Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[wmblake2000]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I have had driving irons and reg long irons. I just don't have the speed for driving irons and can't get enough height. I actually think about putting hybrids in down to a 6 iron. But I do love playing blade long irons. It's just that the hybrids are more reliable when the target is the center of the green. Now I have 3,4 h and that works really well.

[Kingcat990]

I bounce back and forth on hybrids and Di's. I have 1 Di and its an A-Grind 3i. I have had several hybrids.

 

Really depends on the day. I can get benefits from both. I typically prefer the hybrid due to the easy out from more lies and effortless launch.

[bervin]

I bounce back and forth on hybrids and Di's. I have 1 Di and its an A-Grind 3i. I have had several hybrids.

 

Really depends on the day. I can get benefits from both. I typically prefer the hybrid due to the easy out from more lies and effortless launch.

 

I've never gamed a DI. The new Ping crossovers look pretty sweet, though.

 

I play in a lot of thick rough in NW Florida and feel my hybrid helps from some lies. I'm also way to proud to leave driver in the bag, so not sure how much I stand to gain from a DI.

[bervin]

I bounce back and forth on hybrids and Di's. I have 1 Di and its an A-Grind 3i. I have had several hybrids.

 

Really depends on the day. I can get benefits from both. I typically prefer the hybrid due to the easy out from more lies and effortless launch.

 

I've never gamed a DI. The new Ping crossovers look pretty sweet, though.

 

I play in a lot of thick rough in NW Florida and feel my hybrid helps from some lies. I'm also way to proud to leave driver in the bag, so not sure how much I stand to gain from a DI.

[bervin]

I bounce back and forth on hybrids and Di's. I have 1 Di and its an A-Grind 3i. I have had several hybrids.

 

Really depends on the day. I can get benefits from both. I typically prefer the hybrid due to the easy out from more lies and effortless launch.

 

I've never gamed a DI. The new Ping crossovers look pretty sweet, though.

 

I play in a lot of thick rough in NW Florida and feel my hybrid helps from some lies. I'm also way to proud to leave driver in the bag, so not sure how much I stand to gain from a DI.

 

I bounce back and forth on hybrids and Di's. I have 1 Di and its an A-Grind 3i. I have had several hybrids.

 

Really depends on the day. I can get benefits from both. I typically prefer the hybrid due to the easy out from more lies and effortless launch.

 

I've never gamed a DI. The new Ping crossovers look pretty sweet, though.

 

I play in a lot of thick rough in NW Florida and feel my hybrid helps from some lies. I'm also way to proud to leave driver in the bag, so not sure how much I stand to gain from a DI.

[DeNinny]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I can't stand hybrids. I went through a phase of trying to like them but every side by side hitting session with one and an equivalent wood and/or iron resulted in an extremely underwhelming experience. Nothing was gained by it over the other clubs and it would be yet another different type of club in the bag, so I'm done with hybrids. I also find them ugly too. Not FUGLY like SGI irons ugly, but still ugly. All that said, the Titleist 585h was one I could have gamed OK.

 

I'm on the fence between blade 3i vs 7w and blade 2i vs 5w. It really doesn't matter but I am tending more and more towards having more blades in the bag. (LOL I can't go wrong based on the science.)

 

I imagine you're totally against a modern driving iron too, correct? The soles on these clubs are much wider and I'm sure that promotes solid production off a tee, but would not be in line with your theory from the turf.

 

It is not only aligned with my* theory, it is 100% proven in my anecdotal experience. During the time I was playing my same shafted and spec'ed mp67s and mp60s back and forth, for almost two seasons I also played mpFliHi 3i and 4i hybrid irons, again with the same exact Rifle 5.0 shafts and specs as my mp67 and mp60 3i and 4i. And yes, absolutely the wider sole of those mpFliHis were unequivocally WORSE for turf interaction and basically hitting fat shots that simply WOULDN'T have been fat had I been playing the mp67s or mp60s. I have hit hundreds of balls both on the course and range between all three types of irons and yes, again most definitely, the wider sole of those driving irons is significantly worse off any lie with the only exception being off a tee.

 

*Please note that it is not "my" theory. It is simply the theory. There is only one science that defines what the wider sole does in terms if interfering with the ground. There is no "alternate physics". LOL and I'm 100% on "my" physics and theories. LOL because they aren't really "mine". They are reality.

