Could a 12 handicapper....

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427765327' post='11249489']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427764713' post='11249405']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

ding ding ding !! ya man..... along those lines, a company like titleist will say that their MB irons are designed for the low handicapper and pros..they may say something like a 5 cap and lower.......why do they say that? well because they are designed for the low handicapper, and not for someone who isnt a really good ball striker.....for them to suggest otherwise would make them look and be foolish..the marketing part of that one is when they say something like..'you too can play what the pros play'..the blade 'pundents' (can i say pundents?) say that titleist has a lot of balls telling us what to play...blades really arent that hard to hit, and etc etc. farther along these lines is when posters here proclaim stock drivers shafts as all crap...that seems to have subsided thank goodness...like any respectable manufacturer would install a non performing shaft into one of their heads.

but yes, by all means, people should play w. whatever gear they want to for whatever reasons they want even if the reason isnt to play their best golf..it;s their money. but if they post bad info, they should expect to receive something contradictory in return
[/quote]


You know what..... I am going to put in a little plug in this..... I kinda agree... this is why.....


While Blades is the Ultimate of Shot control and ball flight.... Tech has really blended the line.....

The new CB's have workability, lets say 80% of the workability that a blade does....... any normal Sunday hacker can use that 80%

With the advancement of shafting, we can get a lower ball flight from just changing the shaft while getting the forgiveness factor....

Here is an example....


I used the excuse of playing blades because they launch lower than my JPXpros....

Now the Blades have X100s in them and the Mizuno's have Dynalits XP S300

Totally different shafts.... thats partly reason why the Mizunos go so high.

So if I put in some X100s or another type of lower launching shaft. I may be able to get the best of both worlds. The JPX's are still compact and low offset, and with the right shafting I can get a lower flight......with decent amount of workability...... Its not impossible to draw, hook, fade slice, the JPX's just because they are GI's......

so you are right.... a fitter would probably put them in a CB/GI with the right shafting rather then a straight in set of MB's

Titleist in a scene created their own demise, buy making the AP2....those are as blend GI/CB/MB as it gets..... pretty much the best of "all" worlds LOL
[/quote]

i think there are a variety of elements at play here......the changes in the balls over the years is huge! some combo of stuff allows us to hit a high ball which also pierces the wind pretty darn well.....unheard of a few years ago...thats prob why i saw many guys at the valero open just hitting those shots into the par 3 against the wind w. their stock high ball flight. also the newer balls are more low spinning on the driver but high spinning around the green...so they dont curve as easily...another reason to just play a stock shot whenever possible...less margin for error. there are exceptions of course....bubba can bend the ball like crazy and doesnt even use blades....if he was, he would be hitting boomerangs out there based on what you hear here about how blades are so much more workable.

anyway, if blades were no longer offered, golf wouldnt miss a beat....as soon as the prominent pros playing blades switch to cb's blades will be relegated to the classics section of this forum. that's what happened in tennis when federer stopped swinging blades..those heated blade 'discussions' about the wonderfulness of blades exist no more....and there is peace in the land.....

[tdelam]

Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.

[buzlin]

Then use an analogy, 22 yo asks "can a 22 yo date a stripper?" Answer: "'Nope, all the 38 yos who have much more life experience and are in successful marriages with 3 perfect kids and great careers are not in relationships with strippers, they're with the girl next door".

[Exactice808]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427768553' post='11249985']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427765327' post='11249489']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427764713' post='11249405']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

ding ding ding !! ya man..... along those lines, a company like titleist will say that their MB irons are designed for the low handicapper and pros..they may say something like a 5 cap and lower.......why do they say that? well because they are designed for the low handicapper, and not for someone who isnt a really good ball striker.....for them to suggest otherwise would make them look and be foolish..the marketing part of that one is when they say something like..'you too can play what the pros play'..the blade 'pundents' (can i say pundents?) say that titleist has a lot of balls telling us what to play...blades really arent that hard to hit, and etc etc. farther along these lines is when posters here proclaim stock drivers shafts as all crap...that seems to have subsided thank goodness...like any respectable manufacturer would install a non performing shaft into one of their heads.

but yes, by all means, people should play w. whatever gear they want to for whatever reasons they want even if the reason isnt to play their best golf..it;s their money. but if they post bad info, they should expect to receive something contradictory in return
[/quote]


You know what..... I am going to put in a little plug in this..... I kinda agree... this is why.....


