2017 ANA Inspiration - who ya got?

[Argonne69]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Lawyer: Your Honor, I move that the case against my client be dropped. Sure, he committed the robbery, but the police didn't actually witness the crime. Yes, one of the neighbors saw my client driving away from the victim's home, and took a photo of his vehicle, but they didn't report it to the police until the next day! Where's the justice in that?

 

Judge: Well, since it was the next day, I won't drop the charges, but I will give the defendant half the jail time.

 

 

Give the poor soul a break. He/she was obviously working the night shift when the live broadcast was televised, and caught it on his/her DVR after midnight. It's not like the LPGA has a 24 hour hotline one can call.

 

The winner of a stroke play tournament is the player with the lowest accumulated strokes over four rounds. It's not the player who has the lowest score on each day. If a violation of the rules happened during the third round, but wasn't discovered until the fourth round, I have no issue with it. As long as the tournament is still ongoing, the infraction can, and should be addressed.

[deadsolid...shank]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Plus, an official or playing partner are part of the game. Someone sitting at home is not.

[gonggolfer]

Simon Dyson got a 30,000 pound fine for this act & he deserved it imo. Was his a blatant act?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTO-qfCNz9U

[Argonne69]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Plus, an official or playing partner are part of the game. Someone sitting at home is not.

 

Curious. If a spectator on the tournament grounds saw an infraction, and pointed it out to the official, would the official be obligated to discuss it with the player, or ignore the fan?

[deadsolid...shank]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Plus, an official or playing partner are part of the game. Someone sitting at home is not.

 

Curious. If a spectator on the tournament grounds saw an infraction, and pointed it out to the official, would the official be obligated to discuss it with the player, or ignore the fan?

 

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that Argonne. Good question, because in all reality that spectator on the grounds isn't much different than the guy at home.

 

I guess the spectator at the tournament is watching in real time, without cameras zooming it and slow motion replays. So they're in a similar situation with he fellow competitors, it's a one time, in the moment incident. I think if they say they saw something then the official probably should ask the player. Then they have to go with the answer the players give them.

 

All in all, I guess I'm just for the spectators staying out of it. I can't think of any other sport where the spectators are part of the officiating, I think I'd just as soon see golf stay that way. It's supposed to be a self policing sport, and it works pretty well that way.

 

[yurivf143]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Lawyer: Your Honor, I move that the case against my client be dropped. Sure, he committed the robbery, but the police didn't actually witness the crime. Yes, one of the neighbors saw my client driving away from the victim's home, and took a photo of his vehicle, but they didn't report it to the police until the next day! Where's the justice in that?

 

Judge: Well, since it was the next day, I won't drop the charges, but I will give the defendant half the jail time.

 

 

Give the poor soul a break. He/she was obviously working the night shift when the live broadcast was televised, and caught it on his/her DVR after midnight. It's not like the LPGA has a 24 hour hotline one can call.

 

The winner of a stroke play tournament is the player with the lowest accumulated strokes over four rounds. It's not the player who has the lowest score on each day. If a violation of the rules happened during the third round, but wasn't discovered until the fourth round, I have no issue with it. As long as the tournament is still ongoing, the infraction can, and should be addressed.

 

Lawywr: My client and the defendant signed a contract. Afterwards, we decided we didn't like it and unilaterally changed it. We now want you to rule against the defendant for breach of contract.

 

Judge: We find the defendant guilty of breach of contract for a contract that was altered after the fact without their knowledge.

 

That is more like what happened. I have no problem with the penalty for moving the ball. But the "incorrect scorecard" ruling is not right. When Lexi signed the scorecard, it was, in fact, correct and accepted by the LPGA and her playing partner as correct when it was signed. The fact that the LPGA decided after the fact to change one of the scores does not change that. Lexi was not penalized for signing an incorrect scorecard, she was penalized for not being a psychic.

 

The Masters had it right when the decided not to DQ Tiger Woods for the same infraction in 2013.

 

As for the other part, say in the Super Bowl, a team got a touchdown in the first quarter. Then, with 5 minutes left in the game, an official notifies the coach that they reviewed the first quarter TD and decided it was invalid, so they are taking away 7 points form them. Are you OK with that too?

[ChronicSlicer]

 

Curious. If a spectator on the tournament grounds saw an infraction, and pointed it out to the official, would the official be obligated to discuss it with the player, or ignore the fan?

