Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[scomac2002]

Wriggs; I appreciate the good wishes. Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll come out the other side of this better for the experience.

 

It may not make me a better golfer, but hopefully a more appreciative person of what is right with the world and what is truly important.

[Reasonability]

Last one and I'll STFU - :)

 

Amid much of my often times posts out of left field, I do want you guys to know I'm also listening. Believe it or not.

 

Tol has recently awakened me. Had no idea I could paint and trim an entire home for the cost of row tubes of his oil paint. Eye-opening.

 

I both respect and empathize with Radro's retirement being met with easing back into golf. His life, his home, his wife, and the season all need to be prioritized and he's doing exactly that.

 

Scotee - Semi retired, traveling, sharing, and helping lead the charge on new/better divot rules!

 

Wrings - The flu will never infect the spirit. The cost will always keep his club acquisition in balance.

 

Hank - Taking time to express a kindness from afar - which keeps him somehow near.

 

Fella - Yes that pic comes at the perfect cabin fever moment. Also aware each day is just that little bit longer.

 

Scomacer - Realistic about his personal property goals, his spine, and winter - BUT throwing in NO towels at all. It's inspiring to hear how he continues exploring how to adapt in a thumbs-up way. Negativity not in the equation. So cool.

 

Sixty - shares the skies with his son and the birds. He's about to be as free as a bird soon. Free to post more interesting, on-point, pics and vids. Humor always in the mix.

 

Bill - Never that far from sneaking in a round, a club test update, a sharing from his life and past that helps us look forward.

 

Stu - If you find nothing of interest in his sharing, the Grille just isn't the place for you.

 

And all semi-regulars (or regulars I've overlooked amid a senior moment)... I appologize but know you matter very much as well.

 

 

///////////////////////

 

Now and then, we sit here and find ourselves being addressed via posts from a new person to the Grille. Now and then, a poster sort of screws up his/her courage and participates. COOL!!!!!

 

FOR THE RECORD - This is NOT a closed society. So come one - come all. The cost and dues are ZERO. The door is wide open and seats at this table are plentiful. The personalities, swings, preferences, home geographies are varied. The tie that binds is good clean, honest fun. Feel free to pull up a chair just as others have done along the way. We bounce around from topic to topic quite a bit. Prolly seems a little too chaotic to many in one sense. But that's part of what keeps it interesting. :).

 

 

[Fellaheen51]

Shafts. Based on my unfounded research. Have to consider suitability and preferences for each club segment (i.e Driver, Fairway, Hybrids, Irons). Of the belief that determining a suitable weight is of paramount importance. Especially for irons. And by extension, overall club weight. No rule of thumb here, everyone's so different on what they are looking for in iron shafts. Personally, I've been on a mission to lighten up. Finding that an iron of lighter weight is easier to swing, less fatiguing over the round, and will still provide me with acceptable accuracy. More so now than ever, as I've gotten older, SS in decline. Why I performed testing last fall on whether I could live with ~ 70 g graphites. My belief based on observation is that I can. May sing a different tune after several months of play with the new iron set so equipped. Additionally, some use shaft weight to assist in controlling tempo. Typically a relatively heavier shaft. Likely valid. However, a heavy shaft becomes fatiguing in the later stages of a round for me. And with fatigue comes sloppiness in maintaining some measure of consistency during the swing. I rather learn to keep my swing under control , than muscle a to heavy of an iron shaft. Likely do to age more than anything these days.

 

Once one determines a weight category, that culls the herd down into manageable quantities. Would not concern myself with torque numbers, there are going to be relatively the same across different manufacturers in the same category. You will begin to see a pattern. Of course steel has the lowest torque of all. Never seen much difference in trajectory based on the shaft installed. Example: Trying to make the Maltby TE demo club to work, installed TT XP 95, Rifle 5.5, TTDG R300 and lastly the Grafalloy PL Red graphite. None of them changed the high ball flight significantly. Club head design (VCOG) and loft were more of a factor in causing to high of a trajectory to be suitable. Head and shaft are not independent of one another, but one needs to consider the two separately as they meld together.

 

Length is important for some of us. Ground already covered. I dislike playing clubs to short. My single most important factor for fitting myself into irons. Further, to keep long irons a manageable playing length, going to 3/8" progressions has merit. Of the opinion that it's the only way to go using steel at longer than standard playing lengths. Find the comfortable playing length in your 8/9 iron, 3/8" steps from there. Perhaps even going with 1/4" progressions. If you're using long irons, makes them easier to swing by keep the playing length and SW manageable.

 

Common knowledge that shaft stiffness between brands and models are inconsistent. Long gone are the days of Rifle shafts where one could half flex shafts (i.e. 5.0 to 5.5). And a label affixed with the stated oscillation frequency. A stiff shaft in one model (Nippon 950) is going to feel a lot different than a stiff in another (TTDG). Have a couple stiff Nippon's mixed with regular in the Hogan's. When playing them, honestly cannot tell the difference. Let dispersion results be your guidance in determining flex in iron shafts. Can even play around with soft/hard stepping .355 shafts or modifying tip trim if using .370.