While Blades is the Ultimate of Shot control and ball flight.... Tech has really blended the line.....

The new CB's have workability, lets say 80% of the workability that a blade does....... any normal Sunday hacker can use that 80%

With the advancement of shafting, we can get a lower ball flight from just changing the shaft while getting the forgiveness factor....

Here is an example....


I used the excuse of playing blades because they launch lower than my JPXpros....

Now the Blades have X100s in them and the Mizuno's have Dynalits XP S300

Totally different shafts.... thats partly reason why the Mizunos go so high.

So if I put in some X100s or another type of lower launching shaft. I may be able to get the best of both worlds. The JPX's are still compact and low offset, and with the right shafting I can get a lower flight......with decent amount of workability...... Its not impossible to draw, hook, fade slice, the JPX's just because they are GI's......

so you are right.... a fitter would probably put them in a CB/GI with the right shafting rather then a straight in set of MB's

Titleist in a scene created their own demise, buy making the AP2....those are as blend GI/CB/MB as it gets..... pretty much the best of "all" worlds LOL
[/quote]

i think there are a variety of elements at play here......the changes in the balls over the years is huge! some combo of stuff allows us to hit a high ball which also pierces the wind pretty darn well.....unheard of a few years ago...thats prob why i saw many guys at the valero open just hitting those shots into the par 3 against the wind w. their stock high ball flight. also the newer balls are more low spinning on the driver but high spinning around the green...so they dont curve as easily...another reason to just play a stock shot whenever possible...less margin for error. there are exceptions of course....bubba can bend the ball like crazy and doesnt even use blades....if he was, he would be hitting boomerangs out there based on what you hear here about how blades are so much more workable.

anyway, if blades were no longer offered, golf wouldnt miss a beat....as soon as the prominent pros playing blades switch to cb's blades will be relegated to the classics section of this forum. that's what happened in tennis when federer stopped swinging blades..those heated blade 'discussions' about the wonderfulness of blades exist no more....and there is peace in the land.....
[/quote]

T.Beau we dont always agree... but I agree with you... many factors at play so this is also one of the reasons why I think blades can be playable.....

People talk about swing speed with blades....well what if you put in some super light Senior shaft graphites in a set of MBs and use some Pinnacle Golds Soft....

couldnt that help someone?

Im sure it could.... the options are endless so ruling out any club now just because of your handicap I think is ignorant........ Try it, if it works... well great for you... if it doesnt.... well it aint going back into your bag until you learn how to use it.... or you give up using it period....

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427768920' post='11250061']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427768553' post='11249985']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427765327' post='11249489']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427764713' post='11249405']
[quote name='Hit em good' timestamp='1427763040' post='11249169']
A 12 cap would not be fitted for blades by any reputable fitter,because you'd be expected to get better results from a cb type club.
That said, play blades if you want to.... It's just a game.
[/quote]

ding ding ding !! ya man..... along those lines, a company like titleist will say that their MB irons are designed for the low handicapper and pros..they may say something like a 5 cap and lower.......why do they say that? well because they are designed for the low handicapper, and not for someone who isnt a really good ball striker.....for them to suggest otherwise would make them look and be foolish..the marketing part of that one is when they say something like..'you too can play what the pros play'..the blade 'pundents' (can i say pundents?) say that titleist has a lot of balls telling us what to play...blades really arent that hard to hit, and etc etc. farther along these lines is when posters here proclaim stock drivers shafts as all crap...that seems to have subsided thank goodness...like any respectable manufacturer would install a non performing shaft into one of their heads.

but yes, by all means, people should play w. whatever gear they want to for whatever reasons they want even if the reason isnt to play their best golf..it;s their money. but if they post bad info, they should expect to receive something contradictory in return
[/quote]


You know what..... I am going to put in a little plug in this..... I kinda agree... this is why.....


While Blades is the Ultimate of Shot control and ball flight.... Tech has really blended the line.....

