Headphones in a match?

[Augster]

I believe Sawgrass has the relevant interpretation in regards to audio/video. There are massive tv boards at PGA events. In some cases, a player on a par 3 tee can watch the TV broadcast of the group ahead of him on the green. He can watch the break of putts, see wind speed and direction etc. He didn’t put the TV board there, but he can certainly use it and benefit from it. It’s ambient. It’s not anything like a spectator behind a green walking up to the player and saying his putt breaks right for everyone he’s watched all day.

And yes, there are people here in the US that play music out loud during competitions. The ruling bodies have knuckled under and the player no longer even has to bother to ask if he can play music. It’s legal, unless a committee prohibits it. Even when it used to be illegal, if I reported it, I never found a committee that enforced the previous rule. They basically shrugged their collective shoulders and said, “What can you do?”

3 years ago in my club championship I had a guy ask me if I minded if he played some music. I said, I do mind, but it’s also illegal. As of the 2019 rules, they don’t even have to ask anymore. They can just play music, and then the onus is on me to ask them to turn it off.

At least now I can ask them to wear headphones.

[antip]

I am not referring to something that I would consider 'ambient' noise, that I think of as simply background sound. We are dealing here with a 'phone me when it happens' bizarre hypothetical. Here's the version that I am 'hearing' in my head: player in your group has music on that has clear duf duf metronomic sounds and you immediately recognise that this is notably beneficial to your tempo because this is precisely the way you practice getting your timing right. In this unlikely hypothetical, I believe you have an obligation to seek to do something about it on the basis of 1.3c(1)/1. IMO, what you cannot do is exploit that situation repeatedly. This is not that flagpole example that Sawgrass raised (I'm in agreement there), just saying at some point this bizarre example crosses a line. Not much point trying to finesse where that line may be or what kind of action should be taken because we are already well down in the rabbit warren.

I'll try another example of the principle. You have a player in the group with a significant enthusiasm for caring for the course. This player gets busy with repair tool repairing plug marks in front of the green at every spare opportunity because he sees this as high value add - it's rare anyone attends to the fringe. You witness this on one hole before you get to your ball a little short of the green and the enthusiast clearly has improved your line of play for your putt from the fringe. Later in the game, the same situation arises - so you ask the player to hold off on the repairs until you make your stroke. My point: if you consciously recognise that someone is doing something that gives you a clear advantage and would be a penalty if you did it yourself, you are not free to ride those coat tails repeatedly.

[antip]

I empathize. If this behaviour happened here, I'd be very confident tournament organisers/club Committees would squash it quickly.

[Mr. Bean]

Now we are in the core if the issue. Good post for an aussie

[HatsForBats]

Maybe suggest to them that they can invest in some Bone Conduction Headphones? That way they can listen to their music without anyone else hearing it and they are not blocking their own hearing.

[lchang]

Read this and thought of this thread. ;-)

 

There was another funny exchange caught earlier in the round when Wolff hit a shot and said with a laugh, "I heard the ice cream truck."

Wolff swore afterward that the music from the truck stuck in his head and helped him.

“I think I have to give credit to the ice cream truck that was circling the property. I’m not joking, actually,” Wolff said. “Just had that little like ice cream truck song in my head, and I think that helped me just not think about the speed or the line or anything [on putts]. Just keep my head free, which I’ve been giving a lot of credit to this week.”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/takeaways-from-day-3-at-the-rocket-mortgage-classic

[antip]

LOL. No penalty there, the rules don't sanction sabotaging Mr Whippy. In this country, the universal music of the ice cream dude is "Greensleeves".

[limegreengent]

It is clear that the authorities do not want the use of any form of audio or visual aids to provide any assistance to a player.

Personal devices should not be allowed - Fullstop. - which would automatically rule any indirect assistance from use byfellow players.

Why the authorities continue to rely on "integrity" of players , believing that golfers are a special breed of sportsman , is naive and does not protect the rest of the field .

Clearly being aware of the possible and genuine risk of abuse of this rule by some they have at least highlighted that a Committee can adopt local rule G-8 to outlaw any such use.

Any Committee worth its salt would immediately introduce this rule if faced with players using such equipment no matter what reasons they offered.

 

[Sawgrass]

“It is clear that the authorities do not want the use of any form of audio or visual aids to provide any assistance to a player.”

 

If by “authorities” you mean the USGA and/or R&A, that statement is flat out wrong. These authorities go out of their way to enumerate allowed use.

 

And even if LR G-8 is adopted, 4.3a(4)/1 still allows some other use of electronic visual aids.

[C6 Snowboarder]

I wish the new rules of 2019 had not removed the music restriction. I am surprised by the number of golfers I see or HEAR on the golf course now playing loud music without caring for the group behind them or ahead of them. The only thing missing is a large mirror in the music players golf cart so they can see who is the most important person on the golf course. The music playing golfers are probably also the ones who spit sunflower seed shells on the putting surfaces.

[Mr. Bean]

Are you sure those people would pay heed to the Rule forbidding music on the course..?