[bervin]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I can't stand hybrids. I went through a phase of trying to like them but every side by side hitting session with one and an equivalent wood and/or iron resulted in an extremely underwhelming experience. Nothing was gained by it over the other clubs and it would be yet another different type of club in the bag, so I'm done with hybrids. I also find them ugly too. Not FUGLY like SGI irons ugly, but still ugly. All that said, the Titleist 585h was one I could have gamed OK.

 

I'm on the fence between blade 3i vs 7w and blade 2i vs 5w. It really doesn't matter but I am tending more and more towards having more blades in the bag. (LOL I can't go wrong based on the science.)

 

I imagine you're totally against a modern driving iron too, correct? The soles on these clubs are much wider and I'm sure that promotes solid production off a tee, but would not be in line with your theory from the turf.

 

It is not only aligned with my* theory, it is 100% proven in my anecdotal experience. During the time I was playing my same shafted and spec'ed mp67s and mp60s back and forth, for almost two seasons I also played mpFliHi 3i and 4i hybrid irons, again with the same exact Rifle 5.0 shafts and specs as my mp67 and mp60 3i and 4i. And yes, absolutely the wider sole of those mpFliHis were unequivocally WORSE for turf interaction and basically hitting fat shots that simply WOULDN'T have been fat had I been playing the mp67s or mp60s. I have hit hundreds of balls both on the course and range between all three types of irons and yes, again most definitely, the wider sole of those driving irons is significantly worse off any lie with the only exception being off a tee.

 

*Please note that it is not "my" theory. It is simply the theory. There is only one science that defines what the wider sole does in terms if interfering with the ground. There is no "alternate physics". LOL and I'm 100% on "my" physics and theories. LOL because they aren't really "mine". They are reality.

 

Sure, I didn't meant to insinuate that I thought you've created and championed this theory as it's originator. I simply stated it that way because you were the one explaining the concept.

[b.helts]

Explain to me, or show me, with a bit of shaft lean and solid contact how, let's say, a Fli-Hi performs worse than a, let's say, MP67.

 

I am very interested to see the numbers. After all, you've (deninny, no passive aggressiveness here) claimed that anectodal, or personal experience is not noteworthy. How does a solid strike with one, differ from another. Also, if as stated, how does one perform better than another on a universal basis? I'd like to see the data on soft turf, firm turf and everything in between.

 

Thanks!

[DeNinny]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I can't stand hybrids. I went through a phase of trying to like them but every side by side hitting session with one and an equivalent wood and/or iron resulted in an extremely underwhelming experience. Nothing was gained by it over the other clubs and it would be yet another different type of club in the bag, so I'm done with hybrids. I also find them ugly too. Not FUGLY like SGI irons ugly, but still ugly. All that said, the Titleist 585h was one I could have gamed OK.

 

I'm on the fence between blade 3i vs 7w and blade 2i vs 5w. It really doesn't matter but I am tending more and more towards having more blades in the bag. (LOL I can't go wrong based on the science.)

 

I imagine you're totally against a modern driving iron too, correct? The soles on these clubs are much wider and I'm sure that promotes solid production off a tee, but would not be in line with your theory from the turf.

 

It is not only aligned with my* theory, it is 100% proven in my anecdotal experience. During the time I was playing my same shafted and spec'ed mp67s and mp60s back and forth, for almost two seasons I also played mpFliHi 3i and 4i hybrid irons, again with the same exact Rifle 5.0 shafts and specs as my mp67 and mp60 3i and 4i. And yes, absolutely the wider sole of those mpFliHis were unequivocally WORSE for turf interaction and basically hitting fat shots that simply WOULDN'T have been fat had I been playing the mp67s or mp60s. I have hit hundreds of balls both on the course and range between all three types of irons and yes, again most definitely, the wider sole of those driving irons is significantly worse off any lie with the only exception being off a tee.

 

*Please note that it is not "my" theory. It is simply the theory. There is only one science that defines what the wider sole does in terms if interfering with the ground. There is no "alternate physics". LOL and I'm 100% on "my" physics and theories. LOL because they aren't really "mine". They are reality.

 

Sure, I didn't meant to insinuate that I thought you've created and championed this theory as it's originator. I simply stated it that way because you were the one explaining the concept.

