Tiger shoots 85.

[tgreenwood11]

I just don't see how he will ever play consistently with the head bobbing up and down on his long clubs.

[biphmateen]

Forgot to mention one other thing. On the range, Tiger kept changing gloves and would give his usual grimace showing that he was in pain. Saw it on the course a couple times as well. Heard he had a blister on his hand. Was waiting for that to be the latest excuse.

[Smith65]

[quote name='TCWhite' timestamp='1433642450' post='11703502']
History was made today, Tiger shoots his worst game ever and we have a triple crown winner! I wonder if they're somehow connected...
[/quote]


Horses for Courses.

[Smith65]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1433647080' post='11703882']
tigerwrx

Amount of thought/writing devoted to TW is remarkable.

And touching.
[/quote]


Really? REALLY? Ninety percent of your posts are about TW and you are claiming some sort of moral high ground here? That is rich.

[3_Putt_Par]

Karma.

[Barnum]

Can someone refresh my memory ?

If I remember well, 4 mounths ago Tiger was supposed to be done because of chipping YIPS that everyone said that can't be overcome.
He told everyone it was only a technical problem and no one believed him.
And if my mind does't play tricks on me, last times I saw Tiger played his short game was pretty spot on particularly on courses known to be short game killers !

So, yesterday Tiger shot 85 after making the cut in the same event where Jason Day didn't.
And of course the same people now say he's done because he can't drive...

Is it a pattern here or it is just me ?

[MMB1500]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433679001' post='11704830']
Can someone refresh my memory ?

If I remember well, 4 mounths ago Tiger was supposed to be done because of chipping YIPS that everyone said that can't be overcome.
He told everyone it was only a technical problem and no one believed him.
And if my mind does't play tricks on me, last times I saw Tiger played his short game was pretty spot on particularly on courses known to be short game killers !

So, yesterday Tiger shot 85 after making the cut in the same event where Jason Day didn't.
And of course the same people now say he's done because he can't drive...

Is it a pattern here or it is just me ?
[/quote]

The only pattern here is Woods' woeful play. You also must have missed the chip he fatted yesterday and which subsequently rolled 20 yards back down the fairway.

Also, if you read the thread properly, people are saying Woods is done for a multitude of reasons, not just his driving.

[braincramp52]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433679001' post='11704830']
Can someone refresh my memory ?

If I remember well, 4 mounths ago Tiger was supposed to be done because of chipping YIPS that everyone said that can't be overcome.
He told everyone it was only a technical problem and no one believed him.
And if my mind does't play tricks on me, last times I saw Tiger played his short game was pretty spot on particularly on courses known to be short game killers !

So, yesterday Tiger shot 85 after making the cut in the same event where Jason Day didn't.
And of course the same people now say he's done because he can't drive...

Is it a pattern here or it is just me ?
[/quote]


Did you see his short game yesterday ?

[Smith65]

His short game was non existant yesterday.

[Barnum]

Ok So Tiger played 4 rounds at the Masters, 4 rounds at the Players and two rounds at the Memorial with above average short game.
Then he has one bad round where is amount of concentration of the 18th hole should be close to 0 and everyone remember only that hole.

Clearly, i am not the one with memory issues.

[glk]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1433650333' post='11704062']
[quote name='glk' timestamp='1433646007' post='11703810']
[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1433645371' post='11703774']
[quote name='glk' timestamp='1433626294' post='11702174']
[quote name='bullie76' timestamp='1433618135' post='11701570']
Think about this. Like Tiger, Seve was never a great driver but he only got worse after the age of 40. I know Tiger has been great and many have thought if anyone can recapture the magic, it will be him. I just don't see it. I never have been a Tiger fan, but I admit I hate to see him go out this way.
[/quote]

Tiger was a great driver (combing accuracy and distance he was clearly the best) from 1997-2002 (even was pretty good in 2003 at 62% fairways hit. Wheels came off with Haney and have stayed off and only gotten worse, obviously.
[/quote]

Ummm...no...go and look at his stats. His ball striking under Haney was nothing short of astounding and as a result, his winning percentage was higher under Haney. He won the US Open on a broken leg under Haney, took 9 months off for rehab, then won six events the following season. He was fine...the choke in the PGA vs Yang, and then the scandal is what started the decline.
[/quote]
Talking about his driving and not his iron play,short game, or putting. His decline strted in nj when feel to his knees after hitting his 5 wood.
[/quote]
It was under Haney when he finally switched to a longer driver, and that accounts for the drop in accuracy from the tee. However, his GIR stats are through the roof, which means even when he was missing fairways, he was missing them in the right spot. Therefore, you can't conclude that his ability with the driver was in decline due to Hank Haney.
[/quote]

