Not posting scores???

[SurfDuffer]

Are there any valid reasons for not posting scores? This has always been my biggest beef with the handicap system. To me, either post everything or don't post anything. I used to play in a money game and there was a guy I'd be giving strokes to who never shot over 80 in a competitive round when I played with him yet the lowest score on his official handicap history was an 84. Another guy I know of who plays a lot of competitive golf you can google him and see news paper stories or go to the association website and see his tournament scores yet those scores don't reflect in his handicap scoring history for the time period.

 

Not so much accusing anybody of anything but asking are their any valid reasons for these in-season scores not to be posted?

[LeoLeo99]

Maybe they just forgot.

 

Forgetfulness is a symptom of sandbagitis.

[Hawkeye77]

Unfortunately, play a fair number of rounds by myself over the course of a season. So, while I guess it's valid because now I can't, my score record is no longer an accurate log of my performance. If anything, my index is probably a shade higher - more messing around when playing with usual suspects (still by the rules, just more focused out by myself). In the end it doesn't mean much because I don't enter any competitions.

 

Maybe not what you were getting at, but that has made a change for me.

 

If the question is whether I'm religious about turning in cards, I do my best, sometimes others volunteer to turn them in.

[North Butte]

The most common exception (besides solo rounds) is any round not played by the Rules of Golf. Which is a conundrum when you play regularly in a group which plays two off the first tee or rolls 'em in the fairway. You shoud not post such rounds but if you don't post then the group won't let you play.

[mark m]

SD: you know this player in question, we do not. My advice would be to not gamble with him. Or if you do, you must negotiate his handicap down to a reasonable number.

 

Here is some info from the USGA Handicap System Manual on failure to post scores (section 8-3b.):

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14385

 

Penalty Scores for Failure to Post

 

If a player fails to post an acceptable score as soon as practical after completion of the round, the Handicap Committee has three options:

 

1) Post the actual score made by the player;

 

2) Post a penalty scoreequal to the lowest/highest Handicap Differential in the player's scoring record;

 

3) Post the actual score and a penalty score

 

The Handicap Committee is not required to notify the player prior to posting a penalty score.

 

There are many players who do not post all of their acceptable scores. For some, it might not mean much of a difference. For others, like the "baggers" - who obviously do not like to post the low scores/differentials - it can make a significant difference. Just avoid having a net game with them.

[masamitsu]

I play quite a few 10 hole "rounds" (#10 comes back to the clubhouse) during the season in the late afternoons. I normally hit multiple balls, hit a number of chips and putts. The course isn't usually crowded at this time of the day so this is basically my practice. I don't record these rounds.

[North Butte]

I play quite a few 10 hole "rounds" (#10 comes back to the clubhouse) during the season in the late afternoons. I normally hit multiple balls, hit a number of chips and putts. The course isn't usually crowded at this time of the day so this is basically my practice. I don't record these rounds.

 

If you're doing that by yourself you couldn't post them even if you wanted to.

 

Aside from playing in groups who routinely agree to cheat, most of my gray area rounds went away when USGA finally came (partially) to their senses and eliminated the solo rounds from the system. I'd have lots of days like masamitsu describes as well as days when I basically played golf but did hit a couple of second balls. It was also a troubling process to just deem this one good enough (with a few "count par plus your bogey strokes" holes thrown in) vs. this other one not acceptable. They were all completely B.S. in reality but the old rules of the handicap system meant you sometimes needed a lawyer to know which B.S. went in the system and which didn't.

 

For instance when playing solo I routinely play one ball down, putt it out and basically score off that ball by the Rules while at the same time hitting a second shot a dozen times a round, stopping to practice my chipping and putting while waiting for the hole ahead to clear and (shocking!) not pulling the flagstick. I generally didn't post those round, figuring if nothing else the flagstick thing DQ'd them anyway. But I'll be darned if a couple times over the years some busybody on the handicap committee didn't crawl up my backside wanting to know why I was on the tee sheet but not posting scores. What a silly mess.

[SurfDuffer]

Perhaps the one guy who plays a lot of elite am events doesn't care about the handicap system because he is a plus and the tournament scores he's posted in mid ams and other big events would likely put him in +3 or +4 territory. At that point if he's only playing scratch events with other elite ams I suppose it might not matter. Just seems odd to me that he'd have some scores posted but not scores from elite events.

