SNELL GOLF BALLS??? anyone???

[CUBuffaloes]

18 hours ago, JCitW6855 said:

Personally I would rather them be out of stock more often but when I catch them available be able to purchase higher volume to stock up and would be fine with a 5 dozen limit per order. I’m sure some don’t feel the same but I do believe a lot of people do.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 6/3/2022 at 10:50 PM, JCitW6855 said:

I really, really, really want to use Snell balls unfortunately I just can’t make the price at low purchase quantities make sense against the other options available. Personally I would rather them be out of stock more often but when I catch them available be able to purchase higher volume to stock up and would be fine with a 5 dozen limit per order. I’m sure some don’t feel the same but I do believe a lot of people do.

 

 

On 6/4/2022 at 4:51 PM, CUBuffaloes said:

 

I've got a curiosity question for those who are willing to buy the 5doz but not the 2doz... Is it the shipping, or the raw price?

 

Would you have been willing to spend 33.99/doz for the 5doz if they were available as it would amortize the shipping over a larger order? Or would you not be willing to order 5doz if they weren't available at the lower 30.99/doz price? 

[Mike412]

58 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

I've got a curiosity question for those who are willing to buy the 5doz but not the 2doz... Is it the shipping, or the raw price?

 

Would you have been willing to spend 33.99/doz for the 5doz if they were available as it would amortize the shipping over a larger order? Or would you not be willing to order 5doz if they weren't available at the lower 30.99/doz price? 

It’s both. That’s the advantage of the DTC model, the more you buy the better the price. Also anytime you can spread shipping out across higher quantities it increases the value.

[CUBuffaloes]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Would you have been willing to spend 33.99/doz for the 5doz if they were available as it would amortize the shipping over a larger order? Or would you not be willing to order 5doz if they weren't available at the lower 30.99/doz price? 

 

A little of both but for me its mainly the shipping. I buy for my family (me and 3 kids that play) so I like ordering at least 5 doz at a time. With the limitation of 2 boxes I'd have to place 3 separate orders and pay $45 in shipping alone. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks. 

 

The reason I asked is that one of the things that I'm sure Snell didn't want to do is announce price hikes, but the nature of shortages mean that they're selling fewer balls, but their overhead probably hasn't shrunk at all. So they need a higher average selling price [ASP] across all of their orders to make the same revenue and earn enough money to pay and retain their employees. And I don't know what the shortages have done to their cost model, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if various input costs have gone up so that's cutting into their margin. So they might have additional pressure that means they can't offer the same deals they offered before. 

 

Keeping the 5doz price break without limits means they'll sell out of their stock of balls faster, but ALSO that they'll do it at lower margin. Reducing the maximum order quantity to 2doz is a stealth price increase--they didn't actually raise prices but they eliminated some of their low-margin offerings. Which I'm sure will make their ASP go up given how many people in this thread said they wouldn't order w/o the bulk pricing. Obviously shipping is probably a pass-through cost, but stopping the bulk deal helps them keep the lights on by improving margins on what they actually do sell. 

 

I suspect that consumer sentiment would be a lot worse if they said they were allowing people to order as many balls as they wanted but doing away with the bulk discounts--it'll piss consumers off and you might even hear the term "gouging"--because most consumers are idiots. By limiting to 2doz per order they're able to raise ASP without increasing list prices by a single penny... Much smarter way to keep their margin where it needs to be to cover overhead, on a smaller number of balls sold. 

[Mike412]

11 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Thanks. 

 

The reason I asked is that one of the things that I'm sure Snell didn't want to do is announce price hikes, but the nature of shortages mean that they're selling fewer balls, but their overhead probably hasn't shrunk at all. So they need a higher average selling price [ASP] across all of their orders to make the same revenue and earn enough money to pay and retain their employees. And I don't know what the shortages have done to their cost model, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if various input costs have gone up so that's cutting into their margin. So they might have additional pressure that means they can't offer the same deals they offered before. 

 

Keeping the 5doz price break without limits means they'll sell out of their stock of balls faster, but ALSO that they'll do it at lower margin. Reducing the maximum order quantity to 2doz is a stealth price increase--they didn't actually raise prices but they eliminated some of their low-margin offerings. Which I'm sure will make their ASP go up given how many people in this thread said they wouldn't order w/o the bulk pricing. Obviously shipping is probably a pass-through cost, but stopping the bulk deal helps them keep the lights on by improving margins on what they actually do sell. 