The new CB's have workability, lets say 80% of the workability that a blade does....... any normal Sunday hacker can use that 80%

With the advancement of shafting, we can get a lower ball flight from just changing the shaft while getting the forgiveness factor....

Here is an example....


I used the excuse of playing blades because they launch lower than my JPXpros....

Now the Blades have X100s in them and the Mizuno's have Dynalits XP S300

Totally different shafts.... thats partly reason why the Mizunos go so high.

So if I put in some X100s or another type of lower launching shaft. I may be able to get the best of both worlds. The JPX's are still compact and low offset, and with the right shafting I can get a lower flight......with decent amount of workability...... Its not impossible to draw, hook, fade slice, the JPX's just because they are GI's......

so you are right.... a fitter would probably put them in a CB/GI with the right shafting rather then a straight in set of MB's

Titleist in a scene created their own demise, buy making the AP2....those are as blend GI/CB/MB as it gets..... pretty much the best of "all" worlds LOL
[/quote]

i think there are a variety of elements at play here......the changes in the balls over the years is huge! some combo of stuff allows us to hit a high ball which also pierces the wind pretty darn well.....unheard of a few years ago...thats prob why i saw many guys at the valero open just hitting those shots into the par 3 against the wind w. their stock high ball flight. also the newer balls are more low spinning on the driver but high spinning around the green...so they dont curve as easily...another reason to just play a stock shot whenever possible...less margin for error. there are exceptions of course....bubba can bend the ball like crazy and doesnt even use blades....if he was, he would be hitting boomerangs out there based on what you hear here about how blades are so much more workable.

anyway, if blades were no longer offered, golf wouldnt miss a beat....as soon as the prominent pros playing blades switch to cb's blades will be relegated to the classics section of this forum. that's what happened in tennis when federer stopped swinging blades..those heated blade 'discussions' about the wonderfulness of blades exist no more....and there is peace in the land.....
[/quote]

T.Beau we dont always agree... but I agree with you... many factors at play so this is also one of the reasons why I think blades can be playable.....

People talk about swing speed with blades....well what if you put in some super light Senior shaft graphites in a set of MBs and use some Pinnacle Golds Soft....

couldnt that help someone?

Im sure it could.... the options are endless so ruling out any club now just because of your handicap I think is ignorant........ Try it, if it works... well great for you... if it doesnt.... well it aint going back into your bag until you learn how to use it.... or you give up using it period....
[/quote]

it could maybe help someone, but all that stuff doesnt make the club have a larger sweetzone and i dont think blades come w. super lightweight graphite shafts, so you would need to spend more money and modify the clubs only to end up w. a lighter weight higher launching iron w. a small sweetzone..cant see the benefits, and cant see where more miss hits help anyone. better off to just buy some sort of cavity back.

as you stated earlier, there is a whole class of irons out there...i like to call them tweeners...they have GI features w. a thinner topline and narrower sole, an easier playing shaft, really nice ball feel, and a reasonably sized sweetzone....you can work them if you have the ability....lots of great irons to choose from these days which really do it all and are easier to play than blades

[Marand]

When I bought my irons I didn't take what was on the store rack, I ordered my clubs with the lighter weight shafts I preferred (no exotics of course). In no case was I charged extra for doing so.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1427769987' post='11250215']
...lots of great irons to choose from these days which really do it all and are easier to play than blades
[/quote]

Please share your side by side comparison of a tweener being easier to play than a blade. I would love to see how you can back this statement with personal experience. When was the last time you even played a blade to know it is so hard to hit?

FYI if a club is made to be just as workable as a blade, it is also going to be just as unforgiving. Feel may be different, but that is all. What the manufacturers have done is make the face of the cavity as inflexible as a blade (that's what the plastic insert does, FYI), so when you work the ball, the face flex characteristics are the same between a tweener and a blade. But since the face doesn't flex as much, it isn't any more forgiving either.

[BenHoganSlam1953]

[quote name='21degreeloft' timestamp='1427748395' post='11247483']
Play with these irons?

Callaway apex mb
Titleist mb
Taylormade TP MB
Mizuno mp-4
Callaway razr x MB
[/quote]

Well that depends on a lot of things, the least of which is the fact that those clubs are considered MBs.

