Pure745's 2015 Shootout - 915 D4 Trackman #'s Added

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='rymail00' timestamp='1420167688' post='10672639']
Tai,

Cool Clubs did all your club work for the clubs in you'd bag now, right? Do they do club builds for clubs not bought through them? I looked at their site but their pricing is only on fittings. This makes me think they probably don't do outside work. So that's my question.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Yes they do.

[SullyCCC]

Any new updates on driver stats. Ready to buy new driver.

[Pure745]

Had a practice match against another club today and decided to put the Flex in play to see how it did in a competitive round.. Needless to say, it is out of the bag till the Shootout and possible much longer. Good for good it is insanely long, but barely off center is very wild.

[JJK947]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1420329115' post='10681239']
Had a practice match against another club today and decided to put the Flex in play to see how it did in a competitive round.. Needless to say, it is out of the bag till the Shootout and possible much longer. Good for good it is insanely long, but barely off center is very wild.
[/quote]

Whoops. [size=4] [/size]

[size=4]Sounds like how my RFE ended up a year or two ago. The distance and numbers were pretty addicting but ultimately golf is about a little more than that. Hopefully the Flex just has a longer adjustment period.[/size]

[Albatross85]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1420329115' post='10681239']Had a practice match against another club today and decided to put the Flex in play to see how it did in a competitive round.. Needless to say, it is out of the bag till the Shootout and possible much longer. Good for good it is insanely long, but barely off center is very wild.[/quote]Sounds exactly like the sldr for me last year. Cut your losses and move on. Chasing numbers is asking for trouble. Try the pro. If it's good enough to make Rory switch it's got to be good!

My bet is on the vapor pro or R15 winning the shoutout.

[Tarheelnation3]

I'm waiting for your final results before I order my next driver (the "newest" one I picked up recently is now out of the bag after my round yesterday). Also, I'm hoping that putter turns out to be a "flop" so I can swoop in and snag it, haha. Keep up the great reviews my friend!

[GC70]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1420329115' post='10681239']
Had a practice match against another club today and decided to put the Flex in play to see how it did in a competitive round.. Needless to say, it is out of the bag till the Shootout and possible much longer. Good for good it is insanely long, but barely off center is very wild.
[/quote]
When will Nike make a diver that can make it in your bag? Maybe it's the Pro?

[wldchld22]

Maybe flipping the cartridge and adding some spin would help or go Pro like MN suggested.

Sounds like what happened to me with the cobra and TEE last year. Insanely far drives but misses were way worse.

[Yepyukon]

Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.

[wldchld22]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420336383' post='10681807']
[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.
[/quote]

I think it is great that all the shafts are the same. I think this will give most of us tinkerers a good starting point as to which head gives the best performance.

[Yepyukon]

[quote name='wldchld22' timestamp='1420337528' post='10681921']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420336383' post='10681807']
[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.
[/quote]

I think it is great that all the shafts are the same. I think this will give most of us tinkerers a good starting point as to which head gives the best performance.
[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do too. You have to limit the amount of variables as much as you can. I was just curious if he took that into account with the numbers. I would disagree about shafts not making that much of a difference though. If that is the case, why not do the shootout with stock shafts in all since that is how they are sold? Again, I am not trying to knock his testing as I think he does a great, non-bias job; it was just a question I had.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420337991' post='10681969']
[quote name='wldchld22' timestamp='1420337528' post='10681921']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420336383' post='10681807']
[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.
[/quote]

I think it is great that all the shafts are the same. I think this will give most of us tinkerers a good starting point as to which head gives the best performance.
[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do too. You have to limit the amount of variables as much as you can. I was just curious if he took that into account with the numbers. I would disagree about shafts not making that much of a difference though. If that is the case, why not do the shootout with stock shafts in all since that is how they are sold? Again, I am not trying to knock his testing as I think he does a great, non-bias job; it was just a question I had.
[/quote]

I don't think that it's a blanket statement when he says that the shaft doesn't make much of a difference.

