Clubhouse Grille (* NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ) ( NO POLITICS/RELIGION *)

tolmij · January 25, 2019

Yes remember that song somewhere back in the dark recesses of my mind.

billh17 · January 25, 2019

I also remember that one...even tho most times i heard it was usually at a party,and may well have been a little less than

alert and aware....had to check back to see that it was released in 1969,and was popular . That timeline fits in with my

relaxation time before i became a law abiding citizen.. I am almost a nerd guys.. I was a 3 sports player, but i never drank...

never smoked...have never attended a Nascar event.. but I have been to three State Fairs,so there is that.

Fellaheen51 · January 25, 2019

That's three of us that remember that song. I think that fella tagged it correctly with apocalyptic protest song; either that or an acid trip...

Blowing snow here. More cold and blustery as Wriggs calls it than anything. It would appear that Mother Nature is manic depressive. Supposed to be a nasty week upcoming, but beyond that it will moderate. We always seem to get a couple of weeks worth of really nasty weather every winter and then more manageable conditions beyond that. Here's hoping...

What is it about this time of year? Cabin fever I guess as I always seem to buy something golf related. Last year it was the Vokey wedges and a new three wheeled cart. The wedges saw two nine hole rounds. In fact, I don't think that the 58° has even hit a ball! The push cart is still in the basement wrapped in plastic where I left it after putting it together. Presently I'm taken with the idea of getting some woods in A flex as there is a fair selection available at good prices for lightly used models -- yes we've had this discussion before. It's like a disease or at least that's what DW calls it! :blush:

Yeah, every winter has that 10 day period when it's cold and snowy. Believe we are entering that phase. Hopefully, it will just be a one time occurrence this year. Remembering a winter a few years back. All it did was snow, never warming enough to have any melt down. The piles became so high, the snowblower was having difficulty throwing fresh accumulation up and over. Then again, I have a wimpy single stage snowblower. Only effective up to about a 8" accumulation without having to reduce the swath that is taken. If I had it to do over (or when this one stops working), will invest in a power driven, augured two stage. I've read that some of them even have power steering, hand warmers and cabanas. Sweet. I'm getting to old to muscle the current one around while clearing out the drive. Especially if it's a wet snow.

__________________

Think that the bag is pretty well set heading into next season. What with the Maltby's in and the Pings gone. For what amounted to an even exchange, not requiring a significant investment on the core (heads, shafts) on the switch. Not counting grips as I was due for regrip on the i20's anyhow. Everything else I'm content with. A different driver would be interesting. But very reluctant to make the switch after years of trying to straighten out my drives. Pretty confident these days with driver in hand, to get off the tee and find the ball thereafter. It's become a known quantity. Demoing several "new" drivers didn't realize any meaningful addition to distance. Too me, 10 yards isn't especially meaningful. Plus the unknown of how straight I would be be able to hit the ball. Throw in the costs that are up in the $500 per area, becomes a non-starter. And if I was to back up a generation or three, what's the point. Kinda where I'm at now. Doesn't stop me from browsing around periodically, as that's what we do. But looking is a long ways from buying.

billh17 · January 25, 2019

Gonna stay with the current driver...changing isn't going to help me any either. Reality tells me that at my age my big concern needs

to be where,not how far. I am going to play one more season with the F7 One Lengths. If I see a good buy on a set of F8's.i may jump

on them,but either way,I am going to stay with the One Length clubs. Cant change putters..the feel on mine is what i am used to and I

simply dont want to mess with it ! I am seriously thinking it may be time for me to go the Senior shaft in the irons. That might be the only

change i make for sure,even if i keep these.

plus

Fellaheen51 · January 25, 2019

Think there's some physics involved with how far we can hit a golf ball. Given our SS, so say'th the charts. Kinda where I should be given my SS (that will not be revealed in a public forum). A new driver isn't going to significantly change the laws of nature. Have high hopes that Reason's oily wrists swing thing will restore some measure of lost distance. He kinda implied that it might. Think the term used was "effortless distance". IIRC.

Reasonability · January 25, 2019

First things first by way of fellow golf buds here.

Hoping Wriggs continues to fully mend. No one likes having that "mung" that denies a man a full pipe. Get fully well soon.

Bill, I'm not driver shopping these days either. The closet is full of predecessors. Got past my bias for what color and brand a driver must be long enough to find my gamer. Prolly 7 years ago and it's here to stay a good while. Like you, iron re-shafting will happen. Maybe this year. I dunno when as much as knowing it's day is most definitely coming. Rifle 6.0 is a bit much for me but they do respond beautifully to a decent swing so they keep living to fight another day thus far.

Tol - saw your mention of the wife's continued progress post-abilation. All good thoughts regarding her follow up exam. And thank you for tolerating our cabin fever amid your blazingly hot summer. As you've read, the real crux of bitterly cold and brutal weather is on our minds and doorsteps of late.

Fella, will post-up a little (as in quite brief) chapter 2 regarding oily wrists. LOL. It's actually a fun little swing topic at the end of the day.

SixtySomePing · January 25, 2019

Interesting thing about Zager if you play guitar, is that he's still alive (got that goin' for him) and he owns his own guitar company and designs his own guitars, so there's a videos where his son and him explain what's different about his guitar on it...

https://zagerguitar.com/

SixtySomePing · January 25, 2019

First things first by way of fellow golf buds here.

Hoping Wriggs continues to fully mend. No one likes having that "mung" that denies a man a full pipe. Get fully well soon.

Bill, I'm not driver shopping these days either. The closet is full of predecessors. Got past my bias for what color and brand a driver must be long enough to find my gamer. Prolly 7 years ago and it's here to stay a good while. Like you, iron re-shafting will happen. Maybe this year. I dunno when as much as knowing it's day is most definitely coming. Rifle 6.0 is a bit much for me but they do respond beautifully to a decent swing so they keep living to fight another day thus far.