 

Takes a willingness to do some educated experimentation. Or spend time on a launch monitor with a compliment of various shafts to test. Which usually entail paying for the privilege. I'm not that good of a player to feel minor differences in one shaft vs. another. Getting close is usually good enough for me. Then allow confirmation bias to take over. At least to the point that poor shots are a result of bad swings, not the shaft.

 

Getting to be a bit long winded. And haven't even begun discussing driver, fairway, hybrid and wedge shafts. Each have there own set of parameters to consider. Still, finding a suitable weight begins to pare down the field. Then the cheapskate in me takes over, and I look for ones suitable as inexpensive as possible. Which typically means several generations older. Just because they're older doesn't mean they have suddenly become crap shafts. I'm not good enough to spend lots of coin on expensive shafts. What if they don't work out as planned?

 

My .02.

[Conrad1953]

My G25 iron set that I bought from our pal PD has Ping TFC 189 graphite shafts in it. They

are 74 gram mid launch, mid kick shafts, R flex. Unlike the graphite shafts I had in a few

previous Cobra sets (low kick 55 gram shafts), these shafts are very strong. I like them a

lot. They can take any swing I can throw at them. I cannot make the ball "balloon" with them.

 

Just saying, and I may have said before, I think, that finding shaft pulls of these on eBay for

a low price is probably possible. I would imagine that shaft pulls of later Ping stock iron

graphite shafts are available on eBay as well....and likely would be similar to the TFC 189

in feel and performance.

 

Somehow I have this vague memory of this coming up before here in the Grille, lol.

[scomac2002]

I know very little about shafts. Based on my own limited experience one name has most consistently wrung true and that is Fujikura. I've played more woods successfully that came equipped with a Fujikura shaft than anything else, by a wide margin. Nothing fancy, just the made for shafts in R flex used by the likes of Taylormade, Callaway and Cobra. If I had consistency in struggles with wood shafts, then that dubious distinction belongs to Aldila. UST has been no bargain either.

 

Price is no yardstick of performance either. I bought a set of Nickent hybrids from Dallas Golf a number of years ago and those came with a cheap black Grafalloy shaft. I don't know if it was the Pro Custom or not, but those sure worked beautifully for me in that application. I would happily buy up any of those if I knew what they were for certain and use them in irons they worked so well!

 

For me, it's a case of weight and then a familiar feel which I suspect is the bend profile and the amount of work to load the shaft, but i can't be anymore specific than that.

 

I'm with fella on the shaft length question too. 36" is about the minimum for length in order to get a bearable posture in my new world. That will mean potentially graphite in wedges or at the very least moving down to something in the 100-120 gm range rather than std. TTDG S200.

[billh17]

Very nice looking hole indeed Fella. Hoping for spring to make its way here sooner than usual as far as warmth. -6 yesterday morning, now in the 30's today, and upper 40's tomorrow. That's the way the weather is here in ______________ (insert your state, province, territory, what have you) it changes every 5 minutes.

 

Lots of good club talk today. I'm thinking with looming retirement I'm going to be sticking with the clubs I've got for the next 40 years. um, the government doesn't give out Christmas bonuses, right? ha

 

RIGHT ! And i love that computer email once a month telling me the Eagle landed in my bank account !

[scotee]

It's not frosty, chilly, cold nor any other such adjectives. The only description that fits this a.m., it's arctic. Temp currently stands at -14* (-25.5* C). Don't recall it getting this low last year. Guess I'll have to break out the down jacket when I venture out later today. Would like to think that it's one more day crossed off in the progression towards spring. But at the moment, seems a long ways off.

 

Need to look at some warmth this morning.

 

 

 

Spectacular view Fella, where is That?

 

A-Ga-Ming Golf resort, Torch course in northern Michigan. Played it last August on a perfect (80*) summer day. That's Torch Lake in the background. Par 3, 7th hole has an elevated tee with that view. One of my favorite user friendly courses Up North.

 

https://www.a-ga-min...es/torch-course

 

Very nice! Northern Michigan has some gorgeous golf courses.

[scomac2002]

My G25 iron set that I bought from our pal PD has Ping TFC 189 graphite shafts in it. They

are 74 gram mid launch, mid kick shafts, R flex. Unlike the graphite shafts I had in a few

previous Cobra sets (low kick 55 gram shafts), these shafts are very strong. I like them a

lot. They can take any swing I can throw at them. I cannot make the ball "balloon" with them.

 

Just saying, and I may have said before, I think, that finding shaft pulls of these on eBay for

a low price is probably possible. I would imagine that shaft pulls of later Ping stock iron

graphite shafts are available on eBay as well....and likely would be similar to the TFC 189

in feel and performance.