 

The other guy who comes to mind does play club events and money games. He's the only 12 handicap I've played with who has broken 80 in a competitive round playing with me. He did it more than once and the scores magically never appeared in his scoring history. Haven't played with him in a couple seasons now. Just always pissed me off to be giving this guy 5 or 6 shots. I'd have to have a career day to beat him with the strokes.

 

On the flip side I played against a guy last season who's game clearly did not match up to his 3 handicap. He shot an 87 on his home course that day and his score was magically never posted either..... Guess he wanted to keep that 3 safe.

[Sawgrass]

Are there any valid reasons for not posting scores? This has always been my biggest beef with the handicap system. To me, either post everything or don't post anything. I used to play in a money game and there was a guy I'd be giving strokes to who never shot over 80 in a competitive round when I played with him yet the lowest score on his official handicap history was an 84. Another guy I know of who plays a lot of competitive golf you can google him and see news paper stories or go to the association website and see his tournament scores yet those scores don't reflect in his handicap scoring history for the time period.

 

Not so much accusing anybody of anything but asking are their any valid reasons for these in-season scores not to be posted?

 

Yes. Read Handicap Manual Section 5-1:

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14379

[SurfDuffer]

Are there any valid reasons for not posting scores? This has always been my biggest beef with the handicap system. To me, either post everything or don't post anything. I used to play in a money game and there was a guy I'd be giving strokes to who never shot over 80 in a competitive round when I played with him yet the lowest score on his official handicap history was an 84. Another guy I know of who plays a lot of competitive golf you can google him and see news paper stories or go to the association website and see his tournament scores yet those scores don't reflect in his handicap scoring history for the time period.

 

Not so much accusing anybody of anything but asking are their any valid reasons for these in-season scores not to be posted?

 

Yes. Read Handicap Manual Section 5-1:

 

http://www.usga.org/...tml#!rule-14379

 

Clearly by that all of these scores by both players would have to be posted.

[LeoLeo99]

Are there any valid reasons for not posting scores? This has always been my biggest beef with the handicap system. To me, either post everything or don't post anything. I used to play in a money game and there was a guy I'd be giving strokes to who never shot over 80 in a competitive round when I played with him yet the lowest score on his official handicap history was an 84. Another guy I know of who plays a lot of competitive golf you can google him and see news paper stories or go to the association website and see his tournament scores yet those scores don't reflect in his handicap scoring history for the time period.

 

Not so much accusing anybody of anything but asking are their any valid reasons for these in-season scores not to be posted?

 

Yes. Read Handicap Manual Section 5-1:

 

http://www.usga.org/...tml#!rule-14379

 

But one would have to assume that a score published in the newspaper to be legitimate enough to post.

[Sawgrass]

Leo, Surf, I in no way wished to imply that Surf's associates should not post. I wanted to give Surf specifics of when someone's excuse for not posting might be valid since he directly asked for that.

 

As to newspaper's scores, I'd say Leo is most likely right as long as the tournament being reported on was played under USGA Rules, but it should be noted that the tournament score might well be higher than an appropriate posting score since ESC has to be applied to your actual tournament score before posting.

[taporsnap17]

Play for the gross!!!! Take it both ways whether you're in the plus or minus.

 

I'm a 17 and wouldn't have any qualms playing a single straight up. I wouldn't be playing for high stakes (if anything I usually just play for a drink at the bar after). Look at it as a challenge.

 

My friend who's a 28 plays be straight up too. He's caught me a few times when I've flown right off the rails and he's had a good day. It happens.

 

Maybe it's my newbie-ness, but I still don't see much of a point in getting into a competition of "who is playing better than usual"

[Sawgrass]

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's my newbie-ness, but I still don't see much of a point in getting into a competition of "who is playing better than usual"

 

I think there is some newbie-ness to your perspective. The "point" in getting into a handicap competition is because you don't know who will win. Call it a "challenge" all you like, but a 17 playing a 7 is pretty much a foregone conclusion if it's straight up. Not much of a competition at all, and certainly not one in which both players must do their best to have a chance.

[juststeve]

Unless you play by the rules and post all of your scores your handicap is b.s.

 

Steve

[DavePelz4]

I play quite a few 10 hole "rounds" (#10 comes back to the clubhouse) during the season in the late afternoons. I normally hit multiple balls, hit a number of chips and putts. The course isn't usually crowded at this time of the day so this is basically my practice. I don't record these rounds.

 

Technically you should post your 9 hole rounds and they'll get combined into 18 hole rounds.