FWIW, there are restrictions about music in the Rules as there were earlier as well. The concept is somewhat more permissive today but it is still forbidden to listen to music that helps you to swing or eliminates distractions. Also R4.3a(4) tells us that 'consideration should be shown to others', and suddenly we are back to my first sentence...

[DavePelz4]

So yesterday if Justin Thomas pulled out his cell phone, watched PGA Tour, saw video of how putts were breaking and heard Faldo state, "No one realizes that putt breaks to the left" he'd be OK as long as he said it was for entertainment purposes and his "intent" wasn't to learn anything?

Too many of the rules come down to "intent" and although golf is theoretically a game of integrity, we see too many players on every level not realize that their intent and integrity need to coexist.

[Sawgrass]

Was he playing while watching, or was it before his round started?

[LeoLeo99]

We roll with Turkey In The Straw around here. Greensleeves sounds a bit depressing.

[Pepperturbo]

I could be wrong but what the tournament / rules committee does as far as covering weird rulings depends on the hosting club culture and or stature of event. I have never seen anyone wearing headphones listening to music during a regional amateur golf event. Never seen it during inter-club team competition either.

There are all sorts of natural wind indicators that are usable by all players, just no one can hold up a wind indicator or flag with the intent to determine wind force and or direction. Kinda odd though when you think all good golfers, including me, pull grass and throw it up to measure wind direction and force.

If walking to a tee that is next to a driving range where music playing out-loud. If during teeing off your tempo benefits from that nearby music - no penalty that I am aware of.

 

[Sean2]

When I am playing golf, the only music I want to hear is that provided by Mother Nature.

[DavePelz4]

He was watching for entertainment purposes during his round and to see how his friend was doing. He heard Faldo make a comment about how everyone misreads a putt and when he had the same putt, he happened to remember Faldo's comments about how the putt breaks, went against his read and voila, putt made. No "intent" other than to see how his friend was doing.

[miamistomp]

USA ice cream truck music

 

[Mr. Bean]

So he was watching a broadcast from the same competition he was playing in and from his own device? Sounds like a breach to me.

[Sawgrass]

I agree.

 

From 4.3a(4):

Not Allowed

Viewing video showing play of the player or other players during the competition that helps the player in choosing a club, making a stroke

It doesn’t mention intent, just value.

[DavePelz4]

He was watching his friend play and wasn't even on the same hole so there was nothing at that moment where he was looking for help in choosing a club or making a stroke. Not trying to put words in your mouth but are you saying if it's on the board, it's not a breach. If it's on his phone it's a breach?

[Dpavs]

To me the rule is an aberration and needs review and rewriting. I believe it is intentionally indecisive due to the incorporation of and reference to "background music". One could formulate an argument that all music listened to is background music when you are playing golf as it serves to set a mood and is a background element to the primary activity of golfing. You could also equally raise the argument that any music in and of itself that is intended to be the primary focus of what you are listening to or viewing and for which you can control the volume does generally not fit the accepted concepts of what "background music" is and is typically used for. The rule is intentionally vague and poorly worded imho and until there is a decision or a rewrite one could argue either side equaly well and without the ability to reach any definitive conclusion.

[antip]

Thank you, very educational. Gotta say, though, I couldn't make it through the full three minutes.

[antip]

The music is better than the name. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

Here's a down under you tube version:

[antip]

Yes, precisely. On the board and the player is absolved. Player action on their own device, breach.

[Mr. Bean]

It is here where the player's integrity steps in. If he wants to listen to certain music in order to set the tempo right in his swing he is in breach and he knows it. If he is listening music for just to calm him down and relieve his tension he is not in breach and he knows that, too. That is how I see it.

[antip]

I'm aware of an RB view that listening to music to calm down falls under the wider 'eliminating distractions' and is creating a potential advantage. So it would be a breach. This mirrors the notion of 'improve' that underlies Rule 8 in the CATS sense.

[Mr. Bean]

Now we are stepping in an area that is no longer even grey....

Do you have anything in writing to support that view? Because the concept of 'background music' IMHO means 'creating an atmosphere' and thus directly influencing in a person's mind. So if you have anything official to shed some light on the concept I am willing to read it and I believe so would many others.

P.S. What does CATS mean?

[Sawgrass]

I agree with Antip that 4.3a(4) prohibits listening to music in order to calm down.

 

May I also say to others that the complication of introducing "intent" in this rule is necessary if you want to avoid unintended penalties for, let's say, making a phone call and having a "musical hold" suddenly come on. You are thereby listening to music, and I'd hope we can all agree that briefly doing so in that situation should not automatically be a penalty. Hence, the useful "in order to . . ." complications.

[Mr. Bean]

'I agree with Antip that 4.3a(4) prohibits listening to music in order to calm down.'

As soon as I get that in writing from the RBs I accept. Until then I do not, the concept is just way too ambiguous to support that kind of interpretation.

What other possible purpose for a background music has than getting you in a certain mood??