 

Somehow I have this vague memory of this coming up before here in the Grille, lol.

 

I missed this post earlier. Agree with Rad that the TFC 189 is a stout R shaft. I lost probably a half an iron with these versus the S flex low kick steels that I was using before (Adams). Part of the reason I picked up those Burner Plus irons on the cheap as they launch a bit better even though steel. They are probably a reasonable compromise in the near term and would allow me to liquidate the Pings.

[Conrad1953]

I know very little about shafts. Based on my own limited experience one name has most consistently wrung true and that is Fujikura. I've played more woods successfully that came equipped with a Fujikura shaft than anything else, by a wide margin. Nothing fancy, just the made for shafts in R flex used by the likes of Taylormade, Callaway and Cobra. If I had consistency in struggles with wood shafts, then that dubious distinction belongs to Aldila. UST has been no bargain either.

 

Price is no yardstick of performance either. I bought a set of Nickent hybrids from Dallas Golf a number of years ago and those came with a cheap black Grafalloy shaft. I don't know if it was the Pro Custom or not, but those sure worked beautifully for me in that application. I would happily buy up any of those if I knew what they were for certain and use them in irons they worked so well!

 

For me, it's a case of weight and then a familiar feel which I suspect is the bend profile and the amount of work to load the shaft, but i can't be anymore specific than that.

 

I'm with fella on the shaft length question too. 36" is about the minimum for length in order to get a bearable posture in my new world. That will mean potentially graphite in wedges or at the very least moving down to something in the 100-120 gm range rather than std. TTDG S200.

 

I think for the reasons you have stated Sco, that is why many went to longer length putters...to

be able to stand more erect when putting. Putting, over the course of 18 holes, and possibly time

spent practicing, takes a toll on my back.......I think even moreso than executing a normal iron

swings.

 

My lower back is usually sore after a round and grows stiff on the drive home. This has gotten me

to thinking that maybe it's more the putting that's causing it. I have been blaming it on my full swing.

[scomac2002]

I agree Rad. That's why my most comfortable putter is an old upright Zing that plays to 36". It may not be the most forgiving, but I can play with it all day long and not end up with a knot in my low back. Second most comfortable putter is an upright RAM Zebra also at 36". I actually think that club designers have gone backwards when it comes to putter designs, most likely driven by Jack and others who putted hunchback with unnaturally short putters. Tough to argue with an 18 time major champion, but that maybe the one disservice he did to the game.

[SixtySomePing]

Shafts, I've got a weird combination. Seems I have to have stiff shaft in the driver. I just can't have it any other way, it helps with location, I keep the swing in tempo, and picture where I want it to go. I just tell myself the driver is the best part of my game, and so far I've convinced myself. Ping G SF Tec 65 Tour Shaft and G30 SF Tec 12* Alta 55 Stiff

Then the fairway woods, old Ping TiSi Tec 3 and 5 R flex.

Irons Ping G15 R flex, wedges Titleist Vokey (2002) all stiff flex

[Wriggles]

I know very little about shafts. Based on my own limited experience one name has most consistently wrung true and that is Fujikura. I've played more woods successfully that came equipped with a Fujikura shaft than anything else, by a wide margin. Nothing fancy, just the made for shafts in R flex used by the likes of Taylormade, Callaway and Cobra. If I had consistency in struggles with wood shafts, then that dubious distinction belongs to Aldila. UST has been no bargain either.

 

Price is no yardstick of performance either. I bought a set of Nickent hybrids from Dallas Golf a number of years ago and those came with a cheap black Grafalloy shaft. I don't know if it was the Pro Custom or not, but those sure worked beautifully for me in that application. I would happily buy up any of those if I knew what they were for certain and use them in irons they worked so well!

 

For me, it's a case of weight and then a familiar feel which I suspect is the bend profile and the amount of work to load the shaft, but i can't be anymore specific than that.

 

I'm with fella on the shaft length question too. 36" is about the minimum for length in order to get a bearable posture in my new world. That will mean potentially graphite in wedges or at the very least moving down to something in the 100-120 gm range rather than std. TTDG S200.

 

I think for the reasons you have stated Sco, that is why many went to longer length putters...to

be able to stand more erect when putting. Putting, over the course of 18 holes, and possibly time

spent practicing, takes a toll on my back.......I think even moreso than executing a normal iron

swings.

 

My lower back is usually sore after a round and grows stiff on the drive home. This has gotten me

to thinking that maybe it's more the putting that's causing it. I have been blaming it on my full swing.

 

I've had twinges in my lower back while putting or in the putting stance. Possibly, putting can be causing more problems than full swings. Never thought of it before.

 

Food for thought.

[scomac2002]

I definitely think that putters are too short by and large. 20 or 30 years ago you could get a 36" putter OTR from any green grass pro shop. Today, the big box stores carry 33", 34", 35" that's it unless you go to an oversized mallet that's counterbalanced. I've always likened putting with one of those heavy counterbalanced putters to driving in finishing nails with a sledgehammer!