 

When it is just common sense it is hard to take any credit for it. Basically the issue is having any amount of mass that is either right in the curved plane path of the clubhead or right below it. And also note that the bottom of the flat clubface defines the very last point where you can make clean ball contact and that anything below it will result in skulling into the ball rather than the flat face striking it. So again when there is mass that is right at the same point in the arc as the bottom of the face, or even worse is for there to be mass BELOW that point, there is potential for that mass to interfere with the ground before the face hits the ball. And the more mass there is, again the more of a chance it will happen.

 

A simple way of looking at it is from the perspective of the ball looking at the face as it comes into impact. If you are looking at the face and down below it, if you see some mass like the rounded sole, then that is NOT good. That means that that sole *could* hit the ground before the face reaches the ball. And *IF* that mass were NOT there, then it would be better because there isn't anything to contact the ground before the face hits the ball.

[wkuo3]

83 Ben Hogan Apex ( Fort Worth ).

Lost some distance with the long irons after my injury a couple of years ago but these are still sweeeeeet !

Have a new set of 93 Apex but it'll remain boxed for my children in the future.

[DeNinny]

Explain to me, or show me, with a bit of shaft lean and solid contact how, let's say, a Fli-Hi performs worse than a, let's say, MP67.

 

I am very interested to see the numbers. After all, you've (deninny, no passive aggressiveness here) claimed that anectodal, or personal experience is not noteworthy. How does a solid strike with one, differ from another. Also, if as stated, how does one perform better than another on a universal basis? I'd like to see the data on soft turf, firm turf and everything in between.

 

Thanks!

 

I already explained it. And given that the last time we went back and forth in a debate you were debating something that I never said, I'd really appreciate it if you would just go back and quote the part (starting from when I responded to bervin and all our exchanges henceforth) that you don't agree with and then we can cordially discuss it from there. Thanks in advance!

 

And who cares what anybody but yourself thinks and experiences for your own game? Why not just go out and prove it to yourself with your own anecdotal experience? Heck, prove me wrong on that point by just doing it yourself. I shared how I gathered my anecdotal data. Please collect your own anecdotal data and share it! And feel free to "one-up" me with your setup. I suggest keeping as many things equal except for the sole size. And with respect to that, go with the biggest vs the smallest soled club that you can find (but again make ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL).

[PeanutsDaddy]

Big fan of hybrids. Currently using my left over long irons to make a hat/coat rack.

 

My experiences do not align with the general wisdom in the thread and that's just fine.

 

 

 

Given my collecting habits I could make enough long iron racks for a varsity team.

[joe chum]

Second package was the Xenon CuNi mini putter. It is now shafted and will be rolling this weekend, I will post pics. This is one of my better grabs. First off, I didn't realize how small it was from pics. Second, steel wool cleaned up the CuNi nice, it is perfect, third, the shaft it takes is a .37, and the fire express is a .355 and I wasn't feeling like a shim or the shaft in general so I threw in a black shaft I had that I ordered a while ago and was wrong, and a Scotty studio design grip, which is the same slick grip style I Love. So I will blackout the dancing Cameron, and this thing is killer. Looks like an absolute hammer. A little fatty. It has the garage feel, it is not cnc perfect, it is industrial badass and I like that vibe. I am worried about long putts with it because it is so small, but I feel like I can put this in the bag and make putts, like it just feels like it will start the ball on line.. Sits phenominal, lie is a bit flat in sensation, but not compared to my masda, which I can game with confidence. Really excited about this.

 

Biggie, can you give a complete novice advice on the best way to spiffen up a putter? I assume it depends on the material the putter is comprised of. I have several old putters at home that I'd like to try and spruce up, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. For example, I have an old titleist Acushnet Bullseye that looks like brass to me that I'm curious how difficult it would be to make it look not so completely abused. I'm completely clueless about any type of metal or materials in general. I just tell pilots where to go at work :)

[NRJyzr]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I can't stand hybrids. I went through a phase of trying to like them but every side by side hitting session with one and an equivalent wood and/or iron resulted in an extremely underwhelming experience.

<snip>

 

I bought a TM Stage 2 Tour 3h, which is 18.5° standard, as a 5 wood replacement. It works ok, but I'm not particularly fond of the graphite shaft that was in it (even if it was a TP shaft). I found I got better performance from the hybrid when I got another adapter and installed a DG in it. The club length came down a bit, which wasn't a concern, but the static weight came up. I found I could play said hybrid better with the steel shaft.

