The M1 440 is Long AND Forgiving, I'm Impressed!!

[woody089]

Went back to the scene of the crime :) Fresh head and plenty of time in the range part of the store, where you can see the ball's fly for about 15 yards before hitting the net. Here are some pictures and a video link to my swing (bad video from the other day, someone not paying attention to the angles).

 

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4v4b23Pl4[/media]

 

Here are my findings from this afternoon at the PGATSS:

 

1. The Kuro Kage 60X TiNi - this was unplayable in the 440 head. The hook tendency was overwhelming. Not a single playable shot produced in the combo.

 

2. The 440 with the Aldila 125 MSI 70 TX, teed up more toward my left foot, produced the longest shots (barely), over the 430 with either shaft.

 

3. The 430 with the Kuro Kage 60X TiNi - guess what? Totally playable. First swing popped to 295, low spin. Was very interesting to feel this shaft "kick" at the right moment on the 430 head, where as the 440 head was impossible.

 

4. The 430 head more predicable, but I think I could get the confidence in the 440 after a bit of playing.

 

I deleted quite a bit of "hooks" from the score sheet from the 440 head while I was trying to dial in all the weights. The 440 head is definitely draw biased, and I do not feel it is a pure neutral weighted head. The 430 head to my swing, is a pure "neutral" head, and as proved by the weaker shaft still producing a playable range of shots.

 

My opinion, this particular 440 head has a draw bias. It took putting both weights into the forward channel, slid towards toe, start to get a fade. All shots on the 440 head were recorded with weights in various positions in the forward channel. After figuring out the more forward position for the ball placement, I was able to put the weights in the center of the forward channel and obtain straight shots, as well as split the weights and get straight shots. However, I would tend to leave one on center, and one towards toe.

 

Feeling: The 440 head feels great, light, snappy. Feels easy to swing fast. I think I would like to try a shaft that is "in the middle" of the KK 60X TiNi, and this Aldila 125MSI 70 TX. I was thinking a Kuro Kage XT 70 TX would be good. Any thoughts?

 

Next, is to get both drivers outside 440-Aldila, and 430 KK, so see how the ball flies, as I don't think the 3000+ spin numbers produced on the monitor are correct. Any thoughts or comments would be great. Thanks, Jim

 

*Note: Everytime I switched Drivers, I put a "7-iron" in there to separate the stats.

 

* Edit: After 2 more trips to range: The degree to "draw bias" depends on the shaft. I tried several shafts would make playing the weights centered certainly achievable. Thus, my original "draw bias" depends on the shaft qualities. thx Jim

[JJPIV]

I think that the 440 just sits closed at address. Try opening it up a little at address and see if that helps. I don’t hover my driver very much, so I notice the hooks come in if I get lazy and just set it down and swing.

[jmasselli22]

What is the club head speed difference between he 440 and 460? Is it a large jump?

[manima1]

Bought an m1 440 based on this thread and... just sold it.

 

Found it to be incredibly unforgiving. It went a long way but it just felt hard to hit. Replaced it with a 2016 m2 which feels automatic in comparison

 

I would definitely say you need to find the center far more than not to like the 440. It's a single digit player's driver, and is VERY low spin. It is forgiving but to the point where you can miss a shade high/low or 1/2 inch off your spot without penal results. It's not M2, Ping G, Epic type forgiving where you can miss it by a lot and still be okay. It is however, easy to move either way, very low spin, and very long when struck properly.

 

Yea that sounds right, I guess I don't see why you would choose to play a club like that- clearly most tour players agree with going with the more forgiving options.

 

 

spin reduction is the answer..that and its easier to square up than the M2 etc........ still finding more fairways with length than any other driver ive owned... and i love the feel when middled.... and i hate the m2 when hit anywhere

 

I still play it as well. All season, the same head.

 

JT- have you hit the G400LS? Any comparison?

[TollBros]

 

I still play it as well. All season, the same head.

 

JT- have you hit the G400LS? Any comparison?

 

There is no Ping that is going to spin anywhere near as low as the M1 440. Ping drivers are massively forgiving, but not what I'd ever call ultra low spin.