 

This would be ok (imho) because the current round is still ongoing. But, the idea of fans suggesting infractions could be very tedious and time consuming, and would require an instant replay to make a decision final.

[ChronicSlicer]

 

As for the other part, say in the Super Bowl, a team got a touchdown in the first quarter. Then, with 5 minutes left in the game, an official notifies the coach that they reviewed the first quarter TD and decided it was invalid, so they are taking away 7 points form them. Are you OK with that too?

 

Or what if the game ended and Monday morning they find a very obvious video of a penalty that wasn`t called leading to that game winning touchdown. Do they decide to take away the points and call it a tie?

 

At the end of the day fans should not be policing any sporting event, especially from home, a day later. Once a scorecard is signed it should be final. Round over.

If someone does deserve a penalty, it should be addressed before that person signs the scorecard,if they can`t decide on a result and that person finishes the round before being penalized,good on them they got a free one. Bad on the officials for being inefficient.

 

Phoned or Emailed complaints should not be acceptable, if they continue to accept this they should at least address the issue of signing an incorrect scorecard.

[Argonne69]

Golf is rather unique in that it's not played on a 100 yard by 40 yard field with a dozen officials and instant replay. Heck, football instituted replay because we'd all watch the blown calls on TV and yell at the screen. The coaches and fans in the stadium would see the same blown call on the big screen. No, golf is played on acres of land with 70 players. There's really no way to cover ever player's every shot. Two playing partners could be on opposite sides of the fairway. If there were a walking official with every player, maybe we'd come close to the real-time officiating people seem to want. I'm not sure we'll see that happen any time soon.

 

So, in a way I think the cats out of the bag. Technology is here. Fans have access to the video. 'Not sure everyone would be happy if Lexi was holding the trophy while they were replaying a video of the infraction that she "got away with". If the tournament is over, then there's probably not much that can be done. However, in this case the tournament was still ongoing.

[Argonne69]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Lawyer: Your Honor, I move that the case against my client be dropped. Sure, he committed the robbery, but the police didn't actually witness the crime. Yes, one of the neighbors saw my client driving away from the victim's home, and took a photo of his vehicle, but they didn't report it to the police until the next day! Where's the justice in that?

 

Judge: Well, since it was the next day, I won't drop the charges, but I will give the defendant half the jail time.

 

 

Give the poor soul a break. He/she was obviously working the night shift when the live broadcast was televised, and caught it on his/her DVR after midnight. It's not like the LPGA has a 24 hour hotline one can call.

 

The winner of a stroke play tournament is the player with the lowest accumulated strokes over four rounds. It's not the player who has the lowest score on each day. If a violation of the rules happened during the third round, but wasn't discovered until the fourth round, I have no issue with it. As long as the tournament is still ongoing, the infraction can, and should be addressed.

 

Lawywr: My client and the defendant signed a contract. Afterwards, we decided we didn't like it and unilaterally changed it. We now want you to rule against the defendant for breach of contract.

 

Judge: We find the defendant guilty of breach of contract for a contract that was altered after the fact without their knowledge.

 

That is more like what happened. I have no problem with the penalty for moving the ball. But the "incorrect scorecard" ruling is not right. When Lexi signed the scorecard, it was, in fact, correct and accepted by the LPGA and her playing partner as correct when it was signed. The fact that the LPGA decided after the fact to change one of the scores does not change that. Lexi was not penalized for signing an incorrect scorecard, she was penalized for not being a psychic.

 

The Masters had it right when the decided not to DQ Tiger Woods for the same infraction in 2013.

 

As for the other part, say in the Super Bowl, a team got a touchdown in the first quarter. Then, with 5 minutes left in the game, an official notifies the coach that they reviewed the first quarter TD and decided it was invalid, so they are taking away 7 points form them. Are you OK with that too?

 

Tiger was not DQ'd because the rules officials had decided (incorrectly) that he was in the clear. In this case the rules violation was unknown to the officials at the end of the round. When they became aware of it, they acted immediately.

 

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

[Bad9]

 

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

 

So does this mean that the World Series is a single event played over multiple days too? I don't disagree with the fact that she broke the rule or that they had to act upon it when it was brought to their attention, it's their policy. My biggest beef is the policy of allowing outside agents to call/email in at all. Especially since it cannot be applied equally to ALL competitors. And I do believe that once a tournament round is done(which is 18 holes even though 4 rounds are used to determine the winner) that should be it.

