Frost Delays: Tee Time Delay

[Socrates]

At my club, when there is a frost delay everyone is moved to a later time, but if there are gaps in the tee sheet, the times "compress" so the first group on the sheet may have an hour delay but someone who had a 11am time with nobody signed up in the 45 minutes before him may only be delayed a few minutes. Nobody is kicked off the tee sheet. As frost delay season approaches, the club gradually makes the first tee time available a later time, but we still have these knuckleheads who want to tee off at 8am when it is pretty much a 100% guarantee they will be frost delayed to 9:30am or later.

They are the same knuckleheads who want a 6:00 am tee time middle of September and think you're full of it when you tell them it's impossible because it's still dark at that time and the first tee time is 7:30.

[Mr. Bean]

I can see the Finland model working IF everyone is from there. Very hard to do when the course is a resort destination and books months out in advance.

 

This kind of problem exists for places like Phoenix or Palm Springs where people book their times weeks or months in advance. Sure you (the course operator) know that frost is a risk at certain times of the year, but you can't block off time or tell the customer and/or the course owner you are blocking off thousands of dollars worth of tee times because there might be frost 12 weeks from now.

 

I do not know how this works in Phoenix or in Palm Springs but here in Finland people do not go to holiday resorts to play golf when there are frost delays, we go there in the summer.

 

And believe or not, during the summer there are NO frost delays even in Finland! :taunt: :taunt:

 

P.S. A very good friend of mine used to work for Pan Am here in Finland some decades ago. Once (again) he got some customers from the Good Old USA and they were keen on understanding how we can live in such a country where temperatures can go below -25C. Well, my friend told them 'If it is -25C we go to the deep-freezer, it is only -18C there!'

[BillyZ2]

All customers need to be considered when there are frost delays, such as the group who purposely books after a suspected frost delay (10:00am ish) and must leave the course at around 3:00pm ish, is it fair to push them back in time to where they cannot play for the sake of those who did not bother to plan properly? There are two sides to the situation.

[slc247]

pull the starter and just have open tees, what could go wrong

[Mr. Bean]

pull the starter and just have open tees, what could go wrong

 

What does 'pull the starter' mean?

 

And what are open tees and how does them help?

 

Sorry for not understanding all the language.

 

EDIT: Does it mean that no starter and let the people to form their own groups? Is that it?

 

Well, I can tell you what can and certainly will go wrong.

 

First of all, people cannot form their own groups, not here nor there. There will always be certain individuals who want to play a twosome even though there are 90 persons waiting in queue.

 

Second, without regular and large enough starting intervals the course will be packed and the round will last 6 hours. This means no pleasure to anyone plus no daylight left for those who booked their tee time early afternoon.

 

So, who wins..? And what went wrong..?

[Greenie]

OP I posted that exact same post last Winter. I got hammered pretty good complaining.

I would plan ahead with the weather knowing there would be a frost delay. I would make a 10 am tee time clear of the frost only to show up and have to wait for several hrs. to get off because of the frost delay and the others going off first that made times for 7 am knowing darn well there was no way they were going off until much later. So what I ended up doing was the same as the rest that were gaming the system. The course never let a group off before 9:30 when there was frost so I would make my tee time for 7 am or as early as possible and show up at 9:30. I never had to wait very long to tee off that way. Of all the times I did this I never got stuck with having to show up at the actual time I made so it worked for me.

[slc247]

pull the starter and just have open tees, what could go wrong

 

What does 'pull the starter' mean?

 

And what are open tees and how does them help?

 

Sorry for not understanding all the language.

 

EDIT: Does it mean that no starter and let the people to form their own groups? Is that it?

exactly....Im not always helpful

[Socrates]

I can see the Finland model working IF everyone is from there. Very hard to do when the course is a resort destination and books months out in advance.

 

This kind of problem exists for places like Phoenix or Palm Springs where people book their times weeks or months in advance. Sure you (the course operator) know that frost is a risk at certain times of the year, but you can't block off time or tell the customer and/or the course owner you are blocking off thousands of dollars worth of tee times because there might be frost 12 weeks from now.

 

I do not know how this works in Phoenix or in Palm Springs but here in Finland people do not go to holiday resorts to play golf when there are frost delays, we go there in the summer.

 

And believe or not, during the summer there are NO frost delays even in Finland! :taunt: :taunt:

 

P.S. A very good friend of mine used to work for Pan Am here in Finland some decades ago. Once (again) he got some customers from the Good Old USA and they were keen on understanding how we can live in such a country where temperatures can go below -25C. Well, my friend told them 'If it is -25C we go to the deep-freezer, it is only -18C there!'

Even though many think that Phoenix and Palm Springs are hot all year round, there are quite a number of weeks/months where the overnight temp can easily dip to near the freezing point over night and then during the day go into the high 70's and low 80's. Even more so if the course is at elevation. Millions of people visit or "winter" in these areas while their normal homes are under snow or it is damn cold.

