Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[ilikegolf26]

[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1444653672' post='12444738']
You guys bring up a lot of great points with the changes in household dynamics and distractions of technology.

One more issue that I'd like to mention is what I call the wussification of America. This is the idea that every kid is a winner and should get a trophy just for participation. Parents don't want their kids to fail anymore. Golf is a complete antithesis of this ideology. Every player is going to fail most of the time with golf. I go to my nieces and nephews soccer games and tee ball games and they don't even keep score. Golf is hard. You don't have teammates that can mask other players inabilities. And the game is centered around keeping score so you know who is the winner and who is the loser.

The fear of losing has completely over taken desire of winning.
[/quote]

This is a very good post and exactly true.

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1444626803' post='12444320']
[quote name='metsmc' timestamp='1444603021' post='12442986']
Women are to blame. An older gentleman I played with a said something that really made sense to me. He said when he was growing up the man worked and come the weekend dad would be at the country club. Nowadays from my own experience being married with 2 kids if i tried to spend all weekend every weekend golfing i'd be looking for a new place to live.
[/quote]

That's why the divorce rate is 50+percent. In my house I play as much golf as I want and my wife of 17 years does her thing -- we are not joined at the hip and we are both happy. My whole life is set up around playing golf, and the only social interactions I care about are ones related to golf. No woman would be worth what is described in the above post.
[/quote]you sound like a bear to live with

What if your wife doesn't like golf social interactions ?

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='ilikegolf26' timestamp='1444654593' post='12444790']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1444653672' post='12444738']
You guys bring up a lot of great points with the changes in household dynamics and distractions of technology.

One more issue that I'd like to mention is what I call the wussification of America. This is the idea that every kid is a winner and should get a trophy just for participation. Parents don't want their kids to fail anymore. Golf is a complete antithesis of this ideology. Every player is going to fail most of the time with golf. I go to my nieces and nephews soccer games and tee ball games and they don't even keep score. Golf is hard. You don't have teammates that can mask other players inabilities. And the game is centered around keeping score so you know who is the winner and who is the loser.

The fear of losing has completely over taken desire of winning.
[/quote]

This is a very good post and exactly true.
[/quote]

I also agree.Its just such an overly hard game.Anyone that has quit because of this reason will never be condoned by me.Many many a time I wanted to find a new hobby

[king_biscuit]

[quote name='Ted Williams' timestamp='1444655003' post='12444806']
[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1444626803' post='12444320']
[quote name='metsmc' timestamp='1444603021' post='12442986']
Women are to blame. An older gentleman I played with a said something that really made sense to me. He said when he was growing up the man worked and come the weekend dad would be at the country club. Nowadays from my own experience being married with 2 kids if i tried to spend all weekend every weekend golfing i'd be looking for a new place to live.
[/quote]

That's why the divorce rate is 50+percent. In my house I play as much golf as I want and my wife of 17 years does her thing -- we are not joined at the hip and we are both happy. My whole life is set up around playing golf, and the only social interactions I care about are ones related to golf. No woman would be worth what is described in the above post.
[/quote]you sound like a bear to live with

What if your wife doesn't like golf social interactions ?
[/quote]

I'm either working or playing golf, and my wife has things she likes to do -- we are both happy.

[drewpt]

I'll throw my two cents in.

Golf struggles because it's perceived as a rich country club game (not a sport)- the rise of Tiger changed that perception but his demise has since hurt the game.

As a kid, I was able to grab my basketball or football and go find an open grass area or basketball court at the park and play for hours - for FREE. It's also heavily televised in the states with millions of marketing dollars poured into it promoting their stars.

For years, my Country Club/Attorney uncle tried to get me to play golf. I always turned him down by saying, "its not a sport - it's just a game people play for fun." It wasn't until he bought me my first set of used clubs and brought me to his CC for a lesson did I fall in love with the game. The vast majority of kids don't have that family member/resource to introduce them to this game we all love.

Golf is very expensive - here in L.A., the crappy muni courses cost $50+ to play 18 holes. What 15 year old has this kind of cash to burn? Hell, most adults in the US don't have that kind of disposable income.

[Soloman1]

Tiger will be sad to hear of his demise...

[Georgie Z]

While this is unfortunate for those in the industry, i have felt no effect of this and don't mind having less 5 hour rounds

[dan360]

Perhaps if they allowed themselves more than 5 minutes to look for lost players, so many more would not quit.