 

Which means, playing it more like an iron than a wood.

 

It's worth mention that I've always preferred heavier shafts, and as always YMMV. (a worry for me concerning the soon to be tested NV105 shafts, dropping 15-20g). ;) 85g in a fairway wood works ok, but 85g in a hybrid for some reason doesn't quite get it done. Go figure.

[DeNinny]

Curious as to what percentage of users in this thread prefer driving irons over hybrids/fairway woods. Do you think there is any correlation between the die hard blade user and driving iron users?

 

I can't stand hybrids. I went through a phase of trying to like them but every side by side hitting session with one and an equivalent wood and/or iron resulted in an extremely underwhelming experience.

<snip>

 

I bought a TM Stage 2 Tour 3h, which is 18.5° standard, as a 5 wood replacement. It works ok, but I'm not particularly fond of the graphite shaft that was in it (even if it was a TP shaft). I found I got better performance from the hybrid when I got another adapter and installed a DG in it. The club length came down a bit, which wasn't a concern, but the static weight came up. I found I could play said hybrid better with the steel shaft.

 

Which means, playing it more like an iron than a wood.

 

It's worth mention that I've always preferred heavier shafts, and as always YMMV. (a worry for me concerning the soon to be tested NV105 shafts, dropping 15-20g). ;) 85g in a fairway wood works ok, but 85g in a hybrid for some reason doesn't quite get it done. Go figure.

 

If I had learned the game on hybrids instead of woods I might have the reverse of opinion between them, but as it stands, they just can't replace them based on side by side shot comparisons. A 7w works just fine, TYVM, instead of a 3h. Same thing goes for 5w over 2h.

 

As a replacement of blade long irons they are lacking in shot precision and ball control and worse for hitting it fat/thin.

 

In general they were like woods with more offset. And since offset does NOTHING technically beneficial plus it looks ugly, I stuck with woods. The 585h didn't have as much offset as others at the time which is why I had less of an issue with it. They are like hybrid bicycles that are between a street racer and mountain bike. You end up with something that doesn't do anything any better than the other two.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

If I had learned the game on hybrids instead of woods I might have the reverse of opinion between them, but as it stands, they just can't replace them based on side by side shot comparisons. A 7w works just fine, TYVM, instead of a 3h. Same thing goes for 5w over 2h.

 

As a replacement of blade long irons they are lacking in shot precision and ball control and worse for hitting it fat/thin.

 

 

As I happy 7-wood user, I mostly agree with your post. The one thing that was different in my experience (key point: in my experience) was that off the deck I didn't have much of a problem hitting my hybrids fat, but I do with long irons. It's getting better, but I think I was trying to hit down too much with the long irons, whereas with the hybrids I was trying to sweep them away like a fairway wood.

 

The main reason I went off hybrids was that when I hoiked them left, they really went left. My 7w doesn't always go where I want it to, but it is definitely easier to hit straighter than my old hybrids.

[DeNinny]

If I had learned the game on hybrids instead of woods I might have the reverse of opinion between them, but as it stands, they just can't replace them based on side by side shot comparisons. A 7w works just fine, TYVM, instead of a 3h. Same thing goes for 5w over 2h.

 

As a replacement of blade long irons they are lacking in shot precision and ball control and worse for hitting it fat/thin.

 

 

As I happy 7-wood user, I mostly agree with your post. The one thing that was different in my experience (key point: in my experience) was that off the deck I didn't have much of a problem hitting my hybrids fat, but I do with long irons. It's getting better, but I think I was trying to hit down too much with the long irons, whereas with the hybrids I was trying to sweep them away like a fairway wood.

 

The main reason I went off hybrids was that when I hoiked them left, they really went left. My 7w doesn't always go where I want it to, but it is definitely easier to hit straighter than my old hybrids.

 

I totally understand your experience, but I don't see that it necessarily contradicts what I said. My experience when I compared hybrids and blade long irons was based on putting the same swing on them. When I put the same steep AoA or the same shallow AoA on both clubs, always the wider soled hybrid was worse for fat and thin miss hits by comparison when all other things were as equal as possible.