 

I for one go to either area in December or February for a week and you may or may not run into frost situations depending on the weather. Last Feb. I spent 10 days in Mesa, AZ and ran into frost delays 2x in 8 rounds. The year before I had none. These are the times of the year to play in these areas since the weather is ideal while summer in these areas, the temp can easily hit 110º and more. You don't go to Palm Springs or Phoenix in the summer unless you like melting.

[Socrates]

All customers need to be considered when there are frost delays, such as the group who purposely books after a suspected frost delay (10:00am ish) and must leave the course at around 3:00pm ish, is it fair to push them back in time to where they cannot play for the sake of those who did not bother to plan properly? There are two sides to the situation.

Know in all likelihood that there will be frost and then booking the later tee time is NOT planning properly. If you were planning properly, you would be booking the 8am tee time and expecting the delay but being ready just in case that you will be playing at 8am or close to it.

[Mr. Bean]

Even though many think that Phoenix and Palm Springs are hot all year round, there are quite a number of weeks/months where the overnight temp can easily dip to near the freezing point over night and then during the day go into the high 70's and low 80's. Even more so if the course is at elevation. Millions of people visit or "winter" in these areas while their normal homes are under snow or it is damn cold.

 

I for one go to either area in December or February for a week and you may or may not run into frost situations depending on the weather. Last Feb. I spent 10 days in Mesa, AZ and ran into frost delays 2x in 8 rounds. The year before I had none. These are the times of the year to play in these areas since the weather is ideal while summer in these areas, the temp can easily hit 110º and more. You don't go to Palm Springs or Phoenix in the summer unless you like melting.

 

Thank you for the clarification. It starts to make sense to me.

[Mr. Bean]

All customers need to be considered when there are frost delays, such as the group who purposely books after a suspected frost delay (10:00am ish) and must leave the course at around 3:00pm ish, is it fair to push them back in time to where they cannot play for the sake of those who did not bother to plan properly? There are two sides to the situation.

Know in all likelihood that there will be frost and then booking the later tee time is NOT planning properly. If you were planning properly, you would be booking the 8am tee time and expecting the delay but being ready just in case that you will be playing at 8am or close to it.

 

This is where our worlds do not coincide.

 

Around here you take a chance if you book a time very early and if you lose you do not play. So if you want to play safe you plan your tee time late enough. Should there be no delay you will be playing your own tee time in any case. THAT is proper planning around here.

 

At this point I am done with this discussion. As I said earlier, there are good and less good things with both practices. We are grown accustomed to our practice and are content with it and certainly know how to live with it.

 

Besides, should you lose your tee time.... is that the end of the world..? Not to me. S**t happens, I'll do something else, no problem.

[BillyZ2]

All customers need to be considered when there are frost delays, such as the group who purposely books after a suspected frost delay (10:00am ish) and must leave the course at around 3:00pm ish, is it fair to push them back in time to where they cannot play for the sake of those who did not bother to plan properly? There are two sides to the situation.

Know in all likelihood that there will be frost and then booking the later tee time is NOT planning properly. If you were planning properly, you would be booking the 8am tee time and expecting the delay but being ready just in case that you will be playing at 8am or close to it.

Thanks for putting the word 'not' in caps, otherwise I would have missed it. Although you are probably right that it wouldn't be the best planning to book at 10 a.m. tee time expecting a frost, but maybe it should be?

[DavePelz4]

We laugh at you Finland!

 

And that's from someone with the word "Cleveland" in his profile!

 

 

 

xx-- Just playing, I used to live in Erie which is very much like Findland, just without the natural beauty

 

Erie PA- crackhead capital of the world per capita.

 

And home of the Oneders...

[Socrates]

All customers need to be considered when there are frost delays, such as the group who purposely books after a suspected frost delay (10:00am ish) and must leave the course at around 3:00pm ish, is it fair to push them back in time to where they cannot play for the sake of those who did not bother to plan properly? There are two sides to the situation.

Know in all likelihood that there will be frost and then booking the later tee time is NOT planning properly. If you were planning properly, you would be booking the 8am tee time and expecting the delay but being ready just in case that you will be playing at 8am or close to it.

Thanks for putting the word 'not' in caps, otherwise I would have missed it. Although you are probably right that it wouldn't be the best planning to book at 10 a.m. tee time expecting a frost, but maybe it should be?

You're welcome. Too many skim a post without reading. I didn't want to risk that. ;)

[Sun Devil]

I don't know. Business runs on a schedule. Doctors/dentist offices, airports, restaurant reservations, etc. etc.. I have a small business/practice and I am very punctual of my clients's appointed times.

 

Delaying the tee times seems more about keeping people happy so they will return. More about revenue. I get it. Scottsdale. Keep the visitors happy.

 

It works both ways. This pattern will make the early tee times happy, but those that had to be displaced .... or those visitors that made those later tee times expecting to play all 18 holes are going to be angry.

 

Well back to the AFC championship.

