the two most influential males in my life was a Black Man) is well documented on these pages, though I agree with Robin and not that you’re being disingenuous, because you appear to be candid, honest and open, nor do you appear to be carrying a “chip,” as quite the contrary, you are much more low keyed and subdued than I would be if I were one of your Buds, and I’m a friggin white guy, lol.

 

That being said, I also belong to a top-tier club and it’s just strange that with you spending as much time and money as you appeared to have spent there, that you could not have given them the Pro’s name, or whomever you took lessons from, or even someone at the tennis hut(we have a a hut down by our courts and that’s what it’s called), who would know you from getting the rackets worked on. I would also think that you would have met and known a locker room attendant or one of the bartenders in the Men’s Grille, especially since you played in their Invitational, which is every club’s biggest event.

 

I am not familiar with club security personal as neither we, nor Oakmont CC, Fox Chapel Golf Club, St. Clair CC or Sewickley Heights, the other top clubs in the Pittsburgh area, have them, however I still don’t understand asking the same question five times. Also, I do not understand you being able to go up and eat dinner without a member present because this is not allowed at any of the formentioned clubs. A non-member may take private golf lessons, though that is the extent of a non-member’s privileges at any of these clubs.

 

I am most stunned that the GM would call you himself. Having served on both our club’s board along with being a past Chair of the Golf Board, along with serving on every golf committee, and chairing most, our GM would NEVER contact a member’s guest, on any matter. If a situation ever rose to the level of a guest being asked not to return to the club, for any reason, a member would be contacted by letter, followed up by either a telephone or personal meeting with the employee(s) directly involved with the situation that caused this to occur, along with the GM.

 

Whomever that guest’s member was would be responsible for telling him anything like you described. The member is ALWAYS responsible for their guest, their behavior and any subsequent actions that may be taken.

 

The fact that you stated that you were extended a proffer for membership makes this all the more stunning because in all of the clubs that I’ve mentioned, the GM would definitely know your name had you been received a proffer for membership, as he would have been present when the vote was taken on you or if not, he would have been provided with the list of new members’ names so that the appropriate paperwork could be forwarded.

 

This truly leaves me shaking my head because the final outcome makes no sense based on everything that you said leading up to that.

 

Also, WTF did your Bud(s) have to say about this???

 

FWIW, sounds like a second rate club, I don’t care where it is, who belongs there or what it costs.

 

That’s not how a top-tier club operates

 

You’re better off somewhere else!

 

Stay well My Friend?

RP

[Curtdr]

There's something missing from the story, methinks...