What happened with Rocco and PXG?

[Mitchell]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

[bmaas03]

Why would PXG have to be 3X better for 3X the price? For 10 yards more of distance (3%) than the longest driver in golf, most people would pay a lot more than 3% if it was certain they could gain yards.

 

While I never see myself buying the PXGs (because I hit them and didn't like them), I have to agree with this.

Does anyone look at retail price points and say to themselves "the AP2 is 10% more expensive than the z765, so I expect to get 10% better performance if I buy them"? I suppose there's always someone out there...but I can't believe that the majority of people shop for golf clubs with this as their criteria.

[Holy Moses]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

[KYMAR]

Must be the clubs

[North Texas]

Goodness- this will be the last post I make on this subject.

 

My data, and the data my fitters at both CoolClubs and validated by CLubFix, show appreciable performance improvements from the majority of their clients who try them. Not everyone jumps in and buys them as recommended.

 

Thanks.

 

PS: For all involved, I'm in Southern Cal and always looking for a weekend game. Look me up if you make it to the area!

 

Post the numbers! side by side. You're the one insisting on data and havent provided a single piece.

 

And sure, I'll play 18 with you next time I'm on the west coast. I'll bring the vodka and you, of course, can bring the kool-aid

 

Irons in yellow- top one was my Legacy black 6 iron, the rest go by name...

 

 

 

PXG 0311T 6i: 28* 37.625"

RSI TP 6i: 30* 37.25"

TMB 6i: 29* 37.5"

Apex Pro 6i: 30* 37.5"

 

Not enough people paying attention to this info.

[Mitchell]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

Was speaking to differences in personality having met both Rocco and Parsons, not performance of the equipment or player using it. Was simply responding with a possible opinion on what may have led to parting of ways per original question posed in topic. Regarding Ryan Moore,? yep- still with PXG and had a nice season.?

[Holy Moses]

If launch numbers are the same and you still get the right height and spin on your club, I don't care how low the loft is. It means you can use a shorter shaft with lower loft to get the same distance, spin, and height. That's more control on your shots. Is that a standard PXG 6-iron length? It has a longer shaft than a TaylorMade iron? I didn't think that was possible!

[Holy Moses]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

Was speaking to differences in personality having met both Rocco and Parsons, not performance of the equipment or player using it. Was simply responding with a possible opinion on what may have led to parting of ways per original question posed in topic. Regarding Ryan Moore,? yep- still with PXG and had a nice season.?

 

I was talking about Ryan's personality too. He is a different cat. Are there many more unique on the PGA Tour than Moore?

[QMany]

If launch numbers are the same and you still get the right height and spin on your club, I don't care how low the loft it.

 

I don't know what "appreciable performance improvements" he's specifically referring to. But if he's basing his decision off of ball speeds (+1.5-4 MPH), launch angle (-1.1-2.1*), spin (-309-694 RPM), max height (-3-12.3 feet), landing angle (-2-4.3*), or distance (+5.3-12 yards), they would all be directly affected by club loft (-1-2*). He's basically comparing a 5.5 iron to 6 irons and getting the results you'd expect.

[Holy Moses]

If launch numbers are the same and you still get the right height and spin on your club, I don't care how low the loft it.

 

I don't know what "appreciable performance improvements" he's specifically referring to. But if he's basing his decision off of ball speeds (+1.5-4 MPH), launch angle (-1.1-2.1*), spin (-309-694 RPM), max height (-3-12.3 feet), landing angle (-2-4.3*), or distance (+5.3-12 yards), they would all be directly affected by club loft (-1-2*).

 

Loft...meh. It's all those numbers that are actually important including the length of the shaft and dispersion. If those numbers are good, I don't care what loft the club has. That's the last factor I would consider.

[QMany]

If launch numbers are the same and you still get the right height and spin on your club, I don't care how low the loft it.

 

I don't know what "appreciable performance improvements" he's specifically referring to. But if he's basing his decision off of ball speeds (+1.5-4 MPH), launch angle (-1.1-2.1*), spin (-309-694 RPM), max height (-3-12.3 feet), landing angle (-2-4.3*), or distance (+5.3-12 yards), they would all be directly affected by club loft (-1-2*).

 

Loft...meh. It's all those numbers that are actually important including the length of the shaft and dispersion. If those numbers are good, I don't care what loft the club has. That's the last factor I would consider.

 

Dispersion would vital, and from the limited information we have, it seems his dispersion with the PXG 0311T was worse than the Apex Pro and TMB combined.

[Holy Moses]

If launch numbers are the same and you still get the right height and spin on your club, I don't care how low the loft it.

 

I don't know what "appreciable performance improvements" he's specifically referring to. But if he's basing his decision off of ball speeds (+1.5-4 MPH), launch angle (-1.1-2.1*), spin (-309-694 RPM), max height (-3-12.3 feet), landing angle (-2-4.3*), or distance (+5.3-12 yards), they would all be directly affected by club loft (-1-2*).

