Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Another putter, Biggie?? Well, it must be something really special, so you've piqued my curiosity.

 

Is it a Hiro Matsumoto? Yamada? Or Ninja Master?

[Bigmean]

Another putter, Biggie?? Well, it must be something really special, so you've piqued my curiosity.

 

Is it a Hiro Matsumoto? Yamada? Or Ninja Master?

 

You know, I really try hard to buy them right, and I fell like I can always sell off my collection for +/- 10% after all fees etc, and lately I have been really focusing on things that are limited etc and have a better chance of appreciating. Since I am doing it, I am going to grab a HIro I want that is $80 just because I like the look, I am going through the effort of shipping, but no Yamada in my collection or future as of yet......I will let you know after it ends which is soon....

[Nard_S]

3riC you can get a good sense of what shortening your driver shaft will do by simply gripping it shorter...

 

but i thought the swing weight is different with a shorter club vs choking it down with your grip

 

 

Choking down or cutting the shaft just at the butt does effect swing weight probably by 1 point minimum. Cutting at the butt or tip alone effects the frequency too. Proper trimming requires a portion at the tip and larger portion at the butt be cut to match frequency that was present prior to trimming.There's formulas for this stuff, Howard Jones knows a lot about this in the Clubmaking forum.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Another putter, Biggie?? Well, it must be something really special, so you've piqued my curiosity.

 

Is it a Hiro Matsumoto? Yamada? Or Ninja Master?

 

You know, I really try hard to buy them right, and I fell like I can always sell off my collection for +/- 10% after all fees etc, and lately I have been really focusing on things that are limited etc and have a better chance of appreciating. Since I am doing it, I am going to grab a HIro I want that is $80 just because I like the look, I am going through the effort of shipping, but no Yamada in my collection or future as of yet......I will let you know after it ends which is soon....

 

Hey, good luck, and if you need some help y on an auction in the future, let me know.

[mahonie]

DeNinny, my point was that my Mac CB has the same topline/sole as my MP4s but to accommodate the cavity and the muscle pad low on the face, there is hardly any metal behind the ball high on the face and it is the most punishing club when hit high on the face. The Mizzy is comparatively thicker high up and gives better results.

 

Sorry, I understand what you are describing now and was confused as to which club you referred to as thin walled high up. In my mind it is always a blade relative to its lower thicker muscle. Oops and yes based on your description whatever club has the thinner mass behind the ball will for sure be the more punishing when impacted there.

 

And to further your point, you also need to consider the hosel attachment itself when talking about contact up high on the face. You *may* find that your CB actually has a thinner overall hosel attachment as compared to a blade where the muscle itself helps to really reinforce the head connection to the shaft. This connection strength will become more important, the higher up on the face you contact the ball because that high up will tend to twist the face in the upward direction and the only thing that holds it in place is the hosel connection. So *maybe* some of the issue is also based on the hosel connection strength in addition to the thinner face wall at the upper part of it. A weaker connection will basically not be as stable at impact.

 

I'm just really surprised that it matters up that high on the face since up there is when the sole is low enough to already be in the ground. To me that miss hit sucks regardless of the head type.

 

I can get that miss at will lol...particularly a mid-short iron off a tee or if the ball is sitting up in the rough ;-)

[NRJyzr]

DeNinny, my point was that my Mac CB has the same topline/sole as my MP4s but to accommodate the cavity and the muscle pad low on the face, there is hardly any metal behind the ball high on the face and it is the most punishing club when hit high on the face. The Mizzy is comparatively thicker high up and gives better results.

 

Sorry, I understand what you are describing now and was confused as to which club you referred to as thin walled high up. In my mind it is always a blade relative to its lower thicker muscle. Oops and yes based on your description whatever club has the thinner mass behind the ball will for sure be the more punishing when impacted there.