Tol - saw your mention of the wife's continued progress post-abilation. All good thoughts regarding her follow up exam. And thank you for tolerating our cabin fever amid your blazingly hot summer. As you've read, the real crux of bitterly cold and brutal weather is on our minds and doorsteps of late.

Fella, will post-up a little (as in quite brief) chapter 2 regarding oily wrists. LOL. It's actually a fun little swing topic at the end of the day.

Not sure I understand the oily wrist concept yet, but as I used to say in one of the news intros I used to do "When you need to know"

So

Do oily wrists catch bugs like flypaper would?

Can you use any oily substance- Crisco, olive oil (regular or extra virgin?)

Forget oily wrists for a second, what the heck is an extra virgin? Is that like buying a new dozen golf balls that's never been hit, then beside them on the shelf is another dozen that says "Extra never hit' or 'ENH' golf balls. Yep, ready to tee it up, got me some 'ENH' balls

So, can you get a filter for oily wrists so the oil lasts longer. Is there any special soap so when you shower the oil comes off easier?

Dial, Irish Spring, Olay, Ivory? Lyme... Extra Olay?

Do you need a dipstick for oily wrists so you know if you have too much or not enough? Inquisitive minds want to know...

scomac2002 · January 25, 2019

Cool video, Sixty! Thanks for posting. :good:

Reasonability · January 25, 2019

Think there's some physics involved with how far we can hit a golf ball. Given our SS, so say'th the charts. Kinda where I should be given my SS (that will not be revealed in a public forum). A new driver isn't going to significantly change the laws of nature. Have high hopes that Reason's oily wrists swing thing will restore some measure of lost distance. He kinda implied that it might. Think the term used was "effortless distance". IIRC.

Beyond the 1/10 chance my rants are deemed in any way truly informational/useful -AND - given my annoying use of punctuation... :)

Can't resist the chum. My inner swing rant-o-meter is red lining. May not have been the intent whatsoever, but the heart strings have been plucked one way or the other.

If I haven't by now earned a rep for trying to unwind the knot of confusing and nebulous swing jargon, then at least I've fought the good fight. That very jargon paralyzes golfers. They're (not you personally) afraid to give the conceptual "thing" any form of reasonable action. They withdraw from even speaking of it. As a result, the more said, the more so many golfers eventually shut down. The cycle spirals. IMHO this is more than a little tragic since the journey becomes just that much dimmed. Just like denying one's self the opportunity to try different sticks, shafts, lead tape, yadda.

This swing minutiae stuff clearly doesn't have to be part of the journey, and it clearly isn't part of it for a vast population of those playing it. What I personally see at the end of the day is, it all morphs into a tangled up mess of jargon unworthy of the energy/effort to waste the time even touching. And even if we did, (to Scotee's point), we can find posts and vids that proclaim "x" while another claims "y" leaving us all chasing our tails.

So "oily wrists". Why would this one be any different? Just one more in the ocean of roads to nowhere? Just another confusing, conceptual, and nebulous doo-dad better left unexplored? Why bother? Who cares? BFD!!!! :).

Once again, it's all nested in yet another misleading bit of everyday swing jargon. Namely, "swing speed". That term is here to stay and no one is hereby encouraged to abandon it. BUT FOR SURE - it's misleading and confusing. It implies the 20 year old gym rat who power lifts 4 times his body can have it while le we can't. Not true!

So now I will single-out Fella. He tried it and on day one he experienced what it is and what it isn't. We know this from his follow up to giving it a go. He shared that he FELT attempts to send it farther with faster via. His ARMS yielded nothing much in terms of result. (Other than tiring him out). But he also verbalized how a softer / smoother transition followed by a lot of wrist oiliness through the strike delivered immediate changes to ball flights. He immediately discovered the difference. That's THE first big step! THAT is all it takes is THAT simple awareness. THAT is the hitching post from which whatever else in terms of little nuances in feel or mechanics is born. And most of all, THAT is precisely how we all can get more from a shot with half the effort.

In effect, he discovered the difference in "swing speed" and the one that truly matters.... CLUBHEAD SPEED.

IMHO, swing "stuff" tends to travel in little groups. One single swing flaw may not by itself be a deal maker/breaker. In my book multiples are in play. And this is where the rants loose people - big time. But I'll also go out on a limb and say there are some good things, which when done well, pull other good things into the picture automatically.

Grip, setup posture, reduced tension, a nice rhythm, balance, all fly to mind. But I don't care who the golfer is, he DOES NOT have the ability to manage a one-thousand point checklist at setup and he absolutely CAN'T manage a head full of thoughts mid-swing.

But what does happen with oily wrists is that other good things get pulled along with it - consciously or subconsciously it just simply happens. Quick examples.... if you swing up the follow through with your trail sign palm facing to to ground, you "flipped" it. There's your lower flights duck hook. If you passed through that same post-impact with the the tail hand palm facing skyward, the club face would be open at impact. Hello pushes and weak fades. If you transition too abruptly and hard with the arms, your wrists will never have time to be oily. You'll fight all manner of sway, your upper body won't stay behind the ball until she's long gone, so you'll end up fighting versus using your own posture.

It drags with it, a better smoother takeaway. It invites us to not crown (edit: "crowd") the ball at address. This list just goes on and on.

So all by itself - this stupid wrist versus arms thing drags good things into good habit. We don't have to work so hard at it. We don't have to be a gym rat, or own a 19-year-old spine. We don't need to know or understand anyone's swing theory, learn "p" this or "p" that positions. No need to unpack jargon. It minimizes what to think about thus freeing up the mind. It can be experienced inside one small bucket of balls. Anyone can FEEL if they're releasing it too late or too early. The amount of arm involvement versus oiliness in the wrists is quite "feel-able". As is the general way the trail hand feels after the strike.

Wheels down and locked. Coming in for a landing amid the rant of all rants. Please fasten statelets. Make sure your seat back and tray table are in the full upright and locked position.

I do not know everything for sure. No man has all the answers for all golfers all the time. There is precious little these days I would project onto others just because I personally have experienced it. This one is an exception simply because it drags so many other little good things with it and it's so easy to go try for yourself.