 

I suspect that consumer sentiment would be a lot worse if they said they were allowing people to order as many balls as they wanted but doing away with the bulk discounts--it'll piss consumers off and you might even hear the term "gouging"--because most consumers are idiots. By limiting to 2doz per order they're able to raise ASP without increasing list prices by a single penny... Much smarter way to keep their margin where it needs to be to cover overhead, on a smaller number of balls sold. 

I can somewhat see that but I personally don’t think that is the case. However, if that is what’s going on they are moving out of one category and into another. The nature of manufacturing is the more you make the less the cost. While I understand what your saying, there have been price increases in literally every product made so I don’t think that would necessarily be a deterrent as long as it’s reasonable and in line with other manufacturers. At the end of the day the other DTC options are still offering quantity discounts so I suppose Snell just has to decide what space they want to compete in because right now buying Snell feels like buying any other ball online so again it negates the value. When the other DTC brands and even in-store brands are getting very similar performance at a lower price point it unfortunately doesn’t make sense to go with Snell. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

38 minutes ago, JCitW6855 said:

I can somewhat see that but I personally don’t think that is the case. However, if that is what’s going on they are moving out of one category and into another. The nature of manufacturing is the more you make the less the cost. While I understand what your saying, there have been price increases in literally every product made so I don’t think that would necessarily be a deterrent as long as it’s reasonable and in line with other manufacturers. At the end of the day the other DTC options are still offering quantity discounts so I suppose Snell just has to decide what space they want to compete in because right now buying Snell feels like buying any other ball online so again it negates the value. When the other DTC brands and even in-store brands are getting very similar performance at a lower price point it unfortunately doesn’t make sense to go with Snell. 

 

Fair enough. Obviously I'm just speculating... But so is nearly everyone else on this thread lol 😉

 

I'm sure Snell knows their business, knows how many balls they expect to sell, and at what price point. The goal is to find a market-clearing price, i.e. what is the maximum you can price your product at that you'll sell everything you produce? If you price too high, your value advantage to non-DTC premium balls erodes and a customer would rather buy premium. If you price too high and your DTC competitors are significantly lower, your value disadvantage to other DTC makes you a hard sell. If you price too low, you'll sell out quickly and then you'll be left with angry customers that can't get product at any price.  

 

In a normal market, you try to produce more (because volume drives down price and allows you to lower gross margin per ball while maintaining or improving overall business profits). In a constrained market, however, if you know can to sell everything you produce at 33.99/doz, it doesn't make a lot of sense to sell it significantly faster at 30.99/doz. Because if you can't replenish your stock and you sell out, you're just leaving money on the table. 

 

I'm not saying that you should look at this and buy Snell. If I run out of the 5doz I bought shortly before the limits started, I'm not sure what I'll do if they haven't removed the limit by then. I was just trying to offer an outsider's perspective on why they would rather limit order quantities instead of selling out quickly to bulk buyers at lower margin.

 

[Mike412]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Fair enough. Obviously I'm just speculating... But so is nearly everyone else on this thread lol 😉

 

I'm sure Snell knows their business, knows how many balls they expect to sell, and at what price point. The goal is to find a market-clearing price, i.e. what is the maximum you can price your product at that you'll sell everything you produce? If you price too high, your value advantage to non-DTC premium balls erodes and a customer would rather buy premium. If you price too high and your DTC competitors are significantly lower, your value disadvantage to other DTC makes you a hard sell. If you price too low, you'll sell out quickly and then you'll be left with angry customers that can't get product at any price.  

 

In a normal market, you try to produce more (because volume drives down price and allows you to lower gross margin per ball while maintaining or improving overall business profits). In a constrained market, however, if you know can to sell everything you produce at 33.99/doz, it doesn't make a lot of sense to sell it significantly faster at 30.99/doz. Because if you can't replenish your stock and you sell out, you're just leaving money on the table. 

 

I'm not saying that you should look at this and buy Snell. If I run out of the 5doz I bought shortly before the limits started, I'm not sure what I'll do if they haven't removed the limit by then. I was just trying to offer an outsider's perspective on why they would rather limit order quantities instead of selling out quickly to bulk buyers at lower margin.