[jslane57]

I'll say this. At a golf course with regulars, those regulars have the early tee-times every single week and play your course every single week. If there is anyone the course should be accommodating, it is their regulars. I've seen courses do frost delays both ways, while the easiest way for the kids in the pro-shop is to just delete the tee-times who were impacted by frost delay, if those are your regulars, big mistake...

[DavePelz4]

A few of the courses here will call/text in the morning once they know if there is a frost delay.

[BrandonDunes]

This Christmas I had a chance to play with my other brother and his friend who booked like 30 tee time spots the morning after Thanksgiving, and his friends are the rowdy kind. Well instead I ended up playing later with my dad and we had to wait an hour to tee off due to frost, and our tee time was 12pm, then there was 3 groups ahead of us on the 2nd tee box when we got there. Slowest round I've ever played!

 

Morale of the story: if you have a chance, always play earlier in the winter

[Shilgy]

For those of you blaming the early birds for not planning ahead. We book our times 8 days in advance at our club. Here in Phoenix we most assuredly do not know 8 days in advance if there will be frost.

[Sun Devil]

another idea. On frost delays ...how about starting all the early groups and the present groups as a shotgun on every hole. Wouldn't that save time and allow everyone to tee off closer to their tee time? I wouldn't care which hole I started as long as I finish. Not a perfect strategy, but helps to pick up some substantial time.

[BillyZ2]

For those of you blaming the early birds for not planning ahead. We book our times 8 days in advance at our club. Here in Phoenix we most assuredly do not know 8 days in advance if there will be frost.

your comment is understood. Although, Maybe there should be the inherent risk of losing your spot due to frost delay when you book early. When you think of it, the frost delay is going to cost somebody the ability to play a round that day. Either those who book in the early tee times or those who book in the later day tee times.

[Hateto3Putt]

If I'm ever subjected to Finland frost rules, I'll book my early time, then have my buddy book the 10 am slot.

 

(hey, I don't want to be "that guy" but you're forcing my hand.)

[QEight]

If I'm ever subjected to Finland frost rules, I'll book my early time, then have my buddy book the 10 am slot.

 

(hey, I don't want to be "that guy" but you're forcing my hand.)

 

As long as it is "me" everything goes. Someone will suffer in any case.

[Shilgy]

For those of you blaming the early birds for not planning ahead. We book our times 8 days in advance at our club. Here in Phoenix we most assuredly do not know 8 days in advance if there will be frost.

your comment is understood. Although, Maybe there should be the inherent risk of losing your spot due to frost delay when you book early. When you think of it, the frost delay is going to cost somebody the ability to play a round that day. Either those who book in the early tee times or those who book in the later day tee times.

No-nit likely that anyone will be out of luck at a private club. Because of the delay some will cancel and there are always some times that were not reserved. So as someone noted earlier in the thread the two hour delay becomes just an hour or less for the later times. Very often by 11 or so we are caught up.

 

another idea. On frost delays ...how about starting all the early groups and the present groups as a shotgun on every hole. Wouldn't that save time and allow everyone to tee off closer to their tee time? I wouldn't care which hole I started as long as I finish. Not a perfect strategy, but helps to pick up some substantial time.

Sounds good but then the maintenance crew has no time to prep the course. Cut pins etc.

[Bonzo17]

Here at the county course in northern Virginia, it’s the same thing - if you risk making a frosty tee time, you lose that spot and you move to the next available slot or you go on the wait list if the tee sheet’s full.

      However, many other courses in Virginia, including just one county over, PRESERVE the earlier tee times and send people out in order as soon as the course opens.

[Newby]

2 hours ago, Bonzo17 said:

Here at the county course in northern Virginia, it’s the same thing - if you risk making a frosty tee time, you lose that spot and you move to the next available slot or you go on the wait list if the tee sheet’s full.

      However, many other courses in Virginia, including just one county over, PRESERVE the earlier tee times and send people out in order as soon as the course opens.

So?

 

Was it really worth resurrecting such an old thread for that exciting nugget of information?

Edited December 5, 2022 by Newby

[Abh159]

Creating a profile simply to resurrect a post that is almost 6 years old and add nothing of value to the conversation. 

 

Classic 🤣

[sui generis]

3 hours ago, Bonzo17 said:

Here at the county course in northern Virginia, it’s the same thing - if you risk making a frosty tee time, you lose that spot and you move to the next available slot or you go on the wait list if the tee sheet’s full.

      However, many other courses in Virginia, including just one county over, PRESERVE the earlier tee times and send people out in order as soon as the course opens.

 

Well done, Bozo17 . . . only 74 more to go and you'll be in BST. 😉

[bladehunter]

I say they cancel the 10-1130 tee times , insert the early guys there and have the rest of the day run normally.  

[bcjim]

I'm all in on the theory you should lose your tee time.  You're taking a foreseeable risk making an 8am tee time. I shouldn't bear that risk for you with my 11am tee time.

 

I don't play mornings much anymore but back some years we did play weekend mornings and we'd occasionally make 2 tee times as a hedge against the insanity.