Thank you for flying Reason Airlines.

Reasonability · January 25, 2019

First things first by way of fellow golf buds here.

Hoping Wriggs continues to fully mend. No one likes having that "mung" that denies a man a full pipe. Get fully well soon.

Bill, I'm not driver shopping these days either. The closet is full of predecessors. Got past my bias for what color and brand a driver must be long enough to find my gamer. Prolly 7 years ago and it's here to stay a good while. Like you, iron re-shafting will happen. Maybe this year. I dunno when as much as knowing it's day is most definitely coming. Rifle 6.0 is a bit much for me but they do respond beautifully to a decent swing so they keep living to fight another day thus far.

Tol - saw your mention of the wife's continued progress post-abilation. All good thoughts regarding her follow up exam. And thank you for tolerating our cabin fever amid your blazingly hot summer. As you've read, the real crux of bitterly cold and brutal weather is on our minds and doorsteps of late.

Fella, will post-up a little (as in quite brief) chapter 2 regarding oily wrists. LOL. It's actually a fun little swing topic at the end of the day.
Not sure I understand the oily wrist concept yet, but as I used to say in one of the news intros I used to do "When you need to know"
So
Do oily wrists catch bugs like flypaper would?
Can you use any oily substance- Crisco, olive oil (regular or extra virgin?)
Forget oily wrists for a second, what the heck is an extra virgin? Is that like buying a new dozen golf balls that's never been hit, then beside them on the shelf is another dozen that says "Extra never hit' or 'ENH' golf balls. Yep, ready to tee it up, got me some 'ENH' balls

So, can you get a filter for oily wrists so the oil lasts longer. Is there any special soap so when you shower the oil comes off easier?
Dial, Irish Spring, Olay, Ivory? Lyme... Extra Olay?
Do you need a dipstick for oily wrists so you know if you have too much or not enough? Inquisitive minds want to know...

See sixty' anotomical diagrams. Do not use wrist oil if allergic to your wrists. Stop using wrist oil if you experience episodes of sharting. Tell your Doctor if your body generates additional appendages including third or fourth arms and legs. Users of wrist oil report the ability to communicate with aliens.

Reasonability · January 25, 2019

Got to run. Will leave you guys with this.

There's an honest effort here to empathize and listen despite the obvious preaching. Trying hard to avoid taking myself and/or swing stuff "too" seriously. Perfectly OK with mixing personal passion AND a nice fun balance of humor inside the same convo. "Hope" that's evident but will say as much right out loud.

There's a certain blind faith in making ample room for both. Depending on you guys to help me keep it real - keep it fun. When the day comes, by my own hand, I ruined the Grille experience for you guys then I managed to also destroy the very spirit behind what started this ride in the first place.

Keep me in check gents. As you already clearly do. :)

Fellaheen51 · January 25, 2019

Don't sweat it Reason!!!!! It's all good and in keeping with the spirit of the grille. We just yak'n. I for one appreciate the passion you bring when the discussion turns to discussing golf swings. Not dissimilar to when we talk about the implements. Sometimes wanting to check myself out of concern that I'm rambling and boring others to tears.

So keep doing what you do. And Scotee's, et. al. contributions as well. For that's how I begin to understand something I've never studied. Let it flow.

Edit add: Have comments to make about your post. But may not be until the early morning hours when I have unfettered time.

BIG STU · January 25, 2019

Will toss one more broad generalization out there for convo purposes.

This too may well be far more personal perception than fact, but I've come to honestly believe it, FBOW.

No golfer is a purely mechanical while likewise the purely "feel" golfer likewise does not exist, either.

My conivtion about this is born of what I see over and over again in the world around me as well as myself. The feel golfer eventually (sooner or later) does at least something with his club specs, his grip, his swing.... in search of even better "feel".

The analytical/mechanical golfer sooner or later seeks to convert his analysis into a relaxed, calm, flowing, FEEL during execution. The feel golfer simply arrives at the same forks in the road but CHOOSES to favor mechanical fixes under the flag of "feel".

By labeling ourselves, we simply become more comfortable with facing the same forks in the road on the journey everyone faces. It's easier that way. And that's perfectly understandable. Just pointing out that IMO, the polar opposite golfers we sometimes "think" are out there - actually don't exist.
You are absolutely correct on the feel golfer about basically 'tuning" a club. I do it all the time. I had another member ask me one night what SW I had on my personal clubs. I told him I had no idea. I weigh them strictly by feel. I also set my lies by checking on my lie board and do not go by published spec numbers I bend it up to where I need it. Shafts for me are not consistent for me throughout a set. Grips are not either. No joke I have been blessed or cursed however I may look at it with uncanny feel. Sometimes on a particular club a Tour Velvet may feel better than a Tour Wrap. If some of these OCD people would go through my bag checking SW Shaft flex and grips they would have a coronary. I have been known on the range when dialing in a club to go to my truck where I have a small c clamp mounted vise and portable air tank and change a grip in a flash. I would not expect anyone to be able to play with the stuff I play with

Stu, question. When you're setting lies on your irons, do you adjust each iron the same across sets? In other words, a Hogan 7 iron would be the same lie as a Mac 7 iron. And am I assume that you adjust wedge lies according to how they feel and ball flight and they may be different depending on the wedge? What's your angle to all this. TIA.