 

And to further your point, you also need to consider the hosel attachment itself when talking about contact up high on the face. You *may* find that your CB actually has a thinner overall hosel attachment as compared to a blade where the muscle itself helps to really reinforce the head connection to the shaft. This connection strength will become more important, the higher up on the face you contact the ball because that high up will tend to twist the face in the upward direction and the only thing that holds it in place is the hosel connection. So *maybe* some of the issue is also based on the hosel connection strength in addition to the thinner face wall at the upper part of it. A weaker connection will basically not be as stable at impact.

 

I'm just really surprised that it matters up that high on the face since up there is when the sole is low enough to already be in the ground. To me that miss hit sucks regardless of the head type.

 

I can get that miss at will lol...particularly a mid-short iron off a tee or if the ball is sitting up in the rough ;-)

 

I have a particularly annoying time with that miss when hitting wedges out of rough, where the ball is sitting up slightly. I know what the lie and situation are, and I can't help but slap it high off the clubface.

 

<sigh>

[mahonie]

DeNinny, my point was that my Mac CB has the same topline/sole as my MP4s but to accommodate the cavity and the muscle pad low on the face, there is hardly any metal behind the ball high on the face and it is the most punishing club when hit high on the face. The Mizzy is comparatively thicker high up and gives better results.

 

Sorry, I understand what you are describing now and was confused as to which club you referred to as thin walled high up. In my mind it is always a blade relative to its lower thicker muscle. Oops and yes based on your description whatever club has the thinner mass behind the ball will for sure be the more punishing when impacted there.

 

And to further your point, you also need to consider the hosel attachment itself when talking about contact up high on the face. You *may* find that your CB actually has a thinner overall hosel attachment as compared to a blade where the muscle itself helps to really reinforce the head connection to the shaft. This connection strength will become more important, the higher up on the face you contact the ball because that high up will tend to twist the face in the upward direction and the only thing that holds it in place is the hosel connection. So *maybe* some of the issue is also based on the hosel connection strength in addition to the thinner face wall at the upper part of it. A weaker connection will basically not be as stable at impact.

 

I'm just really surprised that it matters up that high on the face since up there is when the sole is low enough to already be in the ground. To me that miss hit sucks regardless of the head type.

 

I can get that miss at will lol...particularly a mid-short iron off a tee or if the ball is sitting up in the rough ;-)

 

I have a particularly annoying time with that miss when hitting wedges out of rough, where the ball is sitting up slightly. I know what the lie and situation are, and I can't help but slap it high off the clubface.

 

<sigh>

 

I have been known to take a diner plate sized divot from the middle of the fairway in order to find that really dead spot high on the face #getabitsteepsometimes

[DeNinny]

LMAO mahonie/NRJ 'dinner plate'. I call them 'beaver pelts'. In the peak of rainy season with the ground a virtual bog, often I will swing hard and literally sink a few mm into the ground and proceed to hit high on the face just after the beginning of a divot that ends up as long as my forearm.

 

And LOL just last week the rough was so high it was up to my ankles. "Fortunately", with winter rules I can place the ball on a tuft of grass but then the ball is 6" higher than normal. With those shots I feel lucky to miss hit it high! And LMAO given that the results are horrible, it never occurred to me that a blade face is "forgiving" compared to mahonie's Mac CBs!

[JustPark]

Bought a brand new set of MP-25 in the winter. Just traded the unused set for Miura CB-501 (heads only + cash) and am on my way out to put on an old set of C-taper shafts. Cannot wait.

[Sir edward of putternut]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

[Bigmean]

NCN, you are my man in Japan, I will never be shy to pm you questions when the waters get rough navigating the internets of the land of samarai.

 

Big golf day for the bigmean....first, I won the auction as only bidder. The putter that I got is an epon Zen. Not much on it but it comes up with some images via google. It is an 8802 style with a hammered flange, sick subtle rising sun milling effect coming from the sweet spot that has horizontal mills, 300 made with no intentions of another production run and by far epons sweetest putter (well, they don't make many) and word on the street is she feels Nicey nice. I am also working on a deal for a xenon mini that I am pretty excited about, and I am not sure if I want to go HAM on one more auction putter, or scoop up a few for the same price like a hiro and kitada. I feel compelled to grab a kitada head for the $160 the one guy sells them for.