[North Butte]

Play for the gross!!!! Take it both ways whether you're in the plus or minus.

 

I'm a 17 and wouldn't have any qualms playing a single straight up. I wouldn't be playing for high stakes (if anything I usually just play for a drink at the bar after). Look at it as a challenge.

 

My friend who's a 28 plays be straight up too. He's caught me a few times when I've flown right off the rails and he's had a good day. It happens.

 

Maybe it's my newbie-ness, but I still don't see much of a point in getting into a competition of "who is playing better than usual"

 

The point is to hopefully be hitting shots that matter on the 15th, 16th, 17th and if you're lucky even 18th hole. A 28 handicapper (100+ shooter) playing straight up against a guy who normally breaks 90 is basically trying to play well enough for the match to close out on the 13th or 14th hole rather than the 10th or 11th. Makes for a rather short and unsatisfying game, doesn't it?

[ram01002]

Perhaps the one guy who plays a lot of elite am events doesn't care about the handicap system because he is a plus and the tournament scores he's posted in mid ams and other big events would likely put him in +3 or +4 territory. At that point if he's only playing scratch events with other elite ams I suppose it might not matter. Just seems odd to me that he'd have some scores posted but not scores from elite events.

 

The other guy who comes to mind does play club events and money games. He's the only 12 handicap I've played with who has broken 80 in a competitive round playing with me. He did it more than once and the scores magically never appeared in his scoring history. Haven't played with him in a couple seasons now. Just always pissed me off to be giving this guy 5 or 6 shots. I'd have to have a career day to beat him with the strokes.

 

On the flip side I played against a guy last season who's game clearly did not match up to his 3 handicap. He shot an 87 on his home course that day and his score was magically never posted either..... Guess he wanted to keep that 3 safe.

 

I'm far from "elite" but this is me. I haven't posted a score in years. i play 10-15 tournament rounds a year and those scores are posted by the tourney committee/head pro. The rest of my rounds are either practice rounds/cash games/or hitting 2 balls on a hole.

[DavePelz4]

Have shared this story too many times but the "gentleman" who has won our city senior championship in 2 of the last 4 years has not posted a single round below 84 in 4 years yet has magically shot in the 70's in both rounds in two years and won twice shooting net -24 and net -18. Just for kicks and grins, another "gentleman" who won in between shot -17.

[bigchucksr]

I see it every year but our club/men's association is pretty careful, at least at the scratch to 10 handicap level to make sure there are no ringers in the crowd. They will assign a "known ability" handicap for those that they know are fudging and it keeps most of the problems down. Like someone mentioned before it is at those higher handicap levels that we see the most "miracle" tournament rounds--the 24 handicapper that came in with an 82 three tournaments in a row.

What solved that particular problem was the lack of turnout of potential players at that handicap level that and a general acceptance that sandbagging is as natural to tournament golf as the sunlight--it is simply going to happen and it is hard to control.

My theory is that when dealing with sandbaggers there is always 2nd or 3rd place in any handicap group and I might as well just try and go for those payouts--sometimes you get your entry money back and sometimes you get that and some pro shop credit!

I wonder more often about players like myself who, for ego reasons, don't post higher scores--a couple of times a month I'll shoot in the high 90's but since "I know" I'm a better golfer than that, those scores don't get posted. We literally handicap ourselves.

[llewol007]

Some play a lot of scramble events and tournaments where there is no way to validate what a players true index is. So hard to police that kind of stuff and unfortunately there are players who take full advantage of it.

[SurfDuffer]

Some play a lot of scramble events and tournaments where there is no way to validate what a players true index is. So hard to police that kind of stuff and unfortunately there are players who take full advantage of it.

 

I'm talking mid-ams and regional elite am tournaments.......not saturday silly golf.

[bigchucksr]

Some play a lot of scramble events and tournaments where there is no way to validate what a players true index is. So hard to police that kind of stuff and unfortunately there are players who take full advantage of it.

 

I'm talking mid-ams and regional elite am tournaments.......not saturday silly golf.

 

Sounds to me like the problem is the same--dead serious "mid-ams" or "elite" tournaments or our "silly" knuckle dragging Saturday club tournaments.

[Truman]

Our policy is if you're on the course a score must be posted. We don't consider the course a practice area. The practice area is for practice.

This policy seems to have minimized our sandbagging issues.

We do occasionally have e new member test the policy. A score of par is entered for them if they "forget", as a service.