Generally no---- When I hit one on the lie board and put it on the machine the only thing I use the indicated number for is a reference point as to how many degrees I went up or down. Different clubs sit differently due to design characteristics. Sometimes I have found especially with wedges lie angle can drastically affect bounce. Some of these newer clubs with what I call bouncy soles it makes a lot of difference throughout the whole set. Usually most specs generally there is 1/2* of lie angle between clubs. Look through some of the published standard specs for irons and you will see different stock lie angles for like say the 7 iron. A lot of it depends overall the basic design features of the club. Most of the time my standard lie angle for a wedge starts at 65*. Good example of club design is when I built the Callaway PM 56*. Stock form it had way too much bounce for me and at 65* the sole design hit and made the face do some funky stuff. My solution I hand filed it down some hit the lie board and some balls and file some more. Basically I put what I call a neutral grind on it and took it down to my standard 8* bounce. This was not a overnight solution either I worked with that thing on and off for 6 months. Had to deal with the weight too it was light to begin with stock and then I filed quite a bit off. I think I made a pretty decent wedge out of it----- But yeah one has to experiment on doing this type of thing or meatball surgery as I call it--- For me it is fun--- Hope I did not confuse or complicate things too much--- I am better doing a hands on explanation than a written one

SixtySomePing · January 25, 2019

Got to run. Will leave you guys with this.

There's an honest effort here to empathize and listen despite the obvious preaching. Trying hard to avoid taking myself and/or swing stuff "too" seriously. Perfectly OK with mixing personal passion AND a nice fun balance of humor inside the same convo. "Hope" that's evident but will say as much right out loud.

There's a certain blind faith in making ample room for both. Depending on you guys to help me keep it real - keep it fun. When the day comes, by my own hand, I ruined the Grille experience for you guys then I managed to also destroy the very spirit behind what started this ride in the first place.

Keep me in check gents. As you already clearly do. :)

I look forward to your passion and your humor Reasy... keep it coming, it's very well liked and very much appreciated :clapping: :good: You would never ruin the Grille experience, it would be like the day the music died if you weren't here...

BIG STU · January 26, 2019

Got to run. Will leave you guys with this.

There's an honest effort here to empathize and listen despite the obvious preaching. Trying hard to avoid taking myself and/or swing stuff "too" seriously. Perfectly OK with mixing personal passion AND a nice fun balance of humor inside the same convo. "Hope" that's evident but will say as much right out loud.

There's a certain blind faith in making ample room for both. Depending on you guys to help me keep it real - keep it fun. When the day comes, by my own hand, I ruined the Grille experience for you guys then I managed to also destroy the very spirit behind what started this ride in the first place.

Keep me in check gents. As you already clearly do. :)
I look forward to your passion and your humor Reasy... keep it coming, it's very well liked and very much appreciated :clapping: :good: You would never ruin the Grille experience, it would be like the day the music died if you weren't here...
[media=]
[/media]

I agree with Sixty 110% keep it keeping on there Reasy. Like I have said many times Reasy and I would make a great team if we ran a golf school driving range. He could do the swing thing while I did the club building and engineering thing. LOL if I was not busy in the shop and looking out over the teaching area coffee and cigar firmly in hand I could say--- "Reasy just tell them to hit the frigging ball"----

Fellaheen51 · January 26, 2019

Think there's some physics involved with how far we can hit a golf ball. Given our SS, so say'th the charts. Kinda where I should be given my SS (that will not be revealed in a public forum). A new driver isn't going to significantly change the laws of nature. Have high hopes that Reason's oily wrists swing thing will restore some measure of lost distance. He kinda implied that it might. Think the term used was "effortless distance". IIRC.

Beyond the 1/10 chance my rants are deemed in any way truly informational/useful -AND - given my annoying use of punctuation... :)

Can't resist the chum. My inner swing rant-o-meter is red lining. May not have been the intent whatsoever, but the heart strings have been plucked one way or the other.

If I haven't by now earned a rep for trying to unwind the knot of confusing and nebulous swing jargon, then at least I've fought the good fight. That very jargon paralyzes golfers. They're (not you personally) afraid to give the conceptual "thing" any form of reasonable action. They withdraw from even speaking of it. As a result, the more said, the more so many golfers eventually shut down. The cycle spirals. IMHO this is more than a little tragic since the journey becomes just that much dimmed. Just like denying one's self the opportunity to try different sticks, shafts, lead tape, yadda.

This swing minutiae stuff clearly doesn't have to be part of the journey, and it clearly isn't part of it for a vast population of those playing it. What I personally see at the end of the day is, it all morphs into a tangled up mess of jargon unworthy of the energy/effort to waste the time even touching. And even if we did, (to Scotee's point), we can find posts and vids that proclaim "x" while another claims "y" leaving us all chasing our tails.

So "oily wrists". Why would this one be any different? Just one more in the ocean of roads to nowhere? Just another confusing, conceptual, and nebulous doo-dad better left unexplored? Why bother? Who cares? BFD!!!! :).

Once again, it's all nested in yet another misleading bit of everyday swing jargon. Namely, "swing speed". That term is here to stay and no one is hereby encouraged to abandon it. BUT FOR SURE - it's misleading and confusing. It implies the 20 year old gym rat who power lifts 4 times his body can have it while le we can't. Not true!

So now I will single-out Fella. He tried it and on day one he experienced what it is and what it isn't. We know this from his follow up to giving it a go. He shared that he FELT attempts to send it farther with faster via. His ARMS yielded nothing much in terms of result. (Other than tiring him out). But he also verbalized how a softer / smoother transition followed by a lot of wrist oiliness through the strike delivered immediate changes to ball flights. He immediately discovered the difference. That's THE first big step! THAT is all it takes is THAT simple awareness. THAT is the hitching post from which whatever else in terms of little nuances in feel or mechanics is born. And most of all, THAT is precisely how we all can get more from a shot with half the effort.

In effect, he discovered the difference in "swing speed" and the one that truly matters.... CLUBHEAD SPEED.

IMHO, swing "stuff" tends to travel in little groups. One single swing flaw may not by itself be a deal maker/breaker. In my book multiples are in play. And this is where the rants loose people - big time. But I'll also go out on a limb and say there are some good things, which when done well, pull other good things into the picture automatically.

Grip, setup posture, reduced tension, a nice rhythm, balance, all fly to mind. But I don't care who the golfer is, he DOES NOT have the ability to manage a one-thousand point checklist at setup and he absolutely CAN'T manage a head full of thoughts mid-swing.