First of all, you can ignore anyone that states since your game is not on the same level as professional golfers who are very capable of using MB clubs, that you have no business gaming similar clubs. If we allow this then by the same token most of use should not be gaming the same drivers, fairway woods, hybrids, wedges, putters, as well as shafts and balls that the pro's use. I've seen pro's with MB, CB, GI, SGI and XSGI clubs at various times. There are pro's with fast swing speeds that use lighter shafts like many of us. Shouldn't we all be gaming Pinnacle GOLD balls instead of the top-of-the-line professional OEM balls that most of us do.

Now I played stiff Kro-flite MB clubs when I was a kid for couple of seasons before getting side-tracked with life and as a result I tend to prefer how MB clubs sit at address, but I have a lot more choices now. Back then they were free, so either them or I did not play. But I remember the 3i, that no matter how well I hit it, it felt like hitting a cement wall with a sledge hammer.

Today we have so many choices. Remember that if you are focused on the offset then you will only see the offset. I have MP-32s and MP-53s. The 53s have a lot more offset, but the funny thing is, if I just play golf with them, I don't notice it. I am always looking for a club that gives more control, better flight, and lower scores. I've swung Ping I and G series 3/4 irons. When I only focus on how the club feels in my hands, the type of swing it encourages, can I square it on impact - then the amount of offset and club head size disappears in the end. So why do I not game those clubs, simple, I hit the S55 3i so much better (to my surprise) that I decided to stay with what I had.

When selecting a club focus more on the :[list]
[*]Feel of the club weight in your hands and the loading and unloading of the shaft during your swing (the stiffness ratings of shafts are irrelevant and totally stupid due to the fact that the industry has no standards between OEMs and possibly year to year with the way quality control is today) - go with what feels the best for you
[list]
[*]The shaft has a larger impact on how much we enjoy a particular club than most golfers realize, why else do they change shafts each time a new driver/FW wood is released, the head hasn't changed that much, but when golfers try out the new driver and go - wow so much better than last year - in truth, it is more than likely the different shaft that is so much better for them
[/list][*]When you check out club head designs, try not to focus on specific things, like off-set, instead does the overall package suit your eye and the performance of the club in your hands suit your game objectives (a very important factor you must balance)
[*]When considering offset, if it stills bothers you, be sure to actually look at the clubs and not only check out the specifications on the web.
[/list]
I've seen guys with SGI clubs hit straight bullets and others hit hooks and slices all day - so based on real life evidence - it appears the golfer has more of an impact than the club.

That being said, I have compared my 32s and 53s and the 53s did initially help reduce my misses a lot to the left/right, but as my swing evolved and misses to the left and right kept getting smaller, I found the 53s inconsistent in that every now and then I would get 15-20 yards extra and go over the green. Which is why I'm going to try my 32s again this spring, but it could still be a swing flaw which is why I recently acquired some Apex FTXs which have nice blend of GI/CB/MB.

Most important of all, keep an open mind and enjoy yourself, isn't that why we play golf in the first place?

[chocolatte]

Two ways to look at this:

Golf is a game. Do whatever you want as long as you are happy.

Golf is a game. Why make it less enjoyable by playing something more punishing on mishits.

Pick your side. There is no absolute right or wrong.

[Ozsouthpaw]

Think about your game. Are you a 12 going down or is 12 your mean average. As a 12 you hit greens less than six or seven times in regulation. Currently, exactly how many times do you use an iron when more than 140 yards out now . I'm betting not often aside from par threes and then you get extra leeway by teeing up.
Can you use MB's from 7 to pw ,no problem. Will your handicap improve? probably not.
The lower your handicap the less strokes you have to play around with and the more critical your iron play ,as a 12 you can stuff up 5 or 6 irons and still go ok.

[dunn]

[quote name='gmangolf' timestamp='1427749218' post='11247565']
This is a long-standing debate covered in many threads with much heated argument on both sides.

The answer is basically... maybe.