 

I would contend that *if* you had compared hybrids and long irons with the same swing, including AoA, then you *may* more align to what I stated. (Or not.)

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I would contend that *if* you had compared hybrids and long irons with the same swing, including AoA, then you *may* more align to what I stated. (Or not.)

 

Maybe. I certainly wasn't mentally trying to swing the same, which was a big part of the problem.

As a final thought before I head off to bed, do you think hybrids (and fairway woods) better off soft wet fairways than long irons? The first teaching pro I went to said that in winter, it was better to leave the long irons (this was back in the day, so I think he meant 1, 2, and 3 irons) out of the bag because the ball was hard to compress on wet fairways.

[mahonie]

If I had learned the game on hybrids instead of woods I might have the reverse of opinion between them, but as it stands, they just can't replace them based on side by side shot comparisons. A 7w works just fine, TYVM, instead of a 3h. Same thing goes for 5w over 2h.

 

As a replacement of blade long irons they are lacking in shot precision and ball control and worse for hitting it fat/thin.

 

 

As I happy 7-wood user, I mostly agree with your post. The one thing that was different in my experience (key point: in my experience) was that off the deck I didn't have much of a problem hitting my hybrids fat, but I do with long irons. It's getting better, but I think I was trying to hit down too much with the long irons, whereas with the hybrids I was trying to sweep them away like a fairway wood.

 

The main reason I went off hybrids was that when I hoiked them left, they really went left. My 7w doesn't always go where I want it to, but it is definitely easier to hit straighter than my old hybrids.

 

I totally understand your experience, but I don't see that it necessarily contradicts what I said. My experience when I compared hybrids and blade long irons was based on putting the same swing on them. When I put the same steep AoA or the same shallow AoA on both clubs, always the wider soled hybrid was worse for fat and thin miss hits by comparison when all other things were as equal as possible.

 

I would contend that *if* you had compared hybrids and long irons with the same swing, including AoA, then you *may* more align to what I stated. (Or not.)

 

I may be the outlier...I have no trouble switching between 3-iron or 3-hybrid. As a sweeper, my swing was honed with a blade 3-iron as a kid ;-), I can hit any shot with the hybrid that I can hit with the 3-iron. It helps that my hybrid has no discernible offset (possible smidgen of onset tbh) although like most, it does have a propensity to go left on occasion. This is good when faced with a right-to-left dogleg...not so good with OOB hugging the left side ;-)

[Kingcat990]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

[DeNinny]

I would contend that *if* you had compared hybrids and long irons with the same swing, including AoA, then you *may* more align to what I stated. (Or not.)

 

Maybe. I certainly wasn't mentally trying to swing the same, which was a big part of the problem.

As a final thought before I head off to bed, do you think hybrids (and fairway woods) better off soft wet fairways than long irons? The first teaching pro I went to said that in winter, it was better to leave the long irons (this was back in the day, so I think he meant 1, 2, and 3 irons) out of the bag because the ball was hard to compress on wet fairways.

 

Whenever you analyze a multivariable problem, it is very important that when comparing two of the variables that all of the others be as equal as possible. There is no other way to draw a comparative conclusion. The impact of a third or additional variables will convolute the conclusion.

 

To answer your last question I have to mention up front that it is very conditional based on how you swing both clubs and again precisely because of what I just stated above. I would say that *If* your iron swing relies on ball compression into the soft turf *AND* your hybrid swing does NOT, then absolutely what your teaching pro said has theoretical merit (but note that statistical significance is a whole other issue).

 

But *If* you are putting the same exact type of swing on the hybrid as the long iron, then absolutely the switch to hybrids in the soft conditions would not be theoretically justified if the desire is to lessen the effect of soft ground interference with ball compression against it. If you put a steep AoA on both clubs, you will contact the ball and compress it into the ground at the moment of impact pretty much exactly the same (neglecting differences on how the ball compresses against the face and how it literally deforms). Same thing goes if you put a shallow AoA on both clubs. In this case neither does much ball compression into the soft ground.

 

Note that this is just with respect to the ball compression question into the ground. When all other things are equal, a hybrid is still going to slow the clubhead down more (relatively speaking) as it passes through soft turf as compared to the thinner soled blade long iron. This would be the same issue if the ground were hard or the ground were softer. The wider and more curved sole is simply less aerodynamically efficient because all media - hard dirt, soft dirt, water, mud, sand, etc...doesn't matter - has to pass around or across literally more mass as the clubhead plows through it. Mathematically the wider and more rounded sole will ALWAYS create more drag force resistance. LOL I know this wasn't your question, but the physics of this is just as pertinent as the ball compression into turf issue, if not more.