 

I hope I didn’t come off as argumentative, that wasn’t my intention. I was just responding with my thoughts, we all have different ways of looking at things and have to decide what is best for us. 🍻

 

I’m sure Snell has their reasons for doing what they do and I sincerely hope it works for them because I would like use them if they go back to the bulk model, but also the more competition in the market the better for the consumer. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

21 minutes ago, JCitW6855 said:

I hope I didn’t come off as argumentative, that wasn’t my intention. I was just responding with my thoughts, we all have different ways of looking at things and have to decide what is best for us. 🍻

 

I’m sure Snell has their reasons for doing what they do and I sincerely hope it works for them because I would like use them if they go back to the bulk model, but also the more competition in the market the better for the consumer. 

 

Cheers to the beers emoji; if it isn't clear from my avatar, I'm a homebrewer lol 😉 

 

I guess where I'm coming from is that everything in the world seems simple from the outside, and as someone who works for a multi-billion dollar tech firm, I can tell you that it's ALWAYS 100x more complicated on the inside. So I figured I'd throw out a number of the things that might be influencing Snell's go to market decisions that hadn't been explored here.

 

Beyond that, I'm with you. I'm hoping that they weather this and get back to a competitive strategy with the rest of the market. I like the company and Dean's story, as a guy who built a lot of the industry and then struck out on his own. I like the ball, and as someone who is colorblind, their "Optic Yellow" is one of the easiest balls to see for me. But... I'm pretty much right in the middle of the bell curve for swing characteristics. Driver about 100 mph, so I don't need an ultra-spinny or low-spin ball. I can pretty much throw a dart at the meaty middle of the MGS ball test data and find an acceptable ball for my swing. My criteria is more that I play the same ball 100% than whether it's +/- 100 RPM from "ideal" on a well-struck 8i. I'm not the most price-sensitive guy in the world, but I'm also a bad enough golfer, and I'll lose enough balls, that I don't need to be spending $50/doz. 

 

So I'm good probably at least through 2022 and well into 2023, at which point I'm hoping that the bulk deals return. If they don't, well, I might look elsewhere. 

[Mike412]

11 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Cheers to the beers emoji; if it isn't clear from my avatar, I'm a homebrewer lol 😉 

 

I guess where I'm coming from is that everything in the world seems simple from the outside, and as someone who works for a multi-billion dollar tech firm, I can tell you that it's ALWAYS 100x more complicated on the inside. So I figured I'd throw out a number of the things that might be influencing Snell's go to market decisions that hadn't been explored here.

 

Beyond that, I'm with you. I'm hoping that they weather this and get back to a competitive strategy with the rest of the market. I like the company and Dean's story, as a guy who built a lot of the industry and then struck out on his own. I like the ball, and as someone who is colorblind, their "Optic Yellow" is one of the easiest balls to see for me. But... I'm pretty much right in the middle of the bell curve for swing characteristics. Driver about 100 mph, so I don't need an ultra-spinny or low-spin ball. I can pretty much throw a dart at the meaty middle of the MGS ball test data and find an acceptable ball for my swing. My criteria is more that I play the same ball 100% than whether it's +/- 100 RPM from "ideal" on a well-struck 8i. I'm not the most price-sensitive guy in the world, but I'm also a bad enough golfer, and I'll lose enough balls, that I don't need to be spending $50/doz. 

 

So I'm good probably at least through 2022 and well into 2023, at which point I'm hoping that the bulk deals return. If they don't, well, I might look elsewhere. 

I saw that, that’s pretty cool.

 

Yeah it’s always different on the inside than what people think and even though I have a decent background in setting pricing and profit margin according to volume, there’s no way to know what an individual company is dealing with. However, right or wrong, companies will be compared to other similar companies competing in the same space. 
 

I’m right there with as far as the game goes and the same swing speed. I want a ball that won’t hold me back but value is important as I’m subject to lose them here and there as well. I think the overwhelming majority of golfers are looking for a good ball that don’t break the bank when they lose it. Which is why I believe the DTC market is such a great thing and why people are so passionate about it. It’s right in the sweet spot for quality vs. value. 