 

It's interesting that when I played putt putt a couple of times last summer I was using a bullseye style blade that was extra long -- 36", perhaps even 37" -- and never had a moments discomfort taking the 40 odd putts that were required to finish the game.

 

What I should be looking for is an extra long SeeMore FGP brass blade on eBay; that would be the ticket! (cool)

[scomac2002]

This morning we're getting a mixture of precipitation; rain and freezing rain mostly, although DW said it was slushy when she went out to the car. Big change from yesterday when she said the temperature on her car thermometer read -27°C when she was driving to work!

 

Over on the Weather network there was an article talking about some of the weather phenomenon that we have been seeing in the past few days that are usually reserved for Arctic areas such as Sastrugi (snow waves), Sea Smoke, Steam Devils, Slush Balls and Snow-nados, all of which have been making appearances in the land around the Great Lakes. I've seen several examples of each over the years and never gave it much of a thought.

[Fellaheen51]

One of the golfing buds has had a number of operations on his hips and knees, affecting his ability to bend over to any extent. Especially while putting. He uses a 43" long putter. But it's old, has a generic head, rusting shaft, a long grip that's badly deteriorated. He'd like to move to a #7 style putter. A "fanged" mallet like several of us are using. He asked me to search out options for him (he's not a club ho by any measure). He'd just like something new and different for the upcoming season. Told him I'd help him out.

 

Only to discover that long putters have become non-existent. Saw one of the long SeeMore's at the LGS, but they were asking upwards of $400 for it. A non-starter for him. The longest I was observing were 38", but of the counter-balanced variety. Not really a long putter as it's meant to be gripped down, not at the full length. Investigating taking a standard length putter (even a 38") and extending apparently is a problematic option. Lies angles would be drastically off by so doing. And issues with trying to bend a hosel and/or double bend shaft upright. A "long" putter should have lies at ~ 79* (+/- a degree) to maintain position over the ball. Plus having head weights of 400 grams or so to maintain feel in the club head while stroking. Part of his problem currently is the head weight is way light and he has a problem waving it around during the stroke. So I'm flummoxed at the moment.

 

Investigating options, see only one putter that sorta meets the criteria. A Cleveland with a heavier head, single bend shaft (these have become a rarity), 38" max length. Inquiring about it at the LGS, was told that it's SO only. He would like to try one first, not one to drop a couple hun on a putter sight unseen. And if were to extend it, they would not, could not bend it upright by 8*. I've yet to talk to my independent bender to see what he can do. Just trying to help a brother out updating his putter. Trying to figure out a solution for him.

 

One of the big disservices to the recreational golfer was the implementation of the dumbass anchoring ban. Effectively taking all the long putters off the market. And this point has really hit home. For golfers of age and/or with afflictions, utilizing a long putter is the only means for them to putt without discomfort.

___________________

 

Switched to a heavier head (370 g) putter mid-season. Perhaps to heavy for many, all depends. Helped with smoothing out my putting stroke. Gave me some measure of increased confidence that I could improve upon my short range putting. By not waving the head around when faced with a 4 footer. Without keeping track specifically, seems like I improved in that area. I'm going to do a grip change before next season. Taking off the crappy OEM Winn grip now installed. Thinking about trying some DIY back weighting via carriage bolts in the butt end to lighten up the head. Not a lot, 20 grams or so, just to reduce the sensation of heaviness in the head. Minimal investment and easy to pull out if I don't like the results.

[scomac2002]

You can still build your own long putter. I was on Golfworks and they have a mallet head that weighs 395 out of the box and they still sell the ski pole shafts with either a single or double bend. The split grips are a bit harder to find, but they are on eBay at a reasonable price.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/accusite-as-pro-putters/p/as1002/

https://www.golfworks.com/true-temper-single-bend-ski-pole-putter-shaft/p/tt0048v/

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bran-New-Winn-Excel-2-Piece-Long-Split-Putter-Grip-/283331001585

 

I know that it's the dreaded Winn grip, but you can still get one. All in it looks like you're about $100 for parts with labour and shop materials on top. He won't get to try it first, but he'd get a new putter.

[scomac2002]

I've been thinking about Reasy's oily wrists or maybe it was Fella not that it really matters. At any rate, I have always admired Steve Stricker's swing and tried to pattern my own attempts after his model. Essentially it's a no wrist swing. A similar swing to what K J Choi used to use (or still does for all I know...).

 

I've never been one to set my wrists much at all, instead preferring to roll my forearms ~90° on the takeaway and then back to square at impact and following through for a total of ~180° of rotation. Essentially I use no wrist action whatsoever. This tends to result in a fairly flat swing plane at the top of the backswing (wherever that may occur) requiring me to drop the club down into the slot as I initiate the downswing. It works better with less backswing because there's less correction that has to be made. From that point-of-view there's a bit of Jim Furyk in it too I suppose by necessity. Hope this description makes some sense.