[DavePelz4]

Lexi speaks...via IG...

 

22h

lexi

 

"Let me start by congratulating So Yeon Ryu on her playoff victory yesterday at the ANA Inspiration. She fought extremely hard and played amazing golf.

 

I don’t want anything that happened yesterday to take away from So Yeon's victory. The LPGA rules officials made a judgment call at the moment, and we as professional golfers must accept it, no matter how painful it is. What happened was not intentional at all, I would never do that purposely. And I hope everyone knows that.

 

I want to thank the amazing fans out on the course for all their support. Their cheering helped get me through those last 6 holes. Hearing all the fans cheer me on after every shot, going to every tee, truly brought tears to my eyes every time.

I also want to thank the fans around the world who have reached out to me to offer their support, and for being there for me in this difficult situation. Your support means so much to me ....... I'm so blessed to have you all as my fans. I love you all and the game of golf, and I look forward to seeing all of you very soon."

[The Pearl]

Golf is rather unique in that it's not played on a 100 yard by 40 yard field with a dozen officials and instant replay. Heck, football instituted replay because we'd all watch the blown calls on TV and yell at the screen. The coaches and fans in the stadium would see the same blown call on the big screen. No, golf is played on acres of land with 70 players. There's really no way to cover ever player's every shot. Two playing partners could be on opposite sides of the fairway. If there were a walking official with every player, maybe we'd come close to the real-time officiating people seem to want. I'm not sure we'll see that happen any time soon.

 

So, in a way I think the cats out of the bag. Technology is here. Fans have access to the video. 'Not sure everyone would be happy if Lexi was holding the trophy while they were replaying a video of the infraction that she "got away with". If the tournament is over, then there's probably not much that can be done. However, in this case the tournament was still ongoing.

 

 

Golf can't have it both ways. It can't claim that every shot can't be on video and than use video to apply rules depending on the random nature of who happens to be on camera at any given time. In the other sports, everybody is on camera all the time. Strike One.

 

You compound the insanity of the issue by allowing people outside the official capacity of the competition to insert themselves into the process. Strike Two.

 

Every other sport has a clear set of rules as to who can make "the calls" and when those calls are "final" and does so in a timely fashion as so that all participants can properly execute their game plan going forward. Golf does not. Strike Three.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the archaic nature of the ridiculous tradition of the manual scorecard signing which has zero to do with the skill required in competition. It is 2017, not 1922.

 

The issue isn't whether Lexi did what she did or that she should incur a penalty, the issue is the "process" not the "violation".

 

 

Bad organizations use bad processes. Good organizations use good processes and always try to seek streamlined processes.

 

Easily solved:

 

1. Nobody outside of a player, another player, or a rules official can call a penatly

2. Either everybody is videoed for every shot or no player can be penalized as a result of video. If this is not acceptable, than use whatever number of tour officials to watch in real time and than review after the day's competition if there is an issue.

3. Render decisions by a set time frame at the end of each day prior to the next day's play. If it is the final round, put more eyeballs on the live broadcast so you can expedite the process post round.

4. Deep six the scorecard signing along with the rotary phone and dial up internet. They aren't mowing the greens with hand pushed rotary blade mowers.

 

Start with common sense and tweek for improvement like a sensible organization would attempt.

[Argonne69]

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

 

So does this mean that the World Series is a single event played over multiple days too? I don't disagree with the fact that she broke the rule or that they had to act upon it when it was brought to their attention, it's their policy. My biggest beef is the policy of allowing outside agents to call/email in at all. Especially since it cannot be applied equally to ALL competitors. And I do believe that once a tournament round is done(which is 18 holes even though 4 rounds are used to determine the winner) that should be it.

 

Of course not. The World Series is set up as a best of 7 event. However, a stroke play event is not set up as a best of 4 round event. It's a single accumulated score.

 

The process is very clear. Ultimately, the ruling officials make the decisions, not the fans. The fans may call or email, but the officials enforce the rules.

 

The rules of golf are clear. While a tournament is in progress, scores can change, includes ones previously posted.