But what does happen with oily wrists is that other good things get pulled along with it - consciously or subconsciously it just simply happens. Quick examples.... if you swing up the follow through with your trail sign palm facing to to ground, you "flipped" it. There's your lower flights duck hook. If you passed through that same post-impact with the the tail hand palm facing skyward, the club face would be open at impact. Hello pushes and weak fades. If you transition too abruptly and hard with the arms, your wrists will never have time to be oily. You'll fight all manner of sway, your upper body won't stay behind the ball until she's long gone, so you'll end up fighting versus using your own posture.

It drags with it, a better smoother takeaway. It invites us to not crown (edit: "crowd") the ball at address. This list just goes on and on.

So all by itself - this stupid wrist versus arms thing drags good things into good habit. We don't have to work so hard at it. We don't have to be a gym rat, or own a 19-year-old spine. We don't need to know or understand anyone's swing theory, learn "p" this or "p" that positions. No need to unpack jargon. It minimizes what to think about thus freeing up the mind. It can be experienced inside one small bucket of balls. Anyone can FEEL if they're releasing it too late or too early. The amount of arm involvement versus oiliness in the wrists is quite "feel-able". As is the general way the trail hand feels after the strike.

Wheels down and locked. Coming in for a landing amid the rant of all rants. Please fasten statelets. Make sure your seat back and tray table are in the full upright and locked position.

I do not know everything for sure. No man has all the answers for all golfers all the time. There is precious little these days I would project onto others just because I personally have experienced it. This one is an exception simply because it drags so many other little good things with it and it's so easy to go try for yourself.

Thank you for flying Reason Airlines.

Ah, the peace and quiet of the early morning hours to collect one's thoughts on random topics.

You are correct on your assessment of Swing Speed. A misnomer. When the correct thought process should be clubhead speed as that generates ball speed. The later being the determinant of how far a golf ball will fly. One of those terms to easily dropped into a conversation without full understanding of the dynamics. Will attempt to add to the "do not use" list of golf jargon.

I've fought a slice forever. Still do if I'm not cognizant of some swing things. Namely, have a tendency to be to upright with the swing, and come across the ball (I think). Plus, the fault of having my lower body opening up while the upper body is lagging behind. Bam, bolo slice. Especially with longer clubs in hand. Flattening out the plane, creates an improved hip turn, and focusing on trying to hit through the ball at seemingly aiming 20* to the right. Inside out swing? Seems to work, but don't know exactly why. Never considered, nor paid attention to what my hands were doing.

How does this relate to the wrist thing? Not sure. But did notice during the now 2x at the golf dome. If I'm setting and releasing the club with wrist action, Don't have to think about anything else other than that one function. Everything else sorta falls into place. I start gripping the club in my fingers (rather than palm) instinctually. With repetition, wasn't having to focus on the timing of the release. I was attempting to not move the body at all (having a tendency to sway). Wanting to just feel what was happening with nothing other than the wrists. No other sensations other than that. Then it became sorta strange. Felt quite relaxed over the ball. Felt good in my address, the arms were swinging free and easy. Seemed to be turning on the ball better, with an improved finish position. Didn't feel like I was swinging all that hard. And started hitting crisp, clean shots, that flew off of the clubface.

Recognizing I was primarily using a 7 iron and PW. Shorter club, easier to control. On the second trip, had the 6 iron along (with the build completed). Hitting a 6 iron prior has been a bit of a dicey proposition. Fair amount of inconsistency, could hit a poor shot as easily as a good one. I've tended to shy away from it's use when playing. I was hitting solid 6 iron shots when I snapped the wrist through the ball. Was launching off the club face with authority. Quite unlike what I've experienced in the past.

Granted, this was indoors, off mats, with a max distance of 115 yards to the back of the dome. So impossible to ascertain any distance gains realized. But simply watching the ball as it departs, angle of trajectory and perceived velocity, think there may very well be have been some. Furthermore, when executed correctly, the ball went straight. And dare I say it, felt like I could begin feeling what it's like to work the ball. Could get a semblance of a draw when releasing the right hand wrist with a bit of roll to it. I've never been able to hit a draw on command. Always by accident, that bordered on a snap hook.

Yet to try the wrist thing with D or fairways. Haven't had them along. With length comes more opportunity for mishitting. So will have to become acclimated with all this business with those in hand. But I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to get back to an outdoor range eventually and trial across the bag. Seems to simple. Why am I seemingly striking the ball better by having a whole lot less of body, arms, posture, involved in the process? IDK. No where close yet to being routine or trusted during heated competitive play. Can't think of six different swing things while trying to "hit the damn ball". One I can handle.

Wriggles · January 26, 2019

A sunny, cold 19 degrees yesterday. Hooked up the battery and started the Lebaron. I was going to take it for a spin, but the $20 car cover was still frozen in some places. Let it run for 15 minutes.

Got an email from Rock Bottom Golf. Free shipping, no minimum. Browsed the site, don't want anything. This is the first January I don't want to buy anything golf related.

As far as the swing discussion, I'm happy I can still even drive a ball with 200 or so carry. I'm getting very little body motion, just basically arm movement that does not go that far back. I'm afraid more drives from the ladies' tees will be in order.

Came across a web site for the Concours event at Amelia Island. A lot of the pictures show old guys in extremely valuable cars, with young ladies posing around them.

The missus was reading on some web site that in order to be considered "wealthy" a person would have to be worth at least $2.7 million. That category leaves me out by several millions. I recall, when my Dad retired, he had around $50K in the bank. He thought he was rich. When he and Mom went on Social Security at age 62, Dad made more money than when he worked. I recall another guy I golfed with said the same thing.

Musings on a Saturday morning.

