Hagestad anchoring??

[nbg352]

Of course absolutely cheating just as Langer does. The "rules" of this gentlemen's game are always subject to the vagueriesof popularity and stature. Remember, we watch Kevin Na, and Ben Crane and a bunch of others break the rule on pace of play virtually every shot, certainly every tournament they play,,,,, who get's the first and only stroke penalty in memory? A teenage amateur.

 

I believe (perhaps wishful thinking) that Langer would not be given that gentlemen's free pass to cheat his way to Schwab Cup after Schwab Cup on the regular tour. Tim Clark, Adam Scott, Webb Simpson, Keegan Bradley....none of them would have a tour card without anchoring. Scott is sooo good with the rest of his clubs that he may be the exception.

 

We have a guy at our club who thinks he is Langer, and nobody has had the temerity to call him on it.....well I'll let you know how it goes in about 60 days during the Sr. Club Championship cause I am gonna be THAT guy. Won't be popular, but hell rules are rules.

 

If I see a guy contorting his face and arms on National TV, I am gonna say he did it, no matter how many times he says he didn't and no matter how popular he may be.

 

EDIT- to be clear, I think people calling or emailing in to professional tournaments are tools of the highest order, and I cannot fathom why these agencies answer these calls literally OR figuratively.

Explain to us please exactly how it is that Langer et al are cheating in your mind? I'm trying hard to get your drift....

Putter is legal.

Putter length is legal.

Stroke is not anchored and so is legal.

Putter grip / top hand touches shirt. That's legal.

There has never been a complaint on tour or by officials of the tour to suggest that he is cheating.

A reasonable man would therefore conclude that his putting method is perfectly legal.

Even if you don't like the look of it.

I f any of what I have typed is incorrect, I'll be happy to stand corrected. All I ask is that you quote the applicable rule that gives your belief credence.

Thanks.

[Vindog]

I think the rule was implemented poorly. As a result, things like this were made possible.

 

The USGA should have limited the length of the putter to the same length as the driver - 48". Then we're not having this discussion.

No club in the bag can exceed 48" in length, including the putter.

 

I don't think this is correct, although it should be.

 

That said, I also don't think that reducing putter length to 48" max solves the "problem" either.

 

 

1. Clubs

 

c. Length

 

 

The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457 m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219 m).

[wolfpack]

He is an amateur, does he have to adhere to the pro rules? Meaning anchoring, conforming wedges, etc? Real question.

[bscinstnct]

Broomstick make Pga tour like,

 

 

[Vindog]

He is an amateur, does he have to adhere to the pro rules? Meaning anchoring, conforming wedges, etc? Real question.

 

Yes

 

Anchoring is a USGA rule (14-1b) that everyone must follow in events governed by the rules of the USGA, from pros all the way down to club level.

 

The groove rule is a Condition of Competition, that is in play for professional events and elite Amateur events, all USGA events including qualifiers. So he's been under that Condition for some time now

[Yellow Jacket]

Hagestad anchors not with the butt of the putter against his chest or his thumb sitting on top of it against his cheat, but with his actual hand/wrist pressed against his chest. This is textbook anchoring but doesn't look like it at first glance because the butt of the putter isn't against his chest.

 

Nobody calls him on it because they don't want to look like a p***y who doesn't think they can beat someone who has to use a long putter. Seriously, it's all ego.

[sdandrea]

I'm surprised the arm-chair rules officials have not called or emailed in from their recliners on Langer or Hagestad. :stop:

[Vindog]

I'm surprised the arm-chair rules officials have not called or emailed in from their recliners on Langer or Hagestad. :stop:

 

Maybe they have.

 

Maybe it's Outlier ;)

[rafal]

The all too loose clothing is a nice touch. Same as Langer. Both are irrelevant hence they are allowed in their cheating ways. If it ever became a thing among real ranked golfers there's going to be a reaction.

[OBbogey5]

Lincoln said it best...

 

A putting rule divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this putting rule cannot endure, permanently, half long putter and half short putter. I do not expect putting to be dissolved — I do not expect the game of golf to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other. Either the opponents of the long putter will arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction; or its advocates will push it forward, till it shall become lawful in all the Game, old as well as new — short as well as long.

[bladehunter]

Probably worth noting that's an Australian sports writer and the ultimate goal with that article is to claim that Australian Curtis Luck should have won low amateur. Not exactly unbiased reporting there.

 

exactly....and Luck should have been DQ for that hideous Man Bun he sports.. there.. i said it .. something about that kid creeps me out...