[DavePelz4]

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

 

So does this mean that the World Series is a single event played over multiple days too? I don't disagree with the fact that she broke the rule or that they had to act upon it when it was brought to their attention, it's their policy. My biggest beef is the policy of allowing outside agents to call/email in at all. Especially since it cannot be applied equally to ALL competitors. And I do believe that once a tournament round is done(which is 18 holes even though 4 rounds are used to determine the winner) that should be it.

 

Of course not. The World Series is set up as a best of 7 event. However, a stroke play event is not set up as a best of 4 round event. It's a single accumulated score.

 

The process is very clear. Ultimately, the ruling officials make the decisions, not the fans. The fans may call or email, but the officials enforce the rules.

 

The rules of golf are clear. While a tournament is in progress, scores can change, includes ones previously posted.

 

Arg, I'm with you a lot...but let's say the incident took place on Friday with a player on the cut line and wasn't changed until the round was in process on Saturday. If that person had a 4 stroke penalty, they wouldn't have made the cut but several other players would have. What do they do then?

[The Pearl]

I believe as the events unfolded one can easily claim that we just watched the textbook definition of a bureaucracy. Complexity, convolution, inefficiency, and dehumanization. In striving to serve too many masters, golf's ruling body and officials served none. Idiotic rules on top of idiotic rules on top of archaic rules resulting in multiple unintended consequences.

 

The players are professionals. There livelihoods depend on knowing the rules, as crazy as they may seem. They also know the consequences of violating the rules. This isn't the first time a tournament has been decided by a penalty. You think a player should be able to play a ball at any point other than its original position? Let me guess, you think players should be able to kick their balls out of divots, or out from behind a tree?

 

Nobody has a problem with the rule that states you must put your ball back where it was after you mark it. The convolution is allowing outside agents not affiliated with the tournament to be allowed to set a process in motion which FORCES an organization to trigger a chain of events that results in unintended consequences. Rules are not linear, they often compound. Rules combined with a bad process compound at a faster rate. The more rules within a give system applied using a bad process compounds at an even faster rate.

 

Golf has a complexity problem and a process problem (at the tour level).

[Shilgy]

Golf is rather unique in that it's not played on a 100 yard by 40 yard field with a dozen officials and instant replay. Heck, football instituted replay because we'd all watch the blown calls on TV and yell at the screen. The coaches and fans in the stadium would see the same blown call on the big screen. No, golf is played on acres of land with 70 players. There's really no way to cover ever player's every shot. Two playing partners could be on opposite sides of the fairway. If there were a walking official with every player, maybe we'd come close to the real-time officiating people seem to want. I'm not sure we'll see that happen any time soon.

 

So, in a way I think the cats out of the bag. Technology is here. Fans have access to the video. 'Not sure everyone would be happy if Lexi was holding the trophy while they were replaying a video of the infraction that she "got away with". If the tournament is over, then there's probably not much that can be done. However, in this case the tournament was still ongoing.

 

 

Golf can't have it both ways. It can't claim that every shot can't be on video and than use video to apply rules depending on the random nature of who happens to be on camera at any given time. In the other sports, everybody is on camera all the time. Strike One.

 

You compound the insanity of the issue by allowing people outside the official capacity of the competition to insert themselves into the process. Strike Two.

 

Every other sport has a clear set of rules as to who can make "the calls" and when those calls are "final" and does so in a timely fashion as so that all participants can properly execute their game plan going forward. Golf does not. Strike Three.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the archaic nature of the ridiculous tradition of the manual scorecard signing which has zero to do with the skill required in competition. It is 2017, not 1922.

 

The issue isn't whether Lexi did what she did or that she should incur a penalty, the issue is the "process" not the "violation".

 

 

Bad organizations use bad processes. Good organizations use good processes and always try to seek streamlined processes.

 

Easily solved:

 

1. Nobody outside of a player, another player, or a rules official can call a penatly

2. Either everybody is videoed for every shot or no player can be penalized as a result of video. If this is not acceptable, than use whatever number of tour officials to watch in real time and than review after the day's competition if there is an issue.

3. Render decisions by a set time frame at the end of each day prior to the next day's play. If it is the final round, put more eyeballs on the live broadcast so you can expedite the process post round.

4. Deep six the scorecard signing along with the rotary phone and dial up internet. They aren't mowing the greens with hand pushed rotary blade mowers.