[ruascott]

[quote name='Ted Williams' timestamp='1444586406' post='12442180']
I'm just not seeing any folks under 30 anymore. And this goes for juniors as well, that whole age segment has vanished

I remember in my youth how our parents would drop us off at the course and we would play all day long. Easily had to be 30 plus juniors on the course every summer day

Not Happening anymore. The senior leagues are all alive and kicking (for now ) -and take up about 70% of golf course play IMHO
[/quote]

I'm not seeing that. Over half the members at our club are under 40, and a lot are under 30.

I also looked up our state's junior tour, as I played on it 20 years ago....it's bigger now than it was then. More tourneys, more courses, etc...

[cxx]

In the late 80's early 90's courses were packed. There was a real and significant shortage of courses relative to those who wanted to play. There was a tremendous build out of all kinds of golf courses, resorts and residential, which overshot the demand. I'm not sure if someone has the stats handy, like the National Golf Foundation, but I'm sure you could see the huge bulge in golf course opening dates. It took a long time before it really caught up with the builders maybe around 2000 or 2005.

It is a hard game and some get discouraged and fall by the wayside. Youth golf is going strong around here. I see lots of people of all ages playing, just not as many as before. If I were to guess it would be the 30-40 year olds that are under represented. I see a lot of 45 and up and a lot of 20 somethings and lots of kids. Hopefully the younger ones will stick with it.

[ilikegolf26]

[quote name='cxx' timestamp='1445003703' post='12464360']
In the late 80's early 90's courses were packed. There was a real and significant shortage of courses relative to those who wanted to play. There was a tremendous build out of all kinds of golf courses, resorts and residential, which overshot the demand. I'm not sure if someone has the stats handy, like the National Golf Foundation, but I'm sure you could see the huge bulge in golf course opening dates. It took a long time before it really caught up with the builders maybe around 2000 or 2005.

It is a hard game and some get discouraged and fall by the wayside. Youth golf is going strong around here. I see lots of people of all ages playing, just not as many as before. If I were to guess it would be the 30-40 year olds that are under represented. I see a lot of 45 and up and a lot of 20 somethings and lots of kids. Hopefully the younger ones will stick with it.
[/quote]So the people that have been hit hardest in this economy are the ones not playing. There is just not a lot of extra money right now for people in their late 20s/30s who graduated college at the worst point ever to spend on golf/equipment.

[DevilDog]

[quote name='cxx' timestamp='1445003703' post='12464360']
In the late 80's early 90's courses were packed. There was a real and significant shortage of courses relative to those who wanted to play. There was a tremendous build out of all kinds of golf courses, resorts and residential, which overshot the demand. I'm not sure if someone has the stats handy, like the National Golf Foundation, but I'm sure you could see the huge bulge in golf course opening dates. It took a long time before it really caught up with the builders maybe around 2000 or 2005.

It is a hard game and some get discouraged and fall by the wayside. Youth golf is going strong around here. I see lots of people of all ages playing, just not as many as before. If I were to guess it would be the 30-40 year olds that are under represented. I see a lot of 45 and up and a lot of 20 somethings and lots of kids. Hopefully the younger ones will stick with it.
[/quote]

Was a course explosion around where I live in the late 80s and into the late 90s. In 1990, the area where I live had 2 private clubs and 4 munis. Since then, a RTJ Trail course opened in 1992 with 2 courses or 36 holes, 2 private clubs opened in the area adding 36 more holes opened late 90s, 4 other daily fee courses also opened in the area late 90s, early 00s, adding 72 more. More than double the courses yet the population went up maybe 8-12% total in that time frame. Up until this last economic downturn, these courses were packed all the time. Now, they are hardly ever that busy though there are some signs of recovery.

I agree that the 30-40 year olds are underrepresented but I think it is economy related in that these are usually people with young children and money can be tight for golf because of that. A lot of junior players at my home course. Like you said, I hope they stick with it.

[Psyber]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1398470642' post='9172279']
[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1398468777' post='9172127']
The decline in the numbers of golfers and rounds played over the last 20 years is most likely a combination of reasons. Over weight people can play golf. Obese people cannot. The number of obese people has doubled to over 35% in the last 20 years, so I think it's entirely reasonable to say that 35% of adults are no longer in the pool of prospective golfers.
[/quote]

The definition of obese is only something like 40-50 lbs
overweight. There are plenty of obese people golfing.
[/quote]
ONLY 40-50 lbs? 40-50lbs is a lot of extra baggage to be carrying with you.

[Bingo1976]

[quote name='ilikegolf26' timestamp='1444654593' post='12444790']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1444653672' post='12444738']
You guys bring up a lot of great points with the changes in household dynamics and distractions of technology.