[woody089]

Gents - had two more range sessions since post above. I even "tried again" to reset the weights from both in the back channel, to split, to both in the front channel, and for the Aldila Rouge shafts I have, ended up in the same position, which is weights favoring Center & Toe in the forward channel. Here is the good news:

 

See picture below. One of the PGATSS guys let me hit in a studio with Foresight monitor. My Rogue (this time a 110 MSI 70 TX 2.8), was going about 265-285 with high carry and 10 yards of roll. The picture below is with the Diamana +B 70 X. This shaft produced some epic carry for me (288 with rollout to 312 and low spin), and was controllable left or right. He brought 3 extra shafts out to try, but this one happened to very much, exceed my Rogue and the two other shafts he brought out. Too bad this shaft, used, had a $430 price tag on it!!

 

My TM 440 Settings were 9.5 head, turned to lowest (7.5), and weights in forward channel centered. If someone can offer some shaft comparisons to the Diamana +B 70X that would be great. I'm excited to see this much change due to a shaft, and would like to continue to see what other options there are.

 

My only complaint so far with the head after seeing the effects of shafts on direction, is that I still seem to hit this very high. Jim

[Granthamjc]

I love the size and shape of my 9.5 M1 440, but I just cant hit it as consistently as I can my 2016 M1 460 10.5 which is very strange. The ball wear mark on my M1 460 face is a very tight little over ball sized mark in the center up on the face and on the 440 I am all over the place. I have tried different shafts etc and just cant seem to fix it so I am going to sell the 440 and stick with my 460.

[Booker]

Gents - had two more range sessions since post above. I even "tried again" to reset the weights from both in the back channel, to split, to both in the front channel, and for the Aldila Rouge shafts I have, ended up in the same position, which is weights favoring Center & Toe in the forward channel. Here is the good news:

 

See picture below. One of the PGATSS guys let me hit in a studio with Foresight monitor. My Rogue (this time a 110 MSI 70 TX 2.8), was going about 265-285 with high carry and 10 yards of roll. The picture below is with the Diamana +B 70 X. This shaft produced some epic carry for me (288 with rollout to 312 and low spin), and was controllable left or right. He brought 3 extra shafts out to try, but this one happened to very much, exceed my Rogue and the two other shafts he brought out. Too bad this shaft, used, had a $430 price tag on it!!

 

My TM 440 Settings were 9.5 head, turned to lowest (7.5), and weights in forward channel centered. If someone can offer some shaft comparisons to the Diamana +B 70X that would be great. I'm excited to see this much change due to a shaft, and would like to continue to see what other options there are.

 

My only complaint so far with the head after seeing the effects of shafts on direction, is that I still seem to hit this very high. Jim

 

Are you referring to the diamana bf series ion finish shaft j.t. is using or the blue diamana b series shaft?

[woody089]

Sir - there was a + sign in front of the B. It was marked as "Diamana +B 70X" it is s blue colored shaft. I'll have to go back and get a picture because I gained huge carry and a reasonable 20 yards of rollout. Jim

 

Edit: I went back and looked at that shaft. I was told it is the Japanese version Diamana B 70 X.

[TollBros]

I love the size and shape of my 9.5 M1 440, but I just cant hit it as consistently as I can my 2016 M1 460 10.5 which is very strange. The ball wear mark on my M1 460 face is a very tight little over ball sized mark in the center up on the face and on the 440 I am all over the place. I have tried different shafts etc and just cant seem to fix it so I am going to sell the 440 and stick with my 460.

 

Are you sure both heads are the same weight? Sounds like one might be lighter than the other, causing an inconsistent strike pattern.

[Granthamjc]

I hadn't thought about that, I will get them weighed

[TollBros]

I hadn't thought about that, I will get them weighed

 

It makes all the difference in the world for some players.

[TollBros]

Sir - there was a + sign in front of the B. It was marked as "Diamana +B 70X" it is s blue colored shaft. I'll have to go back and get a picture because I gained huge carry and a reasonable 20 yards of rollout. Jim

 

Edit: I went back and looked at that shaft. I was told it is the Japanese version Diamana B 70 X.

 

I wish I still had some 70X B for you in X. We sold them all out and all I've got is stiff left at clearance prices.

[jbole267]

Loved my 440 this year, with the right shaft pairing this is a crazy combo. Would like to try it with a tensei CK pro white though to see how it pairs.