Each particular swing needs a shaft of a certain profile to maximize the results. While each head may have a shaft that is a "perfect match," the shaft will still fall into a similar profile, if being swung by the same player. When comparing shafts of a similar profile (I.e. Rogue 125 and Speeder 757) the results shouldn't be different enough to fiddle around with finding the "perfect match" for each club head. Sticking with a trusted favorite is probably the best way to go, when you have done as much testing as Tai has.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420337991' post='10681969']
[quote name='wldchld22' timestamp='1420337528' post='10681921']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420336383' post='10681807']
[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.
[/quote]

I think it is great that all the shafts are the same. I think this will give most of us tinkerers a good starting point as to which head gives the best performance.
[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do too. You have to limit the amount of variables as much as you can. I was just curious if he took that into account with the numbers. I would disagree about shafts not making that much of a difference though. If that is the case, why not do the shootout with stock shafts in all since that is how they are sold? Again, I am not trying to knock his testing as I think he does a great, non-bias job; it was just a question I had.
[/quote]

I will clarify.... If he got fit for each head chances are the "fit" shaft would be a similar profile to what he is using. In other words I doubt he gets an ultra low/low in one head and a high/high in another like you are suggesting by going all stock. After he does the shootout and one head produces 3500 spin while another produces 2000 in similar lofts, I think it would be safe to assume that a shaft will not makeup the difference. If we see 1800/14/180 on head A and 2100/16/179 on head B, then yeah maybe he could get head B closer to head A. But is that really a "great advantage"?

[ThunderBuzzworth]

well that isn't what I was hoping to hear. Although my prediction now has a slightly better chance I guess. Tai, do you chalk it up to a bad driving day or is it a trend you are seeing with it through practice as well?

The shootout will at the very least still tell all of us which is long and wrong, which is short and accurate and which is all around the best for Tai. At the end of the day I still can't wait to see these all side by side

[Pure745]

[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420337991' post='10681969']
[quote name='wldchld22' timestamp='1420337528' post='10681921']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420336383' post='10681807']
[quote name='Yepyukon' timestamp='1420335456' post='10681733']
Thanks for doing the shootout, I had a blast reading your last one so please don't take this the wrong way. You have found a great combo with the rogue shaft in the SLDR head and are using that shaft for each of the heads being tested in the shootout. I get that you are trying to keep things as similar as possible, but by doing this you are also giving a great advantage to the SLDR.

I know it would be near impossible to to find the perfect match for each club before the shootout, so do you take that into consideration when you are looking at the numbers?
[/quote]

I hear what you are saying and I think you are getting a little too technical. Shafts don't make "that" much of a difference, chances are if he did find something better for each head it would be a similar profile and I doubt it would make the good shots any better. He might be able to improve the misses but probably not by much. Last year he only had the Rouge in one head and people predicted that other heads would have done better with it, so that's what he's doing.
[/quote]

I think it is great that all the shafts are the same. I think this will give most of us tinkerers a good starting point as to which head gives the best performance.
[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong, I do too. You have to limit the amount of variables as much as you can. I was just curious if he took that into account with the numbers. I would disagree about shafts not making that much of a difference though. If that is the case, why not do the shootout with stock shafts in all since that is how they are sold? Again, I am not trying to knock his testing as I think he does a great, non-bias job; it was just a question I had.
[/quote]

With my experiences with higher end fittings (Cool Clubs and The Oven), typically it is a great process of elimination. Basically you spend most of your time narrowing your options down to the best few. In both experiences there are generally a few really good options with one being the best. When I did last year's Shootout I was mainly planning on using the Graphite Design BB because I had it for most heads. The Rogue 125 was a late entry, and ended up working so well it won. I realized it was going to receive some negative reactions since it wasn't used across all heads, but it worked the best and I wasn't going to drive myself crazy trying to find 5 more shafts to test when I already had a club that worked on the golf course. Doing this with stock shafts as you mentioned would be great if I was fit to a stock shaft, but I wasn't, so the Rogue 125 will be the shaft used

This year, I am planning on having Rogue 125's in all of the heads I test during the Shootout. Please keep in mind that my full time job is not in the golf industry, I'm not a fitter at a retail store or club and I'm also not a media outlet. I started doing this years ago on my own dime and documented my findings as honest as possible on here so that it would help those that were interested in my findings, the type of information that I was not getting by reading some of the "reviews" on here and other sites.