His GIR under Haney was worse than under Harmon - something like 71% to 69% - and given the extra driver length he was almost 10 yards longer under Haney than Harmon - and yet he still couldn't hit more GIRs - one year he average 316 off the tee - he never averaged better than 298/299 under Harmon. Then under Haney he started to use his 3 wood more on tee shots (and he overall distance averages for the last few years under Haney dropped a lot - and he still couldn't hit better than 57% fairways. Face it Butch tried to get Tiger to go to the graphite shafted driver in 1998 or so but Tiger being the stubborn person he appears to be wouldn't budge -wasn't until the field started passing him in distance that he changed - but with his swing under Harmon he might not have averaged over 70% fairways hit (under Haney it was around 56%) and I imagine it would have been at least in the mid to high 60%s (but we'll never know). Even today with the disaster that Tiger is off the tee, he still has a pretty decent iron game - and he did under Foley too. The iron game (and recovery shots) have nothing to do with his driver swing especially for a guy that hit greens from places on courses that are unimaginable, at times.

Though the common thread with Tiger is that as the field caught and passed him on distance off the tee - he reacted by doing things to attempt to regain that distance gap - it certainly shows in the swings he puts on with the driver in hand (and he never had to do that under Harmon since he reigned supreme) - but in iron play it's rarely about pure power and distance and mostly distance control and accuracy - again under Haney and Foley his iron play was top knotch - but that alien jumps into his body on the tee.

[KYMAR]

OK, he doesn't have the chipping yips. His short game just sucks. is that really the sycophant preferred reality?

[Trane5]

[quote name='biphmateen' timestamp='1433677952' post='11704790']I was there yesterday. Stood right behind Tiger on the range and overall, he hit it great. But as usual, he went to the first tee and pushed it way right and went downhill from there.

Also had an Urban Meyer sighting. Someone said that he lived on the course. While following Tiger in the 7th fairway I look to my left and here comes Urban through his backyard on to the course. Fans started running up to him to shake his hand. He had to push his way through the people to get to the golf action.

A funny story from the practice range. While Spieth was warming up, Todd Lewis from GC was to the side of the range talking to the camera. Spieth started hitting roughly 40 yard pitch shots that he was trying to bounce off the cart path into Lewis. On his fourth try he hit a perfect bounce shot off the path into the back of Lewis ' legs. Everyone was laughing.[/quote]

Love that Spieth story......he's going to be another Texas Legend!!!

[billh17]

[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1433625785' post='11702126']
And of course he never talks to reporters when he has a bad round

The guy has never had any class
[/quote]

Is that you Dan ?

[Barnum]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1433680262' post='11704890']
OK, he doesn't have the chipping yips. [b]His short game just sucks[/b]. is that really the sycophant preferred reality?
[/quote]

Really ? At least try to back up your statement with stats. Good luck with that.

[Barnum]

He has big issues with driving right now. Should be his priority to fix.

[golfinray]

I have learned the hard way in life that everything comes to an end sooner or later.

Maybe it is Tiger's time, maybe not.

Once in my life, many years ago, I had come to the end of my golf "rope."

I spent six weeks out in a field, by myself, with a shag bag.

Got my head clear - got back to just hitting the ball with a stick like a kid.

Got uncomplicated.

One thing came out of that for me: do less. Think less. Worry less.

I believe that may be what Tiger needs.

[Will Par]

My thoughts. Tiger has already heard everything Butch has to say, Both Butch and Tiger know that. Butch is not the solution to the challenges Tiger faces. The idea of going to a fairway wood off the tee to keep the ball in play is ridiculous. He hits his fairway woods into the rough as often as the driver. Plus he'll lose distance to the field every time he does that. Just not a feasible solution. So what is his problem?

Tiger no longer has the mental focus to turn things around when it starts going bad. The 8 on the final hole was nothing more that total lack of focus on the shots he was playing. Two bogies early in the round, followed later by a double shows that lack of focus. Either something is going on in his life (kids, relationships, etc.) or he is still battling injuries. Personal problems and injuries can take a huge mental toll. To play golf at the highest level requires a tremendous level of mental focus. Age is certainly a factor too.

The fact that Tiger can still putt fantastically shows he has his mental focus on the greens. And there will be good days when he plays well because he can focus on the entire game. But doing that for 72 holes is his challenge now. He's at a stage where he is going to have difficulty staying focused some days. He's reached the time in his life where he will play with guys who are stronger mentally than he is now. Those are the challenges that he has to deal with. I think we'll continue to see both the good rounds and the bad rounds. We won't ever see the full package again that once was Tiger Woods.