[DeNinny]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

 

LOL Kingcat, you just turned it all into a multivariable problem with this. I could say a lot about it and not necessarily criticism either. But wow it would not be a "short" answer. So I am going to go play my blades instead. All I will say now is that is fundamentally why I like blade irons. My irons swing from club to club is a simple progression and change of setup without anything drastic. As I change to my woods it is yet another setup but still similar from wood to wood the same as my similarity from iron to iron. So now if you throw a hybrid into my bag right in between my woods and irons, I would have to develop yet another swing for it. Could I? Yeah for sure, I am an engineer and can figure it out, but do I WANT to? Heck no! I don't need more bag variability, TYVM.

 

Going to play a different course with my buds today to get away from the bog that is our home course. I hope thinking about your post doesn't F*CK with my head!!! (I keed bro...love the post!)

[Kingcat990]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

 

LOL Kingcat, you just turned it all into a multivariable problem with this. I could say a lot about it and not necessarily criticism either. But wow it would not be a "short" answer. So I am going to go play my blades instead. All I will say now is that is fundamentally why I like blade irons. My irons swing from club to club is a simple progression and change of setup without anything drastic. As I change to my woods it is yet another setup but still similar from wood to wood the same as my similarity from iron to iron. So now if you throw a hybrid into my bag right in between my woods and irons, I would have to develop yet another swing for it. Could I? Yeah for sure, I am an engineer and can figure it out, but do I WANT to? Heck no! I don't need more bag variability, TYVM.

 

Going to play a different course with my buds today to get away from the bog that is our home course. I hope thinking about your post doesn't F*CK with my head!!! (I keed bro...love the post!)

 

:D you're going to land on the green at some point today for GIR and the ball will be right in your throw up zone and you're going to 3 putt for bogey thinking about my post :D :D :D

 

Good luck today

[wmblake2000]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

 

Hmmm. I never really thought about it, or even thought much about a different swing for different kinds of clubs. For me, I think it's more about the shot I'm trying to hit, the lie, ball position, etc. The swing seems to follow more-or-less automatically.

 

But I'm one of those older guys who grew up on blades and I love hybrids. Maybe one reason is I played Wilson x31 with wide soles in rural Arkansas where the fairways could be pretty hard so I sweep more than dig and take pretty shallow divots so maybe that's why....

[kaaayelll]

I went to an 18* DI a few years ago in place of a 5W, never to look back. I find it way more versatile and love hitting it.

 

Second, I find the points about psychology and personal experience far more salient than any of the technical arguments. If something works better for you, that's all that matters, even if those results are psychologically driven. Now, do too many people just listen to marketing and fail to try enough gear to find out what is actually best for them? Most certainly. But who am I (or anybody else) to tell someone what's best for them. It only makes sense to encourage trial and let everyone draw there own conclusions. After all, there are a lot of folks who make handsome livings playing clubs that are "technically inferior."

[DeNinny]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

 

LOL Kingcat, you just turned it all into a multivariable problem with this. I could say a lot about it and not necessarily criticism either. But wow it would not be a "short" answer. So I am going to go play my blades instead. All I will say now is that is fundamentally why I like blade irons. My irons swing from club to club is a simple progression and change of setup without anything drastic. As I change to my woods it is yet another setup but still similar from wood to wood the same as my similarity from iron to iron. So now if you throw a hybrid into my bag right in between my woods and irons, I would have to develop yet another swing for it. Could I? Yeah for sure, I am an engineer and can figure it out, but do I WANT to? Heck no! I don't need more bag variability, TYVM.

 

Going to play a different course with my buds today to get away from the bog that is our home course. I hope thinking about your post doesn't F*CK with my head!!! (I keed bro...love the post!)

