Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[Argonne69]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414273705' post='10350231']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414269770' post='10350003']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]

The thing is, a fivesome is rare. There are tons of singles out there. Courses btch that they don't have full tee sheets, but then turn around and discourage singles from playing. No, I'm not going to simply show up and *hope* I get on the course. I've been burned waaaaaaaay too many times. Allow me to book an open slot with a twosome or threesome a few days ahead of time, and I'm going to commit.
[/quote]

Traditionally the game does not recognize either a single or a 5some. You're trying to justify something that you personally like (and I do too) but that doesn't traditionally have status in the golf world.

A solution - IMO is something similar to if a course ought to just set up 1 or 2 tee times per hour where singles can get a solid reservation and be grouped with other singles, and/or they can take their chances.. As an example in a typical hour if you have 10 minute tee times - reserve 9:10 and 9:40 where singles can reserve and be joined together. OR you could go out and hope to join up at 9; 920;930; 950 or 10.
[/quote]

Well, the game has to evolve now, doesn't it? Time is at a premium. Between work and family, people don't have the time. I know *very* few groups that regularly play together. If the golf industry thinks that they're going to thrive by having tee sheets full of foursomes, they're sadly mistaken.

I like your idea of setting aside a fixed time(s) each hour for singles to book. I'd also like to see courses allow singles to book as a 4th along with a threesome. The majority of course already allow this, so I'm not quite sure why the remainder don't.

[Sean2]

With all the "slow play" threads, it is hard to believe golf is dying.

[billh17]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1414276646' post='10350415']
With all the "slow play" threads, it is hard to believe golf is dying.
[/quote] good deduction,sean................does seem a little odd

[Soloman1]

The supply of faster golf is not keeping pace with the demand for faster golf.

Many people cite slow play (or not enough time) for the reason they quit.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414273705' post='10350231']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414269770' post='10350003']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]

The thing is, a fivesome is rare. There are tons of singles out there. Courses btch that they don't have full tee sheets, but then turn around and discourage singles from playing. No, I'm not going to simply show up and *hope* I get on the course. I've been burned waaaaaaaay too many times. Allow me to book an open slot with a twosome or threesome a few days ahead of time, and I'm going to commit.
[/quote]

Traditionally the game does not recognize either a single or a 5some. You're trying to justify something that you personally like (and I do too) but that doesn't traditionally have status in the golf world.

A solution - IMO is something similar to if a course ought to just set up 1 or 2 tee times per hour where singles can get a solid reservation and be grouped with other singles, and/or they can take their chances.. As an example in a typical hour if you have 10 minute tee times - reserve 9:10 and 9:40 where singles can reserve and be joined together. OR you could go out and hope to join up at 9; 920;930; 950 or 10.
[/quote]

Traditionally the game is played with feathers in the balls and wooden shafts. What's that got to do with anything ?

You don't change with the times you die.

Your example of holding open 2 4-somes per hour for singles to fill in is ridiculous. I can just see hours where no singles are signed up and 4-somes want to pre-book. "Sorry gentlemen but those tee times are reserved for singles". [size=4] [/size]

I'd love to hear from some golf course operators as to why they won't let singles book in advance. Since I don't think any single is going to expect to be the first booker in a 4-some, the issues are 2-some and 3-somes. 3-somes shouldn't present ANY problem to accepting a single to fill in as that is what the course would love to do anyway, especially ahead of time (as opposed to a walkup).

So the only real "problem" would seem to be 2-somes (already reserved). The course would much rather fill in another 2-some than a single and then hope for another single. If they accept the single, a 2-some that subsequently tries is to book is denied and they lose a greens fee.

Of course the golf course *could* disallow singles from booking with a 2-some IF there are 1 or more 3-somes available to fill in with within say, an hour or so of the time the singles wants to book. Once the 3-somes are made into 4-somes they may allow singles to then fill in with 2-somes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[rlynham]

Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414590741' post='10367405']
Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.
[/quote]

What year is this? 2003? If they'll take a reservation for a single, there's no reason to not do so on their website.

I like to book my rounds when I'm sitting in boring meetings at work, so phone calls are verboten.

Actually, there are numerous courses that will not take a reservation for a single, even if you call them. They tell you to come out, which can be a bad idea on some days.