 

I also snuck out and played today....it was a serious wind, and I played with a buddy from 2 up, it was a fun round, decent course, greens were sketchy though. First round with the V4s, and shot 36/38....I was a par machine. Had 2 birdies and a double on front, and 2 bogies on back and holy crap was it so nice to just coast on the par train. Now before deninny or dogflog get too excited, this is 100% fruits of the single 2 hour lesson I got with new guy, but massive confidence in the wilsons after today from a mental aspect regardless. My driver is the reason I didn't break par, but to be fair, it was also the reason I scored so well. I am more and more coming to the conclusion that my rounds live and die by that club. Ironplay was fine, I hit 11 greens, but my God the chipping hour of the lesson. I have mentioned how I have struggled with chip yips, and I totally skilled ONE which resulted in a bogey, but save for that and I was up and down a lot. Didn't make any long putts, but didn't miss any inside 8 ft (used the masda studio today). Just a well put together round. Started off leaking to right and after 2 I got away with a coup,e pars and started more comfortably committing to the swing thoughts and quiet hands. I don't have it down, I had a lot of miscues, but they were all so containable and able to be dealt with. Really feeling super optimistic about the season and specifically my new teacher. I know when I settled in I was probably not doing what I need to all the way, but it was at least not my old transition/habits either and sort of half of both. The less handsy chipping though, I mean the greens were slow so easy to chip at, but still, even with a skulled chip, the consistency was crazy and I was within 5ft from everywhere. So super pumped in general about golf today....

 

Now to spend the evening finding more things on auction because I can't ship back a single item, that would be insane :)

 

Bought a brand new set of MP-25 in the winter. Just traded the unused set for Miura CB-501 (heads only + cash) and am on my way out to put on an old set of C-taper shafts. Cannot wait.

 

Good deal!

[DeNinny]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

 

I would start with BIG STU via PM if he doesn't chime in. He is our Muirfield/Mac guru.

[NRJyzr]

Muirfields... have a set. The 80s version of the 1967 VIP blades, made from 83-86. Good feel, slightly better than Wilson Staff, not quite at Mizuno level. Sole is a bit wider than many blades of the era, but probably only as wide as Palmer Standards, and they appear to have a bit more bounce than was usual for clubs in this time. Quality stick, fairly compact. Topline is thicker than something like my Rams, but that's not saying much. LOL Don't go hitting these out on the toe, there's not much out there.

 

Hogan Black Cameo are one of the two Apex II sets. I don't know that there's any difference between black and white cameo, the Hoganistas in the Classic folders would be able to help. Word is the Apex II were Ben Hogan's favorite iron set throughout the history of the company. Kind of says a lot. Such as I remember from hitting them 16 years ago, they're larger than something like the Muirfields or Golden Rams. Have never had a set, can't speak to their general playability. If you'd be wanting to reshaft, it's worth noting they will have pinned shafts.

[Bigmean]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

 

I would start with BIG STU via PM if he doesn't chime in. He is our Muirfield/Mac guru.

 

Miurfields look awesome and ooze throwback. Admittedly I never really fell in love with many hogans, so miurfields get my vote.

[DeNinny]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

 

I would start with BIG STU via PM if he doesn't chime in. He is our Muirfield/Mac guru.

 

Miurfields look awesome and ooze throwback. Admittedly I never really fell in love with many hogans, so miurfields get my vote.

 

The Nicklaus 20th Anniversary Mac Miurfield is such an awesome design. Just perfect. Admittedly it seems that no matter what blade, I have something to nitpick with Hogans. I say Nicklaus Miurfields FTW.