I tried going to blades as a 2 handicapper and quickly went back to cavity back irons, but that's just me.
[/quote]I am a 5 hdcp and just got a set of razr MB's 4-pw today....I am lil nervous to be honest, I too have experience with them b4 and know they can be handful......I myself have never seen a 12 hdcp who is solid ballstriker, not even close....right around scratch is where I have seen the difference between ballstriking....and MB's do require precision day in day out...cb's are easier but have bigger soles....control is a bigger issue than workability....watch any tournament and see how much ball moves on iron shots...3-5yds usually....because they can control it, start moving it 20 yds or more and you lose control...every iron I have used it was more than capable of producing any shot I ever needed...

Like a guy said above me...it's the swing that dictates the shot...the swing can manipulate the ball far more than any one head or shaft can do....anybody ever hit a 4 iron off a tee then use it later to punch under a tree?....no piece of equipment can alter the ballflight like the golfer himself can do if he hits it properly....

I love MB's. ..and now own a set (again) with no cb backup set... but I also know how demanding they can be...too many mishits and golf ceases to be fun, nobody could possibly be having fun hitting crappy shots all day....I certainly dont

[Matt J]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427768699' post='11250015']
Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.
[/quote]

You don't own a sand wedge?

[govols]

[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1427775961' post='11250785'][quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427768699' post='11250015']
Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.
[/quote]

You don't own a sand wedge?[/quote]

That's part of the delusion with blades. The lower clubs are gonna be more forgiving and most of your "average golfer" courses are gonna have mostly short iron and wedge approaches. Do a side by side with 4 and 5 irons and then you'll know if you're good enough.

*cue the 18 hc'er that plays from the 7600 yard tips. Oh wait he's still hitting wedges and short irons for his approaches. Lol

[cb24]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427762024' post='11248993']
In the long run, you'll screw up more of those than you pull off. Do me a favor. Play one round, just one, where you only hit at flags that are comfortable. Usually there will be about 4-6. The rest, hit to the center of the green. Let me know how it goes. Seriously, and non maliciously, I'm asking this. I think it will help you.
[/quote]

Why are you so obsessed with telling everyone how to play golf? Some people play better when they shape and some play better hitting it straighter. It can give someone more focus on their target and strategy when they shape more and others struggle more with that.

Tbh, posters like yourself are just so bizarre. So you shoot under par every round? Good for you, I hope you are playing tournaments and competing at the U.S. amateur or minimum the state am. If not then hey your prerogative. I went from around a 14 handicap to scratch in about 15 months, a big part was working on my chipping and putting and another thing that helped me was playing with MP68s. I loved the feel on good shots which gave me something to strive for and also I loved the workability. I got all the way down to a +3 and let people like yourself convince me I was losing strokes by playing blades. So I made the jump to AP2s and traded in my mizunos, no blades for a year. Well what happened? My handicap went up and I couldn't work the ball as well and my confidence went down. Is this what will happen with every person? Of course not, but I have played all my best rounds with blades, no question about it. That's me.

It just doesn't make any sense to discourage people the way you and other posters do.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427778024' post='11250883']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1427775961' post='11250785'][quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427768699' post='11250015']
Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.
[/quote]

You don't own a sand wedge?[/quote]

That's part of the delusion with blades. The lower clubs are gonna be more forgiving and most of your "average golfer" courses are gonna have mostly short iron and wedge approaches. Do a side by side with 4 and 5 irons and then you'll know if you're good enough.

*cue the 18 hc'er that plays from the 7600 yard tips. Oh wait he's still hitting wedges and short irons for his approaches. Lol
[/quote]
^ Cue the poster that can't resist mocking an 18 capper.

Do that same side by side above yourself using a blade, a tweener, an CB, and an SGI over a statistically valid number of shots and get back to us when you can prove a blade hurts your score compared to all the other iron types. If you throw in a hybrid or wood you may have a better point.

[govols]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427778483' post='11250921'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427778024' post='11250883']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1427775961' post='11250785'][quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427768699' post='11250015']
Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.
[/quote]

You don't own a sand wedge?[/quote]

That's part of the delusion with blades. The lower clubs are gonna be more forgiving and most of your "average golfer" courses are gonna have mostly short iron and wedge approaches. Do a side by side with 4 and 5 irons and then you'll know if you're good enough.