[rlynham]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414599853' post='10368309']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414590741' post='10367405']
Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.
[/quote]

What year is this? 2003? If they'll take a reservation for a single, there's no reason to not do so on their website.

I like to book my rounds when I'm sitting in boring meetings at work, so phone calls are verboten.

Actually, there are numerous courses that will not take a reservation for a single, even if you call them. They tell you to come out, which can be a bad idea on some days.
[/quote]


There is a very simple reason not to book singles online. If a single books a time then a foursome won't be able to book that time. The online booking isn't just going to show times where there are already twosomes and threesomes booked.

If a course refuses to book a single with a twosome or a threesome that is already booked then forget them.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414614298' post='10369709']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414599853' post='10368309']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414590741' post='10367405']
Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.
[/quote]

What year is this? 2003? If they'll take a reservation for a single, there's no reason to not do so on their website.

I like to book my rounds when I'm sitting in boring meetings at work, so phone calls are verboten.

Actually, there are numerous courses that will not take a reservation for a single, even if you call them. They tell you to come out, which can be a bad idea on some days.
[/quote]


There is a very simple reason not to book singles online. If a single books a time then a foursome won't be able to book that time. The online booking isn't just going to show times where there are already twosomes and threesomes booked.

If a course refuses to book a single with a twosome or a threesome that is already booked then forget them.
[/quote]

If you bothered to read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see that nobody is suggesting that singles be allowed to book an open 4slot. We can accept that. However, the reservation software can be easily designed to allow singles to book as the 4th with an existing 3some, or as a 3rd with an existing 2some. Many courses already allow this. At a minimum, allowing a single to book with an existing 3some would be better than nothing.

I agree about your last point. I have more or less given up playing courses that won't allow a single to book over the phone on the morning of the round. Time is too precious to drive 30 to 50 minutes to a course, only to find it packed solid for the next 2 hours.

[marmooskapaul]

Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul

[Bad9]

[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]

Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.

[Startzel]

[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1414618034' post='10370049']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]

Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.
[/quote]

How is it bad business? Do you upset the group paying for two rounds or do you upset the group paying for one round?

The smart businessman sides with the group of two.

[rlynham]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414615734' post='10369851']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414614298' post='10369709']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414599853' post='10368309']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414590741' post='10367405']
Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.
[/quote]

What year is this? 2003? If they'll take a reservation for a single, there's no reason to not do so on their website.

I like to book my rounds when I'm sitting in boring meetings at work, so phone calls are verboten.

Actually, there are numerous courses that will not take a reservation for a single, even if you call them. They tell you to come out, which can be a bad idea on some days.
[/quote]


There is a very simple reason not to book singles online. If a single books a time then a foursome won't be able to book that time. The online booking isn't just going to show times where there are already twosomes and threesomes booked.

If a course refuses to book a single with a twosome or a threesome that is already booked then forget them.
[/quote]

If you bothered to read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see that nobody is suggesting that singles be allowed to book an open 4slot. We can accept that. However, the reservation software can be easily designed to allow singles to book as the 4th with an existing 3some, or as a 3rd with an existing 2some. Many courses already allow this. At a minimum, allowing a single to book with an existing 3some would be better than nothing.

I agree about your last point. I have more or less given up playing courses that won't allow a single to book over the phone on the morning of the round. Time is too precious to drive 30 to 50 minutes to a course, only to find it packed solid for the next 2 hours.
[/quote]


Maybe the software can be designed that way but i dont think it is generally. In the systems i have tried there is no indication how many spots are open for a given time. If it was designed that way then i can't imagine they would have any problem with a single joining an existing group.

I used to play as a single a lot. Over the last few years i have met guys at my home course that i like to play with so now i hardly ever go out as a single. I think i have done it twice so far this season. We almost always have 4. Actively discouraging singles is bad business.

[QuigleyDU]

I fly solo 90% of the time I play. I completely understand if a three some does not want me in there group. Just let me play through then. I wont hold you up I promise.

[irvtrain]

[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1414622071' post='10370379']
I fly solo 90% of the time I play. I completely understand if a three some does not want me in there group. Just let me play through then. I wont hold you up I promise.
[/quote]

I play as a single all the time. If the courses are packed, which is all the time in Denver, I'll hit the range or show up near the end of the day for one of the last tee times. It usually opens up then. I don't mind playing with whoever, but like most of you, I can't stand 2+ hours for each 9.