[woody089]

Sir - there was a + sign in front of the B. It was marked as "Diamana +B 70X" it is s blue colored shaft. I'll have to go back and get a picture because I gained huge carry and a reasonable 20 yards of rollout. Jim

 

Edit: I went back and looked at that shaft. I was told it is the Japanese version Diamana B 70 X.

 

I wish I still had some 70X B for you in X. We sold them all out and all I've got is stiff left at clearance prices.

 

Thanks for the thought. I blitzkrieg'd Ebay and found several TM Tip equipped shafts that sellers allow "returns". Thus, I have a Diamana B 70X, Kuro Kage XT 70 TX, and Fujikora Pro 73 X Tour Spec, all coming in a week.

[jasman29]

I tried and tried to make the 460 work for me. When I hit it, man did it go a long way and I tried with 2 different shafts that, for me, fit me pretty well and I could not get it to be a consistent driver for me. I made the change to the 440 being that I was a Titleist guy for so many years playing the D3 head which is smaller. It has been night and day. I love the 440 and it has been one of the most consistent drivers for me this year, it is long and very straight and playable. I don't find it hard to hit at all, in fact it looks so much better at address than the 460 IMHO. I play the weight fairly standard with the back weight only a few ticks away from the far back setting with a UST Elements Chrome Tour shaft. This will be in the bag for a while.

[woody089]

... much more favorable impression after hitting outside. Ball flight nice and feel very snappy on real balls. Here is what I think, even with the orange medium height tee in the PGATSS matt, it’s still too high for how I pass the driver through the ball. My swing come through very low to the turf. Once outside, with a real tee, was very easy to recognize I needed a lower tee. Maybe only 25% of the ball above the crown for good strike. Are you guys also teeing Low? I think this was screwing up my launch And Spin numbers in the store. Jim

 

Edit: I wanted to add an update. I returned to the PGATSS with my Ebay'd Diamana B70X ($80), and was able to compare it directly to the B70X that was marked ($430), that hit the picture above at 288 carry/312 total in the custom fitting bay. The used shaft I bought was 0.5" shorter than the store's version. On average produced about the same numbers, with one or two shots from the longer shaft, being longer.

 

I hit both shafts in my 430 and 440 heads, and the fitter (who has a better swing than me), hit both shafts, in both heads same as me, and we both produced about the same results (mostly in the 260-270 carry, 10'sh yards roll out). He said my shaft is the exact same one he had, but only shorter. His suggestion was to regrip my shaft and add the 1/2" to it.

 

The regular hitting bay monitor was easily 15-20 yards shorter on carry than the custom fitting bay monitor, both agreed. Because I do not get access to the better equipment in the custom fitting bay often, it was nice to see his swing, and impressions, along with my own, on the same shafts/heads, in the regular hitting bay. He hits in the custom bay all the time, obviously, as the fitter.

[Tre4ISU]

So I'm going to buy one of these. I'm looking for shaft recs. I was fit for a 2017 m1 460 with a hzrdus yellow 63 6.0. I'm thinking about going to a 9.5 with a black just to have both shaft options available. I'm a high ball hitter in the 115 SS range and I've never been fit to a XS shaft. I'm also thinking of staying with yellow in a XS just to toy with that. ANy help is appreciated here.

[BearQ]

So I'm going to buy one of these. I'm looking for shaft recs. I was fit for a 2017 m1 460 with a hzrdus yellow 63 6.0. I'm thinking about going to a 9.5 with a black just to have both shaft options available. I'm a high ball hitter in the 115 SS range and I've never been fit to a XS shaft. I'm also thinking of staying with yellow in a XS just to toy with that. ANy help is appreciated here.

 

Dunno if yellow would be a great shaft if you're a high ball hitter. Plenty of other options out there though

[TollBros]

So I'm going to buy one of these. I'm looking for shaft recs. I was fit for a 2017 m1 460 with a hzrdus yellow 63 6.0. I'm thinking about going to a 9.5 with a black just to have both shaft options available. I'm a high ball hitter in the 115 SS range and I've never been fit to a XS shaft. I'm also thinking of staying with yellow in a XS just to toy with that. ANy help is appreciated here.