BIG STU · January 26, 2019

Fella do not fight the slice so much. Hey it eliminates one side of the fairway. I remember this one hustler that made a bunch of that banana ball plus he had a dynamite short game. My old man told him he could fix that slice. he asked my old man "why the hell would I want to fix my slice? I know where my ball is going which is more than I can say about 95% of these guys whose butts I am kicking". Now he lost distance for sure but on those short sorta tight courses we played in the area it was not a big deal. He was killing us. My old man told me and a buddy of mine named WC to take him to the beach on these long courses and we would kill him. About 30 of us went to the beach for 4 days. We took him to a course called Robbers Roost and we killed him the first day. Got up for breakfast the next morning and he was MIA. Checked with the motel he had checked out at 6 Am and went back to Charlotte. He knew when to pull up. Of course it bit him in the butt because he could not get any action on the North side of Charlotte for a while. He moved his little banana game to nearby Cabarrus county and the south side of Charlotte for a while.

Fellaheen51 · January 26, 2019

Wrigs. Locally, there is the Concours d'Elegance of America. Last year was their 40th anniversary. Prior to the current location, it was held at Meadowbrook Hall which is close by. The estate of of Matilda Dodge Wilson, widow of automotive pioneer John Dodge. It's a Concours that rivals Pebble Beach in importance and prestige amongst that circle. Have had the opportunity to attend twice, courtesy of free ducets from my BIL. Yeah, it's a rarefied and monied air given the nature of owning and maintaining automobiles of this quality. Got a feeling most are not performing their own wrench work. But if one gets past some of the pomp and pretense and focuses on the cars, they're quite extraordinary. Remembering some of 30's era vehicles being drop dead gorgeous. Really enjoyed it both times. Except many seemed to be dressed up in their summer finery. We were slumming around in shorts and untucked polo shirts. Oh well, didn't get thrown out because of inappropriate attire. This was last year's Concours:

https://www.conceptc...t-st-johns.aspx

Somewhat related to this, and mentioned in the above, is the GM Heritage Center. Something of a central depository for many of GM's show, experimental and best of breed automobiles over a 100+ years. Not open to the public, only by special arrangements. About 10 years ago, was performing some P/T work for a small digital media equipment company under contact with GM. Was doing the site training at locales around the country. One winter day, had training to perform at the Heritage Center. Didn't know anything about it. Only to discover what was inside. After the second day of training, asked if it was OK to walk around for awhile inside the vast warehouse where all these cars are displayed and maintained. "Yeah, sure. Go ahead." So it's just myself, all by my lonesome, with only a couple of workers way in the back. Beyond cool!!! Checking all these vehicles out, up close and personal, with no one else around. Very quiet as I recall. The absolutely perfect '53 Buick Skylark convertible was stunning. If anyone remembers the line by Richard Pryor in the movie "Silver Streak" on why chose to steal the Jag, this Buick matched the description. The Heritage Center with pics of some of the cars within, including the Skylark:

https://www.gmherita...tion/index.html

scomac2002 · January 26, 2019

Pretty cool links there, Fella! I especially liked the link to the GM Heritage center. Brought back a lot of memories and yes, you are correct, the '53 Buick Skylark is one of the most stunningly beautiful cars I've seen! Of special interest to me was the '62 Bel-Aire. My Dad had a '61 2 dr. hardtop just like that one in white.

scomac2002 · January 26, 2019

One of the guys over on the Classics section posted this link as part of a discussion regarding riding a train to the golf course over in the UK. I can't get this song out of my mind since it was first put up! :wacko:

Fellaheen51 · January 26, 2019

Not just any '62 Bel Air. But one equipped with the legendary 409 engine. The personification of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" street racer. "4 speed, dual, quad, posi-traction, 409". Now that I can't get the tune out of my head, a slightly different version by the incomparable Junior Brown.

Fellaheen51 · January 26, 2019

Also, Sco. Listened to that tune over there and it's been rolling around in my head since. A classic folk standard. Original composition by the long departed but still relevant Steve Goodman. He, Kris Kristofferson, John Prine were part of the Chicago folk music scene way BITD.

scomac2002 · January 26, 2019

Not just any '62 Bel Air. But one equipped with the legendary 409 engine. The personification of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" street racer. "4 speed, dual, quad, posi-traction, 409". Now that I can't get the tune out of my head, a slightly different version by the incomparable Junior Brown.

[media=]
[/media]

Unfortunately (or not) my Dad's Bel-Aire wasn't equipped with a 409, more like a 283 with a 3 speed automatic, so it was pretty staid in comparison, but still a lovely car with red vinyl interior contrasted against the bright white paint.

SixtySomePing · January 26, 2019

Got to run. Will leave you guys with this.

There's an honest effort here to empathize and listen despite the obvious preaching. Trying hard to avoid taking myself and/or swing stuff "too" seriously. Perfectly OK with mixing personal passion AND a nice fun balance of humor inside the same convo. "Hope" that's evident but will say as much right out loud.

There's a certain blind faith in making ample room for both. Depending on you guys to help me keep it real - keep it fun. When the day comes, by my own hand, I ruined the Grille experience for you guys then I managed to also destroy the very spirit behind what started this ride in the first place.

Keep me in check gents. As you already clearly do. :)
I look forward to your passion and your humor Reasy... keep it coming, it's very well liked and very much appreciated :clapping: :good: You would never ruin the Grille experience, it would be like the day the music died if you weren't here...
[media=]
[/media]
I agree with Sixty 110% keep it keeping on there Reasy. Like I have said many times Reasy and I would make a great team if we ran a golf school driving range. He could do the swing thing while I did the club building and engineering thing. LOL if I was not busy in the shop and looking out over the teaching area coffee and cigar firmly in hand I could say--- "Reasy just tell them to hit the frigging ball"----

Now you're talkin', where do I sign up?

SixtySomePing · January 26, 2019

Not just any '62 Bel Air. But one equipped with the legendary 409 engine. The personification of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" street racer. "4 speed, dual, quad, posi-traction, 409". Now that I can't get the tune out of my head, a slightly different version by the incomparable Junior Brown.

[media=]
[/media]

Great song Fella, funny I was boppin' around at work this week, singing that one to myself and I had this one goin' on too, Little Deuce Coup...

Reasonability · January 26, 2019

Got to run. Will leave you guys with this.