[Nacho1234]

I was hoping this thread was dead . Almost 800 responses ? Really ? Either you can make time for golf of you can't


End of story

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414618850' post='10370121']
[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1414618034' post='10370049']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]
Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.
[/quote]

How is it bad business? Do you upset the group paying for two rounds or do you upset the group paying for one round?

The smart businessman sides with the group of two.
[/quote]

So a twosome calls for a tee time around 10:30. The only time open within an hour on either side of 10:30 is already reserved by a twosome who wants to play alone. The pro should tell the guy on the phone "I have a tee time I could put you in at 10:30 but the twosome who is already in that slot wants to play alone. Sorry I can't accomodate you. I don't want your money".

The only way a twosome can be guaranteed to play alone at a daily fee course is to pay for all four slots.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414619239' post='10370159']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414615734' post='10369851']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414614298' post='10369709']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414599853' post='10368309']
[quote name='rlynham' timestamp='1414590741' post='10367405']
Just because a course doesn't allow a single to book online doesn't mean you can't reserve a time. Just call the shop and see if they will put you with a 2some or 3some that is already booked. I can't imagine they would refuse.
[/quote]

What year is this? 2003? If they'll take a reservation for a single, there's no reason to not do so on their website.

I like to book my rounds when I'm sitting in boring meetings at work, so phone calls are verboten.

Actually, there are numerous courses that will not take a reservation for a single, even if you call them. They tell you to come out, which can be a bad idea on some days.
[/quote]


There is a very simple reason not to book singles online. If a single books a time then a foursome won't be able to book that time. The online booking isn't just going to show times where there are already twosomes and threesomes booked.

If a course refuses to book a single with a twosome or a threesome that is already booked then forget them.
[/quote]

If you bothered to read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see that nobody is suggesting that singles be allowed to book an open 4slot. We can accept that. However, the reservation software can be easily designed to allow singles to book as the 4th with an existing 3some, or as a 3rd with an existing 2some. Many courses already allow this. At a minimum, allowing a single to book with an existing 3some would be better than nothing.

I agree about your last point. I have more or less given up playing courses that won't allow a single to book over the phone on the morning of the round. Time is too precious to drive 30 to 50 minutes to a course, only to find it packed solid for the next 2 hours.
[/quote]


Maybe the software can be designed that way but i dont think it is generally. In the systems i have tried there is no indication how many spots are open for a given time. If it was designed that way then i can't imagine they would have any problem with a single joining an existing group.

I used to play as a single a lot. Over the last few years i have met guys at my home course that i like to play with so now i hardly ever go out as a single. I think i have done it twice so far this season. We almost always have 4. Actively discouraging singles is bad business.
[/quote]

Practically every booking system I've run across shows the number of slot available. Courses that allow singles to book any slot will show either 1 Player Available, 1-2 Players Available, 1-3 Players Available, or 1-4 Players Available. For example, Harborside International in Chicago will allow a single to book any open slot ([url="http://www.harborsideinternational.com/book-tee-times.html"]http://www.harborsideinternational.com/book-tee-times.html[/url]).

Courses that allow singles to only book once a 2some or more has booked will display 1 Player Available or 1-2 Players Available.

Courses that don't allow singles to book will only show 2-4, or 2.

The thing is that the two categories of courses are often using the same software. The choice is up to the course, and not a limitation of the software.

[marmooskapaul]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1414626954' post='10370823']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414618850' post='10370121']
[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1414618034' post='10370049']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]
Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.
[/quote]

How is it bad business? Do you upset the group paying for two rounds or do you upset the group paying for one round?

The smart businessman sides with the group of two.
[/quote]

So a twosome calls for a tee time around 10:30. The only time open within an hour on either side of 10:30 is already reserved by a twosome who wants to play alone. The pro should tell the guy on the phone "I have a tee time I could put you in at 10:30 but the twosome who is already in that slot wants to play alone. Sorry I can't accomodate you. I don't want your money".

The only way a twosome can be guaranteed to play alone at a daily fee course is to pay for all four slots.
[/quote]

Don't get me wrong...I won't make anyone feel un-welcome that gets paired up with us. It happens so seldom it's no big deal. Usually when I decline this invitation is when playing through or being played through by a single.I can't imagine it's that fun watching me and my cousin playing a match play death match...lol
Paul

[rlynham]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414628285' post='10370931']


Practically every booking system I've run across shows the number of slot available. Courses that allow singles to book any slot will show either 1 Player Available, 1-2 Players Available, 1-3 Players Available, or 1-4 Players Available. For example, Harborside International in Chicago will allow a single to book any open slot ([url="http://www.harborsideinternational.com/book-tee-times.html"]http://www.harborsid...-tee-times.html[/url]).