 

[taporsnap17]

Maybe it's my newbie-ness, but I still don't see much of a point in getting into a competition of "who is playing better than usual"

 

I think there is some newbie-ness to your perspective. The "point" in getting into a handicap competition is because you don't know who will win. Call it a "challenge" all you like, but a 17 playing a 7 is pretty much a foregone conclusion if it's straight up. Not much of a competition at all, and certainly not one in which both players must do their best to have a chance.

 

Fair play. I personally don't have a problem with it and I'm ok with people that do. I do like flights (which to be fair are open to handicap rorting themselves).

 

Stakes aren't high and at the end of the day, I'm still going to be say having a drink afterwards we're just unsure who's paying for it. It's the odds of winning if the stakes are too high/odds winning too low, find a different game..

[taporsnap17]

Play for the gross!!!! Take it both ways whether you're in the plus or minus.

 

I'm a 17 and wouldn't have any qualms playing a single straight up. I wouldn't be playing for high stakes (if anything I usually just play for a drink at the bar after). Look at it as a challenge.

 

My friend who's a 28 plays be straight up too. He's caught me a few times when I've flown right off the rails and he's had a good day. It happens.

 

Maybe it's my newbie-ness, but I still don't see much of a point in getting into a competition of "who is playing better than usual"

 

The point is to hopefully be hitting shots that matter on the 15th, 16th, 17th and if you're lucky even 18th hole. A 28 handicapper (100+ shooter) playing straight up against a guy who normally breaks 90 is basically trying to play well enough for the match to close out on the 13th or 14th hole rather than the 10th or 11th. Makes for a rather short and unsatisfying game, doesn't it?

 

Unsatisfying? possibly. Short? never. Always make it to the end.

 

In my example with my friend, we keep both the stroke and match play scores. Simply because, straight up, the only reason my handicap is lower is usually because he's due for one or two blow up holes more than me. And when we say blow up, I'm talking double digits type thing. he gets those down, I'm in trouble....

 

We changed to this dual scoring about 6 months in from when we started. Essentially, we didn't want someone to quit after a 10 on the first and mail in the rest of the round so the match play keep us both interested in that regard

[SurfDuffer]

Our policy is if you're on the course a score must be posted. We don't consider the course a practice area. The practice area is for practice.

This policy seems to have minimized our sandbagging issues.

We do occasionally have e new member test the policy. A score of par is entered for them if they "forget", as a service.

 

You'd have to have one hell of a practice facility. When its nice out I'm on the course almost every evening before dark playing til I can't see.

[Vindog]

Our policy is if you're on the course a score must be posted. We don't consider the course a practice area. The practice area is for practice.

This policy seems to have minimized our sandbagging issues.

We do occasionally have e new member test the policy. A score of par is entered for them if they "forget", as a service.

 

Yeah, whatever.

[North Butte]

Our policy is if you're on the course a score must be posted. We don't consider the course a practice area. The practice area is for practice.

This policy seems to have minimized our sandbagging issues.

We do occasionally have e new member test the policy. A score of par is entered for them if they "forget", as a service.

 

Yes, that is exactly the sort of busybody I was describing.

 

I guess you must be really liking the new rule about not posting solo rounds then. Seems like that would take a huge burden of responsibility off your shoulders, innit? No longer have to worry about telling 400 other people that they must play the game exactly, precisely like you do every single time they set foot on the course.

 

What a sadly limited view of the game.

[dpb5031]

Sandbagging takes on many forms, some extreme, some subtle. Who doesn't want the "edge?" Especially when matches are often won or lost by a single stroke (net).

 

As a lower hc player I often wonder... if you win something "net," have you really won anything at all? Yup, I beat Usain Bolt in the 100m with an 80m head start...lol! That's right, I'm the champ! Where's my medal....I'm so proud of myself...lol!?

 

At my home club we maintain our own Stableford handicaps (quotas) for our money games (throw-in and four ball matches).

 

We use a rolling average of each player's 5 best of 10 most recent Stableford scores. We also adjust any score entered into the spreadsheet to 80% of that day's quota to totally eliminate any chance at sandbagging with a totally "tanked" round or two. Quotas are adjusted weekly on Mondays.

 

The above keeps our regular money game fair and square, but obviously won't help with sandbaggers who play outside of our group. I really love the guys who play 95% of their rounds with the wifey, never posting under 90, then habitually "career it" and break 80 in club events. Real beauties! ?