 

Loft...meh. It's all those numbers that are actually important including the length of the shaft and dispersion. If those numbers are good, I don't care what loft the club has. That's the last factor I would consider.

 

Dispersion would vital, and from the limited information we have, it seems his dispersion with the PXG 0311T was worse than the Apex Pro and TMB combined.

 

But the Tour model isn't as forgiving as the plain old $3,000 model :)

[bladehunter]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

 

Moore makes his dough with the putter. Doesn't matter what irons he plays.

[Holy Moses]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

 

Moore makes his dough with the putter. Doesn't matter what irons he plays.

 

I do remember at the Tour Championship that his Odyssey was the only club working in his bag

[BrianMcG]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

Exactly. I can hear Parsons yelling during a commercial or photo shoot " Dammit Rocco quit smiling. Were supposed to be mean!!!"

[Mitchell]

Parsons has been somewhat assertive in making sure players follow his particular marketing idea of brand image. Rocco has always tended to march to his own unique beat, so I am not shocked that a parting of ways took place.

 

So has Ryan Moore, but Ryan Moore had a great year playing PXG. The best of his professional career.

Was speaking to differences in personality having met both Rocco and Parsons, not performance of the equipment or player using it. Was simply responding with a possible opinion on what may have led to parting of ways per original question posed in topic. Regarding Ryan Moore,? yep- still with PXG and had a nice season.?

 

I was talking about Ryan's personality too. He is a different cat. Are there many more unique on the PGA Tour than Moore?

Ryan is very good at playing up the hipster angle and not nearly as quick to offer opinions (whether asked for or not) as Rocco,whom thread is about.

[whr]

Snake oil

[notsohard]

Guys, I'm going to give the obligatory mod post about sticking on topic. No bikes here. Please go to bikewrx.com for that.

 

Can we please just go back to primarily criticizing Rocco or at least PXG?

 

Only a small tangent I assure you. I don't like anything hobby wise more than golf. And it was connected. Just an example of parsons ever surfacing need to show us how smart and well off he is. You know like flying over and killing some elephants instead of using his vast wealth to simply build the village a fence around their crops. ( issue was elephants destroying crops he says ).

 

Back on topic. Would anyone here who's Twitter literate care to tweet towards Rocco directly. ? He might just answer even if vague. Worth a shot

 

Especially if he's drunk.

[MadGolfer76]

I always kind of thought there was some quiet irony in buying a set of irons that expensive...with so many screws.

[ExTrumpet]

So, PXG irons are a lot like old Land Rover Defenders? Quirky with a devoted following, and lots of external screws?

 

Sure they are great off-roaders, but probably no better than a Jeep Wrangler outfitted for the specific terrain it's driving on. And certainly not so great as to make an average driver look like an expert!

[The Mad Bomber]

Why would PXG have to be 3X better for 3X the price? For 10 yards more of distance (3%) than the longest driver in golf, most people would pay a lot more than 3% if it was certain they could gain yards.

 

While I never see myself buying the PXGs (because I hit them and didn't like them), I have to agree with this.

Does anyone look at retail price points and say to themselves "the AP2 is 10% more expensive than the z765, so I expect to get 10% better performance if I buy them"? I suppose there's always someone out there...but I can't believe that the majority of people shop for golf clubs with this as their criteria.

 

Think about it and be reasonable. We live in the real world.

 

If we're splitting hairs, sure. Some brands are a little more here and there. That's not what I'm talking about. We'll pay a little more for preference. It's been that way since the dawn of time. If a top end Corvette and a top end Shelby were sitting side by side and one cost $90K and the other cost $95K, who cares. It is what it is and that's pretty normal - you'll just pick the one you like. But if one was $95K and and one was $200K, wouldn't you stop and wonder what the hell? Of course you would. That's basically what we're talking about here. Great, but comparable, products where one product demands exorbitant amounts of money without offering an equal, tangible uptick in performance. And if PXG did cost 10% more, we'd never be having this conversation. But if they're going to charge that much more, the increase in price has to be accompanied by a relatively equal increase in performance to justify that cost. If they don't, you've been suckered :haha:

[Sun Devil]

I admire Rocco. If there was something between Rocco and PXG .... it must have been a personal issue.

 

As for Parsons. Well ... his websites SUCK. I have one. I fell for the snake oil. But .... his Harley and Ducati dealerships in N. Scottsdale are first class.

 

As for the PXG irons. I don't have issues with them. If people want to pay to play them .... that's their decision. Personally .... I think the clubs look unique.