 

Start with common sense and tweek for improvement like a sensible organization would attempt.

So you would be okay with a foot wedge caught on video not able to be assessed as a penalty? Sounds extreme but hey-if no one else saw it it's okay? That is my farcical way of saying you cannot ignore violations just because all of them are not seen by the player or officials. Do you want an official with each player hovering over their every move?

Officials in golf are not the same as other sports officials. They are mainly there to assist-not spot violations.

I do agree with you on the scorecards issue. It is an archaic system.

[The Pearl]

Golf is rather unique in that it's not played on a 100 yard by 40 yard field with a dozen officials and instant replay. Heck, football instituted replay because we'd all watch the blown calls on TV and yell at the screen. The coaches and fans in the stadium would see the same blown call on the big screen. No, golf is played on acres of land with 70 players. There's really no way to cover ever player's every shot. Two playing partners could be on opposite sides of the fairway. If there were a walking official with every player, maybe we'd come close to the real-time officiating people seem to want. I'm not sure we'll see that happen any time soon.

 

So, in a way I think the cats out of the bag. Technology is here. Fans have access to the video. 'Not sure everyone would be happy if Lexi was holding the trophy while they were replaying a video of the infraction that she "got away with". If the tournament is over, then there's probably not much that can be done. However, in this case the tournament was still ongoing.

 

 

Golf can't have it both ways. It can't claim that every shot can't be on video and than use video to apply rules depending on the random nature of who happens to be on camera at any given time. In the other sports, everybody is on camera all the time. Strike One.

 

You compound the insanity of the issue by allowing people outside the official capacity of the competition to insert themselves into the process. Strike Two.

 

Every other sport has a clear set of rules as to who can make "the calls" and when those calls are "final" and does so in a timely fashion as so that all participants can properly execute their game plan going forward. Golf does not. Strike Three.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the archaic nature of the ridiculous tradition of the manual scorecard signing which has zero to do with the skill required in competition. It is 2017, not 1922.

 

The issue isn't whether Lexi did what she did or that she should incur a penalty, the issue is the "process" not the "violation".

 

 

Bad organizations use bad processes. Good organizations use good processes and always try to seek streamlined processes.

 

Easily solved:

 

1. Nobody outside of a player, another player, or a rules official can call a penatly

2. Either everybody is videoed for every shot or no player can be penalized as a result of video. If this is not acceptable, than use whatever number of tour officials to watch in real time and than review after the day's competition if there is an issue.

3. Render decisions by a set time frame at the end of each day prior to the next day's play. If it is the final round, put more eyeballs on the live broadcast so you can expedite the process post round.

4. Deep six the scorecard signing along with the rotary phone and dial up internet. They aren't mowing the greens with hand pushed rotary blade mowers.

 

Start with common sense and tweek for improvement like a sensible organization would attempt.

So you would be okay with a foot wedge caught on video not able to be assessed as a penalty? Sounds extreme but hey-if no one else saw it it's okay? That is my farcical way of saying you cannot ignore violations just because all of them are not seen by the player or officials. Do you want an official with each player hovering over their every move?

Officials in golf are not the same as other sports officials. They are mainly there to assist-not spot violations.

I do agree with you on the scorecards issue. It is an archaic system.

 

Nice straw man.

 

A player that used a foot wedge caught on video (I am assuming by the TV broadcast) would be obviously spotted by my second sentence in No. 2 above either live or in the post round review covered by No. 3.

[JMoroz]

I understand Lexi did move her ball. I understand the penalties also. What I don`t understand is why someone cared enough to call in and rip someones dreams apart over something so petty. Whoever you are, I wish you the worst luck.

 

I don't understand the anger directed at the person who caught the infraction. Would it have made any difference if a rule official would have caught it? If the player's partner had caught it? If the player had called it on themselves? Once the act was done, and the hole finished, it was a penalty, regardless of the source of the information.

 

 

Yes, it would have made a difference if an official,or the opponent or the player themselves would have caught it DURING the round. It wouldn`t have been a four stroke penalty, only two strokes. Her score card would have been correct,if the infraction was caught BEFORE the round ended.

 

Plus, an official or playing partner are part of the game. Someone sitting at home is not.

 

Curious. If a spectator on the tournament grounds saw an infraction, and pointed it out to the official, would the official be obligated to discuss it with the player, or ignore the fan?