[A.Princey]

Just bought a set of MP-5's, not pure blades, but as BLADE as I am going to get barring some miracle elevation in my skills...

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Nice looking putter the Epon Zen is, Biggie.

I recently picked up an Odyssey #9 Pro after realising that heel shafted, toe-weighted half mallets suit me the best.

Then I picked up this today:

 

 

To help fund it (it wasn't that expensive, but over $100) I sold off a few clubs including my Scotty Newport and Ping B60 BeCu. They were both tough to part with, but I get better results with heel-shafted half-mallets. I like the Wilson 8802 style of putters a lot, but I tend to pull them a bit too much. The toe-weighted half-mallet helps me hit it straight.

[Oldplayer]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

Not an expert on either but I do know one thing about those two models.

You better have very sound fundamentals.

These are old school enough to give you a great appreciation of the skills of good ballstrikers of he past.

Both have the reputation of punishing bad swings.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but you might as well know the truth. :)

Can you handle the truth??? :)

[Bigmean]

Duuuuude. The weapon to win series is on my radar, that is beautiful and has the perpendicular line I love on putters. If that was on auction now I would buy it as I have just sorta thought about trying a mallet type or too with this latest. That is the guy that started masda I am almost certain FWIW. I am not sure how masuda and masda work in Japanese, but those were akira putters and an awesome series. I just love putters.

 

Nard, I hit a few irons of note yesterday, but one worth real note. It was into a stead 15+ wind, I mean steady or harder. Hole was 178 into teeth pin in back. I hit a 5, granted I hit it well, but it went high, I am watching intently expecting it is getting beat up. Man it just kept going despite the Hieght and wind, one hops back of green and releases a yard into the collar. I don't know how it released, even in a dead wind, and I held greens fine all day, but man those 130s really held lines all day. I missed a few GIRs wind side yelling at the wind the whole time to take it. It is easy to say after shooting one of the best rounds I will all year, but I really liked the 130s. They have height that is strong is my best way to describe them now after yesterday.

 

Blades thread also has no catchy nickname and now no fancy username........we are clearly about the steak over here and not the sizzle.

[Bigmean]

Speaking of mallets, deninny. How do you like your bosa? The Japanese seem obsessed with piretti, or at least piretti sells more there than here for sure from what I can tell...I have thought about piretti hard every now and then. Eventually the goal,is at least one from all makers. There is an original piretti handmade on eBay forever, dude put like a 3 wood shaft in it, but that has been on watch list.

 

I am going to get a mallet...I have decided.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

BM - The Japanese love foreign things (and quality), You can see it with all the foreign cars (every second car here comes from Germany). It's understandable that they like Piretti. The Italian name just draws'em in. Funny thing though, I've never seen a Piretti in anyone's bag. It's all Scotty Cameron and the odd Bettinardi.

 

Meanwhile, I just set aside my Odyssey Rossie Whitehot that had been in the bag 16 years straight. Now I have about 5 very different putters I putt very similarly with. Putting has never been the problem... But, it's cheaper than seeing a head doctor.

[Sir edward of putternut]

Can someone give me some info on muirfields and hogan black cameos? Might get both for some vintage rounds here and there but wondering about feel, rep, etc

Not an expert on either but I do know one thing about those two models.

You better have very sound fundamentals.

These are old school enough to give you a great appreciation of the skills of good ballstrikers of he past.

Both have the reputation of punishing bad swings.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but you might as well know the truth. :)

Can you handle the truth??? :)

 

If the apex pc is any indication, apparently I not only can handle the truth, but game it as well (took a few bruises to the ego at first, but they did nothing but improve my swing in the long rub)

[Sir Slicealot]

I refer to my mega divots as pieces of real estate. If I'm in good spirits, I can actually ad lib a sales pitch before it hits the ground much to the amusement of those within earshot. "If I wasn't enjoying myself I'd have been a used club salesman three holes ago," is another favorite.