 

 

[cardigan]

Here's the info that was provided last year (2021) on allocation and shipping.  They did eventually get back to allowing the bulk discounts (I think in the fall) but it's a similar situation now.  Is it the complete detail of all of their inner workings? No, but it's some insight into their thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mileslong]

Just wanted to share my recent experience.  With the current pricing and the possibility of a shortage of Snell balls I decide to look for a backup ball I could buy locally.  My first choice was the TP5X.  I bought a dozen to see how they compared to my beloved MTBX.  Chalk it up to just being familiar with how the Snell ball performs, I’ve been playing Snell since the start, but I experienced no performance improvement playing the TP5X. I did find that the cover of the TP5X is less durable than the MTBX. I gave 2 sleeve of the TP5X to a buddy that plays them.  I don’t plan to look any further I’m guessing my experience will be the same with any of the “premium” balls on the market. The MTBX is just that good and so predictable for me.  Hopefully Dean can survive the storm and come out on the other side!!

[scott406]

I have also been trying out balls with the current supply issue facing Snell

I have been a Snel Black player for the past 2 years.  It is the best ball for the money.(IMO)

The only ball besides the ProV1, and I am not spending $50 for a dozen balls, I found to be close to the Snell Black is the Wilson Triad.  It does Spin more into greens than the Snell Black but I can adjust for that.

The TaylorMade Tour Response with the stripe, was also a good option but it is too soft off of the putter for me

 

I have a dozen Snell Blacks left to play, so hopefully by then we are back to big orders

 

 

 

 

 

[larciel]

It doesn't seem like many people know this but you can order 2dz of MTB and 2dz of same MTB but in high numbers for total of 4dz and shipping is only $10. and you get additional discounts.

[monks66]

noticed Snell doesnt have "Get Sum" golf balls anymore?

[iKOH423]

1 hour ago, monks66 said:

noticed Snell doesnt have "Get Sum" golf balls anymore?

I noticed that too.  I can't imagine they would away with it completely...I hope it's just because of supply issues with Black and X...that being said, they've just been out of stock in the past and not removed if I recall..

[cardigan]

1 hour ago, iKOH423 said:

I noticed that too.  I can't imagine they would away with it completely...I hope it's just because of supply issues with Black and X...that being said, they've just been out of stock in the past and not removed if I recall..

Snell would have to speak to whether it's coming back or not and whether it would come back as the same ball or a new version but it's no longer on the conforming list.

[iKOH423]

21 hours ago, cardigan said:

Snell would have to speak to whether it's coming back or not and whether it would come back as the same ball or a new version but it's no longer on the conforming list.

Hopefully they come back.  New or the same, I have turned a few of my friends onto the brand, would hate for them to have to go elsewhere.

[iKOH423]

My dad who uses the Get Sum - submitted a inquiry to Snell and got this response back - they have not discontinued the Get Sum balls.  Because of production issues they felt it would be less confusing for the customer on the website if they were taken down until they could get back to stabilized production.

[Snell Golf]

5 minutes ago, iKOH423 said:

My dad who uses the Get Sum - submitted a inquiry to Snell and got this response back - they have not discontinued the Get Sum balls.  Because of production issues they felt it would be less confusing for the customer on the website if they were taken down until they could get back to stabilized production.

hello.   The get sum has been out of stock most of the year due to material shortages with the ionomers that make up the covers.   We have been working on this and hope to have GET SUM back in stock in a month or so.  Depends on how long it takes to be shipped, but almost ready to leave the factory.

[iKOH423]

3 minutes ago, Snell Golf said:

hello.   The get sum has been out of stock most of the year due to material shortages with the ionomers that make up the covers.   We have been working on this and hope to have GET SUM back in stock in a month or so.  Depends on how long it takes to be shipped, but almost ready to leave the factory.

Great!  I appreciate the response.  I will let him know, we were all stumped/concerned to see them not listed on the website and not just 'out of stock'.

[Snell Golf]

17 hours ago, iKOH423 said:

Great!  I appreciate the response.  I will let him know, we were all stumped/concerned to see them not listed on the website and not just 'out of stock'.

yup.. been frustrating to say the least.   the bigger companies have a surplus of the ionomers that they have been using with with limited material supply issue, so they have been OK so far.. the smaller companies that do not carry as much have been the ones that will suffer a bit.