 

:D you're going to land on the green at some point today for GIR and the ball will be right in your throw up zone and you're going to 3 putt for bogey thinking about my post :D :D :D

 

Good luck today

 

Oh you dirty dawg I need you as my partner if you are going to play head games like this. LOL I read this on my phone before the round and I had five three putts today. FIVE!!! U suk. LOL shot 43-43 and in my defense it was windy with 15-20mph wind all day. My only excuse for the putting besides your posts was that I came off putting on punched and wet greens at my home course to fast greens today. My speed was horrible. I drove and struck the ball well with all my full shots but the wind was an issue. 'twas hard to pick the right club. The high point was having an eagle chance with a 25 ft easy chip. I missed it by putting it past the hole by a foot. My only birdie.

 

Played my satin BBs and had some good shots. I had a 150 yd 5i into a 15mph headwind. Set up for a small cut and caught it thin and on the toe. The ball launched low because it was thin but since it has low spin it just cut through the wind and went about 145 yds to the front of the green. My buds said "good shot" and I said "nope but I'm taking it; my babies just forgave me good on that one." Oh and yes I three putted from 15' out (b@$tard!). I also hit a 135 yd 7i into a head wind and left it 20' pin high to the right. And yes I three putted from there too (and cursing "Fing Kingcat! #!%&×!!!"). Another memorable one was a 165 yd downwind and downhill 6i. Blind shot too. I nutted it perfect from the rough ('cause of my thin soled BB 6i, baby!). Left it 30' past but given the 20 mph wind behind me it was a great shot. Oh and yes, MFer, I three putted that for bogey too. Happy now?

[NRJyzr]

Note that this is just with respect to the ball compression question into the ground. When all other things are equal, a hybrid is still going to slow the clubhead down more (relatively speaking) as it passes through soft turf as compared to the thinner soled blade long iron.

 

The problem is, all else isn't equal. ;) The equalizer in a many/most cases is the leading edge. If you have a cambered, killed, or otherwise blunted leading edge on the iron, then the iron would be better. Most normal irons, and especially most normal blades, have a somewhat sharper leading edge, and anything remotely heavy will catch in soft conditions.

 

edited for typos. yay idiot fingers...

[DeNinny]

Over the years, reading thousands of posts on hybrids, I came to the conclusion a little while back that "players", predominantly speaking the majority of the members here on this thread, and several other low caps, typically do not get along with hybrids.

 

I also personally believe after watching a lot of golfers both good and bad, that people who swing a blade type iron have a completely different swing as opposed to the 10's of thousands of golfers I've seen play GI clubs.

 

Blade iron players, typically more mature in age have an exponentially steeper swing at the ball as opposed to their counterpart GI players who sweep.

 

What I have personally found with hybrids is that you have to find a middle ground of club head approach. You can neither get steep on a hybrid without a hook nor can you sweep a hybrid without a raging slice.

 

Hybrid clubs require their own swing. Thats why I think players of skill and mechanics will resort to a wood vs a hybrid. Not saying it's as black and white as that, but most blade iron players are your wood players, and GI folks are your hybrid players.

 

Like I said, it's what I have seen and experienced personally in my career. Blade players athletic swing is too steep for conventional hybrids.

 

I'm open for criticism.

 

Ok so really like how you took this perspective on the topic of hybrids and I cannot say that I share the same observation but also I never tried to ascertain a correlation between hybrid players and certain swings or skill levels.

 

About the only "criticism" that I have for what you state is that a good/athletic swing is not really that steep but yet it can be observed as such. To me that "steepness" that you see is really just the proper way to lag and sequence the club. A good/athletic swing is based on generating clubhead velocity efficiently. And the fundamental way, LOL...wait for it...by the physics, is to turn for as long as possible with low rotational MOI in order to generate as much clubhead velocity as possible in a short amount of time, and then at the last possible moment you go to full arms extension so that you strike the ball with as much kinetic energy in the clubhead as possible. And again, the key to this is holding that lag to keep the club and thus its mass close to the body. This is the what makes that swing good and athletic because it is done with efficient physics.

 

By contrast, the golfer that releases his lag early (i.e. casts and/or flips) basically puts the club mass farther away from the body too early, thereby increasing his swing MOI, which ultimately doesn't generate as much clubhead velocity because by the physics he will turn SLOWER, all things equal compared to the good golfer who keeps that club weight close to the body and then releases it at the last possible moment.