There's an honest effort here to empathize and listen despite the obvious preaching. Trying hard to avoid taking myself and/or swing stuff "too" seriously. Perfectly OK with mixing personal passion AND a nice fun balance of humor inside the same convo. "Hope" that's evident but will say as much right out loud.

There's a certain blind faith in making ample room for both. Depending on you guys to help me keep it real - keep it fun. When the day comes, by my own hand, I ruined the Grille experience for you guys then I managed to also destroy the very spirit behind what started this ride in the first place.

Keep me in check gents. As you already clearly do. :)
I look forward to your passion and your humor Reasy... keep it coming, it's very well liked and very much appreciated :clapping: :good: You would never ruin the Grille experience, it would be like the day the music died if you weren't here...
[media=]
[/media]
I agree with Sixty 110% keep it keeping on there Reasy. Like I have said many times Reasy and I would make a great team if we ran a golf school driving range. He could do the swing thing while I did the club building and engineering thing. LOL if I was not busy in the shop and looking out over the teaching area coffee and cigar firmly in hand I could say--- "Reasy just tell them to hit the frigging ball"----
Now you're talkin', where do I sign up?

My buds. Now just how cool would that be? "He's all your's Stuey. I've done my little thing with him but this guy is 100% ready and waiting for your brand of magic. Tune him up and have fun." Given the right alignment of the stars and planets, I'd jump on the idea in a heartbeat. Would be more fun than is legally allowed. If we don't get it done in this life Stu - then let's be sure to set up shop in the next one. We shouldn't deny ourselves the great ride that would be.

Speaking of stars and planets, these video posts are just the perfect thing amid cabin fever. Loved the story telling nested in so many songs from BITD. And in the spirit of a cool Don McLean tune here's a headphones moment inspired by you good people.

Reasonability · January 26, 2019

Think there's some physics involved with how far we can hit a golf ball. Given our SS, so say'th the charts. Kinda where I should be given my SS (that will not be revealed in a public forum). A new driver isn't going to significantly change the laws of nature. Have high hopes that Reason's oily wrists swing thing will restore some measure of lost distance. He kinda implied that it might. Think the term used was "effortless distance". IIRC.

Beyond the 1/10 chance my rants are deemed in any way truly informational/useful -AND - given my annoying use of punctuation... :)

Can't resist the chum. My inner swing rant-o-meter is red lining. May not have been the intent whatsoever, but the heart strings have been plucked one way or the other.

If I haven't by now earned a rep for trying to unwind the knot of confusing and nebulous swing jargon, then at least I've fought the good fight. That very jargon paralyzes golfers. They're (not you personally) afraid to give the conceptual "thing" any form of reasonable action. They withdraw from even speaking of it. As a result, the more said, the more so many golfers eventually shut down. The cycle spirals. IMHO this is more than a little tragic since the journey becomes just that much dimmed. Just like denying one's self the opportunity to try different sticks, shafts, lead tape, yadda.

This swing minutiae stuff clearly doesn't have to be part of the journey, and it clearly isn't part of it for a vast population of those playing it. What I personally see at the end of the day is, it all morphs into a tangled up mess of jargon unworthy of the energy/effort to waste the time even touching. And even if we did, (to Scotee's point), we can find posts and vids that proclaim "x" while another claims "y" leaving us all chasing our tails.

So "oily wrists". Why would this one be any different? Just one more in the ocean of roads to nowhere? Just another confusing, conceptual, and nebulous doo-dad better left unexplored? Why bother? Who cares? BFD!!!! :).

Once again, it's all nested in yet another misleading bit of everyday swing jargon. Namely, "swing speed". That term is here to stay and no one is hereby encouraged to abandon it. BUT FOR SURE - it's misleading and confusing. It implies the 20 year old gym rat who power lifts 4 times his body can have it while le we can't. Not true!

So now I will single-out Fella. He tried it and on day one he experienced what it is and what it isn't. We know this from his follow up to giving it a go. He shared that he FELT attempts to send it farther with faster via. His ARMS yielded nothing much in terms of result. (Other than tiring him out). But he also verbalized how a softer / smoother transition followed by a lot of wrist oiliness through the strike delivered immediate changes to ball flights. He immediately discovered the difference. That's THE first big step! THAT is all it takes is THAT simple awareness. THAT is the hitching post from which whatever else in terms of little nuances in feel or mechanics is born. And most of all, THAT is precisely how we all can get more from a shot with half the effort.

In effect, he discovered the difference in "swing speed" and the one that truly matters.... CLUBHEAD SPEED.

IMHO, swing "stuff" tends to travel in little groups. One single swing flaw may not by itself be a deal maker/breaker. In my book multiples are in play. And this is where the rants loose people - big time. But I'll also go out on a limb and say there are some good things, which when done well, pull other good things into the picture automatically.

Grip, setup posture, reduced tension, a nice rhythm, balance, all fly to mind. But I don't care who the golfer is, he DOES NOT have the ability to manage a one-thousand point checklist at setup and he absolutely CAN'T manage a head full of thoughts mid-swing.

But what does happen with oily wrists is that other good things get pulled along with it - consciously or subconsciously it just simply happens. Quick examples.... if you swing up the follow through with your trail sign palm facing to to ground, you "flipped" it. There's your lower flights duck hook. If you passed through that same post-impact with the the tail hand palm facing skyward, the club face would be open at impact. Hello pushes and weak fades. If you transition too abruptly and hard with the arms, your wrists will never have time to be oily. You'll fight all manner of sway, your upper body won't stay behind the ball until she's long gone, so you'll end up fighting versus using your own posture.

It drags with it, a better smoother takeaway. It invites us to not crown (edit: "crowd") the ball at address. This list just goes on and on.