[phizzy30]

On 6/13/2022 at 9:37 AM, mileslong said:

Just wanted to share my recent experience.  With the current pricing and the possibility of a shortage of Snell balls I decide to look for a backup ball I could buy locally.  My first choice was the TP5X.  I bought a dozen to see how they compared to my beloved MTBX.  Chalk it up to just being familiar with how the Snell ball performs, I’ve been playing Snell since the start, but I experienced no performance improvement playing the TP5X. I did find that the cover of the TP5X is less durable than the MTBX. I gave 2 sleeve of the TP5X to a buddy that plays them.  I don’t plan to look any further I’m guessing my experience will be the same with any of the “premium” balls on the market. The MTBX is just that good and so predictable for me.  Hopefully Dean can survive the storm and come out on the other side!!

TP5X is a good ball, but man, the MTB-X can't be beat performance and price wise.  I got 5 dozen optic yellow MTB-X balls last month to restock my dwindling supply.  They do spin more with irons than my liking but check every other box for me.  Currently alternating between the MTB-X and left dash depending on course conditions. 

[flushem]

22 hours ago, Snell Golf said:

hello.   The get sum has been out of stock most of the year due to material shortages with the ionomers that make up the covers.   We have been working on this and hope to have GET SUM back in stock in a month or so.  Depends on how long it takes to be shipped, but almost ready to leave the factory.

Dean,

 

What is your forecast in ball market in 2022 and 2023?  I hear from various retailers that the demand had peaked and is slowing down in general.

[Snell Golf]

On 6/17/2022 at 1:46 PM, flushem said:

Dean,

 

What is your forecast in ball market in 2022 and 2023?  I hear from various retailers that the demand had peaked and is slowing down in general.

To be honest, it is tough to predict anything in golf at this time.  There are still huge issues with supply in all categories.   I do expect that there will be a slight decline in 2022 and another decline in 2023 due to some of these issues, as well as the uncertainty of the economy and inflation.   Golf gained over 800,000 new golfers during the pandemic, and most golf courses saw a huge increase in memberships and golfers.   When wages get tight, and people are forced to make some cuts, golf most likely will be cut for some people.  My honest prediction is that we will see things back to somewhat normal times by the end of 2023.

 

[Maverik]

On 6/4/2022 at 7:51 PM, CUBuffaloes said:

 

On 6/4/2022 at 1:50 AM, JCitW6855 said:

If you figure it in 5 dozen quantities which is what most people are looking for in this category it costs an extra $38 to to buy them 2 at a time. That’s worth a whole extra dozen of balls. 
 

I really, really, really want to use Snell balls unfortunately I just can’t make the price at low purchase quantities make sense against the other options available. Personally I would rather them be out of stock more often but when I catch them available be able to purchase higher volume to stock up and would be fine with a 5 dozen limit per order. I’m sure some don’t feel the same but I do believe a lot of people do.

 

I wish you luck with what ever path you take and hope to purchase a lot of golf balls from you in the future. 
 

+1  While I'd prefer to be able to get my Snell golf balls in the 5 pack at that quantity pricing plus the consolidated shipping price, I still appreciate that they are still considerably less expensive overall in the 2 pack quantity compared to non-DTC options. 

 

Golf balls seem to be going thru a very similar cycle to what 5.56 ammunition went thru last year.  And lots of people made the mistake of hording large quantities of 5.56 ammo at much higher prices per slug in order to keep shipping costs down - and then the price per slug dropped by 30-40%.  Hopefully Snell is able to get us back to the 5 packs sooner than later.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Maverik

[bekgolf]

FWIW balls can be ordered in 2 dozen increments with different colors.

 

I just ordered 2 dozen white, 2 dozen yellow, and two dozen sample packs for $31 per dozen and $12 shipping making the real price $33 per dozen for MTB Black and X delivered to me.

 

IMO the ball is worth it.

[ANimz]

Loved the Snell MTBX performance-wise.  The durability can be questionable.  But I stopped buying them when they jacked there prices up.  I looked yesterday to see what deals they had available, and it was $80 for 2 dozen at the cheapest shipping rate.  May as well buy a premium ball.  

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, ANimz said:

Loved the Snell MTBX performance-wise.  The durability can be questionable.  But I stopped buying them when they jacked there prices up.  I looked yesterday to see what deals they had available, and it was $80 for 2 dozen at the cheapest shipping rate.  May as well buy a premium ball.  

Or Vice or Maxfli…

[kevinmdowney]

Snell on my list to try this year…

 

Balls - Mid-Compression (85-90)

Maxfli Tour - $35

Snell MTB Black - $35

Vice Pro - $36

Quantix F18 Tour - $34

Trust Bison V - $35