 

So typical of people to want to be critical of anyone with expensive items. PXG irons are like Ferraris in the car world. People like to discuss (or hate) items that are exclusive due to price. You don't see people wasting their time to complain about Toyota Camrys. People go where the money is. Ask any attorney. :)

[bmaas03]

Why would PXG have to be 3X better for 3X the price? For 10 yards more of distance (3%) than the longest driver in golf, most people would pay a lot more than 3% if it was certain they could gain yards.

 

While I never see myself buying the PXGs (because I hit them and didn't like them), I have to agree with this.

Does anyone look at retail price points and say to themselves "the AP2 is 10% more expensive than the z765, so I expect to get 10% better performance if I buy them"? I suppose there's always someone out there...but I can't believe that the majority of people shop for golf clubs with this as their criteria.

 

Think about it and be reasonable. We live in the real world.

 

If we're splitting hairs, sure. Some brands are a little more here and there. That's not what I'm talking about. We'll pay a little more for preference. It's been that way since the dawn of time. If a top end Corvette and a top end Shelby were sitting side by side and one cost $90K and the other cost $95K, who cares. It is what it is and that's pretty normal - you'll just pick the one you like. But if one was $95K and and one was $200K, wouldn't you stop and wonder what the hell? Of course you would. That's basically what we're talking about here. Great, but comparable, products where one product demands exorbitant amounts of money without offering an equal, tangible uptick in performance. And if PXG did cost 10% more, we'd never be having this conversation. But if they're going to charge that much more, the increase in price has to be accompanied by a relatively equal increase in performance to justify that cost. If they don't, you've been suckered :haha:

 

Do you have a bag full of Pinemeadows from Walmart? Or are you paying double for preference in a name brand and thus double the performance? I'm obviously Playing devil's advocate at this point, but using your argument, does a Lamborghini actually perform twice as well as your top end Corvette at twice the price, or are all exotic car buyers just suckers as well? Or a Lexus vs a Mazda. Or Ralph Lauren vs London Fog...you get my point.

My point is, I don't think PXG ever made the claim that their equipment performs "x times" better than any others. They just said it's the best. Just like virtually every company on the planet that advertises a product to sell. The price is what the market is willing to pay for it (for now, at least) but calling people suckers because of your "3x performance criteria" seems off the mark.

[The Mad Bomber]

Why would PXG have to be 3X better for 3X the price? For 10 yards more of distance (3%) than the longest driver in golf, most people would pay a lot more than 3% if it was certain they could gain yards.

 

While I never see myself buying the PXGs (because I hit them and didn't like them), I have to agree with this.

Does anyone look at retail price points and say to themselves "the AP2 is 10% more expensive than the z765, so I expect to get 10% better performance if I buy them"? I suppose there's always someone out there...but I can't believe that the majority of people shop for golf clubs with this as their criteria.

 

Think about it and be reasonable. We live in the real world.

 

If we're splitting hairs, sure. Some brands are a little more here and there. That's not what I'm talking about. We'll pay a little more for preference. It's been that way since the dawn of time. If a top end Corvette and a top end Shelby were sitting side by side and one cost $90K and the other cost $95K, who cares. It is what it is and that's pretty normal - you'll just pick the one you like. But if one was $95K and and one was $200K, wouldn't you stop and wonder what the hell? Of course you would. That's basically what we're talking about here. Great, but comparable, products where one product demands exorbitant amounts of money without offering an equal, tangible uptick in performance. And if PXG did cost 10% more, we'd never be having this conversation. But if they're going to charge that much more, the increase in price has to be accompanied by a relatively equal increase in performance to justify that cost. If they don't, you've been suckered :haha:

 

Do you have a bag full of Pinemeadows from Walmart? Or are you paying double for preference in a name brand and thus double the performance? I'm obviously Playing devil's advocate at this point, but using your argument, does a Lamborghini actually perform twice as well as your top end Corvette at twice the price, or are all exotic car buyers just suckers as well? Or a Lexus vs a Mazda. Or Ralph Lauren vs London Fog...you get my point.

My point is, I don't think PXG ever made the claim that their equipment performs "x times" better than any others. They just said it's the best. Just like virtually every company on the planet that advertises a product to sell. The price is what the market is willing to pay for it (for now, at least) but calling people suckers because of your "3x performance criteria" seems off the mark.