*cue the 18 hc'er that plays from the 7600 yard tips. Oh wait he's still hitting wedges and short irons for his approaches. Lol
[/quote]
^ Cue the poster that can't resist mocking an 18 capper.

Do that same side by side above yourself using a blade, a tweener, an CB, and an SGI over a statistically valid number of shots and get back to us when you can prove a blade hurts your score compared to all the other iron types. If you throw in a hybrid or wood you may have a better point.[/quote]

Scores are relative. If you're bad enough it doesn't matter what you use. That is a fact. In the end play what you want for whatever reason you want but the mindset that blades will help make you better isn't true at all.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427779711' post='11250975']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427778483' post='11250921'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427778024' post='11250883']
[quote name='Matt J' timestamp='1427775961' post='11250785'][quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427768699' post='11250015']
Funny thing, I've never actually hit a blade in my life, not even "just to try". Never had the desire to.
[/quote]

You don't own a sand wedge?[/quote]

That's part of the delusion with blades. The lower clubs are gonna be more forgiving and most of your "average golfer" courses are gonna have mostly short iron and wedge approaches. Do a side by side with 4 and 5 irons and then you'll know if you're good enough.

*cue the 18 hc'er that plays from the 7600 yard tips. Oh wait he's still hitting wedges and short irons for his approaches. Lol
[/quote]
^ Cue the poster that can't resist mocking an 18 capper.

Do that same side by side above yourself using a blade, a tweener, an CB, and an SGI over a statistically valid number of shots and get back to us when you can prove a blade hurts your score compared to all the other iron types. If you throw in a hybrid or wood you may have a better point.[/quote]

Scores are relative. If you're bad enough it doesn't matter what you use. That is a fact. In the end play what you want for whatever reason you want but the mindset that blades will help make you better isn't true at all.
[/quote]

The difficulty of playing a blade is relative. If you have a negative attitude about them, you won't play them well. That is a fact. In the end you cannot prove a blade hurts your score for all golfers. That is a fact too. You can make any excuses not to play blades yourself but you cannot prove you are correct over other golfers including 12 handicaps that play blades best for their games.

It was and is still true to me that I can shoot my personal bests with my blades. That is very true. I'm not going to claim they make me better all the time, but the last 8 years has told me they don't hurt my score any worse than a CB and furthermore they just a tad better than the CBs on my good days.

Maybe if you weren't so negative about them you would have an easier time playing them. Just a suggestion.

[govols]

Lol.....whatever

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='cb24' timestamp='1427778476' post='11250919']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427762024' post='11248993']
In the long run, you'll screw up more of those than you pull off. Do me a favor. Play one round, just one, where you only hit at flags that are comfortable. Usually there will be about 4-6. The rest, hit to the center of the green. Let me know how it goes. Seriously, and non maliciously, I'm asking this. I think it will help you.
[/quote]

Why are you so obsessed with telling everyone how to play golf? Some people play better when they shape and some play better hitting it straighter. It can give someone more focus on their target and strategy when they shape more and others struggle more with that.

Tbh, posters like yourself are just so bizarre. So you shoot under par every round? Good for you, I hope you are playing tournaments and competing at the U.S. amateur or minimum the state am. If not then hey your prerogative. I went from around a 14 handicap to scratch in about 15 months, a big part was working on my chipping and putting and another thing that helped me was playing with MP68s. I loved the feel on good shots which gave me something to strive for and also I loved the workability. I got all the way down to a +3 and let people like yourself convince me I was losing strokes by playing blades. So I made the jump to AP2s and traded in my mizunos, no blades for a year. Well what happened? My handicap went up and I couldn't work the ball as well and my confidence went down. Is this what will happen with every person? Of course not, but I have played all my best rounds with blades, no question about it. That's me.

It just doesn't make any sense to discourage people the way you and other posters do.
[/quote]

Lol. This is the only thread I've posted extensively in, in 3 years. Doesn't seem too obsessed to me. And again, as I've said a million times, I haven't said don't shape shots, I've said work it one way predominantly.

Discouraging has nothing to do with it. I've suggested to one poster that is a mid handicap to try a different strategy for one round. Lol. Yea, ok I'm so obsessed, play golf this way!!! Lol.