[quote name='ThunderBuzzworth' timestamp='1420341873' post='10682259']
well that isn't what I was hoping to hear. Although my prediction now has a slightly better chance I guess. Tai, do you chalk it up to a bad driving day or is it a trend you are seeing with it through practice as well?

The shootout will at the very least still tell all of us which is long and wrong, which is short and accurate and which is all around the best for Tai. At the end of the day I still can't wait to see these all side by side
[/quote]

Definitely wasn't [i]just [/i]a bad driving day. I have about 5 rounds and range time in so far with the Flex and to have the misses I have with this club are just not going to work for me. All I can say is that I'm really happy that today was just a practice match, because I got drummed, and the Flex cost me a lot of shots off the tee and won't be in the bag till the Shootout. I gave my feedback to someone at Nike and their feedback was that Rory experienced the similar issues with the Flex and that is why he is in the Pro head. Low spin plus BS in the 180 range = wild misses but extremely long good for good. I will probably be adding the Pro to the shootout as well. I think the Flex will be an AMAZING club for some and definitely worth trying, but I think it will also be a tough fit for some as well. It is very low spinning, and when I'm slightly off center, it's ugly

[chriswrightstuff]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1420355721' post='10682967']
I gave my feedback to someone at Nike and their feedback was that Rory experienced the similar issues with the Flex and that is why he is in the Pro head. Low spin plus BS in the 180 range = wild misses but extremely long good for good. I will probably be adding the Pro to the shootout as well. I think the Flex will be an AMAZING club for some and definitely worth trying, but I think it will also be a tough fit for some as well. It is very low spinning, and when I'm slightly off center, it's ugly
[/quote]

The flex was never really on my radar until I read about the Oven Vapor trip, was always leaning towards the pro. By the sounds of things it has now flown off the radar, I'll still give it a hit but the impression I get is that the Flex is great when good and horrific when bad, I think I'd be seeing too many horror shows with it my hands. WIll be interested in your thoughts on the Pro, looking forward to it.

[Aviador Naval]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1420355721' post='10682967']
Definitely wasn't [i]just [/i]a bad driving day. I have about 5 rounds and range time in so far with the Flex and to have the misses I have with this club are just not going to work for me. All I can say is that I'm really happy that today was just a practice match, because I got drummed, and the Flex cost me a lot of shots off the tee and won't be in the bag till the Shootout. I gave my feedback to someone at Nike and their feedback was that Rory experienced the similar issues with the Flex and that is why he is in the Pro head. Low spin plus BS in the 180 range = wild misses but extremely long good for good. I will probably be adding the Pro to the shootout as well. I think the Flex will be an AMAZING club for some and definitely worth trying, but I think it will also be a tough fit for some as well. It is very low spinning, and when I'm slightly off center, it's ugly
[/quote]

Can you elaborate a bit on the 'wild misses'?

Are they more or less straight knuckleballs that fall out of the sky, do they bring big right and/or left into play, or all of the above?

[Jag80]

I'm curious what you call "wild misses" also. To a high HC, that means duck hooks, big slices, etc. To a low HC does this mean you missed your line by 5-10 yards? Were you playing a draw and you over hooked it?

[SwooshLT]

Tai.....the misses you speak of......both ways or just too much of cut?