 

So this is how I see a good/athletic "steep" swing. And with that I don't really see it as steep, but I can see how it would appear as such because a golfer that releases his lag early will have a wider arcing swing right out of the gate and by comparison to a good/athletic swing this would appear as more shallow, and it is to some degree, but really both golfers can come into impact with the same AoA because all that matters is that the good/athletic golfer reach the same point of almost full extension at impact as the bad golfer. Again he just gets there later because he kept a lower MOI swing for a little longer.

 

Anyway this was my only "issue" with your post. I agree that hybrids need a different swing, but I can't say that it needs to be necessarily steeper or shallower than a blade swing. I just see it as a different swing through slightly different setup rather than AoA. Also I have never tried to make a generalization about hybrid players. I just see hybrids as yet another (underwhelming) option of club style to play. I see all skill level guys playing them at my club but in general and in my anecdotal observation I do see less of them in the bags of lower handicap golfers.

[DeNinny]

Note that this is just with respect to the ball compression question into the ground. When all other things are equal, a hybrid is still going to slow the clubhead down more (relatively speaking) as it passes through soft turf as compared to the thinner soled blade long iron.

 

The problem is, all else isn't equal. ;) The equalizer in a many/most cases is the leading edge. If you have a cambered, killed, or otherwise blunted leading edge on the iron, then the iron would be better. Most normal irons, and especially most normal blades, have a somewhat sharper leading edge, and anything remotely heavy will catch in soft conditions.

 

edited for typos. yay idiot fingers...

 

In the context of the two different leading edge clubheads penetrating the ground at the same velocity, AoA, point behind the ball...again all other things equal, unequivocally the clubhead will take the same exact path through dirt, sand, grass, soil, etc, whatever and regardless of how sharp or blunted the leading edge of the clubhead is. LOL the real problem is your ASSUMPTION that the clubhead "digs more" from a sharper leading edge or that the more rounded leading edge "digs less" or reroutes. This is an absolute false assumption in thinking that a clubhead going into the ground at 70+ mph is going to change direction based on less than an inch of ground. In this context, the clubhead does NOT reroute because all that media is soft as compared to the hard metal clubhead. All that media acts as is a FLUID around the clubhead. It moves out of the way of the high momentum clubhead that comes crashing into it. And furthermore by the physics of the more blunted leading edge, the clubhead will slow down MORE through the media and the sharper leading edge will actually have HIGHER clubhead velocity as they both dig the same.

 

Please think this through thoroughly before you respond. If you think what is happening is different than what I described above I will tell you now that you will never see the contrary on slow motion video when you study the path of a clubhead as it goes through sand, takes a divot, hits it fat, goes through rough, goes through water, etc, it won't matter...you will ALWAYS see the clubhead take the same exact path as it was going before it contacted the media.

 

Also it is obvious that you can take a normal divot (or at least the first inch of it...where it matters) the same exact way with either a sharp leading edge or blunted leading club. They end up taking the same exact path through the turf. There is no rerouting when taking a divot and there is no rerouting when hitting it through ANY media and it doesn't matter how sharp or blunt the leading edge is.

 

BTW let's take this to PM if you really want to keep responding on this one.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Interesting thoughts on the hybrid/long iron issue. I think, as mahonie said (and DeNinny seemed to back this up), if you're a sweeper, it will make less difference than if you are a digger or have a steep AoA.

 

Anyway, went to the range today for a great practice session. I just wish I had been able to go to the course after it. Since I developed the snap hooks last year (about a year ago to the day, in fact), I have been doing all sorts of things to get my form back. Some have been bandaids, some have brought me closer to my goal. About a month ago I realized that my hands and wrists were taut at address (I was trying to get an upright stance, I guess), and that was a real revelation to me. I think the final piece fell into place today. Well, a few days ago really, I as realized I lead my swing with my hands. I have always done this, but at some point last year I stopped doing this and started trying to lead with my arms or shoulders. Anyway, today was a good day.

 

How good? Well, my "litmus test" clubs were generally good, and that's not something I have been able to say for a year.

My MP-4 4i was solid, and flying well. No low, top-spin hooks. My 4w off the deck was *generally" OK. And an old persimmon Slazenger driver I picked up recently was going really well. If I can hit those clubs right, then I know my swing is good. And I was creaming them. After hitting a few with the Slazenger, I picked up my G20 and just nailed the ball. I figured practicing with persimmon would help me focus on the quality of the strike, and boy did it ever.