 

I get your point bud, and I do feel it's valid but that's not the basis of my criteria. It was an exaggeration of what I see as snake oil sales in PXG. The car analogy only goes so far in that there is no pursuit of results involved with a car unless you're a race driver. In golf, we strive to shoot the lowest score possible and the results are very tangible. What are you trying to achieve with a Lambo? Nothing, really. Nobody here is contemplating a luxury sports car so they can beat their buddy Johnny to work next week. My original point is that the value, while completely subjective, is arrogantly implied by the company. Bob Parsons makes no apologies about beating the drum of being the best. Great...good for you Bob. Hate to break it to you, but everybody is the best according to them. He unapologetically backs it up with a ridiculous price point that is more a marketing gimmick, rather than a reflection of his products superiority. And all that is FINE. I'm a free market capitalist and a business owner. So good for Bob. But I call BS on his marketing because it IS bs. I'm not falling for it. And you will NEVER convince me that, while some people will genuinely get their best results with PXG irons, there isn't a good chunk of the 'status symbol" crowd buying these. Like the 18 'cap at my club bagging the players version of these and talking about how amazing the dispersion is and how they're so easy to flight down as he fat/slices his way to carding a 94. Congrats buddy, Bob Parsons just convinced you to give him $6000 so you could still absolutely suck. How is that 18 cap not a sucker??? If he walked up and just said "Meh..I just like them" - he'd get no flack from me. Fair enough. But don't try and sell me on that Kool-aid GARBAGE.

 

I personally can't stand that kind of marketing and have a problem with the guys that insist they (PXG) are so much better that "there's no comparison". Buddy, no they're not and you don't have a hope in hell of proving it. I'm okay with idea that voicing my opinion on their marketing strategy on a public forum will open me to scrutiny, but I stand behind my opinion.

[bmaas03]

I stand behind my opinion.

 

Absolutely agree...we all should. Cheers.

[Forged4ever]

I stand behind my opinion.

 

Absolutely agree...we all should. Cheers.

Wait, wait, waaaaait......

 

He can't stand behind his opinion and you SureTF can't agree with that??

 

This has to get drug out, to say another 3-4 posts each, with each one getting edgier till you both are dragging each other by the hair through the virtual gutter(that's the benefit of me being bald- no hair to grab?) and then a mod will step in, clean up the thread, and lock it down.

 

Opinions aren't made to be agreed upon, respected or accepted, especially if ya don't share the same one!!!

 

The greatest is when the tone of certainty far exceeds the actual knowledge present, which happens a lot around here, lmao

 

I just happen to be tone deaf??

 

Nicely Played Gents?

 

Stay well & Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳

RP

[The Mad Bomber]

I stand behind my opinion.

 

Absolutely agree...we all should. Cheers.

Wait, wait, waaaaait......

 

He can't stand behind his opinion and you SureTF can't agree with that

 

This has to get drug out, to say another 3-4 posts each, with each one getting edgier till you both are dragging each other by the hair through the virtual gutter(that's the benefit of me being bald- no hair to grab) and then a mod will step in, clean up the thread, and lock it down.

 

Opinions aren't made to be agreed upon, respected or accepted, especially if ya don't share the same one!!!

 

The greatest is when the tone of certainty far exceeds the actual knowledge present, which happens a lot around here, lmao

 

I just happen to be tone deaf

 

Nicely Played Gents

 

Stay well & Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳

RP

 

You know he's got a point. K, here goes nothing...

 

PXG are the worst clubs ever made, we'd all play just as well with WalMart clubs, ProV1's are just rebranded Pinnacle distance balls, the Epic Sub zero is the worst driver to be released since whatever garbage PXG last came out with and what do I do if my M1 with a tipped Mitsu 73 TX whiteboard just spins and hits moon balls?

[BForrester]

I don't get this. As I understand it, once you've experienced the super advanced technology, superior design, and magic fairy dust that makes every PXG club send the ball exactly where you want it to go, it's impossible to play anything else. No?

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone?

 

Every time we take shots at PXG, the faithful show up in their over priced armour and come to their defence. I'd like to think that they're running out of those rehearsed defences. Yep, good clubs, but they are NOT better and are NOT worth more than the other big OEM's. I support their right to spent their money any way they choose. I just happen to think they've been suckered.

 

Weak. "You think"; but the data proves PXG performance (trajectory/dispersion/consistency/distance). Most of the PXG hating comes from the folks who haven't put them through proper fitting from a top brand-agnostic fitter with every shaft option and a whole bunch of know-how. I actually have. Even had the lofts matched in the irons I was testing against them.

 

You'll also notice in my sig I play a variety of stuff (only 4 PXG clubs- slightly modified for me). The best of every brand in relation to me.

 

The irons are the best performers by far. Be that as it may, I don't play a PW of theirs or any of their wedges yet, because they have improvements to make.

 

Back up your claim with data and you'll gain a little more street cred.

Great that you could prove the mad bombers point.

 

Location: So Cal

Also, data is useless until it's processed into information

[lc1342]

I just wanted to get on here to read about Rocco. This went way off topic.

[Outlier]

Did PXG drop him like a bad habit already?

 

Never a Rocco fan....just don't like the "cut of his jib". Also seems to jump off with the mouth before thinking,and pimps too many different brands too soon.I remember barefoot swinging with Jimmy Ballard (the only real genius); then the next week it was the northern sage on steroids- Rick Smith. And always with the pants too high!