[DeNinny]

Speaking of mallets, deninny. How do you like your bosa? The Japanese seem obsessed with piretti, or at least piretti sells more there than here for sure from what I can tell...I have thought about piretti hard every now and then. Eventually the goal,is at least one from all makers. There is an original piretti handmade on eBay forever, dude put like a 3 wood shaft in it, but that has been on watch list.

 

I am going to get a mallet...I have decided.

 

I am loving my Bosa. The heavy-ish weight and balance of the head is nice. I have come to the anecdotal conclusion that a little toe balance is better than face balance but I split hairs. Also I like a solid metal head. No inserts and multiple materials, TYVM. It's far and away my gamer putter. Pirettis are really nice putters. Cheaper than Scottys but just as good of quality.

[Bigmean]

Brother, you could fill a barrel with heads of putters that are cheaper than scotty's but BETTER quality regarding his putters for the last decade and then some.....

 

I absolutely hate to get things from Japan I can get here, and I made the mistake of over funding my account, but there is a nice piretti and a tp mills actually mallet that is tour issue for not crazy money, but I may end up with another epon putter as there is a tempting model/price on there and I try to grab things with an astronomical price difference here and there. I got my Zen in what hopefully is as like new condition as it looked for $430......Way better condition than this and all original grip etc.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forged-Epon-Zen-Putter-34-5-Inch-/222476870195?hash=item33cca7a233:g:JqUAAOSwTM5Yy4U~

 

Original condition is HUGE. The reason that dude is not getting $600 for that zen on ebay is the face all day, that face is not only costing him $200, it is making it untouchable at near his asking for any collector with that money to spend. 3 of those watchers would pay $800 for it in near mint all original condition, and won't do more than watch that one.

 

A few years ago when I stopped refinishing and flipping old scotties, I sold a lot of my putters and sorta came to terms of how I could collect putters in a fun way (like actually use and enjoy them, not hang on wall next to COA and spend $7,000 for a stupid garage scotty to "appreciate" from an already fake bubble price) and actually restructured my collection so that IF I ever needed have the money I have put into my putters, or got hit by a bus, my wife could list them ON EBAY at $1 and without knowing anything about them they should finish less the 10% fees at a net total across all of them (some will make alot some will lose some) for +/-10% of my initial investment. It is more difficult than it sounds, You need to buy at 10% better than you can sell off the bat at least, and from there hope you have something that scarcity or demand would mean at time of sale you can get another % over that. So it is confining, but it is the responsible way for someone like me to have something as unneeded as putter collection and keep it justified.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Biggie, it is indeed the same Masuda, Masuda Yuji. In Japanese, the "u" after a consonant is said so quickly it's almost unpronounced. So "Masuda" is pronounced more like "Masda" than "Ma-su-da". For example "desu", the polite form of the verb "be", is not pronounced "de-su" but more like "dess." I suspect Mr. Masuda got his idea to call his company "Masda" from the car maker Mazda. Transliterating the Japanese directly into the English alphabet would produce "Matsuda", but the pronunciation is pretty close to "Mazda" (not identical).

Anyway, back to the putter. I'm not sure if Mr Masuda worked for Akira at some point, or whether they collaborated on a range of putters, but this was a happy find. It was priced at 20,000 yen, the guy in the shop offered it to me for 17,000. With trade-ins (which I didn't think I got a great offer for, but I was happy to decrease my inventory), I ended up paying 2,000 yen, which is what, $17〜$18?

While I like the Odyssey #9 Pro, I prefer the feel of the Masuda putter as it has no inserts, it's just solid metal (I'm with you on this, DeNinny). I actually went in to the shop today to buy the Odyssey #9 ProType, which doesn't have an insert, but I found the 350g a little too heavy for me. Then I stumbled on the Masuda putter, which wasn't there the last time I went in on Monday.