[bladehunter]

I'm surprised the arm-chair rules officials have not called or emailed in from their recliners on Langer or Hagestad. :stop:

 

 

all those old chaps use the broomstick.... lol ..thats the one thing they dont want called

[HighSpeedScene]

This whole is he/isnt he anchoring argument with the guys that still use the long putter is really getting sad and tired, whether its Langer or now Hagestad.

 

I mean, its ridiculous...the guy has the week of a lifetime as a mid-am - something he'll probably never replicate again as he says he has no interest in playing major tournament golf and will return to his work- and some writer wants to tear him down because he beat the Australian amateur who is now turning professional.

 

These guys say they dont anchor, and they are no doubt reviewed by tournament officials. They say they're OK. No playing partners or other competitors complain. I just dont get it. Let the guys play.

 

Unfortunately there are is a group of people out there that want to be the one to catch somebody doing something. It's big Brother at it's finest. Before the round had ended yesterday, someone had called in and said Sergio moved his ball in the straw at 13. The committee had already reviewed the footage and determined the ball didn't move. Who knows why this is all of a sudden such an issue. Maybe it's professional gamblers on Draft Kings trying to get more points for their team...

 

Please explain how somebody called in on Sergio when they didn't televise the view that showed anything until after they announced that it was being reviewed?

 

I get it - some people want the committee to ignore some violations depending on the method of discovery, but no need to being that argument in here - and especially not with the Sergio thing at 13.

 

You guys are just making stuff up now

[williamsnrb]

There are Bernhard threads that already hashed this out. It must be an April topic...

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1317950-bernhard-langers-un-anchored-putting/page__st__60

 

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1286168-bernhard-langers-new-putting-stroke-merged/

[ebk]

I was there Saturday. Saw him live on fifth green. Now we were about 50 yards away, but all four of us thought it looked as though he was anchoring. My buddy pulled out the binos and said he was anchoring. Although, we were face on to him and I suspaect two things:

 

You would really need a lateral view close up to see if he's clear and not anchoring, and

 

Wouldn't someone call him on it? You'd think someone would say something. Also, I assume this is the same stroke he used to win the mid am, and I doubt the USGA blazer and dandruff crowd would let that slide, nor would fellow competitors.

[27x10.5]

But he's an amateur, doesn't the rule change go in effect way later?

[Vindog]

But he's an amateur, doesn't the rule change go in effect way later?

 

Negative. Rule 14-1b (the anchoring rule) was put into the books 1/1/16 and it applies to everyone, from pros all the way down, for all rounds to be played in accordance with the Rules of Golf. It's not a local rule (such as accidental ball moving on the green) and it's not a Condition of Competition (such as the groove rule).

[Outlier]

But he's an amateur, doesn't the rule change go in effect way later?

 

Negative. Rule 14-1b (the anchoring rule) was put into the books 1/1/16 and it applies to everyone, from pros all the way down for all rounds to be played in accordance with the Rules of Golf. It's not a local rule (such as accidental ball moving on the green) and it's not a Condition of Competition (such as the groove rule).

 

And since he is anchoring it's not cool....oh wait he says he's NOT anchoring what we see, that's just incidental touching due to a loose shirt.....

[Scooterboy59]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

[Vindog]

As strange as it may seem, I will trust that the people on the course would be watching as it is such a hotbed issue.

[Outlier]

Of course absolutely cheating just as Langer does. The "rules" of this gentlemen's game are always subject to the vagueriesof popularity and stature. Remember, we watch Kevin Na, and Ben Crane and a bunch of others break the rule on pace of play virtually every shot, certainly every tournament they play,,,,, who get's the first and only stroke penalty in memory? A teenage amateur.

 

I believe (perhaps wishful thinking) that Langer would not be given that gentlemen's free pass to cheat his way to Schwab Cup after Schwab Cup on the regular tour. Tim Clark, Adam Scott, Webb Simpson, Keegan Bradley....none of them would have a tour card without anchoring. Scott is sooo good with the rest of his clubs that he may be the exception.

 

We have a guy at our club who thinks he is Langer, and nobody has had the temerity to call him on it.....well I'll let you know how it goes in about 60 days during the Sr. Club Championship cause I am gonna be THAT guy. Won't be popular, but hell rules are rules.

 

If I see a guy contorting his face and arms on National TV, I am gonna say he did it, no matter how many times he says he didn't and no matter how popular he may be.

 

EDIT- to be clear, I think people calling or emailing in to professional tournaments are tools of the highest order, and I cannot fathom why these agencies answer these calls literally OR figuratively.