Courses that allow singles to only book once a 2some or more has booked will display 1 Player Available or 1-2 Players Available.

Courses that don't allow singles to book will only show 2-4, or 2.

The thing is that the two categories of courses are often using the same software. The choice is up to the course, and not a limitation of the software.
[/quote]



I guess i would have to login to that site see what you are talking about. The initial screen certainly doesn't show how many spots are available. It only asks how many spots you want to reserve.

The systems i have used in MD don't show how many spots are available. Hopefully that will change.

[Break81]

Here is a novel idea, make the reservation system only allow single player bookings in the last 48 hours before you plan to play. If the time slot has a foursome open, there is less chance you are taking a spot away from anyone.

Most primetime tee times fill up days in advance. Therefore if the spot your looking for is open for Thursday @ 10:00 and today is Wednesday, who are you holding that precious spot for anyway?

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]To me, if I book for less then 4 players, especially on weekends, I have no business not expecting to play with others. As someone said, why don't you pay for all 4 positions?

[Bad9]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414618850' post='10370121']
[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1414618034' post='10370049']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]

Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.
[/quote]

How is it bad business? Do you upset the group paying for two rounds or do you upset the group paying for one round?

The smart businessman sides with the group of two.
[/quote]

I imagine the smart businessman is going to leave the opportunity open to have 4 paying spots filled rather than 1,2 or 3.

[duffer987]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1414633662' post='10371475']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]To me, if I book for less then 4 players, especially on weekends, I have no business not expecting to play with others. As someone said, why don't you pay for all 4 positions?
[/quote]

Indeed. Not sure whether that is a sense of entitlement (that's for you PT!) or just simply anti-social.
Try booking at tee time for two at any public course and ask them to not pair you up with anyone :-s

Join a private club if you want that kind of treatment.

[BillyZ2]

As long as the golfers I am paired up with are pleasant and follow common etiquette, I look forward to meeting new people. Golf is really a social sport, and I try to take advantage of that aspect.

[Startzel]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1414626954' post='10370823']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414618850' post='10370121']
[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1414618034' post='10370049']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]
Allowing that is very poor business for the course. Maybe if you agreed to pay for all four tee times.
[/quote]

How is it bad business? Do you upset the group paying for two rounds or do you upset the group paying for one round?

The smart businessman sides with the group of two.
[/quote]

So a twosome calls for a tee time around 10:30. The only time open within an hour on either side of 10:30 is already reserved by a twosome who wants to play alone. The pro should tell the guy on the phone "I have a tee time I could put you in at 10:30 but the twosome who is already in that slot wants to play alone. Sorry I can't accomodate you. I don't want your money".

The only way a twosome can be guaranteed to play alone at a daily fee course is to pay for all four slots.
[/quote]

That's a completely different scenario. My comment was aimed at a particular situation.

[mr_divots]

[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]
So long as all the groups that book as a 2 or 3-some show up that way. I can't stand when they show up as a 4-some unannounced and expect everyone to make it happen for them.

You're gonna wanna join a private if sharing the course is an issue.

[marmooskapaul]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1414684810' post='10373899']
[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1414617375' post='10369997']
Not to say it's a big deal, but if we show up as a two/three some. I prefer to play that way, without a stranger??? OK maybe I'm non social?
Paul
[/quote]
So long as all the groups that book as a 2 or 3-some show up that way. I can't stand when they show up as a 4-some unannounced and expect everyone to make it happen for them.



You're gonna wanna join a private if sharing the course is an issue.





[/quote]


I play over 75 rounds a year, all on public courses. I haven't been paired up in....6 years or more. It's not a big deal in my area. On very nice/destination courses...it's much more common..I realize that..and not a problem for me.

Paul

[csbonek]

Golf is flat out too expensive for your average person. Until golfnow arrived golf was overpriced. I will personally never play a local course without using golfnow ever again simply because of cost.

[Hutchi15]

Golf will forever stay popular - shouldn't be worried as I am not one of the major companies