See Exactice808's "have I noticed something..." Thread. You sound like golfer number 2.

[BMC]

Blades vs. SGI/GI?

Would you drive a nail with a hammer or a shovel?

The concentrated mass of a well designed blade will hit the ball more solidly, if you hit it reasonably close to the center. More like the hammer vs. the shovel.

There are many different blade designs. Some will have the muscle lower to help elevate. Some will have more mass on the toe to help with toe shots.

There's a lot of variables with this debate. But it's educational for some.

[21degreeloft]

Looks like I opened up quite a debate... Thanks again for all the input.

To give a bit of background of why I'm looking to try these clubs...

When I first started playing regularly 4 or 5 years ago I picked up some what I remember to be muscle back clubs- think they were made by srixon(was new to the game so didn't pay much attention)... Used them for 6 months or so then sold them on eBay to buy game improvement irons. Thing is I have not hit the ball as well since... Or should I say I have not enjoyed the feeling of the strike as well since....and I don't remember them being any harder to hit that the various cb irons I've played since

Waiting for payday then will let you know what I get and how I get on!

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
for the last 8 years I have been playing [u][b]MP-60s and MP-67[/b][/u]s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts.
[/quote]


The MP-60 is virtually a blade. The cavity is VERY small. Check the Malty data comparing against the MP-67. The MOI is higher and the CG lower on the MP-67 (blade) compared to the minimal cavity on the 60.. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf"]http://www.golfworks.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/url]

Bottom line, your comparison data is suspect. You can not make a meaningful comparison between CB and Blade by comparing MP-60 with MP-67 since the spec difference between them are minimal. If anything your data suggest a higher MOI club with lower CG improved your performance. Cavity vs. blade be damned. It's the specs that matter, not the shape of the back of the club.

[Golf64]

AP2, i25s. Step away from the 'blades'. Sorry!

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1427804544' post='11251629']
Blades vs. SGI/GI?

Would you drive a nail with a hammer or a shovel?

The concentrated mass of a well designed blade will hit the ball more solidly, if you hit it reasonably close to the center. More like the hammer vs. the shovel.

There are many different blade designs. Some will have the muscle lower to help elevate. Some will have more mass on the toe to help with toe shots.

There's a lot of variables with this debate. But it's educational for some.
[/quote]

It's probably more like driving a nail with a hammer vs. driving a nail with a smaller hammer. Don't you think?

After all, irons categorically are designed to do the same thing. The shovel and hammer have different purposes.

[robrey85]

I'm a 14 and play MP69s. I really love the feel and feedback I get from them. I bought them because I was in a rutt and I thought they'd be a perfect tool for igniting my fire to practice more and improve. I've done so and it might do the same for you. I will tell you after playing these for a year, I can't stand the thicker top sole and bulky design of SGI/GI irons.

[tdelam]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427805792' post='11251723']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
for the last 8 years I have been playing [u][b]MP-60s and MP-67[/b][/u]s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts.
[/quote]


The MP-60 is virtually a blade. The cavity is VERY small. Check the Malty data comparing against the MP-67. The MOI is higher and the CG lower on the MP-67 (blade) compared to the minimal cavity on the 60.. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf"]http://www.golfworks.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/url]

Bottom line, your comparison data is suspect. You can not make a meaningful comparison between CB and Blade by comparing MP-60 with MP-67 since the spec difference between them are minimal. If anything your data suggest a higher MOI club with lower CG improved your performance. Cavity vs. blade be damned. It's the specs that matter, not the shape of the back of the club.
[/quote]

The data on this site is nonsense. The s56 has a high MOI and categorized as a Game Improvement as well as the s55... lol... take this MOi data with a grain of salt

[BMC]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427806085' post='11251743']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1427804544' post='11251629']
Blades vs. SGI/GI?

Would you drive a nail with a hammer or a shovel?

The concentrated mass of a well designed blade will hit the ball more solidly, if you hit it reasonably close to the center. More like the hammer vs. the shovel.

There are many different blade designs. Some will have the muscle lower to help elevate. Some will have more mass on the toe to help with toe shots.