 

If a fan could find a rules official. Belive me they aren't easy to track down. Even when a player requests through walkie talkie to have one come over for a ruling.

[Argonne69]

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

 

So does this mean that the World Series is a single event played over multiple days too? I don't disagree with the fact that she broke the rule or that they had to act upon it when it was brought to their attention, it's their policy. My biggest beef is the policy of allowing outside agents to call/email in at all. Especially since it cannot be applied equally to ALL competitors. And I do believe that once a tournament round is done(which is 18 holes even though 4 rounds are used to determine the winner) that should be it.

 

Of course not. The World Series is set up as a best of 7 event. However, a stroke play event is not set up as a best of 4 round event. It's a single accumulated score.

 

The process is very clear. Ultimately, the ruling officials make the decisions, not the fans. The fans may call or email, but the officials enforce the rules.

 

The rules of golf are clear. While a tournament is in progress, scores can change, includes ones previously posted.

 

Arg, I'm with you a lot...but let's say the incident took place on Friday with a player on the cut line and wasn't changed until the round was in process on Saturday. If that person had a 4 stroke penalty, they wouldn't have made the cut but several other players would have. What do they do then?

 

'Very good question. I'm not sure. I assume they'd DQ the player on the spot, but the players who should have made the cut would likely out of luck unfortunately. Not every wrong can be righted, but surely ones that can should be addressed. I've tried numerous times to get out of speeding tickets using the reasoning that I wasn't the only one speeding. Strangely, it never seems to work very well.

[Argonne69]

Perhaps some fans should lobby the tours to create multi-day tournaments. NASCAR does this, no? Players would receive points for their position at the end of each round. The results would be official for each round at midnight. The highest point total would be the winner. In theory, the winner could be a player who didn't finish first on any day.

 

I'm guessing it would go over like a lead balloon.

 

Again, I think many of you are looking at a tournament as four rounds. I view it, as do the rules, as a 72 hole stroke play event. The fact that it involved four 18 hole go arounds is pretty much immaterial. Yes, they usually, but not always, re-pair after certain rounds. However, it's not mandatory. There are no prizes awarded after 9, 18, 38, or 71 holes.

 

A poster in the rules forum summed it up pretty well. There's no practical way to referee 10,000+ shots during the course of a tournament. Heck, basketball and football can't get it right on a small court/field with numerous refs. Golf is self policing, and requires honesty on behalf of the participants. However, to be effective it has to have severe penalties for being "dishonest". That sometimes includes mental screw-ups, and not intentional cheating. Since we can't read minds, the intent is not included in the rule.

[Argonne69]

 

Curious. If a spectator on the tournament grounds saw an infraction, and pointed it out to the official, would the official be obligated to discuss it with the player, or ignore the fan?

 

If a fan could find a rules official. Belive me they aren't easy to track down. Even when a player requests through walkie talkie to have one come over for a ruling.

 

Lol. OK, so what if the fan e-mailed the rules officials from his phone?

[AndyLL]

 

Again, we're talking about a decision made before the completion of the tournament. A stroke play event is not 4 independent rounds, but rather a single event played over 4 days. Not sure why everyone keeps bringing up an after-tournament scenario. The answer there is well defined. The results stand.

 

If golf is a 'single event played over 4 days' than why the 2 stoke penalty for an incorrect scorecard on 1 round?

 

Golf wants to have it both ways.

 

Each round is complete with the golfer/marker attesting to the rounds score but also each round is not complete with the ability to modify previous rounds.

 

It makes zero sense.

[Highland]

It was the WAY she was called on it & the WAY she was penalized, and WHEN she was penalized that was the problem. I saw an interview with Ricky Fowler today on TV and he said that TV viewers being allowed to call in penalties on players has always been a bone of contention & players do not like it at all. He's surprised it hasn't been done away with long before now. I hope the USGA will finally stop allowing this practice.

I agree completely. NO professional sport - whether golf, basketball, baseball, football or even tiddlywinks (assuming there's a pro league for that) - should accept any phone calls or emails from TV-viewing armchair officials - let alone 20 hours or so after the fact. This is ridiculous.

 

Did any of you who continue to argue "well, Lexi, broke the rule, so she should have been punished" ever play an actual sport? If the violation is not called when it occurs, it shouldn't be deemed to have occurred. Otherwise, I'm going to call the NBA after every Cavaliers game and insist that James be called for fouls and violations the refs were too chicken to call.