[scratchswinger]

"Wild Misses" means your somewhere that you should not be, not a 10 yard pull. Tigers "wild misses" are in the Pacific on 18 at Pebble. Rory's "wild miss" is in the cabins on 10 at Augusta.

[Aviador Naval]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420384117' post='10683593']
"Wild Misses" means your somewhere that you should not be, not a 10 yard pull. Tigers "wild misses" are in the Pacific on 18 at Pebble. Rory's "wild miss" is in the cabins on 10 at Augusta.
[/quote]

In no way trying to be argumentative, just technically curious at this point, but...

How does a head contribute that definition of a wild miss? It would seem to me that unless the head has some exotic new bulge/roll configuration or a really big non-symmetrical internal weight distribution, big misses like those would come down to: 1 - a really poor swing (which happens to everyone at some point...); 2 - a shaft that may not be well matched to the players swing dynamic; and, 3 - the head. Everybody make a bad pass on occasion and I think it fair to say it's unlikely that Tiger, Rory, and Pure are playing with poorly matched shafts. Thus, at what point does the head design come into play?

It seems that an 'un-optimized' head design would be one that would spit out knuckleballs on some misses and shots that spin like tops on others thereby making carry distances and desired ballflights hard to manage. Keep in mind, I don't personally have the game to assess this on my own so I'm merely speculating.

As mentioned in the first sentence, I'm not trying to be 'that guy'. Just trying to understand at what point the physics package of the head plays a role that matters in determining 'misses' and at what point is it simply along for the ride.

[TheKrushh]

Pure,
really cool that you're doing this and my wife greatly appreciates the info (I don't have to buy EVERYthing ). It's also great to actually get the real info, it seems like review sites give everyone 4.5 and the one that has the most hype gets 5 stars.

I don't necessarily understand the bad miss questions everyone is having. Some drivers seem like you can hit the ball on different parts of the face with different swings and they all go relatively straight. Others always seem like any little miss and all of a sudden you're hitting big slices and wild hooks. I feel like that's pretty standard when trying new equipment...

Based on what I've hit and how well the SLDR worked last year for me, the R15 will do very well in your shootout. I used the same shaft and dropped the loft by a degree and got the same launch with about 6 extra yards and 200 RPM's less spin. It feels REALLY good and I love the 460 black.

Good luck! ETA?

[J13]

Okay Tiger Woods, Rory Mcilroy, and Pure were just all lumped together. Let's get back to reality here as this is getting weird again.

Misses are misses and wild misses are a disaster. Doesn't matter which direction they land. This might be the reason the Flex isn't in any bags and also why they chose to release the Pro model.

[Kylekoz17]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1420386546' post='10683733']
Okay Tiger Woods, Rory Mcilroy, and Pure were just all lumped together. Let's get back to reality here as this it's getting weird again.

Misses are misses and wild misses are a disaster. Doesn't matter which direction they land. This might be the reason the Flex isn't in any bags and also why they chose to release the Pro model.
[/quote]

The fact that the flex is a smaller head plays a big role in the exaggerated misses. It became really apparent to me when I went from a sldr 460 to an old VR tour late last year to prepare funds for this year's drivers. It is very hard to hit a straight ball with the smaller head and the misses are obviously way worse. The bigger 460 heads just want to go straighter so it's not a surprise that with pure being so comfortable with the sldr that he might have some control issues with the smaller head and low spin. I'm sure that is why most guys on tour are playing the bigger heads.

[eldog-in-the-hizouse]

This is an incredible thread, and it's great to tie in with the Oven trip thread. It's been intriguing to read about really good players like Pure and Swanry having been fitted best and/or choosing the Flex over the Pro. My impression was that Nike had the two bases covered with the Speed head and the Pro head, and the Flex head could easily slip into the mad scientist Frankenstein type club that ended up being unpopular because there was not real benefit to it over either the Pro or the Speed. Other reviews I saw and read of the Flex kind of supported that. It's going to be fun to see how all of this plays out with the other companies' drivers as well as Nike's as Pure adds the Pro to the testing.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Aviador Naval' timestamp='1420385483' post='10683661']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420384117' post='10683593']
"Wild Misses" means your somewhere that you should not be, not a 10 yard pull. Tigers "wild misses" are in the Pacific on 18 at Pebble. Rory's "wild miss" is in the cabins on 10 at Augusta.
[/quote]

In no way trying to be argumentative, just technically curious at this point, but...