 

Finally, to echo what C_T_S said, Piretti do seem to be popular here (seen quite a few in second hand shops), but I've never seen anyone bagging one. Scotty Camerons, on the other hand, are everywhere. My mate played in a little comp with a load of local builders (contractors with small to mid-sized companies). He said all of them to a man had a Scotty in their bag. Looking down the back of the line of carts before starting there were 23 Scotties and one Odyssey Fang (his) sticking out like a sore thumb...

[DeNinny]

LMAO Biggie saying cheaper than a Scotty is like saying more chaste than a whore.

 

If you are looking for a mallet I say Pirretis should be on your list. Before my Bosa I looked hard at MannKrafted mallets too.

 

I was never a putter ho so advising you on them is like a beer drinker advising a wine snob on the best pinot gris.

[Kingcat990]

Scotty lost their appeal about 6 years ago. To me, their new stuff is the equivalent to a bedazzled denim jacket. Their old stuff is choice.

 

Can't say I've ever followed Japanese putters. I really like Big's Masda, but blade putters aren't really my thing. Masda makes a hybrid mallet/blade somewhat like Betti's QB8 this year, but when I emailed Masda they pretty much said custom order and no international sales. Oh well. I'll keep stroking my Piretti Matera flow neck.

[Bigmean]

NCN, I love the Japanese lessons.

 

 

Deninny, my palate is no more refined than the next guys, I just like putters. I do have an uncanny ability to use a variety of different heads and hosels though and putt well. Even yesterday with my Masda (Or Masuda if you will), it is a plumbers neck on a blade and it looks really blocky and not what you would think at address since the profile is a high toe etc. It is a lot different than my golds gamer answer style, as is my golds scotty way different from both, but all 3 are in my rotation of about 7 that I would feel like I could shoot my best round ever with.

 

I would get grilled for this in the putter section,so I will say it here in the more open minded section of this site, but I DON'T believe in the whole face balance/toe hang etc. for certain strokes thing. I think that certain shaft offsets and hosel types cause nuances maybe in how much the face moves, but it is the same motion by the person putting. I have read people that are fitted for one type and do better with another, but I really think you need to mentally be able to have both a feel for the putter distance wise, and a feel for the putter to set it off on the line you see. That is all that putting is, marriage of line and speed, that's it. I don't mean this as a passive brag or act like I am awesome at putting, but it is the strongest part of my game, I am sure I putt like 2-3 cap, I drive like 15 and there we are with that, but i am at the point where 1/10 putts I just mis hit it (line and speed) the other 9 misses I miss the speed or the line. Putting for me got alot easier when the misses are one and not both. So with that and my point, I can tell you with 1000s of hours on practice greens with many different putters and most of those hours rotating putters, your stroke is your stroke and you modify it based on getting better, but you don't change it for the putter. certain heads require more or less stroke, and certain heads require maybe a different approach to how you aim, but your stroke shouldn't change and you can putt well with anything that you can start on the line you see and control distance well with, anything past that is just unneeded fanciness.

 

Mallets have never appealed to me, but I have no doubt I can use them the same based on the above. I think people over complicate putting and to this day the best, I mean best advice I have ever heard about putting is from the Golden Bear, "putting is an attitude". I make it a point to verbalize to my partners that "I am just going to make this putt" because when you say it and believe it, it is amazing how even those misses, which most are when you say it for 25 footers, are just good looks and have your full concentration and belief in your roll.

 

Anyway, sorry for my quarterly putting tangent, but I think the "blades" mentality to golf really applies to the flatstick.

[buzlin]

This post is kind of related to the blades topic...................I'm one of those guys who likes to play a single ball, regardless of what it is, to remove a performance variable, and have been playing the ProV1x for the last 6+ years. In search of better "feel", I moved to the Srixon Zstar. I have to say I'm quite pleased, as this ball gives me a softer/stickier feeling off all my clubs. In a way, it makes my 945s feel more like my Tourstage 909s, which had to best feeling of any iron I've hit. Performance wise, they're similar and I'll just adjust to them. Anyone else try a softer ball because of feel alone?