Explain to us please exactly how it is that Langer et al are cheating in your mind? I'm trying hard to get your drift....

Putter is legal.

Putter length is legal.

Stroke is not anchored and so is legal.

Putter grip / top hand touches shirt. That's legal.

There has never been a complaint on tour or by officials of the tour to suggest that he is cheating.

A reasonable man would therefore conclude that his putting method is perfectly legal.

Even if you don't like the look of it.

I f any of what I have typed is incorrect, I'll be happy to stand corrected. All I ask is that you quote the applicable rule that gives your belief credence.

Thanks.

 

Top hand, inside wrist repeatedly anchored against body = cheating. Used to solve inability to actually put like they do i golf.

[Outlier]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

 

But yet they didn't and they are still anchoring in plain sight.

[bladehunter]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

 

yes because they have never missed a call..... I dont know if hes anchoring or not , but because the USGA says so or not isnt a great rule of thumb.... after all they are the ones who made this halfway rule that allowed the broomstick to stay ...They are the kings of controversy...I mean you cant use square grooves now either..unless you sue them and get an exception.. cant anchor, unless its to your forearm, etc.... so you just never know

[King_Slender]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

 

I honestly don't care, but unless an official is 2 feet away during the stroke, there is no way to tell. You can anchor the putter right up to the point that you make the stroke, move it 1mm away from your body, and you're good to go. No camera, especially if the shirt is not skin tight, can pick that up.

[Hattie Pants]

Outlier what is the resolution you are hoping for?

[27x10.5]

But he's an amateur, doesn't the rule change go in effect way later?

 

Negative. Rule 14-1b (the anchoring rule) was put into the books 1/1/16 and it applies to everyone, from pros all the way down, for all rounds to be played in accordance with the Rules of Golf. It's not a local rule (such as accidental ball moving on the green) and it's not a Condition of Competition (such as the groove rule).

 

I probably thought that because of the groove thing when they said amateurs could play the old clubs for x amount of years

[2putttom]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

 

yes because they have never missed a call..... I dont know if hes anchoring or not , but because the USGA says so or not isnt a great rule of thumb.... after all they are the ones who made this halfway rule that allowed the broomstick to stay ...They are the kings of controversy...I mean you cant use square grooves now either..unless you sue them and get an exception.. cant anchor, unless its to your forearm, etc.... so you just never know

like this

 

What happens if two players disagree about whether one has anchored or there is uncertainty about whether the Rule has been breached?

As with many other Rules, the determination of whether Rule 14-1b has been breached must be made in light of all of the available facts. As the Rule only prohibits intentional anchoring, the critical question is whether, in making a stroke, the player purposely anchored the club, either directly or by use of an anchor point, or whether any contact with the body was unintentional

[bladehunter]

If Hagestad or Langer was anchoring it would have been addressed. What he was doing is legal end of story!!!!!! There are plenty of USGA officials there at the Masters and if he was doing it wrong it would have been called. He also won a USGA event with this style.

 

yes because they have never missed a call..... I dont know if hes anchoring or not , but because the USGA says so or not isnt a great rule of thumb.... after all they are the ones who made this halfway rule that allowed the broomstick to stay ...They are the kings of controversy...I mean you cant use square grooves now either..unless you sue them and get an exception.. cant anchor, unless its to your forearm, etc.... so you just never know

like this

 

What happens if two players disagree about whether one has anchored or there is uncertainty about whether the Rule has been breached?

As with many other Rules, the determination of whether Rule 14-1b has been breached must be made in light of all of the available facts. As the Rule only prohibits intentional anchoring, the critical question is whether, in making a stroke, the player purposely anchored the club, either directly or by use of an anchor point, or whether any contact with the body was unintentional

 

Exactly ! We now have to look into a players soul to determine a rules infraction. Holy hell

[Dpavs]

It's been a stupid rule since the start and the USGA info regarding it is just another brick in the wall.

[Shilgy]

But he's an amateur, doesn't the rule change go in effect way later?

 

Negative. Rule 14-1b (the anchoring rule) was put into the books 1/1/16 and it applies to everyone, from pros all the way down, for all rounds to be played in accordance with the Rules of Golf. It's not a local rule (such as accidental ball moving on the green) and it's not a Condition of Competition (such as the groove rule).

 

I probably thought that because of the groove thing when they said amateurs could play the old clubs for x amount of years

except when the groove rule is in effect yes. But an amateur cannot go play the US Open, for instance, and use the old grooves just because they are an amateur.