So all by itself - this stupid wrist versus arms thing drags good things into good habit. We don't have to work so hard at it. We don't have to be a gym rat, or own a 19-year-old spine. We don't need to know or understand anyone's swing theory, learn "p" this or "p" that positions. No need to unpack jargon. It minimizes what to think about thus freeing up the mind. It can be experienced inside one small bucket of balls. Anyone can FEEL if they're releasing it too late or too early. The amount of arm involvement versus oiliness in the wrists is quite "feel-able". As is the general way the trail hand feels after the strike.

Wheels down and locked. Coming in for a landing amid the rant of all rants. Please fasten statelets. Make sure your seat back and tray table are in the full upright and locked position.

I do not know everything for sure. No man has all the answers for all golfers all the time. There is precious little these days I would project onto others just because I personally have experienced it. This one is an exception simply because it drags so many other little good things with it and it's so easy to go try for yourself.

Thank you for flying Reason Airlines.

Ah, the peace and quiet of the early morning hours to collect one's thoughts on random topics.

You are correct on your assessment of Swing Speed. A misnomer. When the correct thought process should be clubhead speed as that generates ball speed. The later being the determinant of how far a golf ball will fly. One of those terms to easily dropped into a conversation without full understanding of the dynamics. Will attempt to add to the "do not use" list of golf jargon.

I've fought a slice forever. Still do if I'm not cognizant of some swing things. Namely, have a tendency to be to upright with the swing, and come across the ball (I think). Plus, the fault of having my lower body opening up while the upper body is lagging behind. Bam, bolo slice. Especially with longer clubs in hand. Flattening out the plane, creates an improved hip turn, and focusing on trying to hit through the ball at seemingly aiming 20* to the right. Inside out swing? Seems to work, but don't know exactly why. Never considered, nor paid attention to what my hands were doing.

How does this relate to the wrist thing? Not sure. But did notice during the now 2x at the golf dome. If I'm setting and releasing the club with wrist action, Don't have to think about anything else other than that one function. Everything else sorta falls into place. I start gripping the club in my fingers (rather than palm) instinctually. With repetition, wasn't having to focus on the timing of the release. I was attempting to not move the body at all (having a tendency to sway). Wanting to just feel what was happening with nothing other than the wrists. No other sensations other than that. Then it became sorta strange. Felt quite relaxed over the ball. Felt good in my address, the arms were swinging free and easy. Seemed to be turning on the ball better, with an improved finish position. Didn't feel like I was swinging all that hard. And started hitting crisp, clean shots, that flew off of the clubface.

Recognizing I was primarily using a 7 iron and PW. Shorter club, easier to control. On the second trip, had the 6 iron along (with the build completed). Hitting a 6 iron prior has been a bit of a dicey proposition. Fair amount of inconsistency, could hit a poor shot as easily as a good one. I've tended to shy away from it's use when playing. I was hitting solid 6 iron shots when I snapped the wrist through the ball. Was launching off the club face with authority. Quite unlike what I've experienced in the past.

Granted, this was indoors, off mats, with a max distance of 115 yards to the back of the dome. So impossible to ascertain any distance gains realized. But simply watching the ball as it departs, angle of trajectory and perceived velocity, think there may very well be have been some. Furthermore, when executed correctly, the ball went straight. And dare I say it, felt like I could begin feeling what it's like to work the ball. Could get a semblance of a draw when releasing the right hand wrist with a bit of roll to it. I've never been able to hit a draw on command. Always by accident, that bordered on a snap hook.

Yet to try the wrist thing with D or fairways. Haven't had them along. With length comes more opportunity for mishitting. So will have to become acclimated with all this business with those in hand. But I'm looking forward to having the opportunity to get back to an outdoor range eventually and trial across the bag. Seems to simple. Why am I seemingly striking the ball better by having a whole lot less of body, arms, posture, involved in the process? IDK. No where close yet to being routine or trusted during heated competitive play. Can't think of six different swing things while trying to "hit the damn ball". One I can handle.

All I can say is there isn't one single word of this - from the feel to the improved grip to how the 6 iron cooperated that isn't exactly what comes with this little package.

Mats won't make it more difficult to execute in the great outdoors. The only potential "change" is possible seeing the lie on the turf and converting that somehow into old habits. But the dynamics of it all still apply. Even when in the rough believe it or not.

Totally agree the driver is almost always the last critter to cooperate. Prolly a zillion reasons why. But this stuff applies to it just as much any stick in the bag.

Good job my friend. You "get it". You now have it and can own it.. Part of the whole awareness system. Uncomplicated, simple, powerful, and useful. Well done and have yourself a blast with it. One of those things you can "let" happen way ahead of forcing it to - which is about as cool as it gets in my book.

About the only downside risk I can find with it is more "mental" or "emotional" than anything else. And it's only an issue initially.

Once you experience it, it's important (IMO) to relax into it - TRUST it so to speak. Old habits need pretty heavy doses of that once a score card is in your pocket. Even the occasional unguided missiles (that's always going to happen along the way) has to be met with asking yourself if it was a good release through the ball. Was it too much in terms of arms? Was that smooth transition part of it? Did my trail hand fly up the follow-through swing like I want it to? Until it's just the automatic "thing" from shot to shot, such questions (for me) we're sometimes coming and going during a round. Seems like one of those things whereby the more you relate to it, the less you think such thoughts as you play - which you've already experienced.

BIG STU · January 26, 2019

Not just any '62 Bel Air. But one equipped with the legendary 409 engine. The personification of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" street racer. "4 speed, dual, quad, posi-traction, 409". Now that I can't get the tune out of my head, a slightly different version by the incomparable Junior Brown.

[media=]
[/media]

Believe it or not there is a guy here at the beach that has a perfectly restored one. White short top 62 Bel Air Red interior dog dish hubcaps and a 409. He shows it quite a bit in the various local events we have here. We call those the short top Bel Air as opposed to the fastback or greenhouse version. The greenhouse version was built and designed for NASCAR racing because GM was still in racing then. A guy named Rex White won the Nascar championship in 61 with a fastback Bel Air and then Ned Jarrett won the championship the next year in a 62 greenhouse version> Both of those cars ran the 409 engine