 

That's the base from which I have to work and I don't see any need to reinvent the wheel, just make some adjustments to take torque off of the back. I'm thinking an open stance is preferrable in terms of the follow through, however the upright lie of the clubs could prove to be a bit of an issue. A little flatter and a little longer might work better to keep from overcooking a hook while still providing for a more comfortable address position. I'm tall, but blessed with long arms so I don't absolutely have to have upright clubs. I had no trouble adapting to my Hogans which are probably 2°-2.5° flatter than the Pings. No wonder adjusting between sets was so difficult!

 

A few random thoughts on a rainy January morning as visions of fairways dance in our heads.

[SixtySomePing]

You can still build your own long putter. I was on Golfworks and they have a mallet head that weighs 395 out of the box and they still sell the ski pole shafts with either a single or double bend. The split grips are a bit harder to find, but they are on eBay at a reasonable price.

 

https://www.golfwork...tters/p/as1002/

https://www.golfwork...haft/p/tt0048v/

https://www.ebay.ca/...p-/283331001585

 

I know that it's the dreaded Winn grip, but you can still get one. All in it looks like you're about $100 for parts with labour and shop materials on top. He won't get to try it first, but he'd get a new putter.

Ah, GolfWorks, It's so nice to live 10 minutes away from there. I say driving is the best part of my game, but it's really putting. That's where I picked out my last putter. Nice practice area there, and I've learned a lot over the years just by hanging out there.

http://ralphmaltby.c...-ball-properly/

[Reasonability]

Can't resist a partisan moment from the peanut gallery.

 

Sharing my worthless 2 pennies worth on "how" to break through the fog of conceptual jargon on the road to a little better putting. More importantly, how to do so with less strain and pain in the lower back. Ergo a win/win of sorts

 

The human head is whatever percentage of total body weight. I dunno what percentage but let's just say it's kinda heavy. Some defined group of muscles (whatever the heck they're called and wherever the they are) supports that heavy noggin. So in short, it weighs enough to literally tire us out - just holding it in place during practice and play.

 

Here's the crux of my lower back preserving tip when it comes to putting...

 

Rather than fight city hall by standing taller, with the chin up, go ahead a look face-down to the ball. Crouch down, drop your chin closer to your chest andand get the feet close eonough so that your entire face is looking straight down at the ball. Your eyes will be dead parallel to the intended line of the putt. Now suddenly the top of you're glasses or sunglasses frame is appearing just outside and beyond the line of the putt. You're NOT looking down your nose at the putt - not even slightly.

 

Stress and strain on the neck and back will plummet!

 

THIS DOES NOT IMPLY USE OF A SHORTER PUTTER SHAFT! To the contrary, the length of the putter should allow you to put the handle thru the palms of both hands with the elbows relaxed and bent - closer to your belly and hips, rather than long/extended/stiff-armed. It's going to take a long enough putter to allow bent/relaxed arms.

 

The instant of "hanging" your head comfortably with your face truly facing the ground, and crouch a little more, you'll stop working against gravity to hang that noggin. Can't do this if you lift the chin at all, or stand taller. Back pain and fatigue will race right back into the picture.

 

Where you'll likely first notice fatigue now is from the waist-down. The front of the legs from the knees up (quads), the back of the legs (Hamstrings and calves) have become the new home of "support". They"ll prolly be begging for a little more light stretching and simple little exercises but that's pretty fixable without becoming a total gym rat.

 

Less back pain - Able to practice/play longer without sapping energy - Eye-line properly over the putting line - No need to shorten the putter since the arms aren't "reaching". The legs will ask for a slight boost in stretching and simple at-home work for a few minutes every other day whilst watching TV.

 

Rant over.

 

LOVED reading you guy's posts on this stuff. Way to go gents!

[SixtySomePing]

Can't resist a partisan moment from the peanut gallery.

 

Sharing my worthless 2 pennies worth on "how" to break through the fog of conceptual jargon on the road to a little better putting. More importantly, how to do so with less strain and pain in the lower back. Ergo a win/win of sorts

 

The human head is whatever percentage of total body weight. I dunno what percentage but let's just say it's kinda heavy. Some defined group of muscles (whatever the heck they're called and wherever the they are) supports that heavy noggin. So in short, it weighs enough to literally tire us out - just holding it in place during practice and play.

 

Here's the crux of my lower back preserving tip when it comes to putting...

 

Rather than fight city hall by standing taller, with the chin up, go ahead a look face-down to the ball. Crouch down, drop your chin closer to your chest andand get the feet close eonough so that your entire face is looking straight down at the ball. Your eyes will be dead parallel to the intended line of the putt. Now suddenly the top of you're glasses or sunglasses frame is appearing just outside and beyond the line of the putt. You're NOT looking down your nose at the putt - not even slightly.