[braincramp52]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433680526' post='11704908']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1433680262' post='11704890']
OK, he doesn't have the chipping yips. [b]His short game just sucks[/b]. is that really the sycophant preferred reality?
[/quote]

Really ? At least try to back up your statement with stats. Good luck with that.
[/quote]

All you need is a pair of eyes ( or one good one ) to know what Tigers short game is like. No stats needed. In fact although I have no way to prove it, I would bet even Tiger would say his short game has sucked this year.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433680526' post='11704908']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1433680262' post='11704890']
OK, he doesn't have the chipping yips. [b]His short game just sucks[/b]. is that really the sycophant preferred reality?
[/quote]

Really ? At least try to back up your statement with stats. Good luck with that.
[/quote]

You need a statistical analysis of what is plain to see with your eyes? Take off the Sunday red tinted glasses and have a look for yourself.

[MMB1500]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433680125' post='11704874']
Ok So Tiger played 4 rounds at the Masters, 4 rounds at the Players and two rounds at the Memorial with above average short game.
Then he has one bad round where is amount of concentration of the 18th hole should be close to 0 and everyone remember only that hole.

Clearly, i am not the one with memory issues.
[/quote]

OK, so you seem to think Woods' short game is back to where it needs to be, given that he made it through the Masters without any horrific chunks. You're also upset at the fact people have said Woods is done because of his driving.

I'm curious to know then, if his short game and driving are so stellar, how do you explain his 85 yesterday? Which particular aspect of his game do you think needs work, or is your myopia so deep rooted that you think his game is first class in every department?

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote]
His GIR under Haney was worse than under Harmon - something like 71% to 69% - and given the extra driver length he was almost 10 yards longer under Haney than Harmon - and yet he still couldn't hit more GIRs - one year he average 316 off the tee - he never averaged better than 298/299 under Harmon. Then under Haney he started to use his 3 wood more on tee shots (and he overall distance averages for the last few years under Haney dropped a lot - and he still couldn't hit better than 57% fairways. Face it Butch tried to get Tiger to go to the graphite shafted driver in 1998 or so but Tiger being the stubborn person he appears to be wouldn't budge -wasn't until the field started passing him in distance that he changed - but with his swing under Harmon he might not have averaged over 70% fairways hit (under Haney it was around 56%) and I imagine it would have been at least in the mid to high 60%s (but we'll never know). Even today with the disaster that Tiger is off the tee, he still has a pretty decent iron game - and he did under Foley too. The iron game (and recovery shots) have nothing to do with his driver swing especially for a guy that hit greens from places on courses that are unimaginable, at times.

Though the common thread with Tiger is that as the field caught and passed him on distance off the tee - he reacted by doing things to attempt to regain that distance gap - it certainly shows in the swings he puts on with the driver in hand (and he never had to do that under Harmon since he reigned supreme) - but in iron play it's rarely about pure power and distance and mostly distance control and accuracy - again under Haney and Foley his iron play was top knotch - but that alien jumps into his body on the tee.
[/quote]

Try again...

2005 - GIR - 69.89%, Rank = 6th
2006- GIR - 74.15%, Rank - 1st
2007 - GIR - 71.02%, Rank - 1st
2008 - GIR - 71.39%, Rank - 1st
2009 - GIR - 68.46%, Rank - 16th (after 9 month layoff from surgery)

Fairways hit ranged from low of 54.58% in 2005 when he switched to longer driver and was 2nd in driving distance to 64.29% in 2009. Remember, the knee was giving him trouble in 2007 before it finally gave out in 2008. Under Haney, he had a one-way miss to the right, which is why he was a more consistent player.

A telling stat is his strokes gained tee to green... he ranked 4th in 2005, 1st in 2006 and 2007, unranked in 2008 due to short season, but his figure was still comparable to the previous years, and then 1st in 2009.

The numbers don't lie, and they can all be found on PGAtour.com

[Barnum]

Driving is awfull right now. At least try to read what I wrote.

I just say that like is short game, it can be fix. Either it will or not I don't know, but so callled forum experts that are SURE what will happen make me laugh

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='Barnum' timestamp='1433679001' post='11704830']
Can someone refresh my memory ?

If I remember well, 4 mounths ago Tiger was supposed to be done because of chipping YIPS that everyone said that can't be overcome.
He told everyone it was only a technical problem and no one believed him.
And if my mind does't play tricks on me, last times I saw Tiger played his short game was pretty spot on particularly on courses known to be short game killers !