There's a lot of variables with this debate. But it's educational for some.
[/quote]

It's probably more like driving a nail with a hammer vs. driving a nail with a smaller hammer. Don't you think?

After all, irons categorically are designed to do the same thing. The shovel and hammer have different purposes.
[/quote]

True. Just trying to illustrate the point.

Bottom line, if you want to lower your scoring substantially, you need hit near the center of the face - WITH ANY IRON.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427805792' post='11251723']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
for the last 8 years I have been playing [u][b]MP-60s and MP-67[/b][/u]s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts.
[/quote]


The MP-60 is virtually a blade. The cavity is VERY small. Check the Malty data comparing against the MP-67. The MOI is higher and the CG lower on the MP-67 (blade) compared to the minimal cavity on the 60.. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf"]http://www.golfworks.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/url]

Bottom line, your comparison data is suspect. You can not make a meaningful comparison between CB and Blade by comparing MP-60 with MP-67 since the spec difference between them are minimal. If anything your data suggest a higher MOI club with lower CG improved your performance. Cavity vs. blade be damned. It's the specs that matter, not the shape of the back of the club.
[/quote]
Same goes for all the tweener irons including Bubbas then.

The mp60 was marketed up to an 8 index which I clearly was. The mp67 was marketed to much lower indexes. There were clearly two skill level golfers that each type was aimed at. Yet at the 8 index I did not shoot better with the CBs.

You cannot bring ANY experience like mine to the the table.

Oh and I played an SGI hybrid 3i and 4i too for a season with clearly different specs than the mp60 and mp67s and those clubs were the absolute worst for my swing and scores. My handicap got WORSE when I played those clubs. FYI I posted this before and you must have missed it otherwise you would not have made your point.

Where is your non suspect data to prove your points?

The manufacturers handicap charts vs iron type is just as suspect since they didn't use any scoring data to create it either.

Keep trying to prove your own points with anecdotal observation.

Nobody can outright prove all 12 indexes play worse with blades.

[Nessism]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427809949' post='11252113']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427805792' post='11251723']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
for the last 8 years I have been playing [u][b]MP-60s and MP-67[/b][/u]s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts.
[/quote]


The MP-60 is virtually a blade. The cavity is VERY small. Check the Malty data comparing against the MP-67. The MOI is higher and the CG lower on the MP-67 (blade) compared to the minimal cavity on the 60.. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf"]http://www.golfworks.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/url]

Bottom line, your comparison data is suspect. You can not make a meaningful comparison between CB and Blade by comparing MP-60 with MP-67 since the spec difference between them are minimal. If anything your data suggest a higher MOI club with lower CG improved your performance. Cavity vs. blade be damned. It's the specs that matter, not the shape of the back of the club.
[/quote]

The data on this site is nonsense. The s56 has a high MOI and categorized as a Game Improvement as well as the s55... lol... take this MOi data with a grain of salt
[/quote]

The data is not nonsense. You just need to learn how to interpret it. MOI and CG height is actual measurement data and very useful to understand how the club will perform. The only suspect aspect is Maltby's MPF business. You can call BS on this business if you want and I won't argue since it's based on Maltby's opinion on what characteristics are important.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1427809949' post='11252113']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427805792' post='11251723']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427765343' post='11249491']
for the last 8 years I have been playing [u][b]MP-60s and MP-67[/b][/u]s with the EXACT same lofts, lies, weights, and shafts.
[/quote]


The MP-60 is virtually a blade. The cavity is VERY small. Check the Malty data comparing against the MP-67. The MOI is higher and the CG lower on the MP-67 (blade) compared to the minimal cavity on the 60.. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf"]http://www.golfworks.../MPF_MIZUNO.pdf[/url]

Bottom line, your comparison data is suspect. You can not make a meaningful comparison between CB and Blade by comparing MP-60 with MP-67 since the spec difference between them are minimal. If anything your data suggest a higher MOI club with lower CG improved your performance. Cavity vs. blade be damned. It's the specs that matter, not the shape of the back of the club.
[/quote]

The data on this site is nonsense. The s56 has a high MOI and categorized as a Game Improvement as well as the s55... lol... take this MOi data with a grain of salt
[/quote]
MOI = the most meaningless gauge of forgiveness ever invented.