 

Stress and strain on the neck and back will plummet!

 

THIS DOES NOT IMPLY USE OF A SHORTER PUTTER SHAFT! To the contrary, the length of the putter should allow you to put the handle thru the palms of both hands with the elbows relaxed and bent - closer to your belly and hips, rather than long/extended/stiff-armed. It's going to take a long enough putter to allow bent/relaxed arms.

 

The instant of "hanging" your head comfortably with your face truly facing the ground, and crouch a little more, you'll stop working against gravity to hang that noggin. Can't do this if you lift the chin at all, or stand taller. Back pain and fatigue will race right back into the picture.

 

Where you'll likely first notice fatigue now is from the waist-down. The front of the legs from the knees up (quads), the back of the legs (Hamstrings and calves) have become the new home of "support". They"ll prolly be begging for a little more light stretching and simple little exercises but that's pretty fixable without becoming a total gym rat.

 

Less back pain - Able to practice/play longer without sapping energy - Eye-line properly over the putting line - No need to shorten the putter since the arms aren't "reaching". The legs will ask for a slight boost in stretching and simple at-home work for a few minutes every other day whilst watching TV.

 

Rant over.

 

LOVED reading you guy's posts on this stuff. Way to go gents!

And for me, one of my many real keys (one of) is a very light grip on the putter grip. I usually let go and regrip a couple of times before i putt just to remind myself to hold it ever so lightly, as if I were almost holding an empty eggshell in each hand. Lots of muscles interacting in there, and a tense one or two can eventually skew the putter face a tad, at least for me. Practice some putts with different tensions going on, especially at impact, it's surprising.

[scotee]

Strange weather! 38 this morning in the valley when I left for work. On top of the grade it had snowed overnight but was almost 50 deg with a Chinook wind. Played yesterday with mixed sun and clouds and a cold breeze and had my best round in a long time! Two birds, no doubles, one three putt. If I can shoot that score in ten years I can shoot my age. :) Prolly less chance than Reasey's pending HIO but we can dream.

[Reasonability]

Can't resist a partisan moment from the peanut gallery.

 

Sharing my worthless 2 pennies worth on "how" to break through the fog of conceptual jargon on the road to a little better putting. More importantly, how to do so with less strain and pain in the lower back. Ergo a win/win of sorts

 

The human head is whatever percentage of total body weight. I dunno what percentage but let's just say it's kinda heavy. Some defined group of muscles (whatever the heck they're called and wherever the they are) supports that heavy noggin. So in short, it weighs enough to literally tire us out - just holding it in place during practice and play.

 

Here's the crux of my lower back preserving tip when it comes to putting...

 

Rather than fight city hall by standing taller, with the chin up, go ahead a look face-down to the ball. Crouch down, drop your chin closer to your chest andand get the feet close eonough so that your entire face is looking straight down at the ball. Your eyes will be dead parallel to the intended line of the putt. Now suddenly the top of you're glasses or sunglasses frame is appearing just outside and beyond the line of the putt. You're NOT looking down your nose at the putt - not even slightly.

 

Stress and strain on the neck and back will plummet!

 

THIS DOES NOT IMPLY USE OF A SHORTER PUTTER SHAFT! To the contrary, the length of the putter should allow you to put the handle thru the palms of both hands with the elbows relaxed and bent - closer to your belly and hips, rather than long/extended/stiff-armed. It's going to take a long enough putter to allow bent/relaxed arms.

 

The instant of "hanging" your head comfortably with your face truly facing the ground, and crouch a little more, you'll stop working against gravity to hang that noggin. Can't do this if you lift the chin at all, or stand taller. Back pain and fatigue will race right back into the picture.

 

Where you'll likely first notice fatigue now is from the waist-down. The front of the legs from the knees up (quads), the back of the legs (Hamstrings and calves) have become the new home of "support". They"ll prolly be begging for a little more light stretching and simple little exercises but that's pretty fixable without becoming a total gym rat.

 

Less back pain - Able to practice/play longer without sapping energy - Eye-line properly over the putting line - No need to shorten the putter since the arms aren't "reaching". The legs will ask for a slight boost in stretching and simple at-home work for a few minutes every other day whilst watching TV.

 

Rant over.

 

LOVED reading you guy's posts on this stuff. Way to go gents!

And for me, one of my many real keys (one of) is a very light grip on the putter grip. I usually let go and regrip a couple of times before i putt just to remind myself to hold it ever so lightly, as if I were almost holding an empty eggshell in each hand. Lots of muscles interacting in there, and a tense one or two can eventually skew the putter face a tad, at least for me. Practice some putts with different tensions going on, especially at impact, it's surprising.