How does a head contribute that definition of a wild miss? It would seem to me that unless the head has some exotic new bulge/roll configuration or a really big non-symmetrical internal weight distribution, big misses like those would come down to: 1 - a really poor swing (which happens to everyone at some point...); 2 - a shaft that may not be well matched to the players swing dynamic; and, 3 - the head. Everybody make a bad pass on occasion and I think it fair to say it's unlikely that Tiger, Rory, and Pure are playing with poorly matched shafts. Thus, at what point does the head design come into play?

It seems that an 'un-optimized' head design would be one that would spit out knuckleballs on some misses and shots that spin like tops on others thereby making carry distances and desired ballflights hard to manage. Keep in mind, I don't personally have the game to assess this on my own so I'm merely speculating.

As mentioned in the first sentence, I'm not trying to be 'that guy'. Just trying to understand at what point the physics package of the head plays a role that matters in determining 'misses' and at what point is it simply along for the ride.
[/quote]

My point in regards to Rory, TW is that their "wild miss" is no different than a +1, 3, or 20 handis wild miss.... They all end up in the houses, ocean, or desert, the high ball speed guys miss just goes further. So that means further left and further right. Yeah lower spin means less control, I don't know if that is Pures issue or something else. I can tell you from my experience when I played the 430 it was very low spin and if my face was not square to it's intended angle because of the low spin the miss would be exaggerated than it was with the 913 I was testing it against. During a round if I hit one or two of these misses it could easily be remembered on the next tee... Golf is played between the ears more than it is by getting 17/1700 on Trackman. Pure is smart to perform his shootout on the course in rounds that matter and then confirmed on Trackman.

[Aviador Naval]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1420390511' post='10684021']
... Yeah lower spin means less control, I don't know if that is Pures issue or something else. I can tell you from my experience when I played the 430 it was very low spin and if my face was not square to it's intended angle because of the low spin the miss would be exaggerated than it was with the 913 I was testing it against...
[/quote]

Concur with that entire post (especially the part about golf being played between the ears...) but this is the line fixed my disconnect. Not sure why, but I immediately jumped on "little miss" to mean off center contact and completely ignored face to path alignment.

Next time I'll drink more coffee or take another tug on the come-along as I try to pull my head out my...

[Stonebridge]

Sounds like the Pro will be the best on the course and the Flex on the range.

[Pure745]

I guess I should have been a little more specific when mentioning "wild miss". My index ranges from a +2 to a 1, and is pretty accurate and includes over 30 tournament rounds this year, not counting probably about the same number of competitive rounds that are not posted as "tournament rounds". I know the difference between a shot that is the result of a bad swing with any driver, and the bad swing that should end up somewhere in the rough just off the fairway. A wild miss, is one that has been going both ways, and very exaggerated. I'm not sure where station2station's post went, but he summed it up perfectly.. my misses have been really low spin hooks that aren't necessarily far offline but they hit the ground hot and run, the other is a knuckleball right that just keeps going and won't hold my intended line.

I will definitely be posting actual data on all of these drivers, but the most important part for me is to see what the clubs do outside on Trackman where I can see the ball flight and dispersion, or on the golf course. I will be sure to put more information about me and current state of my game when the actual shootout writeup goes up, but finding a club that helps me play my best golf in tournament or competitive rounds is priority number one. Thanks for the comments everyone, I enjoy the dialogue and I hope that as a result of my experiences documented in this thread, I find a great driver setup for 2015