One more issue that I'd like to mention is what I call the wussification of America. This is the idea that every kid is a winner and should get a trophy just for participation. Parents don't want their kids to fail anymore. Golf is a complete antithesis of this ideology. Every player is going to fail most of the time with golf. I go to my nieces and nephews soccer games and tee ball games and they don't even keep score. Golf is hard. You don't have teammates that can mask other players inabilities. And the game is centered around keeping score so you know who is the winner and who is the loser.

The fear of losing has completely over taken desire of winning.
[/quote]

This is a very good post and exactly true.
[/quote]

Not sure I agree. Golf is one of the few sports that you can play on your own, no need to keep score or maintain a handicap if you don't want to. No one is going to dunk in your face or pitch an unhittable fast ball - if you want a wusses game, golf is it.

What is more likely is kids don't have the attention or time to spend hours on a game like golf, where gratification is slow and hard won

[quackhead]

Locally, there are a couple really nice executive courses, with nice restaurant/bar to hang out in after 18 holes. I think if golf revamped executive courses around the country, more people would take an interest in the game.

[Dan Drake]

One of the things that makes golf so great is that it can be different things to different people. IMHO, the diversification of the game is going to be what helps the game find it's equilibrium.

[Poor Posture]

Koreans are keeping my local courses busy. They love to play.

[JWells]

Golf is a dorky , boring, snobby, not to mention impossible sport, and you guys are seriously having this long of a discussion on why it isn't popular with the under 30 crowd? Get real

[ilikegolf26]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1445315855' post='12480958']
[quote name='ilikegolf26' timestamp='1444654593' post='12444790']
[quote name='Llortamaisey' timestamp='1444653672' post='12444738']
You guys bring up a lot of great points with the changes in household dynamics and distractions of technology.

One more issue that I'd like to mention is what I call the wussification of America. This is the idea that every kid is a winner and should get a trophy just for participation. Parents don't want their kids to fail anymore. Golf is a complete antithesis of this ideology. Every player is going to fail most of the time with golf. I go to my nieces and nephews soccer games and tee ball games and they don't even keep score. Golf is hard. You don't have teammates that can mask other players inabilities. And the game is centered around keeping score so you know who is the winner and who is the loser.

The fear of losing has completely over taken desire of winning.
[/quote]

This is a very good post and exactly true.
[/quote]

Not sure I agree. Golf is one of the few sports that you can play on your own, no need to keep score or maintain a handicap if you don't want to. No one is going to dunk in your face or pitch an unhittable fast ball - if you want a wusses game, golf is it.

What is more likely is kids don't have the attention or time to spend hours on a game like golf, where gratification is slow and hard won
[/quote]

I know of plenty of little leagues for baseball and soccer that don't keep score. I don't know any junior golf tournaments that don't. There is always a winner in a junior golf tournament and a bunch of losers. Now if we are just talking about going out by yourself on a summer afternoon and hacking it around you have a point but I would then compare that with just going to the batting cages or playing home run derby or a pickup game in the backyard with friends.

[Sky High Handicap]

Golf, along with Baseball, suffers from being a slow-paced game that requires a certain amount of physical skill and practice to really enjoy; and very few young people today are willing to play a slow-paced game that they aren't able to get good at in a short amount of time. They want to be able to brag and trash talk about their "skills". Golf isn't easy to play well, and bragging and trash talking are highly frowned upon. It will become more and more a pastime mostly enjoyed by older people; and then once they die out, so will Golf for the most part.

Being good at Football, Basketball, or even Baseball does not equate to being good at Golf. Many young people who are strong, tall, or fast can pick up those sports pretty quickly, but they are humbled when they attempt Golf. Plus, they grew up playing Street versions of those 3 sports for FREE, but not Golf. Golf requires Funding.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Psyber' timestamp='1445295139' post='12479312']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1398470642' post='9172279']
[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1398468777' post='9172127']
The decline in the numbers of golfers and rounds played over the last 20 years is most likely a combination of reasons. Over weight people can play golf. Obese people cannot. The number of obese people has doubled to over 35% in the last 20 years, so I think it's entirely reasonable to say that 35% of adults are no longer in the pool of prospective golfers.
[/quote]

The definition of obese is only something like 40-50 lbs
overweight. There are plenty of obese people golfing.
[/quote]
ONLY 40-50 lbs? 40-50lbs is a lot of extra baggage to be carrying with you.
[/quote]

LOL, I see people on the road who are 100-150 lbs overweight. 40-50 lbs
would be A LOT for me; for some people that's just water weight. I think
technically that would be called "morbidly obese".