 

Couldn't agree more if my life depended on it. For me (and this takes a conscious effort until it's just plain habit) I crave that light feel of the hands on the handle at the the start, once in motion, when changing directions from back to through, and even while holding the finish. Without realizing it, I tend to wander off the reservation on this front at times. I know better but that doesn't stop me from lapsing into not-so-good habits. So in order to avoid a billion mechanical thoughts, it's more about set-up and grip. Much easier to turn THAT into action and results than analyzing it to death. Lol - just like the swing of any stick in the bag. :)

 

GREAT addition my friend.

[Reasonability]

Strange weather! 38 this morning in the valley when I left for work. On top of the grade it had snowed overnight but was almost 50 deg with a Chinook wind. Played yesterday with mixed sun and clouds and a cold breeze and had my best round in a long time! Two birds, no doubles, one three putt. If I can shoot that score in ten years I can shoot my age. :) Prolly less chance than Reasey's pending HIO but we can dream.

 

Nice outing! Well played. Something in the crystal ball tells me we'll each conquer both our goals.

 

Ah - the oliiness of it all! :)

 

 

[Conrad1953]

Strange weather! 38 this morning in the valley when I left for work. On top of the grade it had snowed overnight but was almost 50 deg with a Chinook wind. Played yesterday with mixed sun and clouds and a cold breeze and had my best round in a long time! Two birds, no doubles, one three putt. If I can shoot that score in ten years I can shoot my age. :) Prolly less chance than Reasey's pending HIO but we can dream.

 

Nice round! Glad to hear it. And great to hear the optimism on Pending HIOs and SMAs...for ALL.

 

The 1st Grillster that has an SMA round will be world famous locally..........here in the Grille...and beyond.

 

Has anyone come close? I surely haven't. I'm far too young.....or far too bad....lol.

[billh17]

I mentioned earlier that I have been using a longer putter,for several years now.

I just found it eased the lower back pain,and stress in that area. Like others, not nearly the stiffness or soreness after playing.

Have the YES putter, the Tracy 12,with a 37 1/2 inch length,and i am standing almost upright,with the only bend being in the

shoulder area,very little hip/lower back bend at all.

all i an say is it has helped me a lot as i get older !

 

Rad,I hope to get very close this year....as we all know, hitting a 73 is a lot easier than a 65 or so for you youngsters !

one of the few advantages of getting ancient !

[scomac2002]

73, 65, it's all a bridge too far even on an executive course. I've managed +3 a side a couple of times, but that's about it. When I first started out I remember it being a big deal to SMA for nine! :lol:

[scotee]

Strange weather! 38 this morning in the valley when I left for work. On top of the grade it had snowed overnight but was almost 50 deg with a Chinook wind. Played yesterday with mixed sun and clouds and a cold breeze and had my best round in a long time! Two birds, no doubles, one three putt. If I can shoot that score in ten years I can shoot my age. :) Prolly less chance than Reasey's pending HIO but we can dream.

 

Nice round! Glad to hear it. And great to hear the optimism on Pending HIOs and SMAs...for ALL.

 

The 1st Grillster that has an SMA round will be world famous locally..........here in the Grille...and beyond.

 

Has anyone come close? I surely haven't. I'm far too young.....or far too bad....lol.

 

It is a paradox. Getting older generally reduces your skills and makes scoring harder. Like you say if you are younger it requires a better score. The planets have to align just right. Interesting that I saw Tom Watson interviewed last week about shooting his age. He said something to Hale Erwin who said: "BIG DEAL" in a very sarcastic way. He had done it so many times it truly was no big deal. It will be a big deal if I pull it off and I will brag :) I expect the honorable and humble Judge Reasey to boast of his HIO as well.

[Fellaheen51]

You can still build your own long putter. I was on Golfworks and they have a mallet head that weighs 395 out of the box and they still sell the ski pole shafts with either a single or double bend. The split grips are a bit harder to find, but they are on eBay at a reasonable price.

 

https://www.golfwork...tters/p/as1002/

https://www.golfwork...haft/p/tt0048v/

https://www.ebay.ca/...p-/283331001585

 

I know that it's the dreaded Winn grip, but you can still get one. All in it looks like you're about $100 for parts with labour and shop materials on top. He won't get to try it first, but he'd get a new putter.

 

Thanks for the research buddy!! Don't know how I missed that mallet putter head, with my regular perusing of GW. The ski pole single bend shaft has a lie angle of 79*, so right where it should be. And could weight up the head additionally if need be. Would come in at ~ $75.00 as I would be doing the assembly for him. Sent the link to the bud inquiring about his opinion. Mentioning that sometimes one simply must have a "leaf of faith" about such things.

[SixtySomePing]

Can't resist a partisan moment from the peanut gallery.