So, yesterday Tiger shot 85 after making the cut in the same event where Jason Day didn't.
And of course the same people now say he's done because he can't drive...

Is it a pattern here or it is just me ?
[/quote]

You can probably have just about any seat you want on the bandwagon at this point.

[nicebutdim]

I personally don't care if he comes back or not from a tour point of view. He has already been wildly successful and he has suffered with injuries from his commitment to it. And I don't think he can really come back from this in any profound way. People suggesting what he need to change tactically in his game are correct, but that just isn't Tiger. Its all or nothing with him really.

On a personal level however I wish him the best and hope he can find some achievement on the course again. If not then he can retire with his legacy and record firmly established.

[Barnum]

Jason Sobel ‏@JasonSobelESPN 2 minil y a 2 minutesVoir la traduction

Tiger Woods is 1-under through seven holes. Swing looks good. Temperament is even. It's like yesterday's 85 was one big, ugly mirage.

[glk]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1433682556' post='11705002']
[quote]
His GIR under Haney was worse than under Harmon - something like 71% to 69% - and given the extra driver length he was almost 10 yards longer under Haney than Harmon - and yet he still couldn't hit more GIRs - one year he average 316 off the tee - he never averaged better than 298/299 under Harmon. Then under Haney he started to use his 3 wood more on tee shots (and he overall distance averages for the last few years under Haney dropped a lot - and he still couldn't hit better than 57% fairways. Face it Butch tried to get Tiger to go to the graphite shafted driver in 1998 or so but Tiger being the stubborn person he appears to be wouldn't budge -wasn't until the field started passing him in distance that he changed - but with his swing under Harmon he might not have averaged over 70% fairways hit (under Haney it was around 56%) and I imagine it would have been at least in the mid to high 60%s (but we'll never know). Even today with the disaster that Tiger is off the tee, he still has a pretty decent iron game - and he did under Foley too. The iron game (and recovery shots) have nothing to do with his driver swing especially for a guy that hit greens from places on courses that are unimaginable, at times.

Though the common thread with Tiger is that as the field caught and passed him on distance off the tee - he reacted by doing things to attempt to regain that distance gap - it certainly shows in the swings he puts on with the driver in hand (and he never had to do that under Harmon since he reigned supreme) - but in iron play it's rarely about pure power and distance and mostly distance control and accuracy - again under Haney and Foley his iron play was top knotch - but that alien jumps into his body on the tee.
[/quote]

Try again...

2005 - GIR - 69.89%, Rank = 6th
2006- GIR - 74.15%, Rank - 1st
2007 - GIR - 71.02%, Rank - 1st
2008 - GIR - 71.39%, Rank - 1st
2009 - GIR - 68.46%, Rank - 16th (after 9 month layoff from surgery)

Fairways hit ranged from low of 54.58% in 2005 when he switched to longer driver and was 2nd in driving distance to 64.29% in 2009. Remember, the knee was giving him trouble in 2007 before it finally gave out in 2008. Under Haney, he had a one-way miss to the right, which is why he was a more consistent player.

A telling stat is his strokes gained tee to green... he ranked 4th in 2005, 1st in 2006 and 2007, unranked in 2008 due to short season, but his figure was still comparable to the previous years, and then 1st in 2009.

The numbers don't lie, and they can all be found on PGAtour.com
[/quote]
I got my numbers from PGA tour too. You can cherry pick his best numbers but from 1997-2003 Tiger averaged 71.28% GIR - averaged Under Haney it was 69.4% Given 10 more yards off the tee.
Obviously we disagree. And again, the dicussion was on driving accuracy not GIRs.

[glk]

On another note, deadman makes the turn at -2 after birdies on 3 of his last 5 holes. Hit 6/8 faiways and 6/9 GIR.

[Barnum]

On the 10th : [list]
[*][color=#000000]Shot 1 336 yds to right fairway, 125 yds to hole[/color]
[/list]

[imrede4glf]

[quote name='WolfWRX' timestamp='1433676863' post='11704730']
[quote name='imrede4glf' timestamp='1433672169' post='11704610']
Nicklaus still thinks he can make it back. I'll go with Nicklaus everytime
[/quote]

To be fair, what else is Nicklaus going to say? He's hardly likely to write Woods off in public, regardless of what he actually thinks. Can you imagine the sh!t storm if he did!?

Then again, a comment from Nicklaus along the lines of "Woods is a hopeless washed up has-been - no way he'll ever beat my record" might actually provide Woods with the drive and motivation he currently appears to be lacking.
[/quote]