 

These should help you with some comparisons, including hzrdus yellow which tends to be a bit high launch and spin.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1488288-big-bad-low-spin-shaft-review-13-shafts-7-players-and-a-trackman/page__pid__16389152__st__450#entry16389152

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1534088-official-aldila-black-green-copper-mamba-trackman-review-thread-comparison-to-tensei-pro-product/page__pid__16394388__st__90#entry16394388

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1559542-aldila-synergythe-low-spin-king-trackman-data-inside/page__pid__16390276#entry16390276

[jeffc]

So would a 12 cap who hits a driver about 250-260 benefit from the 440? Currently playing the 17 M1 460 but find the head a little large for m liking.

[Kale_m]

So would a 12 cap who hits a driver about 250-260 benefit from the 440? Currently playing the 17 M1 460 but find the head a little large for m liking.

 

The 460 is miles more forgiving then the 440.

 

440 is just to low spin I found. If you are hitting it on the screws every time then yah it is good. But if you are not then it is punishing. Balls just fall out of the sky on off center hits

[bladehunter]

Off topic. But anyone know why the 440 sounds so much better ( different ) than the m1/m2 460. I hit the 17 m2 again last week and could not believe how terrible it sounds. I couldn't play that day to day without ear plugs . Worse than ping G30 in my opinion.

[Tre4ISU]

So I'm going to buy one of these. I'm looking for shaft recs. I was fit for a 2017 m1 460 with a hzrdus yellow 63 6.0. I'm thinking about going to a 9.5 with a black just to have both shaft options available. I'm a high ball hitter in the 115 SS range and I've never been fit to a XS shaft. I'm also thinking of staying with yellow in a XS just to toy with that. ANy help is appreciated here.

 

These should help you with some comparisons, including hzrdus yellow which tends to be a bit high launch and spin.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry16389152

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry16394388

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...6#entry16390276

 

Looks like i need to find myself a Pro Orange.

[Kale_m]

Off topic. But anyone know why the 440 sounds so much better ( different ) than the m1/m2 460. I hit the 17 m2 again last week and could not believe how terrible it sounds. I couldn't play that day to day without ear plugs . Worse than ping G30 in my opinion.

 

The M2 does sound different then the M1. To me it is not a bad sound. And there is no way on earth you can compare it to the g30. I played the g30 for 2 years. The only place it was annoying was in a sheltered range (play in Canada, have to hit it in a sheltered range for 6 months of the year so I know what I am talking about)

 

T

 

[woody089]

.... put my 440 9.5 on Ebay, sold it, and bought a 440 8.5 in the same day. Looking forward to this head and my shaft options: Diamana B70 X, Fujikora Pro tour Spec 73 X, Kuro Kage XT 70 TX, and HZRDUS 6.5 X Yellow. .... in about a week I'll be able to start honing down the selection. Jim

[4rheel]

Off topic. But anyone know why the 440 sounds so much better ( different ) than the m1/m2 460. I hit the 17 m2 again last week and could not believe how terrible it sounds. I couldn't play that day to day without ear plugs . Worse than ping G30 in my opinion.

 

I wondered the same thing. I have moved over to the M1 460 Tour Issue that is close. I also have a retail M2 v2 (K serial) and it's nowhere as pleasing as the 440. But boy, I sure can get some bombs with the M2. Just can't get over the sound.

[jdawgttu]

.... put my 440 9.5 on Ebay, sold it, and bought a 440 8.5 in the same day. Looking forward to this head and my shaft options: Diamana B70 X, Fujikora Pro tour Spec 73 X, Kuro Kage XT 70 TX, and HZRDUS 6.5 X Yellow. .... in about a week I'll be able to start honing down the selection. Jim

 

Please post your findings!

[jacobEDGE]

Just couldn't fight the slice with my 440. Finally ended up selling it and going back to gaming my SLDR 430. Thing is long and as straight as an arrow.

[jeffc]

So would a 12 cap who hits a driver about 250-260 benefit from the 440? Currently playing the 17 M1 460 but find the head a little large for m liking.

 

The 460 is miles more forgiving then the 440.

 

440 is just to low spin I found. If you are hitting it on the screws every time then yah it is good. But if you are not then it is punishing. Balls just fall out of the sky on off center hits

 

well that settles that then :-). Experiment over before it even started.