[Bad9]

Again, I think many of you are looking at a tournament as four rounds. I view it, as do the rules, as a 72 hole stroke play event. The fact that it involved four 18 hole go arounds is pretty much immaterial. Yes, they usually, but not always, re-pair after certain rounds. However, it's not mandatory. There are no prizes awarded after 9, 18, 38, or 71 holes.

 

Then why bother having 18 hole scorecards that have to be verified individually? It is scored and treated as four rounds with the cumulative score of the four deciding the winner. That is not immaterial to the discussion. If what you say is correct why not just one 72 hole scorecard that one verifies at the end? That would have eliminated 2 of Lexi's penalty because she would not have signed an incorrect scorecard-it could have been fixed.

[LexHair]

I think it was Mark Cannizzaro in the NY Post today mentioned the disparity in application because most rounds, especially on the LPGA are not broadcast. So if Lexi was a hack playing out the string with a 5:45am tee time and did this, nobody would know any better. She was penalized (right or wrong) because she was leading the tournament and on national TV.

 

I've spent a good share of my adult life officiating soccer and to Highland's point, once the ball is back in play, that's the end of the referee fiddling with the match.

[Warrick]

It was the WAY she was called on it & the WAY she was penalized, and WHEN she was penalized that was the problem. I saw an interview with Ricky Fowler today on TV and he said that TV viewers being allowed to call in penalties on players has always been a bone of contention & players do not like it at all. He's surprised it hasn't been done away with long before now. I hope the USGA will finally stop allowing this practice.

I agree completely. NO professional sport - whether golf, basketball, baseball, football or even tiddlywinks (assuming there's a pro league for that) - should accept any phone calls or emails from TV-viewing armchair officials - let alone 20 hours or so after the fact. This is ridiculous.

 

Did any of you who continue to argue "well, Lexi, broke the rule, so she should have been punished" ever play an actual sport? If the violation is not called when it occurs, it shouldn't be deemed to have occurred. Otherwise, I'm going to call the NBA after every Cavaliers game and insist that James be called for fouls and violations the refs were too chicken to call.

 

 

You don't have to call anyone on this, they had the balls to make the call, as uncomfortable as it was.

 

Yep, played most sports. You don't have to deal with things like this if you don't break the rules. I still don not think she did anything intentionally, but it was very careless. Until they change a rule, this is how it had to be.

[Argonne69]

Again, I think many of you are looking at a tournament as four rounds. I view it, as do the rules, as a 72 hole stroke play event. The fact that it involved four 18 hole go arounds is pretty much immaterial. Yes, they usually, but not always, re-pair after certain rounds. However, it's not mandatory. There are no prizes awarded after 9, 18, 38, or 71 holes.

 

Then why bother having 18 hole scorecards that have to be verified individually? It is scored and treated as four rounds with the cumulative score of the four deciding the winner. That is not immaterial to the discussion. If what you say is correct why not just one 72 hole scorecard that one verifies at the end? That would have eliminated 2 of Lexi's penalty because she would not have signed an incorrect scorecard-it could have been fixed.

 

I'd have no problem with that. For events with cuts, they'd likely have to set it up as 2 36 hole events.

[Argonne69]

I think it was Mark Cannizzaro in the NY Post today mentioned the disparity in application because most rounds, especially on the LPGA are not broadcast. So if Lexi was a hack playing out the string with a 5:45am tee time and did this, nobody would know any better. She was penalized (right or wrong) because she was leading the tournament and on national TV.

 

I've spent a good share of my adult life officiating soccer and to Highland's point, once the ball is back in play, that's the end of the referee fiddling with the match.

 

Unlike most sports, golf doesn't have enough officials to watch every call. Even in those sports, they use video replay to confirm/overrule calls.

 

Are you suggesting that the tours hire 72 or 144 refs to tag along with each player?

[legitimategolf]

Are you suggesting that the tours hire 72 or 144 refs to tag along with each player?

 

I've been chuckling at some of the suggestions thrown around in the last 48 hours. I think some actually assume that the LPGA is this money-printing machine with bottomless funds to spend on an army of referees to police every shot by every player during every hole of every round. FAIRNESS! All because of one player's improper marking.