[thug the bunny]

[quote name='Sky High Handicap' timestamp='1448497109' post='12646778']
Golf, along with Baseball, suffers from being a slow-paced game that requires a certain amount of physical skill and practice to really enjoy; and very few young people today are willing to play a slow-paced game that they aren't able to get good at in a short amount of time. They want to be able to brag and trash talk about their "skills". Golf isn't easy to play well, and bragging and trash talking are highly frowned upon. [b]It will become more and more a pastime mostly enjoyed by older people; and then once they die out, so will Golf for the most part.[/b]

Being good at Football, Basketball, or even Baseball does not equate to being good at Golf. Many young people who are strong, tall, or fast can pick up those sports pretty quickly, but they are humbled when they attempt Golf. Plus, they grew up playing Street versions of those 3 sports for FREE, but not Golf. Golf requires Funding.
[/quote]

Nope. Golf will never die. I think football will die before golf (OMG! Sacrilege!) 100 yrs down the road. As it should be...

[ChickenHead415]

Every good to great course in the Chicago area is packed on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. I see how the old Country Club model is dying but in terms of quality public & semi public courses going by the wayside, no chance, no how.

Thunderhawk, Mistwood, Harborside, Stonewall Orchard, Indian Lakes, Cog Hill, Ruffled Feathers ... always crowded. And the feeling that kids to 20 somethings aren't playing anymore, I think that's a false assumption .. I'm 30, I play with a rotating group of guys 10+ guys age range from 24-35 and we all have posted 40+ rounds this year.

[deathbymuffin]

IMO, it's greens fees more than anything else. Most everyone can afford a decent set of used clubs. In my area it costs around $40-50 to play 18 holes at the crappiest muni tracks in town. I have two young kids and a wife in grad school and it isn't feasible at all for me to play more than a couple rounds/month.

[maverick]

I disagree about green fees. It's just that people do not have the disposable income they used to have. I can walk and play for one dollar per hole. Our minimum wage has been stagnant for way too long. Too many jobs go overseas. Too many factories are shuttered. Technically we have never recovered from the 2007 crash. Remember if your unemployment benefits run out you are not counted as unemployed! Statistically 39% of our work force are unemployed. As a Disabled Veteran I received zero increase this year along with zero increase for Social Security Benefits which I did pay into for decades. But the rich keep getting richer.

[Anaheim944]

For youngsters its not a topic of conversation. There are way too many other things to do, entertain you or concern yourself with at a young age. So why would you play when you become an adult? I went to the same high school Tiger Woods went to a few years after he did and I dont remember golf ever coming up in a conversation. I only found out the school has/ had a golf team recently because a guy a play with was on the school team. Thats coming from a guy who played basketball football and ran track in high school.

I dont think itll ever go away but I dont see things turning around either. There are too many things to occupy your time with nowadays. There is nothing wrong with that.I enjoy the game, this is what I do. I dont need the world to enjoy it with me. Id like more of my buddies too but oh well.

The greens fees can be too much for a person to afford regularly as well. $75 to go walk around the grass for 4 hours (x4 if you go every weekend) haha. I dont see it like that but I get the arguement. One can easily find a better use for that money. Especially with the cost of everything here in California.

Lets not even get into the pay and shrinking middle class...

But ya the game is fine IMO. Shrinking but oh well.

[maverick]

Hopefully new players will emerge. One other problem I forgot is the time younger people have to first 'learn' the game, then try and master it. My son has a set of clubs for over a year and they look brand new. He just does not have the time for golf, unfortunately that's today's reality. I do see younger people at the local muni and people who look like they never played getting lessons. I agree green fees have been high but now they are dropping. I would hate to see golf go back to the era of being an upper class game. I'm still optimistic things will get better. Golf certainly have some great lessons to take away from the course.

[EKELLY]

Several courses in my area (Tampa) are slowly headed towards bankruptcy. The problem , I believe, is too many courses. When you have 30 courses in a 20 mile area, they'll low ball rates to the point of losing money, "but hoping to sell enough food/beverage" to pay the light bill........Not how to run a business.....

[Swingless]

In my area there are MANY great courses and MANY golfers. I don't see the demise of the sport in my area at all. Of all ages, too. Kids as young as 3 at the driving ranges, and many young teens at the courses. It's awesome to see.

I recently brought all three of my kids to Golf and especially my 8 year old son, LOVES it. Happily, even though there are some amazing courses around me that cost a mint, there are also quite a few that aren't expensive at all and are rather well maintained. Our preferred course right now costs $15 to walk 9 and kids under 12 are free with a paying adult. The cost goes up to $20 in the spring and summer months. It's a steal.

[glm]

These days more people would rather have a cell phone in there hand than a golf club and that is sad in my opinion.