 

Sharing my worthless 2 pennies worth on "how" to break through the fog of conceptual jargon on the road to a little better putting. More importantly, how to do so with less strain and pain in the lower back. Ergo a win/win of sorts

 

The human head is whatever percentage of total body weight. I dunno what percentage but let's just say it's kinda heavy. Some defined group of muscles (whatever the heck they're called and wherever the they are) supports that heavy noggin. So in short, it weighs enough to literally tire us out - just holding it in place during practice and play.

 

Here's the crux of my lower back preserving tip when it comes to putting...

 

Rather than fight city hall by standing taller, with the chin up, go ahead a look face-down to the ball. Crouch down, drop your chin closer to your chest andand get the feet close eonough so that your entire face is looking straight down at the ball. Your eyes will be dead parallel to the intended line of the putt. Now suddenly the top of you're glasses or sunglasses frame is appearing just outside and beyond the line of the putt. You're NOT looking down your nose at the putt - not even slightly.

 

Stress and strain on the neck and back will plummet!

 

THIS DOES NOT IMPLY USE OF A SHORTER PUTTER SHAFT! To the contrary, the length of the putter should allow you to put the handle thru the palms of both hands with the elbows relaxed and bent - closer to your belly and hips, rather than long/extended/stiff-armed. It's going to take a long enough putter to allow bent/relaxed arms.

 

The instant of "hanging" your head comfortably with your face truly facing the ground, and crouch a little more, you'll stop working against gravity to hang that noggin. Can't do this if you lift the chin at all, or stand taller. Back pain and fatigue will race right back into the picture.

 

Where you'll likely first notice fatigue now is from the waist-down. The front of the legs from the knees up (quads), the back of the legs (Hamstrings and calves) have become the new home of "support". They"ll prolly be begging for a little more light stretching and simple little exercises but that's pretty fixable without becoming a total gym rat.

 

Less back pain - Able to practice/play longer without sapping energy - Eye-line properly over the putting line - No need to shorten the putter since the arms aren't "reaching". The legs will ask for a slight boost in stretching and simple at-home work for a few minutes every other day whilst watching TV.

 

Rant over.

 

LOVED reading you guy's posts on this stuff. Way to go gents!

And for me, one of my many real keys (one of) is a very light grip on the putter grip. I usually let go and regrip a couple of times before i putt just to remind myself to hold it ever so lightly, as if I were almost holding an empty eggshell in each hand. Lots of muscles interacting in there, and a tense one or two can eventually skew the putter face a tad, at least for me. Practice some putts with different tensions going on, especially at impact, it's surprising.

 

Couldn't agree more if my life depended on it. For me (and this takes a conscious effort until it's just plain habit) I crave that light feel of the hands on the handle at the the start, once in motion, when changing directions from back to through y and even while holding the finish. Without realizing it, I tend to wander off the reservation on this front at times. I know better but that doesn't stop me from lapsing into not-so-good habits. So in order to avoid a billion mechanical thoughts, it's more about set-up and grip. Much easier to turn THAT into action and results than analyzing it to death. Lol - just like the swing of any stick in the bag. :)

 

GREAT addition my friend.

So check these out, they work together just fine if you let them. Same nerves and muscles you use to pick your nose and swat a mosquito, only you don't have to line yourself all up and get all tense and stuff, you just do what comes naturally. So is the golf swing. These things will naturally do the same stuff in the golf swing if we will but trust them....

[BIG STU]

Will toss one more broad generalization out there for convo purposes.

 

This too may well be far more personal perception than fact, but I've come to honestly believe it, FBOW.

 

No golfer is a purely mechanical while likewise the purely "feel" golfer likewise does not exist, either.

 

My conivtion about this is born of what I see over and over again in the world around me as well as myself. The feel golfer eventually (sooner or later) does at least something with his club specs, his grip, his swing.... in search of even better "feel".

 

The analytical/mechanical golfer sooner or later seeks to convert his analysis into a relaxed, calm, flowing, FEEL during execution. The feel golfer simply arrives at the same forks in the road but CHOOSES to favor mechanical fixes under the flag of "feel".

 

By labeling ourselves, we simply become more comfortable with facing the same forks in the road on the journey everyone faces. It's easier that way. And that's perfectly understandable. Just pointing out that IMO, the polar opposite golfers we sometimes "think" are out there - actually don't exist.

You are absolutely correct on the feel golfer about basically 'tuning" a club. I do it all the time. I had another member ask me one night what SW I had on my personal clubs. I told him I had no idea. I weigh them strictly by feel. I also set my lies by checking on my lie board and do not go by published spec numbers I bend it up to where I need it. Shafts for me are not consistent for me throughout a set. Grips are not either. No joke I have been blessed or cursed however I may look at it with uncanny feel. Sometimes on a particular club a Tour Velvet may feel better than a Tour Wrap. If some of these OCD people would go through my bag checking SW Shaft flex and grips they would have a coronary. I have been known on the range when dialing in a club to go to my truck where I have a small c clamp mounted vise and portable air tank and change a grip in a flash. I would not expect anyone to be able to play with the stuff I play with